Again why are you AVOIDING my profit margin comment?
Apple's profit margin is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than both Microsoft and Google. It was at 21% last year. How is that greedy?
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Looking at 10Q filings for this past quarter Apple's profit margin was 21.5% Google's was 21%. Looking at Microsoft's 10K for 2014 their profit margin was 25.4%.
I used to have a 16GB iPhone for about a year, then I ended up upgrading it to a 64GB iPhone 6 as the 16GB version of any iPhone is not big enough for me.
If people are so hardup for cash they always can buy the iPhone6 32 GB for $199
Seriously, what the hell is $100 over 2 years. Its like paying a dime a day. Or skipping one Starbucks drink a month.
Nobody is paying an <$200 over 2 years for a new iPhone. It's more like $750. If you want to consider the cost of something with monthly payments then you need to factor in all of the costs. Although I almost never purchase something with a payment plan, I'm quite tired of things being advertised as "only $99" or "get a new car for only $2000" when it's only the down payment being referred to. If we had real truth in advertising laws then I would certainly like to claim that new Chevrolet for only $2000 and make the dealer eat the rest for their arrogance.
This is annoying! Its about time Apple drop the 16GB model. Its a ridiculously small capacity nowadays, and I don't buy this 'its only for business clients' BS! I currently own a 32GB 5S and its barely enough for my needs, and I'm not a data hog! Only Apple continues with this meagre capacity in the high-end smartphone market, probably because they can, as there's no alternative for iOS users unless their willing to switch loyalties to Android, which understandably they don't want to do. It increasingly seems just another way for Apple to make more money off their loyal clients and it stinks! They're the biggest richest company in the world...enough already.
Hey, Apple, why 16GB? Why not drop it down to 8 GB? Why not 4GB? No. 2GB iPhone 6S. You'll have great margins. And most people don't need more than a couple of gigs, right?
After all, it's not like iPhones are high end luxury items -- oh wait, they are.
That's just cheap, Apple. And iPhone is not supposed to be cheap.
Hardly surprising....got to keep those margins :grumble:
That's a stupid fucking response. Why would you assume Apple wouldn't maintain their same margins if, say, they moved the lowest capacity to 32GB, but reducing the quality or additional of a feature elsewhere? Why assume that 16GB doesn't work for a huge population of the iPhone community? Finally, what the **** is which this bizarre notion that all capacity tier increases have to be exactly double of the previous one? Since the cost is $100 per tier you should see a 48GB and then a 64GB stepping as being more fair than a 16GB, 32GB and 64GB stepping per $100.
Hey, Apple, why 16GB? Why not drop it down to 8 GB? Why not 4GB? No. 2GB iPhone 6S. You'll have great margins. And most people don't need more than a couple of gigs, right?
So you're response to a perfectly reasonable entry-level capacity that suits a huge part of the population that doesn't load music, videos, or large games or productive apps is to have Apple use a capacity that wouldn't even allow enough space for the installation of iOS? :no:
I'm going to be asked by dozens of people in 2 weeks, "Which iPhone should I get?," and after I determine which 'size' will work best for them (which is the one thing they typically do know), I'll check their settings to see how much of their current device they are currently utilizing. Historically, I tell about 80% of the people to get the 16GB model, which is based on them having more than half the original gibibyte capacity available for use on their current device.
Everyone freaking chill. Apple knows from their millions of customer's usage, market survey, etc how to position products and their internal hardware, features. Early on when I made a point of 16GB vs 32GB as iphone base model, I was writing while waiting for my walk-in turn in Apple retail store. My point was as technology start getting cheaper than give little more and charge the same as before so profit margins remain same for money to continue future innovation. Even I said, add 32GB along with 16GB and make price point half way between 16GB and 64GB.
Apple has heard loud and clear so let's not waste our time debating this issue as we all know if it does not happen in 2015, it will certainly will happen in 2016 for sure. No company will continue staus quo(16GB base) for several years and stay on top of customer satisfaction.
Really? 12 MP camera and 4K video, ForceTouch, selfie flash, series 7000 aluminum, 2 Gig of RAM, much faster A9.
Seems like a nice collection of improvements to me.
It depends on your needs. I saw the 5S that way until I finally got one. There's nothing like Touch ID, and I'm not sure ow I lived without it now. However, most people didn't know they needed it, or even what it was exactly.
