I never said that ATV can't be a game console. I just mentioned that if is became one, it will be competing with the Wii U, PS4 and XOne, three devices that are hard to compete.
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Apple has proven itself with games on iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches. Adding games to a TV box wouldn't really be much of a stretch.
I'm not sure of that. Look the experience and the years of Nintendo in gaming, and how they are doing with the Wii U.
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I wouldn't say Apple's solution would be competing directly with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo. This new AppleTV might only cost $150. None of the other consoles are available that cheap. That's one difference.
I can comment on that as soon as I see the final price.
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Plus I don't think AppleTV games would cost $40-$60 either. That's another difference.
I'll have an opinion as soon as I see games prices.
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It would be a different type of game console... so it's really tough to compare it to XB, PS and WiiU anyway.
That same can be said of the Amazon Fire TV, Ouya y NVidia Shield. None of the three have make any dent to the big three in the gaming market. Let's see how the ATV does in gaming.
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And yes... let's wait and see. I am in support of Apple adding gaming to the next AppleTV though. It's got my vote!
The ATV could the best gaming device ever, or it could the one of the worst. We don't know. And I agree with you, at least Apple moving ahead with ATV as a gaming device (at least based in the rumors).
I never said that ATV can't be a game console. I just mentioned that if is became one, it will be competing with the Wii U, PS4 and XOne, three devices that are hard to compete.
I'm not sure of that. Look the experience and the years of Nintendo in gaming, and how they are doing with the Wii U.
I can comment on that as soon as I see the final price.
I'll have an opinion as soon as I see games prices.
That same can be said of the Amazon Fire TV, Ouya y NVidia Shield. None of the three have make any dent to the big three in the gaming market. Let's see how the ATV does in gaming.
The ATV could the best gaming device ever, or it could the one of the worst. We don't know. And I agree with you, at least Apple moving ahead with ATV as a gaming device (at least based in the rumors).
Competing means you can buy one or the other. No one would buy an AppleTV instead of a $400 XBox One. So that's why I say they won't necessarily be competing.
Thanks for reminding me of the Ouya... I couldn't remember it.
I imagine an AppleTV with gaming as a huge step up from those Android gaming systems. Like I said... Apple is no stranger to gaming... and its developers.
So it would be above an Ouya or ShieldTV... but below an XBox or Playstation.
I think there is a place for an AppleTV there.
Oh... and it still does all the video streaming too!
Apple is the one dreaming? Now you've really lost me. I'm not going to play this "MS is better" or "games consoles are for real gamers" crap, those little battles are so silly and meaningless that's not what I'm talking about.
On your post, you mentioned "if that can be leveraged properly, these devices will already contain so much value for gamers that a dedicated console could only dream of." And my answer was just to point how W10 and XOne, a dedicated console, already are doing that. I don't wasn't to start the MS vs Apple war. Just to point out something that MS, like it or not, is already doing. And based in your comment, it is a good thing when it came from Apple but now is bad because it is from MS?
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The beauty of all of this is that to open the Apple TV to gaming and that potential (either as direct competition or complementary to the games consoles market, it matters not to me) Apple need do nothing except open the App Store - all the rest of the pieces are already there (as Michael Scrip pointed out in his post above), gaming is simply one of the types of apps this device will support by default. Given the sheer numbers of iOS devices and users it's not difficult to imagine the offerings in gaming that could appear from developers, and that is exciting to me as someone who enjoys iOS gaming and recently sold his PS3 (as it was gathering dust the past year).
It's great that gaming in ATV is good for you and many other people. And I'm looking forward on how it develops. My point is that if ATV pushes gaming, IMO, it will be competing with the big three consoles. And console gaming include great controller, good online and multiplayer experience. And I haven't seen that in iOS games yet.
Here is my question, how better is going to be an iOS game played in a large TV when it was developed and designed for a mobile device? You mention playing with a controller, so now we are in gaming console territory. Game consoles require controllers and sit in front of large TV as part of their experience. I'm not seeing that with the current iOS games, since they were developed to be played in handheld devices.
What you posted is very similar with what Nintendo tried with the Wii U and the Gamepad Controller, and still not go the interest of the public. Maybe you see the benefit of playing iOS games in both, mobile devices and large TV's, but based in the results Nintendo had with the Wii U, I don't see it as a strong point for the ATV. And I personally think it's sad that something as innovative as the Gamepad Controller didn't succeed.
iOS is a gaming platform. Haven't you see how Apple is pushing Metal for game development?
Apple have an API for game controllers in iOS for two years now. Some iPhones apps use it
You're right... that wouldn't make much sense at all. iOS games, as of now, are mostly touch-only.
So imagine if Apple made guidelines for building additional AppleTV games that used a controller. Apple does know a thing or two about APIs and such... they already have an App Store for distribution... and there is MFI certification for controllers too... etc. All the pieces are there.
