Who the hell are we that Apple has to justify their actions to us? Most of the hires are probably in retail, so we're not going to know how well they're doing. How are we ever going to know if a minority on the R&D dept came up with a great idea. Those people aren't paraded on stage, only the heads of the dept are.
Isn't this hiring action specifically related to programming? If not, what possible lack of diversity could there be in Apple's retail hiring? I've seen a wide variety of people at Apple Store retail (just speaking from my own experience) and I find it beyond belief that Apple has been uneven in their retail hiring.
Who the hell are we that Apple has to justify their actions to us? Most of the hires are probably in retail, so we're not going to know how well they're doing. How are we ever going to know if a minority on the R
Isn't this hiring action specifically related to programming? If not, what possible lack of diversity could there be in Apple's retail hiring? I've seen a wide variety of people at Apple Store retail (just speaking from my own experience) and I find it beyond belief that Apple has been uneven in their retail hiring.
This is not that thread. Look at the numbers of hires. They can't be all for programming.
Employees of fast food restaurants work hard and deserve at least minimum wage.
Why. Their entire occupation can be automated. The job does not need to exist. Better to hire three specialized, educated humans (three shifts) to oversee the workings of a completely automated fast food machine building than to hire dozens of humans who spit in food, screw up orders, etc. The demand for work of greater intelligence increases, moving the human race forward.
Do you want to eat at a restaurant where the workers sleep in the brushes?
I’d rather eat at one where the workers don’t sleep, because they don’t need to, because they’re machines. I’ll gladly pay extra for the flair of human-created food at a proper restaurant, but that’s not what fast food intends to be.
A higher minimum wage may actually result in a lower rent expense for the restaurant as the cost cutting pressure shifts.
Until the people on higher wages demand fewer hours so that they can stay on welfare, and then the manager just fires them all and replaces them with a robot.
The more companies like Apple go out of their way to implement "diversity" programs, the more I suspect any given minority group favored by those diversity programs will somehow be less competent than the norm...
They didn't earn it by themselves, they were given an artificial boost based on their color, and it's hard to respect someone like that compared to someone that earned their way on merit.
This is such a pile of horseshit. Apple doesn't hand out jobs to bums, every beneficiary of a scholarship or an assisted programme has to overcome huge barriers and qualifications. The idea that "they didn't earn it" is nonsense when the system is totally skewed towards the white, resource rich, and privileged, who have supposed "merit".
And again, "competence" takes many forms. Diversity (without the patronising parentheses) itself may form a part of competence if it fulfils the corporations overall aims.
This is such a pile of horseshit. Apple doesn't hand out jobs to bums, every beneficiary of a scholarship or an assisted programme has to overcome huge barriers and qualifications. The idea that "they didn't earn it" is nonsense when the system is totally skewed towards the white, resource rich, and privileged, who have supposed "merit".
And again, "competence" takes many forms. Diversity (without the patronising parentheses) itself may form a part of competence if it fulfils the corporations overall aims.
How do you know there are "huge barriers"? What are the jobs and what are the barriers? List them.
The competitive nature of capitalism put too much downward pressure on wages so we need rules to counter that. Employees of fast food restaurants work hard and deserve at least minimum wage. Workers need food and shelter too. Do you want to eat at a restaurant where the workers sleep in the brushes? Restaurants trying to compete are always looking to cut expenses. The minimum wage keeps a level playing field with regard to labor expense. A higher minimum wage may actually result in a lower rent expense for the restaurant as the cost cutting pressure shifts.
While you don't want people suffering perhaps minimum wage laws are not the way to deal with poverty. Many of these jobs go to young people and others with no experience. Raise the wages for these jobs and there will be fewer openings for youth and others who need an in into the working force. For having a high minimum you are making it harder for people with little experience to get a foot in the door. In any case, I do not think you really want to encourage people to get comfortable in minimum wage jobs. You really want to nudge them to acquire a skill that will be needed.
As far as Apple goes I still feel they should tone it down when it comes to politically motivated actions. They are a company and not a charity. This does not imply that company policies should not be progressive. It does imply they should stop broadcasting it from the highest mountain.
Some tech companies are riding high at the moment and feel they can do pretty well anything with impunity. Very, very risky. In particular perhaps Apple should go back to doing what it does best and that isn't producing several revisions of the same product with little substantive differences. The hiring issue is I suspect quite silly in a company of this nature. Thankfully Apple's products are still used primarily by consumers in non-critical situations. You wouldn't want this type of thinking applied to the selection of a heart surgeon or NASA engineer.
