New Apple TV uses USB-C for service, ditches optical audio out port

1456810

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 189
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,162member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Having to buy additional equipment is regress not progress.



    You do realize that none of the current competing devices have an optical port don’t you? The Roku doesn’t have one, nor does the Fire Stick, nor the Chromecast. 

     

    Your argument is old hat. The complaint is precisely the same one made when Apple abandoned earlier legacy ports over the decades...

     

    The floppy disk drive in the Bondi Blue iMac, the RS-232 port in favor of USB, the internal fax modem, the internal CD/DVD drive, Firewire for God’s sake, VGA, SVGA, SCSI and all the various display ports that have come and gone. You need ‘additional equipment’ to use any of those technologies on modern Macs and iOS devices. And don’t forget the single USB-C port on the new Macbook.

     

    As in the past the furor will die down, people will accept the future perhaps grudgingly. 

  • Reply 142 of 189
    lkrupp wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Having to buy additional equipment is regress not progress.


    You do realize that none of the current competing devices have an optical port don’t you? The Roku doesn’t have one, nor does the Fire Stick, nor the Chromecast. 

    Your argument is old hat. The complaint is precisely the same one made when Apple abandoned earlier legacy ports over the decades...

    The floppy disk drive in the Bondi Blue iMac, the RS-232 port in favor of USB, the internal fax modem, the internal CD/DVD drive, Firewire for God’s sake, VGA, SVGA, SCSI and all the various display ports that have come and gone. You need ‘additional equipment’ to use any of those technologies on modern Macs and iOS devices. And don’t forget the single USB-C port on the new Macbook.

    As in the past the furor will die down, people will accept the future perhaps grudgingly. 

    The Roku still has RCA ports (how's that for old?). I have one with just the audio hooked up to a sound bar.
  • Reply 143 of 189
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,162member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    The Roku still has RCA ports (how's that for old?). I have one with just the audio hooked up to a sound bar.

     

    I looked before I posted.



    The Roku 1 has RCA stereo and composite video but NO optical port and is recommended for older TVs. If you want digital audio it’s HDMI only. The Roku 2 and 3 have only HDMI. None of the USB stick products have optical ports. Only certain Tivo models still have optical, the Amazon Fire TV does and that’s about it. Look, the handwriting is on the wall for the optical port.

     

    Apple has made its decision. You will need to make yours. Has Apple ever recanted and brought back a legacy port? Not to my knowledge it hasn’t. Dongles yes, ports no. There’s not much to argue about here. 

     

    I will buy the ATV4 the day it is available. I’ll unplug the power and HDMI cords from my ATV3 and plug ‘em into the ATV4 and I’m done. HDMI->Optical converters are widely available just like any other dongle. End of story.

  • Reply 144 of 189
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JBDragon View Post

     

     

    What?????  NO, YOU ARE WRONG!!!!  HDMI carries both Digital Video and up to 7.1 Digital Surround sound!!!   There is a older standard called DVI.  it's the same Digital Signal, but Video only.  So you could for example plug a HDMI to DVI cable into a old HDTV that only had DVI, and then needed another connection for the Audio.

     

    HDMI had BOTH!!!  If you have a Surround sound Receiver with HDMI In ports, You plug all your devices into that using HDMI and that's it!!!!!  Then a single HDMI cable from the receiver to your HDTV.  The Receiver takes the Audio it's getting from the HDMI and outputs it to the speakers connected to it.  The HDTV's speaker you just turn OFF!!!


    Nope, I looked at the instructions again this morning.  It is HDMI - in fact the Pioneer receiver has it printed right on top that it is capable of HDMI.  The audio channel gets passed through if you want, but what is the point of that when you want the receiver to provide surround sound.  For that you have to use separate audio-in.  

     

    I do wish you were right, because that is what I though I was buying at the time.

  • Reply 145 of 189
    larrya wrote: »
    aaarrrgggh wrote: »
    Ditching optical out is a logical step. The future is things like Sonos Playbar rather than a dedicated receiver.

    The 10/100 Ethernet and lack of 4k do surprise me though and this price point.

    Sonos uses...wait for it...a single optical cable.

    Right... but their recommended installation procedure is to hook the optical cable to the TV output and not to any component.
  • Reply 146 of 189
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    The Roku still has RCA ports (how's that for old?). I have one with just the audio hooked up to a sound bar.



    My audio systems still use RCA ports and only have provision for analogue inputs. :-)

     

     

    The TV is more modern and has HDMI inputs though.

