Does that CBA turkey think we just crawled out from some rock. CBA requires some low tech plastic mini credit card to be glued onto the back of ur phone to enable their dumb tap and pay! What a joke you are CBA and all other Aussie banks. Wake up or move over for a less greedy player. Bring them on.
I've tried using Apple Pay a few times here in the UK and have gone back to my credit card which has NFC built in.
Out of the 7 transactions I tried with Apple Pay only 3 went through without a hitch.
Twice I had to put my card in anyway to "verify the payment method" and the other two times my iPhone showed done but the cashier confirmed that the transaction hadn't gone through.
I really wanted to love Apple Pay and can see how it would be a bit of a revelation in a county like the USA that was so far behind in terms of banking technology, chip & pin and contact less payments etc, but my NFC debit/credit cards almost never fail and don't need to be held against the NFC terminal nearly as long as my phone.
I'll try it again next year, maybe improvements will have been brought in by then.
Shut up stupid troll, go take you Samsung BS elsewhere. Bet you haven't even tried Apple Pay, it works perfectly everytime.
Only reason it would not work is dumb users who can't even hold their little finger on the button.
I think that Apple Pay wil face an uphill battle in all countries which already have a decent and secure e-payment in place. In these countries the argument of less fraud does not play that well. There is no incentive for the banks to give away some margin to Apple, if Apple Pay only brings greater comfort to the consumer but not additional value to the banks.
The situation in Australia just proves this. I predict similar scenarios in some European countries
While Apple did do a lot to get this foundation built up but with potentially trillions of dollars in revenue through cards each year that Apple 15¢ per $100 that's $7.5 billion per year nearly all in profit from just $500 billion in charges.
$750 million, not 7.5 billion, unless math fails me.
I think that Apple Pay wil face an uphill battle in all countries which already have a decent and secure e-payment in place. In these countries the argument of less fraud does not play that well. There is no incentive for the banks to give away some margin to Apple, if Apple Pay only brings greater comfort to the consumer but not additional value to the banks.
The situation in Australia just proves this. I predict similar scenarios in some European countries
Well, the one thing ApplePay on iPhone does add is a second factor (finger-print) which should allow for a much higher transaction limit than the typical A$50 in Australian contactless (or £20 in the UK).
Between reliability concerns, no obvious speed advantage - and the chance of losing battery, I can't see myself leaving my physical cards at home and really thinning my wallet. I'm not even sure I can see myself using it in preference to physical cards day-to-day at this point in time. As saarek said, I really want to love ApplePay and really want to give it a go - but fear it won't improve much - and open the opportunity for embarrassment if it fails to work - never underestimate *that* factor.
Here's waiting for Lloyds or one of the Aussie banks to implement it so I can try it rather than speculating.
For the Australians whingeing about Australian banks, I would just like to say I would love to swap you the Irish banks for them. No interest on transaction account deposits whatsoever. Almost no interest on term deposits or online savings accounts, and a several day delay in transferring money out of an online savings account, even when you are doing the transaction online. Fees for absolutely everything; withdrawing cash from an ATM, doing a transaction in person with a teller, pretty much every transaction on your account incurs a fee.
It's gotten so bad that I and many others make regular maximum limit cash withdrawals via an ATM - the cheapest way to get your money back - and then pay cash for everything where it's possible to do so.
There is a very obvious and simple solution to this. The banks can just pay the fees Apple is demanding from the users account. The banks keep their earnings intact, Apple gets what they want and Apple Pay users will be happy they are making their favourite company even richer. Everybody wins.
I think the banks would go for it if Apple halved their margin from what is being reported here. What they're asking is something In the range of 30-35% of the banks take.
If they do drop the fee Apple get the same percentage of the margin in other markets and we are away.
Having said that, contactless is pretty handy. It's $100 PINless on my own cards and it's no big deal to enter the PIN for amounts above that. You're right there at the machine anyway.
It's in none of the banks interest to introduce Apple Pay so it's likely the customer will not get to decide, they're likely not to get a choice (bobshlob) unless at least one major bank goes with ApplePay and the rest feel they have to follow.
Would Apple Pay be more convenient to customers, well yes, but as the article points out we've had touchless banking for a while now down here, it's not new, so there is no overwhelmingly compelling reason for the Banks and Retailers to implement. Customers are not going to be kicking and screaming demanding Apple Pay since what they have kinda works ok and the banks like the fees and they won't give them up without kicking and screaming themselves.......Any small group of customers demanding Apple Pay would be politely ignored - that's the way it works down here.