Amazon FireTV has a game controller... and who the hell are they?
It's Apple who is known for gaming. Up until now it's been on phones and tablets... but there's no reason they couldn't do it in the living room. Apple has a box in there already.
Well I would much rather use other metrics like GTexel/s a second and such, but those metrics aren't available for the SXT6 GPU's.
That's a 10 fold difference either way. I really didn't think that would be the case. I suppose Apple could use a high end separate gpu, and/or increase the number of A8 chips in the ATV.
I don't think it will be cheap. To power a 4K device for games will take power. The existing product will come in at $99 and be crap and I expect it will have different price options thereafter.
One thing that this article brings to mind (and I've said this before from time to time) is; I think the purchase of PA Semi is the greatest corporate purchase Apple ever made. Even better than SoundJam.
While that's a pretty glaring 'miss' on my part, part of the reason for that is that; while that deal did involve a financial transaction, it was sort of a "come-along" deal with the larger deal of Apple hiring that funny dude with the glasses and the turtleneck.
The potential for this is huge. As big or bigger than the current App Store. There are just so many application possibilities not to mention advertising. Advertising revenue that Google will not be able to fully tap. This is the future of television. Gaming and streaming is just the tip of it.
And if Apple can't pull it off, Google or someone else will.
I'm sure the sound is abysmal. Sound when it comes to video content is more important than picture quality—though picture is very important. It's the one area where student films falter the most: sound quality. Skinny TVs invariably mean pesky sound systems. And I'm of the thinking that you should not need to add on an additional product for the TV to be good. It should be good out of the box. The included soundbar in modern TVs should blow away TVs of old. They certainly do not.
Can't argue with that. I'm yet to see or hear a tv that comes close to my Pioneer Kuro. THAT'S the market I want to see Apple enter if they make a tv. Pioneer are sadly missed, but Apple has the "cool" to do it even better.
Thanks for the link. Cool pic, but somehow obvious, no? I would be curious to see the same map few thousand years ago, and I would not be surprised to see a similar pattern, at least regarding surviving babies. Since our kids are from February, May and soon December, we somehow had other things to do during Xmas and NYE ;-)
The Jacksons and the Johnsons were the children of the most eligible Jack or John chosen by the girls at the village seasonal fairs, especially Mayday and Beltane, I seem to remember.
So much for the sanctity of marriage among our ancestors. The lusty women ran the show back then.
I wonder if there's a spike nine months after Apple events.
Unfortunately, Apple gave Jony Ive a monopoly on user interfaces; no one approves his work and there is no user testing.
"Skeuomorphism" is a Greek word that means "things look like what they are." Jony has decided that making things look like what they are is bad design, so instead of icons that are intuitively obvious, we'll have even more abstract symbols that we have to learn. Presently we have the valentine card for the Health app, balloons for games (not parties), and paint sample sticks to see our photos. If the Apple TV UI does not remain a bunch of rounded squares that are increasingly hard to tell apart, it will look like a bubble bath, like the Apple Watch. Jony is good at drawing circles, but precious little else. The whole thing will look like OS X Hanna Barbera.
Jony Ive is a genius at designing hardware, but otherwise he is a walking design disaster who makes software hard to use. Apple could improve its design by firing Jony Ive and replacing him with an idea.
You're right... that wouldn't make much sense at all. iOS games, as of now, are mostly touch-only.
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Amazon FireTV has a game controller... and who the hell are they?
Apple has tried a gaming console in the past. It was a disaster. The Mac has never been a platform for serious gamers. iOS happened to work out fine for soft gamers. If the ATV happens to as well then great, but Apple has never been much into gaming and I feel it would be a big mistake to start now.
Amazon is rumoured to be dropping the FireTV and to focus on the Fire TV stick. Their entry into gaming was hardly a success.
Gaming would be a huge sinkhole. If people want to game on the ATV and the platform is open enough then it will happen. But it would be a mistake to go up against the PS4 and the XBox. Better to lower the cost than to have anything unnecessary for serious gamers.
The potential for this is huge. As big or bigger than the current App Store. There are just so many application possibilities not to mention advertising. Advertising revenue that Google will not be able to fully tap. This is the future of television.
Gaming and streaming is just the tip of it.
And if Apple can't pull it off, Google or someone else will.
That's all we need, yet more ads. Forget ads, forget games. Get some serious content on there with an easy to use interface and a low price. Open it up to apps and to people inventing new usages.
If we wanted ads we could just watch cable TV or browse the Google internet.
That's all we need, yet more ads. Forget ads, forget games. Get some serious content on there with an easy to use interface and a low price. Open it up to apps and to people inventing new usages.
If we wanted ads we could just watch cable TV or browse the Google internet.
