Interesting on how now OS X copied Windows with Snap Assist and Side by Side Applications in iOS. Or things where MS is ahead of Apple like the great stylus the Surface have for note taking and drawing compared to the, like you mentioned, clunky and stupid stylus options for the iPad.
IMO, what MS is doing with Surface, Office 2016 and their cloud services is ahead and "more delightful" compared to what Apple offers. The only thing I see Apple is doing better is in the iPhone. Let's how it compares to Windows 10 for phone (or whatever it's called).
Translation;
Microsoft is tracking you, even though you've asked them not to, so let's try to divert the conversation elsewhere.
Much as I can see, there's still "Never Check for Updates" option available.
For corporate... once part of domain, you can always control behavior - updates included - through GP. All our customers on Win 7 and 8.1 are updating from local updates cache, for example, which is controlled by Kaseya monitoring and management software. This will continue with W10. Before Kaseya, we were using Microsoft's own WSUS service... same thing, pretty much. Instead of every machine reaching individually for updates over the Internet, they all get downloaded once to update server and distributed localy over the lan.
yes, and when you run it you will discover that OS X is even more chatty than Windows.
everytime your mac starts up, it's continually talking to a wide range of apple and 3rd party domain names that I have blocked without ill effect.
by all means, little snitch.
The issue isn't whether OS X communicates with Apple, it's whether it does so even if you've chosen privacy settings that are suppose to end such traffic out of your system.
"Similar to some degree" can be said about pretty much everything, if not everything. The fact remains MS uses Windows desktop for their failing Surface division and that MS had options for styluses long before MS ever saw Apple reveal what was going to be the first successful tablet to hit the market.
Personally, I have been hoping for Apple to add a digitizer, framework and APIs to iOS for at least the iPad since it arrived, but that stuff takes work, but I'm sure that if and when Apple does offer that feature you'll be here to say how they are stealing from MS and then quote an out of context quote from Jobs about ever needing a stylus means you're doing it wrong to mock Apple.
If you noticed, I used the word "Same" not "Similar". Windows 10 in the desktop is the "Same" Windows 10 in the Surface. And Windows 10 can be used in a tablet or desktop with Continuum, where it adjusts automatically if you are using touch or a keyboard + mouse. BTW, why you call the Surface division a failure when it's making close to a billion per quarter and growing?
I have been waiting for a proper stylus in the iPad since the first gen, while at the same time watching the Surface Pro getting better every year. Right now I'm waiting for the SP4 to replace my MBA. Let's see how it goes.
And I can't read Steve Job's mind regarding the iPad and the stylus. But I remember people mocking the Surface Pro, including Tim Cook (remember refrigerator + toaster). Looks like MS was right all this time.
If you noticed, I used the word "Same" not "Similar".
No, I quoted you correctly. You wrote "similar to a some degree."
Looks like MS was right all this time.
LOL What?! Did Apple drop iOS for iPad, and instead shoehorn Mac OS X into the iPad? No! Then MS isn't "right" and Apple isn't following MS' lead.
PS: Personally, I appreciate MS trying find their own niche and it's fine there have been market failures because they are still highly profitable in other areas so they have the money — and with that comes time — to figure out how real innovation works.
Microsoft is tracking you, even though you've asked them not to, so let's try to divert the conversation elsewhere.
Since you said so, I read the article and found some lines from the Ars article interesting,
"The traffic could be innocuous, but the inclusion of a machine ID gives it a suspicious appearance."
"But the flip side of this is that disabling these services for those who don't want to use them should really disable them. And it's not at all clear that Windows 10 is doing that right now."
So it looks there is some after enabling all privacy settings, there still some activity, that is not related to query or search data. But you speculate that MS is tracking users, while the Ars article never mentioned it and, for now, there is no proof of tracking. Let's see how this thing develops in the next days.
No, I quoted you correctly. You wrote "similar to a some degree."
LOL What?! Did Apple drop iOS for iPad, and instead shoehorn Mac OS X into the iPad? No! Then MS isn't "right" and Apple isn't following MS' lead.
PS: Personally, I appreciate MS trying find their own niche and it's fine that they have been market failures because they are still highly profitable in other areas so they have the money — and with that comes time — to figure out how real innovation works.
?
I used to term "Similar" when comparing the iPad and the Surface, while I used the term "same" when I was talking about Windows 10 being the "same" OS on a desktop/notebook or a Surface.
