Apple Pay challenger CurrentC could postpone launch into 2016

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 92
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    gregq wrote: »
    Hate to rain on the usual fanboy comments here, but CurrentC isn't going anywhere because it's all about avoiding $millions in CC fees for retailers; if they implement strong loyalty rewards, which Apple has been SLOW to encourage, then no matter how archaic the process (displaying QR codes etc) CurrentC will at a minimum live alongside ApplePay and Google Wallet. Don't underestimate the power of Walmart. 

    Not true. This is pretty much dead already. Apple is implementing loyalty and store cards pretty well in iOS 9. They didn't the first year, because it was much more important to get it working as well as possible, for them, retailers, and us. Remember that there were some problems here and there, in the beginning. That's pretty much cleared up.

    If they have implemented everything they wanted to at first, then it would have been much more complex, and retailer back ends would have needed to support it right away. This gave everyone time to get it done in their software and databases. So, this year, we'll see the features that people want, added.

    And Walmart is just Walmart. They are the biggest retailer in the world, by far. But much of what they sell is lower priced items. I would speculate that most people who have iPhones capable of using Apple Pay don't do much shopping at Walmart around the world.

    I fully expect Target, and other major retailers, to offer Apple Pay at some point. Even Walmart can't overcome that much inertia.

    And Google Wallet is out. It will be Google Pay, which is close to what Apple is doing.
  • Reply 22 of 92
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    Faster out and done okay= Google Wallet/Pay
    Slower out and done right = ApplePay
    Slower out and done wrong= CurrentC
  • Reply 23 of 92
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    MCX will hold off on launching the service until it's ready, Mooney remarked, arguing that while "faster is always better," the aim is to "do it right."

    hilarious. How can it always be better if faster - if it is not right?

    Now there is SPIN for you , what a chump!
  • Reply 24 of 92
    If I'm not mistaken, target announced they will be incorporating ApplePay in store by the end of this year. I know Best Buy is doing the same.
  • Reply 25 of 92
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Some of the really odd things about CurrentC are statements made by their newest CEO. While it's been made before, the statement that CurrentC will support credit cards sometime in the future, is the oddest.

    The entire point to CurrentC is NOT supporting credit cards. It's those transaction fees that Walmart, in particular, is so hateful of, that had them initiate this in the first place. If they feel as though they have to support credit cards, then what's the purpose, and why even bother now?

    In fact, a former CEO of Walmart, and in charge of the coalition that formed this, when asked about how he would feel if Current C failed, answered that he didn't care, as long as it seriously damaged Visa.

    That's the entire purpose to this whole thing. So supporting the card companies, in the future, leaves me scratching my head over it.
  • Reply 26 of 92
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    icoco3 wrote: »
    Walmarts issue was not allowing people who had Mastercard or Visa Debit use them as credit which is a violation of the Mastercard and Visa policies

    I don't think I understand what you're saying, if one has a debit card, it must be used as a debit card. It's not a credit card, and can't be used that way. What are you talking about?
  • Reply 27 of 92
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    I'm doubtful it will ever launch as designed. By 2016 how many of their "partners" will still be under contract? I'd say by the end of next year at least 80% of their "partners" will be accepting Apple Pay (and Andorid Pay).



    ^THIS^! And in addition, even the new chip and pin cards, which will start rolling out in a few months come fall, will be more secure than this piece of crap. It's a wrap for CurrentC

  • Reply 28 of 92
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    melgross wrote: »
    And Walmart is just Walmart. They are the biggest retailer in the world, by far. But much of what they sell is lower priced items. I would speculate that most people who have iPhones capable of using Apple Pay don't do much shopping at Walmart around the world.

    I can only speak of those I know, but I think everyone I know with an iPhones shop at Walmart. Those that don't shop at Walmart would only be doing so to "support local small businesses," not because their products are beneath their socio-economic level.

    I predict that Walmart will support Apple Pay eventually, even if they don't support using it with MC or Visa. The longer hold out may be Costco since their clientelle may be using a corporate account so they will see less of a need for NFC-based payments all together.
    I fully expect Target, and other major retailers, to offer Apple Pay at some point.

    They already do on their iOS app so it's not just about saving money from multinational banking fees.
    And Google Wallet is out. It will be Google Pay, which is close to what Apple is doing.

    For clarity sake, it's technically called Android Pay, but the back is the same as Apple Pay. Apple paved the way and now Google (and sure others) will pile on what the banks have now created to support Apple Pay. This is a good thing and I don't expect Apple to cry foul on this since it's important that all devices get protected so we can stop carrying physical cards with our actual account numbers and names on them.
  • Reply 29 of 92
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    As [@]NormM[/@] points out, Apple Pay accepts store cards and loyalty cards. I guess you mean that CurrentC could survive and live on as an option for Apple Pay (and Android Pay et al.) users , but that still goes against the stonewalling MCX put up to block Apple Pay by getting most "partners" to disable NFC on their terminals even thought it had been working fine for Google Wallet before that. CurrentC may live on, but it will not be against Apple Pay.