In the end, it all comes down to pricing for me. If Mark Gurman's latest rumor pans out (below), then I think those features are not necessarily compelling to most, not to suffer some cannibalization from a $100 cheaper 6 Plus in particular:
$450 -- 5S
$549 -- 6
$649 -- 6 Plus
$649 -- 6S
$749 -- 6S Plus
I shudder to think of the number of people who who find the most compelling upgrade a selfie-flash, but Apple has been actively courting them since they introduced FaceTime camera burst-mode. Camera spec people may be all over that 12MP camera, but Apple has consistently downplayed pixel count, and has built a marketing campaign out of the camera quality on the 6. Like Touch ID, I'm not sure people know whether Force Touch is going to be a big deal or not. 4K video is well beyond what most people would ever want, especially for someone who opts for a 16GB model. In fact, while 2GB RAM means something to me (more than the faster processor which I think most people expect is a given), marketing that might well backfire when the typical customer who confuses RAM and storage gets home and finds they have run out of room on their iPhone after paying a premium for the flagship model. Not Apple's fault of course, but that's how people think. And outside of my friend still using an iPhone 4, I haven't heard anyone say their iPhone is not fast enough. As far as the stronger aluminum as a selling point, well did Apple ever admit there was anything wrong with the 6?
Huhh. None of the posts I multi-quoted came up here...
So I'll just settle for saying that since likely a great majority of buyers always go for the base model (in Macs, iPhones, iPads, etc.), Apple's been shooting themselves in the base-model unspeccing dep't for years - decades actually - by providing sub-par experiences for users who might leave them out of frustration when they could have become long-term repeat buyers....
...and RAM seems to be the area they're most consistently "over-parsimonious" about...
Also, things aren't static. 12MP pictures will take 50% more storage space than 8MP shots, and I understand that gaming apps have an increasing RAM footprint as well.....
Further indications are that Apple's banking a whole extra $7.55 (give or take) by not doubling the RAM to 32GB - which is 1.1% of $650. Again, penny wise in the short run here could be pound foolish in the longer.... ....or squeeze that revenue out of marketing by marketing a phone that commands such loyalty it needs a little less marketing... ...and preserve the precious margins Apple's biz model is (successfully) built on.
Which also indicates memory add-ons are one of the highest margin add-ons Apple sells, which more than makes their margins by multiples....
Oh, plus the lengths some of the apologists here are willing to go to burnish the apple and admiringly justify whatever the company does are amazing.... ....but I still call bad business for both Apple and its customers in the long run
*******
In other news, while waiting for the reply window to open (sloowly) and typing ahead of the screen, I noticed Ghostery reports 91 trackers, beacons and widgets on the AI comments page... ...the most of any site I visit.
My point is Apple's profit margins are not excessive nor greedy compared to their rivals. In fact historically their profit margins have been lower than both Google and Microsoft. Recently Google/Microsoft margins have been similiar to Apple because they both lost billions on acquiring Motorolla/Nokia. Without those losses they would both be at 25% while Apple is at 21%.
The reason I pulled Microsoft 2014 numbers is it does not include the Nokia writedown. And I don't think Google's recent quarter includes anything from Motorola either. For the past several quarters Google has consistently been around 20 to 22%.
I think most people are like me. They upgrade every two years whether they need to or not. This is not my year, not to say that the 6s won't be a superb update.
I always buy the highest capacity even though I have never come close to filing it up, but I'm not on a tight budget either. The way I figure, you can't add more storage later and you never know what your needs might be a year down the road. Perhaps some opportunity comes up where you want to document an event with lots of photos and video that you never anticipated when you bought the phone.
I think most people are like me. They upgrade every two years whether they need to or not. This is not my year, not to say that the 6s won't be a superb update.
I always buy the highest capacity even though I have never come close to filing it up, but I'm not on a tight budget either.
And that's the only reason why I'd debate that most people are not like you -- it costs money to upgrade a phone every 2 years, unless you buy the free phone. And it costs a lot more money to add storage, let alone the maximum amount offered. And most people are on a tight budget. There's far less of the Middle Class than there used to be, and growing less every year. It's pointless to debate without some actual data in front of us, but while I see your point about habit (especially when locked into a contract), I think the economic reality of most consumers tempers it somewhat.
Comments
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Looking at 10Q filings for this past quarter Apple's profit margin was 21.5% Google's was 21%. Looking at Microsoft's 10K for 2014 their profit margin was 25.4%.