Could it be that Apple didn't "shoehorn" OS X in the iPad because they didn't develop it for that purpose? That's completely different from MS, where they developed Windows 10 to be an OS for desktop or tablets That doesn't make them right or wrong. They just did something different from Apple, and from your POV, that's wrong because Apple isn't doing it.
And again, Surface is close to a billion per quarter, so they aren't failures. I have tried them and are great devices with many benefits over my MBA and iPad, like the screen quality and stylus.
?
I used to term "Similar" when comparing the iPad and the Surface,
No shit! Hence my reply.
while I used the term "same" when I was talking about Windows 10 being the "same" OS on a desktop/notebook or a Surface.
Again, no shit! Again, hence my issue with MS and my use of shoehorning a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Don't believe me? Tell me how one would rotate the orientation of the original Surface? If it's a bonafide tablet OS then it should rotate automatically, and in no way require the user to use any UI designed for a mouse pointer to navigate into Control Panel to change the display orientation manually.
Could it be that Apple didn't "shoehorn" OS X in the iPad because they didn't develop it for that purpose?
That is correct, Apple designed Mac OS X for a desktop environment which is why they did not use it in their iPod, iPhone, iPad or Watch.
That's completely different from MS, where they developed Windows 10 to be an OS for desktop or tablets That doesn't make them right or wrong. They just did something different from Apple, and from your POV, that's wrong because Apple isn't doing it.
Yes, it is different.
It's wrong because they did their usual thing of cutting corners, quarter-assing (half-assing their half-assing), and generally only looking at the ROI before deciding by committee that it's good enough for a "me too" product instead of trying to create a truly great foundational product.
And again, Surface is close to a billion per quarter, so they aren't failures. I have tried them and are great devices with many benefits over my MBA and iPad, like the screen quality and stylus.
Now you're quoting revenue. :facepalm: Just give up if you're quoting revenue as a win for a company whose only concern is profit. They've poured billions into Surface and they've even come close to breaking even. That's a longterm problem for MS and their investors, but as I stated they have enough profit from other areas that they can do Weekend At Bernie's with their products potentially forever. With enough luck and time that division may recoup all their loses, but I doubt it if they don't decide to make some fundamental changes.
If you noticed your post, your argument about the term "similar" was in the same line about Windows and Surface, so I think you were referring to the OS.
Quote:
Again, no shit! Again, hence my issue with MS and my use of shoehorning a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Don't believe me? Tell me how one would rotate the orientation of the original Surface? If it's a bonafide tablet OS then it should rotate automatically, and in no way require the user to use any UI designed for a mouse pointer to navigate into Control Panel to change the display orientation manually.
I don't know why do you want to refer to the original Surface when it doesn't exist and now there is a Surface Pro 3 with Windows 10, which fixed many of the shortcomings of the original device. BTW, do you consider the iPad a crappy device since it doesn't do side by side applications or is limited to a single user? Because the original Surface you mention was already capable of those and many other things iOS 8, and even iOS 9 still can't do.
Quote:
Yes, it is different.
It's wrong because they did their usual thing of cutting corners, quarter-assing (half-assing their half-assing), and generally only looking at the ROI before deciding by committee that it's good enough for a "me too" product instead of trying to create a truly great foundational product.
Are you referring to the iPad? Because based on the little time I have used a Surface Pro 3, it's a great product, far more capable than an iPad.
Quote:
Now you're quoting revenue. :facepalm: Just give up if you're quoting revenue as a win for a company whose only concern is profit. They've poured billions into Surface and they've even come close to breaking even. That's a longterm problem for MS and their investors, but as I stated they have enough profit from other areas that they can do Weekend At Bernie's with their products potentially forever. With enough luck and time that division may recoup all their loses, but I doubt it if they don't decide to make some fundamental changes.
I posted revenue, because that's what MS published in their last financial reports. But since you mentioned that they are failing, maybe you can post the profit, since I didn't find it.
And yes, MS have poured billions, and based on the kind of device the Surface Pro 3 is, it's was well invested. If Apple had stopped developing the first MBA, that was a very poor device, we wouldn't have the MBA we have today (btw, for some reason looks like Apple have abandon it, since it hasn't receive a major change in years). And that's what happened with the SP3, they learned from the mistakes in the first two releases and had a great product in the SP3. But since you are so worried about money, you may think MS should do as Apple did with iWorks, give it for free and assign very few resources to it with not development at all. At least MS is doing the right thing.
