Apple might be 'named and shamed' in Australia for avoiding taxes

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 96
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    ascii wrote: »
    I don't think so. Multinational companies have enjoyed a window where tax laws (which were drafted in an age when most companies were national only) have not caught up with them and the additional tricks available to them as multinationals. Just as media pirates enjoyed a brief window before the law caught up with torrents and the global nature of the Internet. 

    The law moves slowly but it does move, and these windows are coming to a close. Soon multinationals will have to pay the same tax as nationals, and they will have to decide, given the new arrangements, whether it's still worthwhile operating in all the countries they currently operate in.

    Time for the idiots in Washington to do something and implement the "corporate tax holiday" they've been teasing before these other countries sink their teeth in.
  • Reply 42 of 96
    steveausteveau Posts: 299member

    I'm an Australian working in the UAE. Australia is about 60th on the Wikipedia list of tax versus GDP and 24th out of 30 in the latest Treasury Report that I could find, so it's not that bad comparatively, and we get universal health cover and universal disability insurance. But, this is all about boring politics, I'm on this website for the fun of understanding the best tech on the planet!

  • Reply 43 of 96
    I know that this might sound a little odd, but if companies are moving their money around to countries for better tax deals, and you can't dredge up the stones to fix your own laws, how about talking to the other countries who are facilitating the behavior, rather than the people who are taking advantage of the loophole? You have banks and diplomats and such, right?
  • Reply 44 of 96
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    Time for the idiots in Washington to do something and implement the "corporate tax holiday" they've been teasing before these other countries sink their teeth in.

     

    Tax changes are extremely unlikely to be backdated in any country of consequence, so whether your U.S. corporate tax holiday happens or doesn't happen won't make a jot of difference.

  • Reply 45 of 96
    ggfggf Posts: 42member



    I think this is more about Senator Sam Dam Dastyari trying to raise his personal profile than it is about anything else.

  • Reply 46 of 96
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Your laws allow this to happen. Blame yourselves.
  • Reply 47 of 96
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by droslovinia View Post



    I know that this might sound a little odd, but if companies are moving their money around to countries for better tax deals, and you can't dredge up the stones to fix your own laws, how about talking to the other countries who are facilitating the behavior, rather than the people who are taking advantage of the loophole? You have banks and diplomats and such, right?

    How do you imagine that conversation would go?

     

    - Please stop having a lower tax rate than us.

    - No.

  • Reply 48 of 96
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     



    Having lived in Australia, I'll swap my taxes for Australia's, any day of the week.  10% GST, try 23%.




    I have been living in Ireland for a while but will probably return in a couple of years.

  • Reply 49 of 96
    Have you seen the workload those politicians have? It's exhausting: they have to actually get up and go somewhere almost every day and it just wears on a person, y'know? Who the hell even has time to write legislation that takes more from those who earn the most?

    C'mon everyone. Give 'em a break. These politicians obviously are not very bright; if they were, they'd realize that corporations don't pay taxes anyway. People pay taxes. And if a corporation gets a higher tax bill, they'll raise retail prices to pay for the taxes.

    It's certain that those who've learned how to earn the most have also figured out how to keep it. And they'll hire the best legal and accounting minds they can to do so, because it's cheaper to do that than it is to pay the taxes.
  • Reply 50 of 96
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steveau View Post



    Can anyone on this site read English? "An Australian Senate committee investigating corporate tax avoidance is set to present transparency proposals on Monday." In other words this is the Australian parliament proposing to improve the australian tax system so that big multinationals pay the same company tax, etc. as everyone else in the country.

    Also "... in 2012 charged Apple with $28.5 million in back taxes.", meaning that Apple did break the existing rules then, and might have since.

    I love Apple, but that doesn't mean I love every tax accountant that works for them, that would be way too much love!