Seems like a fairly lacklustre update this time around. Might not "upgrade" phones for the first time since the iPhone 4s.
Basically, the 16GB iPhone is for light users.
If people are so hardup for cash they always can buy the iPhone6 32 GB for $199
Seriously, what the hell is $100 over 2 years. Its like paying a dime a day. Or skipping one Starbucks drink a month.
Nobody is paying an <$200 over 2 years for a new iPhone. It's more like $750. If you want to consider the cost of something with monthly payments then you need to factor in all of the costs. Although I almost never purchase something with a payment plan, I'm quite tired of things being advertised as "only $99" or "get a new car for only $2000" when it's only the down payment being referred to. If we had real truth in advertising laws then I would certainly like to claim that new Chevrolet for only $2000 and make the dealer eat the rest for their arrogance.
This is annoying! Its about time Apple drop the 16GB model. Its a ridiculously small capacity nowadays, and I don't buy this 'its only for business clients' BS! I currently own a 32GB 5S and its barely enough for my needs, and I'm not a data hog! Only Apple continues with this meagre capacity in the high-end smartphone market, probably because they can, as there's no alternative for iOS users unless their willing to switch loyalties to Android, which understandably they don't want to do. It increasingly seems just another way for Apple to make more money off their loyal clients and it stinks! They're the biggest richest company in the world...enough already.
Hey, Apple, why 16GB? Why not drop it down to 8 GB? Why not 4GB? No. 2GB iPhone 6S. You'll have great margins. And most people don't need more than a couple of gigs, right?
After all, it's not like iPhones are high end luxury items -- oh wait, they are.
That's just cheap, Apple. And iPhone is not supposed to be cheap.
That's a stupid fucking response. Why would you assume Apple wouldn't maintain their same margins if, say, they moved the lowest capacity to 32GB, but reducing the quality or additional of a feature elsewhere? Why assume that 16GB doesn't work for a huge population of the iPhone community? Finally, what the **** is which this bizarre notion that all capacity tier increases have to be exactly double of the previous one? Since the cost is $100 per tier you should see a 48GB and then a 64GB stepping as being more fair than a 16GB, 32GB and 64GB stepping per $100.
So you're response to a perfectly reasonable entry-level capacity that suits a huge part of the population that doesn't load music, videos, or large games or productive apps is to have Apple use a capacity that wouldn't even allow enough space for the installation of iOS? :no:
Seems like a fairly lacklustre update this time around. Might not "upgrade" phones for the first time since the iPhone 4s.
Really? 12 MP camera and 4K video, ForceTouch, selfie flash, series 7000 aluminum, 2 Gig of RAM, much faster A9.
Seems like a nice collection of improvements to me.
What is it that you think I'm saying?
Troll: Yo Tim how is iPhone launch going?
Tim: Man its amazing. We are sold out for the next 4 weeks. We can't even keep up with DEMAND!
Troll: I got an idea for next year.
Tim: Sure Troll what is it?
Troll: My idea is you should offer more free memory next year so demand is even GREATER!!
Tim: Hardup for cash?
Troll: No? What! I'm rich bitch.
Sometimes you're overly passionate and go a bit off the deep end...but love the Tim/Troll perspective. Keep that up. Funny. Classic!
Everyone freaking chill. Apple knows from their millions of customer's usage, market survey, etc how to position products and their internal hardware, features. Early on when I made a point of 16GB vs 32GB as iphone base model, I was writing while waiting for my walk-in turn in Apple retail store. My point was as technology start getting cheaper than give little more and charge the same as before so profit margins remain same for money to continue future innovation. Even I said, add 32GB along with 16GB and make price point half way between 16GB and 64GB.
Apple has heard loud and clear so let's not waste our time debating this issue as we all know if it does not happen in 2015, it will certainly will happen in 2016 for sure. No company will continue staus quo(16GB base) for several years and stay on top of customer satisfaction.
Really? 12 MP camera and 4K video, ForceTouch, selfie flash, series 7000 aluminum, 2 Gig of RAM, much faster A9.
Seems like a nice collection of improvements to me.
It depends on your needs. I saw the 5S that way until I finally got one. There's nothing like Touch ID, and I'm not sure ow I lived without it now. However, most people didn't know they needed it, or even what it was exactly.