Anyhow, MS keeps developing the Surface and it's one of the best devices I have ever tried, even better than many Apple devices. Based in the quality and sales numbers, they will be doing good. BTW, the new CEO already is working in the fundamental changes you mentioned.
Every OS and app calls home by default. In Windows 10, Windows updates are automatic and mandatory. The only way to stop it is not be connected to the internet, which is impossible for most people, because that is what they do with their computer. I wonder how this works for secure installations like the government, military and banks.
"Houston we have lift off. Oh wait, scratch that. Windows is updating."
I'll add even MS Office likes to call home, frequently. I recently spent 2 weeks in China and from about day 3 onward I was constantly reminded that my Office 365 subscription could not be verified. Thankfully I was still able to use it but the constant nagging from the software was irritating. I always had my fingers crossed the next morning that Office would still be working.
So like having ANY money (financial info) is something you shouldn't have?! People want their financial information shared less than nude pictures of themselves!
I've heard a rumor today that the licensing agreement for Windows 10 including sharing your contact information with Microsoft for marketing purposes.
Ah, the infamous EULA. How big is it now?
In some parts of the world it is not worth the paper it would be printed on (if you could find enough dead trees to print it that is).
As has been said here and in many other forums, even with all the privacy settings turned off it still phones home pretty well all the time.
There are lists of URL's that it uses posted on many sites. Update your host file and you are good to go... for the time being.
The model of user that MS is trying to attract with this release are frnakly the Tech Illiterate. Their ads showing 'shiny-shiny' everything connected seem to re-inforce that. For anyone who is at least half tech literate, the direction they are going is more and more like Orwell's Big Brother. For me this is an evolutionary dead end (even if the Three Letter Agencies are drooling over all that lovely data heading their way).
Enough with the spying on me ok! I do not want it. I won't use it while it phones home every keystroke (by default).
Unlike Apple, Microsoft is actually thinking about the children!
They will be assimilated at a very early age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret
Looks like it is a good thing I've held off installing Win10.
I was about the pull the trigger on Win10, but I held off and waited for the reviews and comments. Glad I did. I'll be sticking with Win7 (most of my stuff is on Mac anyway).
I was preparing to install Windows 10 on a virtual machine, for testing. My parents' business is on Windows 7 because that's all their general ledger will run on, and my testing was to determine if they should or should not upgrade; but as they run an accounting firm, I now have serious misgivings.
I've heard a rumor today that the licensing agreement for Windows 10 including sharing your contact information with Microsoft for marketing purposes.
The more I read about Win10, the more I'm amazed at the direction MS is going in. A lot of the data mining is to "learn about you" (Cortana, Edge browser), but I suspect the real reason is to sell/share your info (after Cortana has interrogated you completely), as you pointed out.
Comments
Two words: Little Snitch.
yes, and when you run it you will discover that OS X is even more chatty than Windows.
everytime your mac starts up, it's continually talking to a wide range of apple and 3rd party domain names that I have blocked without ill effect.
by all means, little snitch.
Translation;
Microsoft is tracking you, even though you've asked them not to, so let's try to divert the conversation elsewhere.
For corporate... once part of domain, you can always control behavior - updates included - through GP. All our customers on Win 7 and 8.1 are updating from local updates cache, for example, which is controlled by Kaseya monitoring and management software. This will continue with W10. Before Kaseya, we were using Microsoft's own WSUS service... same thing, pretty much. Instead of every machine reaching individually for updates over the Internet, they all get downloaded once to update server and distributed localy over the lan.
The issue isn't whether OS X communicates with Apple, it's whether it does so even if you've chosen privacy settings that are suppose to end such traffic out of your system.
"Similar to some degree" can be said about pretty much everything, if not everything. The fact remains MS uses Windows desktop for their failing Surface division and that MS had options for styluses long before MS ever saw Apple reveal what was going to be the first successful tablet to hit the market.
Personally, I have been hoping for Apple to add a digitizer, framework and APIs to iOS for at least the iPad since it arrived, but that stuff takes work, but I'm sure that if and when Apple does offer that feature you'll be here to say how they are stealing from MS and then quote an out of context quote from Jobs about ever needing a stylus means you're doing it wrong to mock Apple.
