[quote]Don't get me wrong, I would have no troubles payin $129 for an upgrade from 10.1.5 to 10.2, but people going from OS 9 to 10.2 should then be paying something like $199.<hr></blockquote>
Here's the basic crux of the full-price upgrade argument. Few people would bat an eyelash at the $129 price if it was an upgrade price, and the others who didn't own OSX had to pay more.
Given Apple's desire to get everyone over to the OSX platform doesn't a one-price-for-everyone structure make more sense in accomplishing this task?
Granted the $129 is a little steep, though--could have bumped it down to $99 and more peeps would be .
Yep, you captured the basic crux of my argument. I certainly don't mind paying for an upgrade. I do, however, mind when Apple sends me a personalized email telling me that I can buy an upgrade for $129 and then, lo and behold, I find that the non-upgrade price is also $129.
I don't want to get into the semantics of 10.2 versus 10.5, but I will note that OS 9 software doesn't run natively under OS X. To me, that says that people going from 9 to 10 are getting a fully new operating system and should be paying for a full upgrade.
10.1 software, however, will still run on 10.2 natively (at least it better!). This sounds like a partial upgrade and it should be priced appropriately.
It seems to me that Apple is content to have its users run any version of OS X and they could care less which it is. Lets see how much they keep supporting 10.1.
I'm miffed because I finally upgraded to OS X in May. This seems to be the great divide in the discussion here, between the people who've recently bought OS X (or a whole new Mac) and the people who've been using it since 2001 (or earlier). I paid full price for 10.1 two months ago and I'm not looking forward to paying full price again for 10.2 next month. That's all. No, I'm not going to threaten to switch to a Dell. No, I'm not going to hold my breath until I turn blue. Yes, I understand that Apple is a company that needs to make money. I don't believe that Steve, Phil, or anybody else "owes" me anything. It's just that if I had the chance to pay an upgrade price instead of a full price, I'd probably buy Jaguar right away. As it is, I'm sufficiently unmotivated and will wait until sometime next year. But if I start hearing rumblings from Cupertino about how 10.3 in 2004 is gonna rock and make 10.2 look like a turd, I'm sitting this whole song out. (And yes, I understand that that will be my choice.)
I agree. You should have given current 10 users a discount, Apple. 10.1.5 is working fine for me, and will have to do until the price comes down. Bad move. SORRY.
Personally, I have no problem paying $129 for Jaguar if it has what is currently advertised. QuartzXtreme, Ron-Day-Vue, Sherlock3 and Finder enhancements.
As for paying twice for 10.0 or 10.1 and then again for 10.2. Well, I've been using 10.1 for a while now, and I'd say that I've got my moneys worth. When I think back, if somebody would have said... "Hey, I'll pay you $100 if you refuse to run OS X for a year" I would have declined the offer. So, OS X is worth it to me.
I have no problems with the price of Jaguar and .Mac, but this is for me. I upgraded already the two. BUT when i saw the price of Jaguar Server, I was very angry like everybody is now with Apple. This is Glove ????
I've paid 499$ one year ago for 10.1 Server (10 clients) and now I must to pay the same amount of money for what iI think is an upgrade. Just imagine the people who have bought Xserve Unlimited ! They must pay again 999$ !!! No way to upgrade !!! This is silly !
I think Apple just blow it with Jaguar and .Mac
This is the way I think things should be for the upgrade:
10.x -> Jaguar : 89$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (10 Clients): 299$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (Unlimited): 499$
.Mac -> E-Mail only -> 10$ a year
.Mac -> Same as iTools -> 29$ a year
.Mac -> Upgraded with iSync, Backup, etc -> 49$
<strong> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Hello, development cost money. Who do you think pays for the power bills in Cupertino? Not Enron or WorldCom or Mr.Davis.
WE DO.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, then Apple's OS X development team must cost a lot more than, say Adobe's. Cause Adobe can apparently afford to give their loyal customers significant upgrade discounts.
<strong>Apple has never had UPGRADE prices for any OS. It was either free (+S/H) or $99. Now it is simply 129.00.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I seem to recall paying an upgrade price for 8.5, but I may be mistaken.