When I attended under and graduate level schools, there was no prohibiition or dfisdcouragement as to what subject any male or female studied. A lot of fellow women students went into business and pre-law (later Law School). Computer science was then a very formal and infant subject that came under the mathematics department. The teaching and technology was stiffleing to say the least, few if any people, went into the discipline, taking statistics or math instead. We leap forward to the late 1970s and early 1980s and the dawn of a new computer age is before us- it is now becoming dominated not by the classical computer science major, but the nerd hobbyists who built thier own hardware and learned the intricacies of computer languages and coding better than that which could be obtained in any CS program. It is these fringe element nerds, mostly males, who made Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley. All genders and ethnic people are invited to learn and succeed in this field, quotas were never needed nor are these now needed. If Silicon Valley IT becomes the same ho-hum business model that is now rampant across America, it is headed downhill and another venue maybe in India or China will inherit the technological keys.
Well the same situation facing Silicon Valley has already happened across the majority of large US firms and having experience working in one the Fortune 500, I can attest that a lot of time and overhead is consumed by a lot of management and HR (Human Resources) covering their backs from every type of discrimination lawsuit.
This was not true of the Yahoo CEO (formerly a key Google founding employee) - Ms Mayer! Also, women like men are free to initiate their own start-up firms, there is no barrier to entry, except taking a huge risk and spending 80+ hours a week getting the right product to market and even then, there is no guarantee for success. Most people (men & women) take the safer route of getting a defined paycheck and defned benefits.
While you don't want people suffering perhaps minimum wage laws are not the way to deal with poverty. Many of these jobs go to young people and others with no experience. Raise the wages for these jobs and there will be fewer openings for youth and others who need an in into the working force. For having a high minimum you are making it harder for people with little experience to get a foot in the door. In any case, I do not think you really want to encourage people to get comfortable in minimum wage jobs. You really want to nudge them to acquire a skill that will be needed.
As far as Apple goes I still feel they should tone it down when it comes to politically motivated actions. They are a company and not a charity. This does not imply that company policies should not be progressive. It does imply they should stop broadcasting it from the highest mountain.
Some tech companies are riding high at the moment and feel they can do pretty well anything with impunity. Very, very risky. In particular perhaps Apple should go back to doing what it does best and that isn't producing several revisions of the same product with little substantive differences. The hiring issue is I suspect quite silly in a company of this nature. Thankfully Apple's products are still used primarily by consumers in non-critical situations. You wouldn't want this type of thinking applied to the selection of a heart surgeon or NASA engineer.
If a person is incapable of providing $15 per hour of of value to a company, then they are probably adding negative value (i.e. -$5/hour) they're essentially unemployable. As Tallest Skil astutely implied on post 71 above, their job can be performed by a robot. Their well being is a social issue. (and they can get a job at my local post office)
PC-types however do think this way on every issue. OBTW- when was the last time females were drafted or had to register for the Draft in the USA? Never!
Well the same situation facing Silicon Valley has already happened across the majority of large US firms and having experience working in one the Fortune 500, I can attest that a lot of time and overhead is consumed by a lot of management and HR (Human Resources) covering their backs from every type of discrimination lawsuit.
Hey, FM; are you maybe hitting Reply instead of Quote in the bottom right? Reply does absolutely nothing. I have no idea why it’s there. Quote will grab the text of the post to which you want to reply and give context to your statements. It just seems that you’re replying to specific people but we’re unable to see who it is.
You've no evidence and you continue to just make up stuff. Certainly keeps you from having to put in an effort or think.
Nah, I just don't see the point in putting in effort to show some people what is right before their eyes. Black and hispanic peoples have no barriers to entry into the professional workforce you say? Pull the other one. I know enough about you to know that there's nothing in it for me to justify putting in the time to prove such an obvious fact, since you're ideologically blind to reality.
Disagree if you like, call me names if you like, I care not.
If a person is incapable of providing $15 per hour of of value to a company, then they are probably adding negative value (i.e. -$5/hour) they're essentially unemployable. As Tallest Skil astutely implied on post 71 above, their job can be performed by a robot. Their well being is a social issue. (and they can get a job at my local post office)
Also, Interns should be paid.
Well having things automated is yet another issue. In the extreme case where almost everything was automated you would have a problem with how to distribute wealth.
As far as the $15 employees go, these might very well be interns or people with little experience in the job market. Usually interns work in jobs related to their training. Minimum wage jobs provide a way of getting money to young people, people in transition, etc ...
I am not sure what you want. This is not the law of the jungle. There are plenty of jobs for which a minimum wage is suitable. As I said, you just don't want these jobs to be permanent for most people. Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the people who best fit within the minimum wage environment. Moreover a high minimum wage just increases the underground economy.
Well having things automated is yet another issue. In the extreme case where almost everything was automated you would have a problem with how to distribute wealth.
Wealth comes from your time and the work you put into it. You “distribute” it to those who work.
Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the people who best fit within the minimum wage environment. Moreover a high minimum wage just increases the underground economy.
Exactly. In all the arguments about minimum wage, nearly everyone misses the actual point. Wage increases only increase the cost of everything else and devalue the dollar. Instead of raising minimum wage, raise the purchasing power of a single dollar! It doesn’t matter if you only make $10,000 a year if you’re able to live in comfort on $7,000! Make an individual dollar WORTH more and you won’t need to raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000.
Comments
My guess is people worry that job selection criteria get a hidden paragraph.
Who the hell are we that Apple has to justify their actions to us? Most of the hires are probably in retail, so we're not going to know how well they're doing. How are we ever going to know if a minority on the R&D dept came up with a great idea. Those people aren't paraded on stage, only the heads of the dept are.
Isn't this hiring action specifically related to programming? If not, what possible lack of diversity could there be in Apple's retail hiring? I've seen a wide variety of people at Apple Store retail (just speaking from my own experience) and I find it beyond belief that Apple has been uneven in their retail hiring.
This is not that thread. Look at the numbers of hires. They can't be all for programming.
This is not that thread. Look at the numbers of hires. They can't be all for programming.
So, it's probably for any and every position, other than executive?
Why. Their entire occupation can be automated. The job does not need to exist. Better to hire three specialized, educated humans (three shifts) to oversee the workings of a completely automated fast food machine building than to hire dozens of humans who spit in food, screw up orders, etc. The demand for work of greater intelligence increases, moving the human race forward.
I’d rather eat at one where the workers don’t sleep, because they don’t need to, because they’re machines. I’ll gladly pay extra for the flair of human-created food at a proper restaurant, but that’s not what fast food intends to be.
Until the people on higher wages demand fewer hours so that they can stay on welfare, and then the manager just fires them all and replaces them with a robot.
EDIT: word choice and clarification
Take some Xanax and watch the world burn, then.
The fact that you don’t find this a problem instantly invalidates your hypocritical nonsense and lends credence to the other side.
Prove it’s not.
Addendum: Yeah, Soli, I don’t like BBCode anymore…
The more companies like Apple go out of their way to implement "diversity" programs, the more I suspect any given minority group favored by those diversity programs will somehow be less competent than the norm...
They didn't earn it by themselves, they were given an artificial boost based on their color, and it's hard to respect someone like that compared to someone that earned their way on merit.
This is such a pile of horseshit. Apple doesn't hand out jobs to bums, every beneficiary of a scholarship or an assisted programme has to overcome huge barriers and qualifications. The idea that "they didn't earn it" is nonsense when the system is totally skewed towards the white, resource rich, and privileged, who have supposed "merit".
And again, "competence" takes many forms. Diversity (without the patronising parentheses) itself may form a part of competence if it fulfils the corporations overall aims.
This is such a pile of horseshit. Apple doesn't hand out jobs to bums, every beneficiary of a scholarship or an assisted programme has to overcome huge barriers and qualifications. The idea that "they didn't earn it" is nonsense when the system is totally skewed towards the white, resource rich, and privileged, who have supposed "merit".
And again, "competence" takes many forms. Diversity (without the patronising parentheses) itself may form a part of competence if it fulfils the corporations overall aims.
How do you know there are "huge barriers"? What are the jobs and what are the barriers? List them.
How do you know there are "huge barriers"? What are the jobs and what are the barriers? List them.
Yeah, whatevs dude. Stick your fingers in your ears against the voices of millions. There's really no need for me to prove the self-evident.
While you don't want people suffering perhaps minimum wage laws are not the way to deal with poverty. Many of these jobs go to young people and others with no experience. Raise the wages for these jobs and there will be fewer openings for youth and others who need an in into the working force. For having a high minimum you are making it harder for people with little experience to get a foot in the door. In any case, I do not think you really want to encourage people to get comfortable in minimum wage jobs. You really want to nudge them to acquire a skill that will be needed.
As far as Apple goes I still feel they should tone it down when it comes to politically motivated actions. They are a company and not a charity. This does not imply that company policies should not be progressive. It does imply they should stop broadcasting it from the highest mountain.
Some tech companies are riding high at the moment and feel they can do pretty well anything with impunity. Very, very risky. In particular perhaps Apple should go back to doing what it does best and that isn't producing several revisions of the same product with little substantive differences. The hiring issue is I suspect quite silly in a company of this nature. Thankfully Apple's products are still used primarily by consumers in non-critical situations. You wouldn't want this type of thinking applied to the selection of a heart surgeon or NASA engineer.