    Since they have that time period after which they can turn their NFC on, and accept Apple Pay, I don't see it as being a problem. We need to think of things in the long term. A few months one way or the other won't affect that. So it doesn't bother me.

    Some companies will hold out longer than others because they don't want to support Apple Pay, and that's fine. It's their business. But it's also possible that businesses signed up with Current C at different times, and so they are reaching that end time at different times, which is why we're seeing them accept Apple Pay at different times.

    I'm more interested in what will be happening several years from now.

    And in that, there's a report that Apple users are using Apple Pay less often than before. Maybe the shine has worn off for people.
  • Reply 30 of 92
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,160member

    I can't wait for this to release. CurrentC's system will blow Apple Pay away.

     

    Linked to your checking account? Check

     

    Stores receipts of your purchases in the cloud? Check

     

    Complex security of QR Codes? Check

     

    Can't load credit cards or store cards? Check

     

    Merchants can track what you purchase? Check

     

    How can Apple compete with this? /s

  • Reply 31 of 92
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gregq View Post

     

    Hate to rain on the usual fanboy comments here, but CurrentC isn't going anywhere because it's all about avoiding $millions in CC fees for retailers; if they implement strong loyalty rewards, which Apple has been SLOW to encourage, then no matter how archaic the process (displaying QR codes etc) CurrentC will at a minimum live alongside ApplePay and Google Wallet. Don't underestimate the power of Walmart. 




    The thing that you may be forgetting is that Walmart will also have to support chip and pin cards....unless of course they want to be held liable for any fraudulent EMV transactions. Chip and pin will still be a lot more secure than CurrentC, and everybody will have an EMV card. I assume a lot more people would just use their card before they use CurrentC. The benefit of Apple Pay is that it's faster than EMV. I still don't see CurrentC getting any traction.

  • Reply 32 of 92
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post





    I don't think I understand what you're saying, if one has a debit card, it must be used as a debit card. It's not a credit card, and can't be used that way. What are you talking about?



    icoco3 is talking about using a debit check card, which can be processed as either a debit or credit transaction. Walmart did not want to process these cards as credit as the transaction fee is larger for processing over the credit card gateways vs ATM/debit.

     

    -PopinFRESH

  • Reply 33 of 92
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,160member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     



    The thing that you may be forgetting is that Walmart will also have to support chip and pin cards....unless of course they want to be held liable for any fraudulent EMV transactions. Chip and pin will still be a lot more secure than CurrentC, and everybody will have an EMV card. I assume a lot more people would just use their card before they use CurrentC. The benefit of Apple Pay is that it's faster than EMV. I still don't see CurrentC getting any traction.


    Walmart already supports chip cards. All the ones around me have the new chip terminals. 

  • Reply 34 of 92
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    I can only speak of those I know, but I think everyone I know with an iPhones shop at Walmart. Those that don't shop at Walmart would only be doing so to "support local small businesses," not because their products are beneath their socio-economic level.

    I predict that Walmart will support Apple Pay eventually, even if they don't support using it with MC or Visa. The longer hold out may be Costco since their clientelle may be using a corporate account so they will see less of a need for NFC-based payments all together.
    They already do on their iOS app so it's not just about saving money from multinational banking fees.
    For clarity sake, it's technically called Android Pay, but the back is the same as Apple Pay. Apple paved the way and now Google (and sure others) will pile on what the banks have now created to support Apple Pay. This is a good thing and I don't expect Apple to cry foul on this since it's important that all devices get protected so we can stop carrying physical cards with our actual account numbers and names on them.

    Well, Walmart isn't in lots of areas in the country. Large cities often have no Walmart. They tried to come here in NYC, but were rebuffed. I suppose if you live in the suburbs, it's different.

    I don't know if Walmart will be able to "support it" if they don't allow those cards. I'm not entirely familiar with the way Apple Pay works, but it's possible that a retailrd must support any card that the user has. I haven't been to enough different stores yet to find one that doesn't support AMEX, which is what I use for almost everything. I'm just guessing here.

    Most people I know using Costco don't have corporate accounts.

    What do they support with their iOS apps? Apple Pay, or credit cards, or money that been placed in the app, aka the way my Starbucks app has worked?

    I can never temember whether it's called Android Pay, or Google Pay. I was first going to write Android Pay, but changed my mind.
  • Reply 35 of 92
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     



    The thing that you may be forgetting is that Walmart will also have to support chip and pin cards....unless of course they want to be held liable for any fraudulent EMV transactions. Chip and pin will still be a lot more secure than CurrentC,


    When there is some fraud with Visa/MC, the bank almost always reimburses the customer and in many cases the bank detects the fraud first and doesn't even tell you when, where, or how much. I have read the CurrentC terms and conditions but it leaves me wondering what their policy will be. With a credit card you are an actual customer of the bank but with CurrentC they are not a bank. They specifically state that the transactions are strictly between you and the merchant.