[quote]Originally posted by warpd:
<strong>I think a distinction needs to be made...Apple never charges $149.00 for "updates". Updates to the OS are always free (10.1-10.1.5...) Yesterday, if you were to go to the Apple store, and look for an "upgrade" from 10.04 to 10.1 it would have cost you $149.00. That is Apple's price for the full version of the OS. When you pay that for 10.2, you will get a full version of the OS, not just an update CD.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hello? And why would I need a full install CD when I already have my original 10.1 disc? This is exactly what I'm talking about, Apple is billing me for sh!t that I don't need in order to get the sh!t that I DO need... I couldn't care less about Inkwell (don't have a tablet), the new Address book, Quartz Extreme (since my graphics card ain't supported), Zoom (I'm not vision-impaired), iChat (I don't use chat apps), Rendezvous, Watson (I don't live in the U.S) but I do need a fast, stable & bug-free OS with a file-browser that doesn't hang or stall every five minutes. And these are the features I will be paying for, not to finally get the "finished" OS which I will now have to pay FULL PRICE TWICE for.
THIS... IS... BULL$H!T...
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: Whyatt Thrash ]</p>
I just noticed that the price of Jaguar for U.S. federal, state, and local government employeees is only $64.50 versus the $69.00 for education users. Seems odd to me but I'll take it. Jaguar here I come!
<strong>"Jaguar"? More like PUSSY. Can I justify upgrading from 10.1.>
Lets take those super cool "new" features....
iChat - pretty interface, pretty useless.
check out MSN Messenger 3.0 Mac.
It does exactly what it says on the box.
Mail - Hmmm, I can get most of what I need
with Hotmail, Yahoo etc.
Address Book - Sorry, dont need it.
Sherlock 3 - Google Rocks!
QuickTime 6 - Now this has potential! Just wish more on-line streaming content providers used QuickTime instead of Real/WMP etc..
Finder - Pretty good.
Rendezvous - Very nice if your in business, otherwise <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Quartz Extreme - Nice but not essential.
Inkwell - Sorry, don't have a graphics tablet and don't need one.
Unix - The only thing I'm "Developing" is a headache.
Compatibility - The more compatible us Mac users can get with the dreaded "wintel" the better for us all.
Universal Access - Good, but should have been in previous versions.
...all said and done, its not bad but then for a full price upgrade, its not good either.
Apple, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Give us previous X users a proper discount or you may just have a warehouse full of "Jaguar" CD roms to shift as well as outdated hardware. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
You're kidding right? You just said Jaguar stinks because "I say it does" Save your rhetoric for yourself your opinions about Jaguar are only as strong as your desire to refuse to purchase it. Should you do that more power too you but subjective information like the above is nothing someone can make a rationale decision on.
[quote] If the price is right more consumers will jump on the band wagon. Apple has to remember that the downturn in economy is also hurting the consumers pockets. To coax them to get their wallets out, you have to offer something within their price range. <hr></blockquote>
Movies like Spider Man and Star wars open to sales of 100 Million in a weekend. That's a very poor excuse. Consumers are spending money and Apple shouldn't be taking less. They have employees to pay. The upgrade price is fair. People will either purchase or they won't.
<strong>everybody should quit whining about $129 bucks.
be glad you don't have to upgrade server. its $999
no upgrade pricing there either.
Can you imagine those people who have purchased the Xserve ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mentality is not the same. Companies praise stability over everything else. If you had a company running on 10.1 server you would simply wait and see just what real world benefits 10.2 offers, assess the impact to your company and client machines and Network and then make your upgrades after testing. That's what seperates companies from consumers ...they see a dollar value to being more efficient yet they will typically use rational judgment come to a conclusion.
The consumer simply flies off the handle and claims to not want to pay based on principal ..yet he/she wants the product.