     

    Actually, that's not what that sentence means at all. There's no mention in that sentence of actually changing the tax code or making corporations pay any more (or less, or anything else). It says that:

     

    1) The committee is "investigating corporate tax avoidance" (important detail there - "avoidance" implies legal minimization of tax liability while adhering to tax code, as opposed to "evasion" which would mean unlawfully failing to pay a tax liability).

     

    2) The committee is suggesting "transparency" to some degree - in other words, making a public record of some information.

     

    All it implies is letting the public legally see (at least some of) the corporate tax returns filed to see how much they [ostensibly legally] pay.

     

    Hence, the "name and shame" part of the headline of the article. Moreover, there's nothing anywhere else in the article to support that interpretation (that I saw - correct me if I'm wrong and there's something actually suggesting changing any tax code).

     

    Unrelated: I felt it was condescending to say: "Can anyone on this site read English?" Maybe I read it wrong, but the's how it came across to me.

  • Reply 51 of 96
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    crowley wrote: »
    How do you imagine that conversation would go?

    - Please stop having a lower tax rate than us.
    - No.
    - we will levy taxes/fees on your imports into our country.
    - lets talk.
  • Reply 52 of 96
    That's called a trade war and its against international law when two countries have signed trade agreements.

    Lower tax rates are good ways for smaller countries to compete with larger ones. Get over it.
  • Reply 53 of 96

    Hate to point this out again but taxes paid by corporations are really just hidden taxes passed on to you the consumer.  Corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from us, the consumer, for the government. To a corporation, taxes are in many ways the same as the cost of raw materials, buildings, utilities, wages, etc.  All are costs born by the corporation in producing a product make up the purchase price. Governments like to hide taxes in this way.  Keeping them hidden from view keeps the people from revolting due to outrageously high tax rates. Ever look at the hidden fees and items added to your cable TV or telcom bill?

     

    I'd suggest that we eliminate corporate taxes and fund the government via a flat tax on all earnings, no exclusions or deductions. You earn money you pay a fixed percentage of your earnings period.  This would put the people back in charge of any over spending habits of our government. This would also eliminate most of the IRS (which has been caught operating as a political arm of the administration) and the need to hire tax lawyers or accountants who are familiar with the thousands of pages that make up our tax code.  We here in the US have some serious debt and we just keep borrowing money from other countries to pay our debt and feed our politicians out of control spending habits.  It's affecting virtually everything we buy.  Want to keep companies and jobs in your country?  A 0% percent corporate tax would absolutely guarantee it.  A 0% corporate tax would lead to a huge surge in new businesses and jobs, not just service sector jobs but high paying jobs.  

     

    In the mean time we are some 18.2 Trillion in debt and growing rapidly.  Want to know more about our economy watch this video: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/#debtexplained

  • Reply 54 of 96
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    - we will levy taxes/fees on your imports into our country.

    - lets talk.



    So wind the world commerce clock back to the 70's then?  There's something to be said for that.  At least most western governments seemed to be able to almost live within their means prior to globalisation and the great corporate tax dodge dance.

  • Reply 55 of 96
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nouser View Post

     

    Hate to point this out again but taxes paid by corporations are really just hidden taxes passed on to you the consumer.  Corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from us, the consumer, for the government.


    Right wing nonsense.  Apple avoid a massive amount tax on their activities in both Australia and Europe.  Are Apple products any cheaper in those regions - nope, they're more expensive.  Taxes avoided by large corporations by doing the international fandango, have to be made up for by higher taxes on the local populations and businesses that can't do that dance.  The piper has to be paid.

  • Reply 56 of 96
    nouser wrote: »
    Hate to point this out again but taxes paid by corporations are really just hidden taxes passed on to you the consumer.  Corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from us, the consumer, for the government. To a corporation, taxes are in many ways the same as the cost of raw materials, buildings, utilities, wages, etc.  All are costs born by the corporation in producing a product make up the purchase price. Governments like to hide taxes in this way.  Keeping them hidden from view keeps the people from revolting due to outrageously high tax rates. Ever look at the hidden fees and items added to your cable TV or telcom bill?