     

    http://currentc.com/50D6A97C-4B72-44D6-9021-BE0884ED2F8D/terms-and-conditions/ ;

  • Reply 36 of 92

    Over the past couple of weeks when checking out at Walmart, I noticed that regardless of choosing the "debit" option at self checkout, as soon as I swiped my card the transaction would complete without me entering my pin. Essentially it would still run it as credit. A tad bit frustrated, 2 days ago I asked the clerk why it was still running my debit/credit card as credit even though I chose debit. Her answer to me was that "some banks don't let you run it as debit if the transaction is under $50." I said "no way, I do it all the time, and I used to do it here all the time as well." She repeated, "It's the banks.." I repeated, "it's not the banks, because if it were then that would be the case at every store I do business at, and it's not." Then I asked her "So at Walmart you can't use debit unless you spend $50 or more?" and she said "Yes." I said "Okay, then it's Walmart! Not the banks!" 

     

    As I thought about this while was walking out, it immediately dawned on me that this may be Walmart's way of muscling people into using CurrentC. I would imagine that at least 60% of daily transactions are in the category of less than $50. If those people want to just have their account debited rather than run as credit, then they will have to use CurrentC. I'd bet money on them presenting it that way IF CurrentC ever gets off the ground..which I doubt it ever will.

  • Reply 37 of 92
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ds92jz View Post

     

    Do you think they've reached a point where they HAVE to launch the service because of how much has already been invested?




    No.  They need to cut their losses and move on.

     

    My guess is that they would face lawsuits from members who were cajoled into exclusivity agreements and had to pass up ApplePay and GoogleWallet.

     

    My other guess is that they might be nursing it along hoping someone acquires them.  There's a sucker born every minute.

  • Reply 38 of 92
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     

    Over the past couple of weeks when checking out at Walmart, I noticed that regardless of choosing the "debit" option at self checkout, as soon as I swiped my card the transaction would complete without me entering my pin. Essentially it would still run it as credit. A tad bit frustrated, 2 days ago I asked the clerk why it was still running my debit/credit card as credit even though I chose debit. Her answer to me was that "some banks don't let you run it as debit if the transaction is under $50." I said "no way, I do it all the time, and I used to do it here all the time as well." She repeated, "It's the banks.." I repeated, "it's not the banks, because if it were then that would be the case at every store I do business at, and it's not." Then I asked her "So at Walmart you can't use debit unless you spend $50 or more?" and she said "Yes." I said "Okay, then it's Walmart! Not the banks!" 

     

    As I thought about this while was walking out, it immediately dawned on me that this may be Walmart's way of muscling people into using CurrentC. I would imagine that at least 60% of daily transactions are in the category of less than $50. If those people want to just have their account debited rather than run as credit, then they will have to use CurrentC. I'd bet money on them presenting it that way IF CurrentC ever gets off the ground..which I doubt it ever will.




    I'm pretty sure they had no idea what they were talking about and were confused with the signature / PIN requirement limit being $50. Your transactions were more than likely still processed as debit if you selected debit, however, if the transaction is less than $50 USD for a card present magnetic or contactless transaction they don't need to capture a signature or PIN. You can check with your bank that the debit card is drawn on and ask them for the transaction details for those transactions and you will probably find they were actually debit transactions.

     

    "For Debit MasterCard Card Programs, the following requirements apply:


    1. For all Transactions identified with a TCC of C, P, T, U, or Z, the Transaction category code (TCC) limit may be set below the Corporation’s default value.


    2. For all Card-not-present Transactions, the TCC limit may be set below the Corporation’s default value.


    3. For Card-present Transactions identified with a TCC of A, F, H, O, R, or X and effected with a Debit MasterCard Card (standard), the TCC limit may be set below the Corporation’s default value to an amount no less than USD 50.


    4. For Card-present Transactions identified with a TCC of A, F, H, O, R, or X and effected with a Debit MasterCard Card (enhanced), the TCC limit may be set below the Corporation’s default value to an amount no less than USD 100.


    5. For Card-present Transactions identified with a TCC of A, C, F, H, O, R, or X and effected with a Debit MasterCard BusinessCard Card or Debit MasterCard Professional Card, the TCC limit may be set below the Corporation’s default value to an amount no less than USD 400.


    6. For Debit MasterCard Card (standard) Programs, the accumulative limits may be set below the Corporation’s default values as follows."




    ?-PopinFRESH

  • Reply 39 of 92
    Dead on arrival (some time in 2017)
  • Reply 40 of 92
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    melgross wrote: »
    I'm more interested in what will be happening several years from now.

    I predict the common phrase will go from, "Oh, look! [Retailer] supports Apple Pay," to "What do you mean [retailer] doesn't support Apple Pay?!"
    And in that, there's a report that Apple users are using Apple Pay less often than before. Maybe the shine has worn off for people.

    1) I saw that report but there was no info on how the data was collected. Maybe it's accurate but the way it was presented (as well as anecdotally) I would doubt it. I use it more each month, and that will increase again as I shift from CVS (the pharmacy I like) to Rite Aid when the support Apple Pay to help move this juggernaut forward ever-so-slightly faster.

    2) There is no "shine" to wear off. It's secure -AND- convenient. For comparison, the Apple Watch's watch-to- watch Sketch, Tap, Emoji, and Heartbeat are gimmicky features that users seem to stop using after the newness wears off.
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