When I attended under and graduate level schools, there was no prohibiition or dfisdcouragement as to what subject any male or female studied. A lot of fellow women students went into business and pre-law (later Law School). Computer science was then a very formal and infant subject that came under the mathematics department. The teaching and technology was stiffleing to say the least, few if any people, went into the discipline, taking statistics or math instead. We leap forward to the late 1970s and early 1980s and the dawn of a new computer age is before us- it is now becoming dominated not by the classical computer science major, but the nerd hobbyists who built thier own hardware and learned the intricacies of computer languages and coding better than that which could be obtained in any CS program. It is these fringe element nerds, mostly males, who made Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley. All genders and ethnic people are invited to learn and succeed in this field, quotas were never needed nor are these now needed. If Silicon Valley IT becomes the same ho-hum business model that is now rampant across America, it is headed downhill and another venue maybe in India or China will inherit the technological keys.
Yeah, whatevs dude. Stick your fingers in your ears against the voices of millions. There's really no need for me to prove the self-evident.
You've no evidence and you continue to just make up stuff. Certainly relieves you from having to put in an effort or think.
Well the same situation facing Silicon Valley has already happened across the majority of large US firms and having experience working in one the Fortune 500, I can attest that a lot of time and overhead is consumed by a lot of management and HR (Human Resources) covering their backs from every type of discrimination lawsuit.
This was not true of the Yahoo CEO (formerly a key Google founding employee) - Ms Mayer! Also, women like men are free to initiate their own start-up firms, there is no barrier to entry, except taking a huge risk and spending 80+ hours a week getting the right product to market and even then, there is no guarantee for success. Most people (men & women) take the safer route of getting a defined paycheck and defned benefits.
While you don't want people suffering perhaps minimum wage laws are not the way to deal with poverty. Many of these jobs go to young people and others with no experience. Raise the wages for these jobs and there will be fewer openings for youth and others who need an in into the working force. For having a high minimum you are making it harder for people with little experience to get a foot in the door. In any case, I do not think you really want to encourage people to get comfortable in minimum wage jobs. You really want to nudge them to acquire a skill that will be needed.
As far as Apple goes I still feel they should tone it down when it comes to politically motivated actions. They are a company and not a charity. This does not imply that company policies should not be progressive. It does imply they should stop broadcasting it from the highest mountain.
Some tech companies are riding high at the moment and feel they can do pretty well anything with impunity. Very, very risky. In particular perhaps Apple should go back to doing what it does best and that isn't producing several revisions of the same product with little substantive differences. The hiring issue is I suspect quite silly in a company of this nature. Thankfully Apple's products are still used primarily by consumers in non-critical situations. You wouldn't want this type of thinking applied to the selection of a heart surgeon or NASA engineer.
If a person is incapable of providing $15 per hour of of value to a company, then they are probably adding negative value (i.e. -$5/hour) they're essentially unemployable. As Tallest Skil astutely implied on post 71 above, their job can be performed by a robot. Their well being is a social issue. (and they can get a job at my local post office)
Also, Interns should be paid.
PC-types however do think this way on every issue. OBTW- when was the last time females were drafted or had to register for the Draft in the USA? Never!
Hey, FM; are you maybe hitting Reply instead of Quote in the bottom right? Reply does absolutely nothing. I have no idea why it’s there. Quote will grab the text of the post to which you want to reply and give context to your statements. It just seems that you’re replying to specific people but we’re unable to see who it is.
You've no evidence and you continue to just make up stuff. Certainly keeps you from having to put in an effort or think.
Nah, I just don't see the point in putting in effort to show some people what is right before their eyes. Black and hispanic peoples have no barriers to entry into the professional workforce you say? Pull the other one. I know enough about you to know that there's nothing in it for me to justify putting in the time to prove such an obvious fact, since you're ideologically blind to reality.
Disagree if you like, call me names if you like, I care not.
Well having things automated is yet another issue. In the extreme case where almost everything was automated you would have a problem with how to distribute wealth.
As far as the $15 employees go, these might very well be interns or people with little experience in the job market. Usually interns work in jobs related to their training. Minimum wage jobs provide a way of getting money to young people, people in transition, etc ...
I am not sure what you want. This is not the law of the jungle. There are plenty of jobs for which a minimum wage is suitable. As I said, you just don't want these jobs to be permanent for most people. Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the people who best fit within the minimum wage environment. Moreover a high minimum wage just increases the underground economy.
Wealth comes from your time and the work you put into it. You “distribute” it to those who work.
Exactly. In all the arguments about minimum wage, nearly everyone misses the actual point. Wage increases only increase the cost of everything else and devalue the dollar. Instead of raising minimum wage, raise the purchasing power of a single dollar! It doesn’t matter if you only make $10,000 a year if you’re able to live in comfort on $7,000! Make an individual dollar WORTH more and you won’t need to raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000.