    I'd suggest that we eliminate corporate taxes and fund the government via a flat tax on all earnings, no exclusions or deductions. You earn money you pay a fixed percentage of your earnings period.  This would put the people back in charge of any over spending habits of our government. This would also eliminate most of the IRS (which has been caught operating as a political arm of the administration) and the need to hire tax lawyers or accountants who are familiar with the thousands of pages that make up our tax code.  We here in the US have some serious debt and we just keep borrowing money from other countries to pay our debt and feed our politicians out of control spending habits.  It's affecting virtually everything we buy.  Want to keep companies and jobs in your country?  A 0% percent corporate tax would absolutely guarantee it.  A 0% corporate tax would lead to a huge surge in new businesses and jobs, not just service sector jobs but high paying jobs.  

    In the mean time we are some 18.2 Trillion in debt and growing rapidly.  Want to know more about our economy watch this video: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/#debtexplained

    www.FairTax.org

    Just say no to income taxes.
  • Reply 57 of 96
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    nouser wrote: »
    Hate to point this out again but taxes paid by corporations are really just hidden taxes passed on to you the consumer.  Corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from us, the consumer, for the government. To a corporation, taxes are in many ways the same as the cost of raw materials, buildings, utilities, wages, etc.  All are costs born by the corporation in producing a product make up the purchase price. Governments like to hide taxes in this way.  Keeping them hidden from view keeps the people from revolting due to outrageously high tax rates. Ever look at the hidden fees and items added to your cable TV or telcom bill?

    I'd suggest that we eliminate corporate taxes and fund the government via a flat tax on all earnings, no exclusions or deductions. You earn money you pay a fixed percentage of your earnings period.  This would put the people back in charge of any over spending habits of our government. This would also eliminate most of the IRS (which has been caught operating as a political arm of the administration) and the need to hire tax lawyers or accountants who are familiar with the thousands of pages that make up our tax code.  We here in the US have some serious debt and we just keep borrowing money from other countries to pay our debt and feed our politicians out of control spending habits.  It's affecting virtually everything we buy.  Want to keep companies and jobs in your country?  A 0% percent corporate tax would absolutely guarantee it.  A 0% corporate tax would lead to a huge surge in new businesses and jobs, not just service sector jobs but high paying jobs.  

    In the mean time we are some 18.2 Trillion in debt and growing rapidly.  Want to know more about our economy watch this video: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/#debtexplained
    Cue lots of rich people declaring minimal income and hiding behind shell corporations that provide their housing, upkeep and leisure.
  • Reply 58 of 96
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    www.FairTax.org

    Just say no to income taxes.

    How can we just say no if we're voluntarily complying? ;)
  • Reply 59 of 96
    So let me understand this.

    Apple does its due diligence by finding a way to LEGALLY spend less in taxes and they are supposed to be "ashamed?" That's called being smart. And good stewardship over its resources.

    LOL Australia. That's laughing AT the government. Not WITH them.

    Apple does nothing wrong. Therefore, it needs not be ashamed but rather should be proud for its diligence in managing its money so effectively. And within legal bounds mind you.

    If Australia wants something different, how about you follow apples lead in finding solutions. Not just acting like children to make someone feel bad for no reason.

    Time to update your tax laws. Then from that point forward, you can apply them from that point forward. and no retroactive shenanigans either. Because Apple abode by the current law.
  • Reply 60 of 96
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

    Right wing nonsense.  Apple avoid a massive amount tax on their activities in both Australia and Europe.  Are Apple products any cheaper in those regions - nope, they're more expensive.  Taxes avoided by large corporations by doing the international fandango, have to be made up for by higher taxes on the local populations and businesses that can't do that dance.  The piper has to be paid.


    Just nonsense. (Neither left- nor right-wing.)

     

    Do you know why Apple's prices are higher in Europe and Australia? And, is Apple the only CE maker whose prices are higher in Europe and Australia?

Sign In or Register to comment.