<strong>As for paying twice for 10.0 or 10.1 and then again for 10.2. Well, I've been using 10.1 for a while now, and I'd say that I've got my moneys worth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Which just further goes to illustrate my point. You've used 10.1 for a while, you feel like you've gotten something of value, and you don't mind paying full price for the next release. I'm not averse to paying something, I'm just not ready to pay that much this soon. And the fact is that I can't find a compelling reason why Apple MUST accomodate me. The company's focus right now is on getting PC users to switch to Macs and on getting people running OS 9 (or earlier) to upgrade to OS X. Offering me an incentive to upgrade to 10.2 from 10.1.5 is like preaching to the choir. It would be nice, but I'm already a part of the flock, so it's kind of a waste of time. They know I'll buy it eventually...and they're right. But that doesn't mean that I can't kick at the dirt and mutter about life not being fair, though.
I quite like 10.1.5, and I'll stick with it for the time being. If 10.2 offers real improvements on my iBook (such as speed, especially of the Finder, and Quicktime) then I may upgrade sometime later this year (unless 10.3 is around the corner). Of course, I may buy a new computer next year, so I might just wait until then. There are many other items howling for my money at the moment, and Jaguar can wait.
When the question of whether or not to spring for OSX was raised on these boards, I always advised people to take what they got with their new systems or else wait for the real thing to come out. From a speed standpoint OSX.2 might actually be the first real release of a properly useable (lag free response) OSX. But from the perspective of new features it is a different beast altogether. Rendezvous, iCal, iTunes3, Ink, Sherlock, mail, etc etc... It is a new OS. OS9 is very nearly ready to retire, finally. Jaguar is what (froma speed perspective) what OSX should have been from the beginning. Apple didn't force you to buy a beta OS (OSX) a second beta (OSX.0.x) or a final beta (OSX1.x). If you wanted the real thing, you should have waited for it.
[quote]You pay s&h for a minor upgrade, you download an update, and you pay $129 for a major upgrade (presumably $99 once the recession is over)
Barto[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
I don't think there's likely to be that 'minor upgrade = s&h' link that was made for 10.1... I don't think we have enough data yet to determine what the 'usual' policy will be. We have one x.y upgrade with upgrade price, and one without. Not enough data to predict a trend.
<strong>I have no problems with the price of Jaguar and .Mac, but this is for me. I upgraded already the two. BUT when i saw the price of Jaguar Server, I was very angry like everybody is now with Apple. This is Glove ????
I've paid 499$ one year ago for 10.1 Server (10 clients) and now I must to pay the same amount of money for what iI think is an upgrade. Just imagine the people who have bought Xserve Unlimited ! They must pay again 999$ !!! No way to upgrade !!! This is silly !
I think Apple just blow it with Jaguar and .Mac
This is the way I think things should be for the upgrade:
10.x -> Jaguar : 89$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (10 Clients): 299$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (Unlimited): 499$
.Mac -> E-Mail only -> 10$ a year
.Mac -> Same as iTools -> 29$ a year
.Mac -> Upgraded with iSync, Backup, etc -> 49$
Comments
Here's the basic crux of the full-price upgrade argument. Few people would bat an eyelash at the $129 price if it was an upgrade price, and the others who didn't own OSX had to pay more.
Given Apple's desire to get everyone over to the OSX platform doesn't a one-price-for-everyone structure make more sense in accomplishing this task?
Granted the $129 is a little steep, though--could have bumped it down to $99 and more peeps would be
I don't want to get into the semantics of 10.2 versus 10.5, but I will note that OS 9 software doesn't run natively under OS X. To me, that says that people going from 9 to 10 are getting a fully new operating system and should be paying for a full upgrade.
10.1 software, however, will still run on 10.2 natively (at least it better!). This sounds like a partial upgrade and it should be priced appropriately.
It seems to me that Apple is content to have its users run any version of OS X and they could care less which it is. Lets see how much they keep supporting 10.1.
As for paying twice for 10.0 or 10.1 and then again for 10.2. Well, I've been using 10.1 for a while now, and I'd say that I've got my moneys worth. When I think back, if somebody would have said... "Hey, I'll pay you $100 if you refuse to run OS X for a year" I would have declined the offer. So, OS X is worth it to me.
I've paid 499$ one year ago for 10.1 Server (10 clients) and now I must to pay the same amount of money for what iI think is an upgrade. Just imagine the people who have bought Xserve Unlimited ! They must pay again 999$ !!! No way to upgrade !!! This is silly !