We're getting ads whether we like it or not. Way too much money involved. Maybe not during your show, but they'll be there, hopefully in a more valuable way, but they definitely be there somewhere.
Do you know how common that day is for a birthday? It's the 2nd most common day, after Sept. 16th. http://www.todaysparent.com/blogs/on-our-minds/birthdays-most-common/
My hypothesis is due to Xmas and NYE being just over 9 months before that's why people have some extra free time on their hands (and other body parts).
I use to think the same but you have to start counting months from zero - it takes a whole month to get from Jan 1 to Feb 1, though that looks like 2 months. I think the real xmas babies are at the end of September and the New Years babies are early October. Maybe all the love happens at the beginning of the holiday season, before the stress of it all kicks in
The office Christmas party is exactly the right timing for early September.
Apple has tried a gaming console in the past. It was a disaster. The Mac has never been a platform for serious gamers. iOS happened to work out fine for soft gamers. If the ATV happens to as well then great, but Apple has never been much into gaming and I feel it would be a big mistake to start now.
Amazon is rumoured to be dropping the FireTV and to focus on the Fire TV stick. Their entry into gaming was hardly a success.
Gaming would be a huge sinkhole. If people want to game on the ATV and the platform is open enough then it will happen. But it would be a mistake to go up against the PS4 and the XBox. Better to lower the cost than to have anything unnecessary for serious gamers.
Just so we're clear... you voted "Big mistake" and "Huge sinkhole"
My vote... "Bring it on!"
Yes... Apple tried to make a gaming console and it failed. But it was a different time (work began 20 years ago)... and it was a different Apple too. I don't think you can make any predictions based on that.
For the record... we're talking about adding games to the Apple TV. They already made wireless controller support... do you think their end-game was a handheld controller for your handheld phone? No... I think this was the plan for a while.
I'm not saying the next AppleTV will be the next XB or PS. It doesn't have to be. Apple's phones and tablets sell a lot of games... they also have a box that hooks to the TV... why not combine the two ideas?
It's not really a stretch.
I'm curious though... if you think it's a bad idea for Apple to get into living room gaming... do you think they should get into automobiles?
We're getting ads whether we like it or not. Way too much money involved. Maybe not during your show, but they'll be there, hopefully in a more valuable way, but they definitely be there somewhere.
That would be unfortunate though you are probably right. The bottom line for me is no ads during a show. Even that would be unrealistic for sports as the games are already being scripted assuming ads. For the life of me I can't understand why people have been willing to be subjected to so much brainwashing. The ad industry is definitely powerful and has ruined so much.
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Quit blaming the user. A TV without good sound is an unfinished product.
Anyone who's serious about designing a TV solves the sound problem for the customer because it's their job.
At this point I would appreciate an ATV that had a remote that allows me to adjust the volume rather than juggle two or more remotes.
Why can't the AppleTV become a game console?
I never said that ATV can't be a game console. I just mentioned that if is became one, it will be competing with the Wii U, PS4 and XOne, three devices that are hard to compete.
I'm not sure of that. Look the experience and the years of Nintendo in gaming, and how they are doing with the Wii U.
I can comment on that as soon as I see the final price.
I'll have an opinion as soon as I see games prices.
That same can be said of the Amazon Fire TV, Ouya y NVidia Shield. None of the three have make any dent to the big three in the gaming market. Let's see how the ATV does in gaming.
The ATV could the best gaming device ever, or it could the one of the worst. We don't know. And I agree with you, at least Apple moving ahead with ATV as a gaming device (at least based in the rumors).
Competing means you can buy one or the other. No one would buy an AppleTV instead of a $400 XBox One. So that's why I say they won't necessarily be competing.
Thanks for reminding me of the Ouya... I couldn't remember it.
I imagine an AppleTV with gaming as a huge step up from those Android gaming systems. Like I said... Apple is no stranger to gaming... and its developers.
So it would be above an Ouya or ShieldTV... but below an XBox or Playstation.
I think there is a place for an AppleTV there.
Oh... and it still does all the video streaming too!
Apple is the one dreaming? Now you've really lost me. I'm not going to play this "MS is better" or "games consoles are for real gamers" crap, those little battles are so silly and meaningless that's not what I'm talking about.
On your post, you mentioned "if that can be leveraged properly, these devices will already contain so much value for gamers that a dedicated console could only dream of." And my answer was just to point how W10 and XOne, a dedicated console, already are doing that. I don't wasn't to start the MS vs Apple war. Just to point out something that MS, like it or not, is already doing. And based in your comment, it is a good thing when it came from Apple but now is bad because it is from MS?
It's great that gaming in ATV is good for you and many other people. And I'm looking forward on how it develops. My point is that if ATV pushes gaming, IMO, it will be competing with the big three consoles. And console gaming include great controller, good online and multiplayer experience. And I haven't seen that in iOS games yet.