In this age of surveillance cameras and cellphones, you're deluding yourself on the 0%/100%, but it's the closest you're gonna get.
Probably 0%-1% fees, depending upon how/where you store your money, and maybe 15% anonymous? (Edit: I realize it's ridiculous to assign percentage values to anonymity beyond the 0/100% dichotomy. Sue me; I'm just trying to make a point.)
For the Australians whingeing about Australian banks, I would just like to say I would love to swap you the Irish banks for them. No interest on transaction account deposits whatsoever. Almost no interest on term deposits or online savings accounts, and a several day delay in transferring money out of an online savings account, even when you are doing the transaction online. Fees for absolutely everything; withdrawing cash from an ATM, doing a transaction in person with a teller, pretty much every transaction on your account incurs a fee.
True to an extent. But the ECB benchmark rate is 0.3% while the RBA is 2% - so it's hardly surprising that Irish banks offer very little interest on deposits. Having said that, I do have an Irish account too and the fees are very uncompetitive. I think Australia benefited from a lot of shake-ups from smaller startup/foreign banks such as ING Direct and BankWest. Some of these are gone or acquired by the "big four" but the market benefits remain.
If mugged, you lose 100% of what you are carrying.
Foreigners have always had problems getting into Australia.
The UK has had contactless payment for years and it's not rebelling against a new way to pay simply because the banks know it'll eventually reduce fraud which the banks foot the bill for.
What's the "hubris" part? Australian banks consider the Apple cut too big a slice of their ever-shrinking fee pie. That is a financial decision, not hubris. More and more it seems like these headlines are taken from a cult manifesto.
Does this pre-existing Australian method feature tokenization?
Tokens are provided by the CC companies like Mastercard and VISA and not the middle man, which in this case would be Apple. With that said Apple Pay (at least for now) is doing the integration with iOS devices rather than the CC companies directly. And yes the CC companies are integrating tokenization this year in Australia, the second country to do after the US.
EDIT: Here's a link that mentions the timetable as well as some usage numbers.
EDIT2: Here's another source for all you probably want to know about tokenization. There's a lot of misunderstanding here about it and where it comes from. It's not an Apple creation. http://www.nfcworld.com/technology/tokenization/
By the way according to industry reports the CC companies have decided to make the token system free now, contributing it to standards and taking care of it themselves, meaning providers other than Apple (AndroidPay, SamsungPay, etc.) won't be getting a cut of the fees for providing it.
I've tried using Apple Pay a few times here in the UK and have gone back to my credit card which has NFC built in.
Out of the 7 transactions I tried with Apple Pay only 3 went through without a hitch.
Twice I had to put my card in anyway to "verify the payment method" and the other two times my iPhone showed done but the cashier confirmed that the transaction hadn't gone through.
I really wanted to love Apple Pay and can see how it would be a bit of a revelation in a county like the USA that was so far behind in terms of banking technology, chip & pin and contact less payments etc, but my NFC debit/credit cards almost never fail and don't need to be held against the NFC terminal nearly as long as my phone.
I'll try it again next year, maybe improvements will have been brought in by then.
It's great in the UK to pay for the tube using the Apple Watch. It is inconvenient for all other payments.
The reason is simply that when you take out a credit card, the cashiers see this and instinctively enable the card reader. The displays then shows whether you can tap or need to insert the card.
If you want to use a phone or watch, you need to tell the cashier, and then half the time the credit card reader does not accept contactles and you have to put the phone away and take the credit card out. The process is not slick.
It's also cumbersome to switch credit cards on Apple Pay: click to turn the phone on, rest finger for home screen, flick to get to Passbook, tap to open, tap to chose credit cards, tap again to change card, rest finger for authentication.
Well it is clear that the Australia banks don't have their customers best interest in their heart. Apple Pay is such a convenience revolution that any bank who cares about its customers would beg and rush to implement it fees be damned.
I've tried using Apple Pay a few times here in the UK and have gone back to my credit card which has NFC built in.
Out of the 7 transactions I tried with Apple Pay only 3 went through without a hitch.
Twice I had to put my card in anyway to "verify the payment method" and the other two times my iPhone showed done but the cashier confirmed that the transaction hadn't gone through.