I think Apple just blow it with Jaguar and .Mac
This is the way I think things should be for the upgrade:
10.x -> Jaguar : 89$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (10 Clients): 299$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (Unlimited): 499$
.Mac -> E-Mail only -> 10$ a year
.Mac -> Same as iTools -> 29$ a year
.Mac -> Upgraded with iSync, Backup, etc -> 49$
They just blow it
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: jeromba ]</p>
<strong> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Hello, development cost money. Who do you think pays for the power bills in Cupertino? Not Enron or WorldCom or Mr.Davis.
WE DO.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, then Apple's OS X development team must cost a lot more than, say Adobe's. Cause Adobe can apparently afford to give their loyal customers significant upgrade discounts.
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/store/main.jhtml"; target="_blank">http://www.adobe.com/store/main.jhtml</a>;
[quote]Originally posted by zaz:
<strong>Apple has never had UPGRADE prices for any OS. It was either free (+S/H) or $99. Now it is simply 129.00.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I seem to recall paying an upgrade price for 8.5, but I may be mistaken.
[quote]Originally posted by warpd:
<strong>I think a distinction needs to be made...Apple never charges $149.00 for "updates". Updates to the OS are always free (10.1-10.1.5...) Yesterday, if you were to go to the Apple store, and look for an "upgrade" from 10.04 to 10.1 it would have cost you $149.00. That is Apple's price for the full version of the OS. When you pay that for 10.2, you will get a full version of the OS, not just an update CD.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hello? And why would I need a full install CD when I already have my original 10.1 disc? This is exactly what I'm talking about, Apple is billing me for sh!t that I don't need in order to get the sh!t that I DO need... I couldn't care less about Inkwell (don't have a tablet), the new Address book, Quartz Extreme (since my graphics card ain't supported), Zoom (I'm not vision-impaired), iChat (I don't use chat apps), Rendezvous, Watson (I don't live in the U.S) but I do need a fast, stable & bug-free OS with a file-browser that doesn't hang or stall every five minutes. And these are the features I will be paying for, not to finally get the "finished" OS which I will now have to pay FULL PRICE TWICE for.
THIS... IS... BULL$H!T...
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: Whyatt Thrash ]</p>
be glad you don't have to upgrade server. its $999
no upgrade pricing there either.
Can you imagine those people who have purchased the Xserve ?
And that's a whole lot!
<strong>"Jaguar"? More like PUSSY. Can I justify upgrading from 10.1.>
Lets take those super cool "new" features....
iChat - pretty interface, pretty useless.
check out MSN Messenger 3.0 Mac.
It does exactly what it says on the box.
Mail - Hmmm, I can get most of what I need
with Hotmail, Yahoo etc.
Address Book - Sorry, dont need it.
Sherlock 3 - Google Rocks!
QuickTime 6 - Now this has potential! Just wish more on-line streaming content providers used QuickTime instead of Real/WMP etc..
Finder - Pretty good.
Rendezvous - Very nice if your in business, otherwise <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Quartz Extreme - Nice but not essential.
Inkwell - Sorry, don't have a graphics tablet and don't need one.
Unix - The only thing I'm "Developing" is a headache.
Compatibility - The more compatible us Mac users can get with the dreaded "wintel" the better for us all.
Universal Access - Good, but should have been in previous versions.
...all said and done, its not bad but then for a full price upgrade, its not good either.
Apple, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Give us previous X users a proper discount or you may just have a warehouse full of "Jaguar" CD roms to shift as well as outdated hardware. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
You're kidding right? You just said Jaguar stinks because "I say it does" Save your rhetoric for yourself your opinions about Jaguar are only as strong as your desire to refuse to purchase it. Should you do that more power too you but subjective information like the above is nothing someone can make a rationale decision on.
[quote] If the price is right more consumers will jump on the band wagon. Apple has to remember that the downturn in economy is also hurting the consumers pockets. To coax them to get their wallets out, you have to offer something within their price range. <hr></blockquote>
Movies like Spider Man and Star wars open to sales of 100 Million in a weekend. That's a very poor excuse. Consumers are spending money and Apple shouldn't be taking less. They have employees to pay. The upgrade price is fair. People will either purchase or they won't.