  • Reply 147 of 189
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,532member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post



    Worst product update ever. Siri on the new Apple TV is basically just a virtual salesperson who helps you search for new content to buy. The games look especially lame. What would have made this worthwhile is a browser and support for a Bluetooth keyboard. But instead, the new features are mostly about new ways to get you to spend money.



    Isn't your WebTV from 1999 still working...?

     

    There are (many) reasons why a browser on the TV has been tried for 15+ years, but never caught on.  And another interesting tidbit is that with the explosion in mobile broadband, smartphones and iPad tablets - more "Internet" viewing and usage occurs within an app now vs. through a browser.  Welcome to the post-PC world of Steve Jobs...

  • Reply 148 of 189
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,532member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

    ...

    You do realize that none of the current competing devices have an optical port don’t you? The Roku doesn’t have one, nor does the Fire Stick, nor the Chromecast. 


    No one ever considers the competition's offer when it comes time to take a strip off of Apple's hide.

     

    While I don't personally use the optical port, I do wonder (in this case) just why Apple did it.  It wasn't the case (as perhaps with other examples you give) that they were slimming the product, or needing the space for something else. 

     

    I wonder if there is any content provider pressure to remove the port? As JBDragon pointed out, the optical out of TV is restricted for HDMI in sources, which comes from the content provider community wanting to limit any ability to copy content (audio or video).

  • Reply 149 of 189
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,532member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

    Then there are people, like me; that have a modern AV receiver that take their sources in as HDMI (HDMI from PS4, HDMI from XBOne, HDMI from DishNetwork and HDMI from AppleTV) and let the receiver do all the heavy lifting. It makes cabling so much cleaner and easier.

    Yeah, I made the change a few years back when I got a new projector unit.  Updated my receiver to HDMI (not that expensive) and by then had all HDMI sources, at the same times as I purchased the ?TV.  So no issue for me, but I never had the unit setup to streaming music.  I stream from iOS devices via BT to audio systems in the house.

  • Reply 150 of 189
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brucemc View Post

     

    I wonder if there is any content provider pressure to remove the port? As JBDragon pointed out, the optical out of TV is restricted for HDMI in sources, which comes from the content provider community wanting to limit any ability to copy content (audio or video).


     

     

    That's what I'm thinking. Apple is getting to music big time. The AppleTV will surely be used to play a part in expanding AppleMusic and iTunes. They could for instance, stream exclusive video footage of artist in live concerts to their subscribers. And to prevent easy HD quality recording of such streams, Apple eliminates the optical port and forces all audio out through a HDMI cable that is loaded with HDCP. No one here has tried the HDMI splitter on the new AppleTV yet. New HDCP can render that box useless for splitting out the digital audio. It could downgrade the audio to stereo if it's detected or not pass the audio at all. They could also choose to apply these kind of restrictions only for certain copyrighted contents. HDCP (or the lack of it) is one of the main reason why perfectly functional equipment becomes obsolete. Even older HDMI cables.     

     

    I don't think an Apple TV will ever output DTS-HD or Digital DolbyHD in lossless form.  And right now, the only source for those formats is on a BluRay or HD-DVD disc. Nearly all other audio standards can be outputted on an optical port. I can see a BlueRay player eliminating the optical port as it's truly obsolete on it. And even then, not all BlueRay movies have DTS-HD or Digital DolbyHD encoding. Plus, BluRay players are also DVD and CD players. But an optical port on an AppleTV won't be obsolete for quite a while as nearly all internet streaming audio, except stereo, are compressed. Unless Apple is going to do the unimaginable and let you stream contents from an external media server you have hooked in to the new USB-C port. :smokey: 

  • Reply 151 of 189
    Well firstly I was very excited to know that there will be new Apple TV, but got disappointed straight away finding that it does not have Optical audio port at the back. Well at the moment I play my music on my iPhone through my Bose speakers through Air Play. All I have to do is select AirPlay on my iPhone and turn on the music system. It automatically turns on the Apple TV and starts playing music through the Bose speakers. I really love this setup and wish to continue to use it. Not having Optical audio port is the only drawback for me not to go for the new Apple TV
  • Reply 152 of 189

    Any good mid priced $500 and up receiver has had HDMI input for a while now.  I bought my Denon 3-4 years ago came with 4 HDMI inputs.  The reasoning with this is bluray movies output HD uncompressed sound which has too much bandwidth for the optical cable.  and it supports 7.1 and higher channels.  Optical is from the DVD era which uses compressed "mp3 quality" sound for the 5.1 and 6.1 movie tracks as does movies on the apple TV.  The difference is noticeable.  I've jumped back in forth between the uncompressed and compressed soundtracks and it sounds very different on a good 7.1 surround speaker set-up.  I usually buy comedies and drama's on the apple TV and reserve the blu-ray purchases for the big sound action movies. I like the HDMI route since it keeps the cable clutter on the receiver below the TV with the speaker wires and allows only one HDMI cable up to the TV for picture output.  All the playstation, apple TV and whatever else to just plug into the receiver and you just switch back and forth with the receiver remote.