If you noticed, I used the word "Same" not "Similar". Windows 10 in the desktop is the "Same" Windows 10 in the Surface. And Windows 10 can be used in a tablet or desktop with Continuum, where it adjusts automatically if you are using touch or a keyboard + mouse. BTW, why you call the Surface division a failure when it's making close to a billion per quarter and growing?
I have been waiting for a proper stylus in the iPad since the first gen, while at the same time watching the Surface Pro getting better every year. Right now I'm waiting for the SP4 to replace my MBA. Let's see how it goes.
And I can't read Steve Job's mind regarding the iPad and the stylus. But I remember people mocking the Surface Pro, including Tim Cook (remember refrigerator + toaster). Looks like MS was right all this time.
-removed for inaccuracy-
No, I quoted you correctly. You wrote "similar to a some degree."
LOL What?! Did Apple drop iOS for iPad, and instead shoehorn Mac OS X into the iPad? No! Then MS isn't "right" and Apple isn't following MS' lead.
PS: Personally, I appreciate MS trying find their own niche and it's fine there have been market failures because they are still highly profitable in other areas so they have the money — and with that comes time — to figure out how real innovation works.
Translation;
Microsoft is tracking you, even though you've asked them not to, so let's try to divert the conversation elsewhere.
Since you said so, I read the article and found some lines from the Ars article interesting,
"The traffic could be innocuous, but the inclusion of a machine ID gives it a suspicious appearance."
"But the flip side of this is that disabling these services for those who don't want to use them should really disable them. And it's not at all clear that Windows 10 is doing that right now."
So it looks there is some after enabling all privacy settings, there still some activity, that is not related to query or search data. But you speculate that MS is tracking users, while the Ars article never mentioned it and, for now, there is no proof of tracking. Let's see how this thing develops in the next days.
No, I quoted you correctly. You wrote "similar to a some degree."
LOL What?! Did Apple drop iOS for iPad, and instead shoehorn Mac OS X into the iPad? No! Then MS isn't "right" and Apple isn't following MS' lead.
PS: Personally, I appreciate MS trying find their own niche and it's fine that they have been market failures because they are still highly profitable in other areas so they have the money — and with that comes time — to figure out how real innovation works.
?
I used to term "Similar" when comparing the iPad and the Surface, while I used the term "same" when I was talking about Windows 10 being the "same" OS on a desktop/notebook or a Surface.
Could it be that Apple didn't "shoehorn" OS X in the iPad because they didn't develop it for that purpose? That's completely different from MS, where they developed Windows 10 to be an OS for desktop or tablets That doesn't make them right or wrong. They just did something different from Apple, and from your POV, that's wrong because Apple isn't doing it.
And again, Surface is close to a billion per quarter, so they aren't failures. I have tried them and are great devices with many benefits over my MBA and iPad, like the screen quality and stylus.
No shit! Hence my reply.
Again, no shit! Again, hence my issue with MS and my use of shoehorning a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Don't believe me? Tell me how one would rotate the orientation of the original Surface? If it's a bonafide tablet OS then it should rotate automatically, and in no way require the user to use any UI designed for a mouse pointer to navigate into Control Panel to change the display orientation manually.
That is correct, Apple designed Mac OS X for a desktop environment which is why they did not use it in their iPod, iPhone, iPad or Watch.
Yes, it is different.
It's wrong because they did their usual thing of cutting corners, quarter-assing (half-assing their half-assing), and generally only looking at the ROI before deciding by committee that it's good enough for a "me too" product instead of trying to create a truly great foundational product.
Now you're quoting revenue. :facepalm: Just give up if you're quoting revenue as a win for a company whose only concern is profit. They've poured billions into Surface and they've even come close to breaking even. That's a longterm problem for MS and their investors, but as I stated they have enough profit from other areas that they can do Weekend At Bernie's with their products potentially forever. With enough luck and time that division may recoup all their loses, but I doubt it if they don't decide to make some fundamental changes.
If you noticed your post, your argument about the term "similar" was in the same line about Windows and Surface, so I think you were referring to the OS.
I don't know why do you want to refer to the original Surface when it doesn't exist and now there is a Surface Pro 3 with Windows 10, which fixed many of the shortcomings of the original device. BTW, do you consider the iPad a crappy device since it doesn't do side by side applications or is limited to a single user? Because the original Surface you mention was already capable of those and many other things iOS 8, and even iOS 9 still can't do.