I really wanted to love Apple Pay and can see how it would be a bit of a revelation in a county like the USA that was so far behind in terms of banking technology, chip & pin and contact less payments etc, but my NFC debit/credit cards almost never fail and don't need to be held against the NFC terminal nearly as long as my phone.
I'll try it again next year, maybe improvements will have been brought in by then.
It's great in the UK to pay for the tube using the Apple Watch. It is inconvenient for all other payments.
The reason is simply that when you take out a credit card, the cashiers see this and instinctively enable the card reader. The displays then shows whether you can tap or need to insert the card.
If you want to use a phone or watch, you need to tell the cashier, and then half the time the credit card reader does not accept contactles and you have to put the phone away and take the credit card out. The process is not slick.
It's also cumbersome to switch credit cards on Apple Pay: click to turn the phone on, rest finger for home screen, flick to get to Passbook, tap to open, tap to chose credit cards, tap again to change card, rest finger for authentication.
With real cards: flip wallet open, pick card.
Weird, quaint systems you people have out there. Perhaps the POS terminals are quirky, or payment protocols are. I have no issues at all in the U.S., with retailers who have NFC terminals. It would appear that the system just activates a few seconds after the purchases have been rung in.
I agree that changing the credit card on the iPhone takes a few steps. But most often, people tend to have one default card. On the watch, changing cards is a cinch: just swipe the screen before holding it against the terminal. I don't see why something similar can't be implemented with the phone.
Granted, I wish NFC terminals were ubiquitous, but it's getting there.
Comments
I've tried using Apple Pay a few times here in the UK and have gone back to my credit card which has NFC built in.
Out of the 7 transactions I tried with Apple Pay only 3 went through without a hitch.
Twice I had to put my card in anyway to "verify the payment method" and the other two times my iPhone showed done but the cashier confirmed that the transaction hadn't gone through.
I really wanted to love Apple Pay and can see how it would be a bit of a revelation in a county like the USA that was so far behind in terms of banking technology, chip & pin and contact less payments etc, but my NFC debit/credit cards almost never fail and don't need to be held against the NFC terminal nearly as long as my phone.
I'll try it again next year, maybe improvements will have been brought in by then.
Shut up stupid troll, go take you Samsung BS elsewhere. Bet you haven't even tried Apple Pay, it works perfectly everytime.
Only reason it would not work is dumb users who can't even hold their little finger on the button.
God, I hate trolls!
I think that Apple Pay wil face an uphill battle in all countries which already have a decent and secure e-payment in place. In these countries the argument of less fraud does not play that well. There is no incentive for the banks to give away some margin to Apple, if Apple Pay only brings greater comfort to the consumer but not additional value to the banks.
The situation in Australia just proves this. I predict similar scenarios in some European countries
$750 million, not 7.5 billion, unless math fails me.
I think that Apple Pay wil face an uphill battle in all countries which already have a decent and secure e-payment in place. In these countries the argument of less fraud does not play that well. There is no incentive for the banks to give away some margin to Apple, if Apple Pay only brings greater comfort to the consumer but not additional value to the banks.
The situation in Australia just proves this. I predict similar scenarios in some European countries
Well, the one thing ApplePay on iPhone does add is a second factor (finger-print) which should allow for a much higher transaction limit than the typical A$50 in Australian contactless (or £20 in the UK).
Between reliability concerns, no obvious speed advantage - and the chance of losing battery, I can't see myself leaving my physical cards at home and really thinning my wallet. I'm not even sure I can see myself using it in preference to physical cards day-to-day at this point in time. As saarek said, I really want to love ApplePay and really want to give it a go - but fear it won't improve much - and open the opportunity for embarrassment if it fails to work - never underestimate *that* factor.
Here's waiting for Lloyds or one of the Aussie banks to implement it so I can try it rather than speculating.
For the Australians whingeing about Australian banks, I would just like to say I would love to swap you the Irish banks for them. No interest on transaction account deposits whatsoever. Almost no interest on term deposits or online savings accounts, and a several day delay in transferring money out of an online savings account, even when you are doing the transaction online. Fees for absolutely everything; withdrawing cash from an ATM, doing a transaction in person with a teller, pretty much every transaction on your account incurs a fee.
It's gotten so bad that I and many others make regular maximum limit cash withdrawals via an ATM - the cheapest way to get your money back - and then pay cash for everything where it's possible to do so.