<strong>everybody should quit whining about $129 bucks.
be glad you don't have to upgrade server. its $999
no upgrade pricing there either.
Can you imagine those people who have purchased the Xserve ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mentality is not the same. Companies praise stability over everything else. If you had a company running on 10.1 server you would simply wait and see just what real world benefits 10.2 offers, assess the impact to your company and client machines and Network and then make your upgrades after testing. That's what seperates companies from consumers ...they see a dollar value to being more efficient yet they will typically use rational judgment come to a conclusion.
The consumer simply flies off the handle and claims to not want to pay based on principal ..yet he/she wants the product.
<strong>As for paying twice for 10.0 or 10.1 and then again for 10.2. Well, I've been using 10.1 for a while now, and I'd say that I've got my moneys worth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Which just further goes to illustrate my point. You've used 10.1 for a while, you feel like you've gotten something of value, and you don't mind paying full price for the next release. I'm not averse to paying something, I'm just not ready to pay that much this soon. And the fact is that I can't find a compelling reason why Apple MUST accomodate me. The company's focus right now is on getting PC users to switch to Macs and on getting people running OS 9 (or earlier) to upgrade to OS X. Offering me an incentive to upgrade to 10.2 from 10.1.5 is like preaching to the choir. It would be nice, but I'm already a part of the flock, so it's kind of a waste of time. They know I'll buy it eventually...and they're right. But that doesn't mean that I can't kick at the dirt and mutter about life not being fair, though.
<strong>The fact that everyone is bitching about paying means that Apple has done a good job on developing something people want and need.
After all, if everyone were saying, "Well, I'll just stick with 10.1.5 for now, and see what happens," then I'd be worried.
Face it, we'll all pay because 10.2 is just that much better than 10.1.5.....
TING5</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhhh... Well, I'll just stick with 10.1.5 for now, and see what happens. Please don't worry.
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: stoneage ]</p>
The way I understand it, is that NeXT software used .1 as a major build but Apple used .5. Jaguar is still a major release. Get over it.
GET THE **** OVER IT!
even .x's are major upgardes, odd .x's are minor upgrades, .x.x's are updates.
You pay s&h for a minor upgrade, you download an update, and you pay $129 for a major upgrade (presumably $99 once the recession is over)
Barto
Apple has changed the version number scheme.
<hr></blockquote>
Yes.
[quote]GET THE **** OVER IT!<hr></blockquote>
Yes.
[quote]even .x's are major upgardes, odd .x's are minor upgrades, .x.x's are updates.<hr></blockquote>
Er, no. Close, but not quite. See <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001033"; target="_blank">here</a> at the end for a full explanation.
[quote]You pay s&h for a minor upgrade, you download an update, and you pay $129 for a major upgrade (presumably $99 once the recession is over)
Barto[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
I don't think there's likely to be that 'minor upgrade = s&h' link that was made for 10.1... I don't think we have enough data yet to determine what the 'usual' policy will be. We have one x.y upgrade with upgrade price, and one without. Not enough data to predict a trend.
<strong>I have no problems with the price of Jaguar and .Mac, but this is for me. I upgraded already the two. BUT when i saw the price of Jaguar Server, I was very angry like everybody is now with Apple. This is Glove ????
I've paid 499$ one year ago for 10.1 Server (10 clients) and now I must to pay the same amount of money for what iI think is an upgrade. Just imagine the people who have bought Xserve Unlimited ! They must pay again 999$ !!! No way to upgrade !!! This is silly !
I think Apple just blow it with Jaguar and .Mac
This is the way I think things should be for the upgrade:
10.x -> Jaguar : 89$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (10 Clients): 299$
10.x Server -> Jaguar Server (Unlimited): 499$
.Mac -> E-Mail only -> 10$ a year
.Mac -> Same as iTools -> 29$ a year
.Mac -> Upgraded with iSync, Backup, etc -> 49$
They just blow it
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: jeromba ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
without update price for server is too much... i hope they could make the change later, before 8/24.