Apple have an API for game controllers in iOS for two years now. Some iPhones apps use it
See above. An API already exists.
That's a 10 fold difference either way. I really didn't think that would be the case. I suppose Apple could use a high end separate gpu, and/or increase the number of A8 chips in the ATV.
I don't think it will be cheap. To power a 4K device for games will take power. The existing product will come in at $99 and be crap and I expect it will have different price options thereafter.
One thing that this article brings to mind (and I've said this before from time to time) is; I think the purchase of PA Semi is the greatest corporate purchase Apple ever made. Even better than SoundJam.
I would put both behind the purchase of NeXT.
DOH!!
While that's a pretty glaring 'miss' on my part, part of the reason for that is that; while that deal did involve a financial transaction, it was sort of a "come-along" deal with the larger deal of Apple hiring that funny dude with the glasses and the turtleneck.
Gaming and streaming is just the tip of it.
And if Apple can't pull it off, Google or someone else will.
I'm sure the sound is abysmal. Sound when it comes to video content is more important than picture quality—though picture is very important. It's the one area where student films falter the most: sound quality. Skinny TVs invariably mean pesky sound systems. And I'm of the thinking that you should not need to add on an additional product for the TV to be good. It should be good out of the box. The included soundbar in modern TVs should blow away TVs of old. They certainly do not.
Can't argue with that. I'm yet to see or hear a tv that comes close to my Pioneer Kuro. THAT'S the market I want to see Apple enter if they make a tv. Pioneer are sadly missed, but Apple has the "cool" to do it even better.
The Jacksons and the Johnsons were the children of the most eligible Jack or John chosen by the girls at the village seasonal fairs, especially Mayday and Beltane, I seem to remember.
So much for the sanctity of marriage among our ancestors. The lusty women ran the show back then.
I wonder if there's a spike nine months after Apple events.
"Skeuomorphism" is a Greek word that means "things look like what they are." Jony has decided that making things look like what they are is bad design, so instead of icons that are intuitively obvious, we'll have even more abstract symbols that we have to learn. Presently we have the valentine card for the Health app, balloons for games (not parties), and paint sample sticks to see our photos. If the Apple TV UI does not remain a bunch of rounded squares that are increasingly hard to tell apart, it will look like a bubble bath, like the Apple Watch. Jony is good at drawing circles, but precious little else. The whole thing will look like OS X Hanna Barbera.
Jony Ive is a genius at designing hardware, but otherwise he is a walking design disaster who makes software hard to use. Apple could improve its design by firing Jony Ive and replacing him with an idea.
Apple has tried a gaming console in the past. It was a disaster. The Mac has never been a platform for serious gamers. iOS happened to work out fine for soft gamers. If the ATV happens to as well then great, but Apple has never been much into gaming and I feel it would be a big mistake to start now.
Amazon is rumoured to be dropping the FireTV and to focus on the Fire TV stick. Their entry into gaming was hardly a success.
Gaming would be a huge sinkhole. If people want to game on the ATV and the platform is open enough then it will happen. But it would be a mistake to go up against the PS4 and the XBox. Better to lower the cost than to have anything unnecessary for serious gamers.
Some might say that it was NeXT who took over Apple and actually represented the real Apple.
That's all we need, yet more ads. Forget ads, forget games. Get some serious content on there with an easy to use interface and a low price. Open it up to apps and to people inventing new usages.
If we wanted ads we could just watch cable TV or browse the Google internet.
We're getting ads whether we like it or not. Way too much money involved. Maybe not during your show, but they'll be there, hopefully in a more valuable way, but they definitely be there somewhere.
TechCrunch stokes the fires of DISAPPOINTMENT
:no:
The office Christmas party is exactly the right timing for early September.
Ask the judge to be excused from it because Apple TV is coming.
Exactly what happened.
Just so we're clear... you voted "Big mistake" and "Huge sinkhole"
My vote... "Bring it on!"
Yes... Apple tried to make a gaming console and it failed. But it was a different time (work began 20 years ago)... and it was a different Apple too. I don't think you can make any predictions based on that.
For the record... we're talking about adding games to the Apple TV. They already made wireless controller support... do you think their end-game was a handheld controller for your handheld phone? No... I think this was the plan for a while.
I'm not saying the next AppleTV will be the next XB or PS. It doesn't have to be. Apple's phones and tablets sell a lot of games... they also have a box that hooks to the TV... why not combine the two ideas?
It's not really a stretch.
I'm curious though... if you think it's a bad idea for Apple to get into living room gaming... do you think they should get into automobiles?
Now THAT'S a stretch!
That would be unfortunate though you are probably right. The bottom line for me is no ads during a show. Even that would be unrealistic for sports as the games are already being scripted assuming ads. For the life of me I can't understand why people have been willing to be subjected to so much brainwashing. The ad industry is definitely powerful and has ruined so much.