There is a very obvious and simple solution to this. The banks can just pay the fees Apple is demanding from the users account. The banks keep their earnings intact, Apple gets what they want and Apple Pay users will be happy they are making their favourite company even richer. Everybody wins.
If they do drop the fee Apple get the same percentage of the margin in other markets and we are away.
Having said that, contactless is pretty handy. It's $100 PINless on my own cards and it's no big deal to enter the PIN for amounts above that. You're right there at the machine anyway.
0% fees, 100% anonymous
Would Apple Pay be more convenient to customers, well yes, but as the article points out we've had touchless banking for a while now down here, it's not new, so there is no overwhelmingly compelling reason for the Banks and Retailers to implement. Customers are not going to be kicking and screaming demanding Apple Pay since what they have kinda works ok and the banks like the fees and they won't give them up without kicking and screaming themselves.......Any small group of customers demanding Apple Pay would be politely ignored - that's the way it works down here.
In this age of surveillance cameras and cellphones, you're deluding yourself on the 0%/100%, but it's the closest you're gonna get.
Probably 0%-1% fees, depending upon how/where you store your money, and maybe 15% anonymous? (Edit: I realize it's ridiculous to assign percentage values to anonymity beyond the 0/100% dichotomy. Sue me; I'm just trying to make a point.)
For the Australians whingeing about Australian banks, I would just like to say I would love to swap you the Irish banks for them. No interest on transaction account deposits whatsoever. Almost no interest on term deposits or online savings accounts, and a several day delay in transferring money out of an online savings account, even when you are doing the transaction online. Fees for absolutely everything; withdrawing cash from an ATM, doing a transaction in person with a teller, pretty much every transaction on your account incurs a fee.
True to an extent. But the ECB benchmark rate is 0.3% while the RBA is 2% - so it's hardly surprising that Irish banks offer very little interest on deposits. Having said that, I do have an Irish account too and the fees are very uncompetitive. I think Australia benefited from a lot of shake-ups from smaller startup/foreign banks such as ING Direct and BankWest. Some of these are gone or acquired by the "big four" but the market benefits remain.
0% fees, 100% anonymous
If mugged, you lose 100% of what you are carrying.
Foreigners have always had problems getting into Australia.
The UK has had contactless payment for years and it's not rebelling against a new way to pay simply because the banks know it'll eventually reduce fraud which the banks foot the bill for.
EDIT: Here's a link that mentions the timetable as well as some usage numbers.
http://www.nfcworld.com/2015/02/24/334269/australia-to-get-visa-tokens-in-2015/
EDIT2: Here's another source for all you probably want to know about tokenization. There's a lot of misunderstanding here about it and where it comes from. It's not an Apple creation.
http://www.nfcworld.com/technology/tokenization/
By the way according to industry reports the CC companies have decided to make the token system free now, contributing it to standards and taking care of it themselves, meaning providers other than Apple (AndroidPay, SamsungPay, etc.) won't be getting a cut of the fees for providing it.
It's great in the UK to pay for the tube using the Apple Watch. It is inconvenient for all other payments.
The reason is simply that when you take out a credit card, the cashiers see this and instinctively enable the card reader. The displays then shows whether you can tap or need to insert the card.
If you want to use a phone or watch, you need to tell the cashier, and then half the time the credit card reader does not accept contactles and you have to put the phone away and take the credit card out. The process is not slick.
It's also cumbersome to switch credit cards on Apple Pay: click to turn the phone on, rest finger for home screen, flick to get to Passbook, tap to open, tap to chose credit cards, tap again to change card, rest finger for authentication.
With real cards: flip wallet open, pick card.
Weird, quaint systems you people have out there. Perhaps the POS terminals are quirky, or payment protocols are. I have no issues at all in the U.S., with retailers who have NFC terminals. It would appear that the system just activates a few seconds after the purchases have been rung in.
I agree that changing the credit card on the iPhone takes a few steps. But most often, people tend to have one default card. On the watch, changing cards is a cinch: just swipe the screen before holding it against the terminal. I don't see why something similar can't be implemented with the phone.
Granted, I wish NFC terminals were ubiquitous, but it's getting there.
...two times my iPhone showed done but the cashier confirmed that the transaction hadn't gone through.
And in other news, your credit card bill show the same charge three times in a row...