In the end, it all comes down to pricing for me. If Mark Gurman's latest rumor pans out (below), then I think those features are not necessarily compelling to most, not to suffer some cannibalization from a $100 cheaper 6 Plus in particular:
$450 -- 5S
$549 -- 6
$649 -- 6 Plus
$649 -- 6S
$749 -- 6S Plus
I shudder to think of the number of people who who find the most compelling upgrade a selfie-flash, but Apple has been actively courting them since they introduced FaceTime camera burst-mode. Camera spec people may be all over that 12MP camera, but Apple has consistently downplayed pixel count, and has built a marketing campaign out of the camera quality on the 6. Like Touch ID, I'm not sure people know whether Force Touch is going to be a big deal or not. 4K video is well beyond what most people would ever want, especially for someone who opts for a 16GB model. In fact, while 2GB RAM means something to me (more than the faster processor which I think most people expect is a given), marketing that might well backfire when the typical customer who confuses RAM and storage gets home and finds they have run out of room on their iPhone after paying a premium for the flagship model. Not Apple's fault of course, but that's how people think. And outside of my friend still using an iPhone 4, I haven't heard anyone say their iPhone is not fast enough. As far as the stronger aluminum as a selling point, well did Apple ever admit there was anything wrong with the 6?
Huhh. None of the posts I multi-quoted came up here...
So I'll just settle for saying that since likely a great majority of buyers always go for the base model (in Macs, iPhones, iPads, etc.), Apple's been shooting themselves in the base-model unspeccing dep't for years - decades actually - by providing sub-par experiences for users who might leave them out of frustration when they could have become long-term repeat buyers....
...and RAM seems to be the area they're most consistently "over-parsimonious" about...
Also, things aren't static. 12MP pictures will take 50% more storage space than 8MP shots, and I understand that gaming apps have an increasing RAM footprint as well.....
Further indications are that Apple's banking a whole extra $7.55 (give or take) by not doubling the RAM to 32GB - which is 1.1% of $650. Again, penny wise in the short run here could be pound foolish in the longer.... ....or squeeze that revenue out of marketing by marketing a phone that commands such loyalty it needs a little less marketing... ...and preserve the precious margins Apple's biz model is (successfully) built on.
http://clapway.com/2015/08/15/how-smartphone-manufacturers-are-taking-you-to-the-cleaners-on-storage-cost143/
Which also indicates memory add-ons are one of the highest margin add-ons Apple sells, which more than makes their margins by multiples....
Oh, plus the lengths some of the apologists here are willing to go to burnish the apple and admiringly justify whatever the company does are amazing.... ....but I still call bad business for both Apple and its customers in the long run
*******
In other news, while waiting for the reply window to open (sloowly) and typing ahead of the screen, I noticed Ghostery reports 91 trackers, beacons and widgets on the AI comments page... ...the most of any site I visit.
Hmmmm. Jus' sayin'......
The reason I pulled Microsoft 2014 numbers is it does not include the Nokia writedown. And I don't think Google's recent quarter includes anything from Motorola either. For the past several quarters Google has consistently been around 20 to 22%.
*crickets*
Seriously, show of hands?
*crickets*
How many of you find 64GB is too much storage for your phone?
*crickets*
Anyone????
*crickets*
Okay, how many of your are just armchair critics looking to score a cheap "win" against Apple? Be honest.
It depends on your needs.
I think most people are like me. They upgrade every two years whether they need to or not. This is not my year, not to say that the 6s won't be a superb update.
I always buy the highest capacity even though I have never come close to filing it up, but I'm not on a tight budget either. The way I figure, you can't add more storage later and you never know what your needs might be a year down the road. Perhaps some opportunity comes up where you want to document an event with lots of photos and video that you never anticipated when you bought the phone.
I think most people are like me. They upgrade every two years whether they need to or not. This is not my year, not to say that the 6s won't be a superb update.
I always buy the highest capacity even though I have never come close to filing it up, but I'm not on a tight budget either.
And that's the only reason why I'd debate that most people are not like you -- it costs money to upgrade a phone every 2 years, unless you buy the free phone. And it costs a lot more money to add storage, let alone the maximum amount offered. And most people are on a tight budget. There's far less of the Middle Class than there used to be, and growing less every year. It's pointless to debate without some actual data in front of us, but while I see your point about habit (especially when locked into a contract), I think the economic reality of most consumers tempers it somewhat.