It's wrong because they did their usual thing of cutting corners, quarter-assing (half-assing their half-assing), and generally only looking at the ROI before deciding by committee that it's good enough for a "me too" product instead of trying to create a truly great foundational product.
Are you referring to the iPad? Because based on the little time I have used a Surface Pro 3, it's a great product, far more capable than an iPad.
I posted revenue, because that's what MS published in their last financial reports. But since you mentioned that they are failing, maybe you can post the profit, since I didn't find it.
And yes, MS have poured billions, and based on the kind of device the Surface Pro 3 is, it's was well invested. If Apple had stopped developing the first MBA, that was a very poor device, we wouldn't have the MBA we have today (btw, for some reason looks like Apple have abandon it, since it hasn't receive a major change in years). And that's what happened with the SP3, they learned from the mistakes in the first two releases and had a great product in the SP3. But since you are so worried about money, you may think MS should do as Apple did with iWorks, give it for free and assign very few resources to it with not development at all. At least MS is doing the right thing.
Anyhow, MS keeps developing the Surface and it's one of the best devices I have ever tried, even better than many Apple devices. Based in the quality and sales numbers, they will be doing good. BTW, the new CEO already is working in the fundamental changes you mentioned.
Every OS and app calls home by default. In Windows 10, Windows updates are automatic and mandatory. The only way to stop it is not be connected to the internet, which is impossible for most people, because that is what they do with their computer. I wonder how this works for secure installations like the government, military and banks.
"Houston we have lift off. Oh wait, scratch that. Windows is updating."
I'll add even MS Office likes to call home, frequently. I recently spent 2 weeks in China and from about day 3 onward I was constantly reminded that my Office 365 subscription could not be verified. Thankfully I was still able to use it but the constant nagging from the software was irritating. I always had my fingers crossed the next morning that Office would still be working.
What would Eric Schmidt say?
Problem: solved. /s
So like having ANY money (financial info) is something you shouldn't have?! People want their financial information shared less than nude pictures of themselves!
I wonder if MS is headed down the path of deliberate Google-ifcation (for personal data mining).
That wouldn't sit well with corporate accounts.
I've heard a rumor today that the licensing agreement for Windows 10 including sharing your contact information with Microsoft for marketing purposes.
I've heard a rumor today that the licensing agreement for Windows 10 including sharing your contact information with Microsoft for marketing purposes.
Ah, the infamous EULA. How big is it now?
In some parts of the world it is not worth the paper it would be printed on (if you could find enough dead trees to print it that is).
As has been said here and in many other forums, even with all the privacy settings turned off it still phones home pretty well all the time.
There are lists of URL's that it uses posted on many sites. Update your host file and you are good to go... for the time being.
The model of user that MS is trying to attract with this release are frnakly the Tech Illiterate. Their ads showing 'shiny-shiny' everything connected seem to re-inforce that. For anyone who is at least half tech literate, the direction they are going is more and more like Orwell's Big Brother. For me this is an evolutionary dead end (even if the Three Letter Agencies are drooling over all that lovely data heading their way).
Enough with the spying on me ok! I do not want it. I won't use it while it phones home every keystroke (by default).
Unlike Apple, Microsoft is actually thinking about the children!
Looks like it is a good thing I've held off installing Win10.
Unlike Apple, Microsoft is actually thinking about the children!
They will be assimilated at a very early age.
Looks like it is a good thing I've held off installing Win10.
I was about the pull the trigger on Win10, but I held off and waited for the reviews and comments. Glad I did. I'll be sticking with Win7 (most of my stuff is on Mac anyway).
I was preparing to install Windows 10 on a virtual machine, for testing. My parents' business is on Windows 7 because that's all their general ledger will run on, and my testing was to determine if they should or should not upgrade; but as they run an accounting firm, I now have serious misgivings.
I've heard a rumor today that the licensing agreement for Windows 10 including sharing your contact information with Microsoft for marketing purposes.
The more I read about Win10, the more I'm amazed at the direction MS is going in. A lot of the data mining is to "learn about you" (Cortana, Edge browser), but I suspect the real reason is to sell/share your info (after Cortana has interrogated you completely), as you pointed out.