  • Reply 153 of 189

    No he is right there was a era when HD bluray audio was just coming into the scene around 2007-2008.  I bought a $900 pioneer elite stereo back then in the transition era and it had HDMI input but the audio was passthrough only meaning you had to have the HDMI for the HD video going to the projector and optical cable going from the playstation to the receiver for the audio.  This of course only gave you compressed dvd quality 5.1 audio tracks. You had to pay over $1200 for the next  pioneer elite model up that had the HD decoder for the audio out.  Wasn't too happy with pioneer for doing this after I wanted to add more speakers for a 7.1 HD setup rather than the 5.1 several years later.  Besides this being a elite brand and heavy as hell the 3 optical connectors all went bad after 2 years so it's just a stereo heavyweight now with no surround capabilities.  I went with Denon later in 2011 and am much happier and the price was much cheaper for the quality jump.

  • Reply 154 of 189
    rwesrwes Posts: 170member
    I was a little disappointed initially with the removal of the optical port.

    As some have pointed out, who knows if it is to force all output over a connection which can protect content. It would be very easy to record a good quality copy of content made available exclusively via Apple Music and share, if not protected.

    I currently have a tv with optical out to a sound bar. I also have optical out from my Apple TV to the sound bar which, like others, I liked because I didn't have to use the tv when listening to audio (soundbar has two optical in ports). Luckily though, all my Tv's allow for the display to be turned off (while the tv is still on). I think a lot of newer Tv's allow for this; my circa 2012 and later LG's all do. That'll have to be my solution... I'm one of those weird people who has a tv in the bedroom and sometimes when I have difficulty sleeping, I'll put on a movie I've watched plenty of times before, set the sleep timer and turn the display off (so the room is dark). Like I said, weird.

    Also, I read through all the comments and unless I missed it, I wanted to ask if anyone knows what kind of USB to lightning cable is included with the Apple TV. Is it USB-C to lightning, so that the service port on the back of the Apple TV could charge the remote?
  • Reply 155 of 189
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chadbag View Post



    To keep to a specific price point they have to balance features vs. cost. Those features deemed to be ones not used by a reasonable subset of users are likely to get axed as they decide which trade-offs to make. Optical out usage is probably not used that much any more (compared to the volume of users/devices).

    It's typical of Apple.  They decide what features you need, and that's it.  I'm guessing they tracked the numbers of users who actually used the optical port and found it not worth keeping.  That being said, I would like to keep using mine so I will not be buying this.  I'm feeling that way about many new products.  I like ports.  I don't like dongles.

  • Reply 156 of 189
    dizneedave wrote: »
    It's typical of Apple.  They decide what features you need, and that's it.

    That's typical of all companies. They decide what they're going to offer. It is, after all, their company, not yours. If you feel there is a gap in the market you have the right to create your own company that will fill that gap. Good luck.
  • Reply 157 of 189
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,097member

    I should mention that the article is incorrect.  YOU DON'T CONNECT HEADPHONES TO AN OPTICAL OUT PORT unless the headphones are optical headphones.

     

    Apple uses a dual purposed jack that has the optical port and the analog headphone port in the same jack, so you do use the same physical port but the headphones has nothing to do with the lack of optical out support.

     

    They could have removed the optical out and left a headphone jack if they wanted to. 

  • Reply 158 of 189
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    chadbag wrote: »
    I should mention that the article is incorrect.  YOU DON'T CONNECT HEADPHONES TO AN OPTICAL OUT PORT unless the headphones are optical headphones.

    Apple uses a dual purposed jack that has the optical port and the analog headphone port in the same jack, so you do use the same physical port but the headphones has nothing to do with the lack of optical out support.

    They could have removed the optical out and left a headphone jack if they wanted to. 

    Yeah that was confusing.
  • Reply 159 of 189
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    I also heard this thing won't have a floppy disc drive!! :O
  • Reply 160 of 189
    bbhbbh Posts: 76member

    I suspect Apple knows what they are doing. They usually do. 

Sign In or Register to comment.