Apple's 'Project Titan' car initiative negatively impacting Tesla's product development, source says

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  • Reply 61 of 110
    mgzmgz Posts: 26member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     

    Actually my current daily driver is a BMW 550i. It's very fast, but still way behind a Model S in 0-60 or 1.4 mile. The big difference is this car will be fast all day where the Model S will reduce power due to overheating batteries, motors and controllers after a short period of spirited driving. That's why Tesla advertises 0-60 runs, but never puts the Model S on a track. It wouldn't even make one lap before slowing down.


     

    Next time I need to race my car on a track, I'll give it some thought. ;-)

     

    Quote:


    Outside of the blistering acceleration I find the rest of the car ho-hum. Average equipment level and the touchscreen dash is an ergonomics nightmare.


     

    I had a few quibbles with some behavior in the dash, but after driving the car on a 600-mile road trip, was very pleasantly surprised. If there is a better in-car UX right now, I'd like to see it. The functionality that can be easily tapped into with Tesla's screens (both the 17" as well as what they're using over the steering wheel) is incredibly impressive. My guess is only Apple will have a chance of matching it in the meantime. Most car companies seem to have no problem outsourcing key components of their UI, surprisingly.

     

    Quote:

    [The doors] are overly complex and expensive to solve a problem people weren't complaining about. I predict lots of warranty issues with these doors when the Model X finally launches.

     

    Maybe, and based on Tesla's track record, I imagine the customer service related to any problems will be quite good. 

     

    As for no one complaining about what they solve, I'm guessing you don't have a small garage or a family of any size. Getting in and out of third row seats is a total PITA in every large car I've ever been in, especially for adults.

     

    Quote:


    Model S is not luxury. It's missing loads of features other cars at that price range has. As I mentioned above, I currently drive a 550i. As a luxury car it's way ahead of a Model S in terms of features. There are sub $40K cars these days that can match the Model S for features (including things like lane departure, active cruise control, automatic braking when detecting objects, blind spot warning and all those other features Tesla brags about like they're supposed to be high tech).


     

    They are preparing to roll out their next software enhancements to Autopilot, for existing Model S cars that came with the sensors (shipping since Nov 2014 I think), which should include advanced cruise control, now capable of actually following the lanes for you (not just lane departure warnings), as well as self-parking features, both parallel parking, as well as parking itself in your garage. 

     

    Which luxury cars are offering these features?

     

    Entering a driveway or area where more clearance is required, it's easy to adjust the Model S's suspension to raise or lower as needed. Yeah, not that big of a deal. But it remembers all the places you do this, and when you're approaching/leaving those places, it automatically does it for you. 

     

     

    Also, define luxury features. I find that Tesla is focusing on "technical luxury," whereas you may be thinking of traditional car luxuries. For example, I can drive across large parts of the US without paying for gas or electricity, using high-speed Superchargers. The car has the capability to have the battery pack swapped out automatically in about 1 minute, and Tesla is working to bring the technique mainstream at their Supercharger stations. They're working on home charging technology that can automatically plug itself into your car to begin the charging. 

     

    These are luxuries as well. I'm not aware of other car companies working on or offering anything similar at this time. 

  • Reply 62 of 110
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

     

    Though Tesla "training" a lot of engineers is a bit of a stretch. He didn'T invent the electric motor in cars after all.... Almost all car makers already have pretty big team doing hybrids in house.


     

    Fair enough, but apparently the team Tesla built has at least enough unique skills that Apple is willing to pay a premium for them. (Assuming any of the various rumors flying about are true).

  • Reply 63 of 110
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,028member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post





    Your response is worthy of Samsung! Please do not waste my time!!

     

     <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    Alright, it's pretty clear what we're dealing with here.

  • Reply 64 of 110
    Great! Both BMW and APPLE are well known for their affordable products.
  • Reply 65 of 110
    paul94544 wrote: »

    I find your comment very insulting. I own a Prius and I am a vegetarian. I demand an apology

    Well why don't you just drive your little pod clown car down to the store and buy some recycled tissue to dry your tears? Why should anyone waste time worrying about the thin skin of a remorseless plant killer? It's been proven scientifically that vegetables feel pain just like animals, and the fact that you sickos would harm a defenseless kale plant over a resource destroying cow sickens me.

    And please keep to the right with slower traffic, the Prius has incredibly poor visibility, poor acceleration and below par aerodynamics. Prius drivers are perhaps the single worst drivers on the road, slightly edging out the white Lexus crowd. In California the chaos created from these idiots trying to get left across several lanes to abuse carpool lanes has become an epidemic.
  • Reply 66 of 110
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mgz View Post

     

    Those doors are extremely functional: They allow you much easier access to the rear two rows of seats (due to the headroom they provide). And they can fully open in a tight garage. Minivans only provide half that equation with sliding doors.


     

    Actually, I had already talked to one of the Tesla employee about the wing doors on Model X. Yes, it is very functional, especially in tight garage (which might not be the case for the targeted buyers), but it only addresses the issues for the second row (which as you suggested has been handled by sliding doors). What about the front doors? It still swings out - so it defeats the intend. Of course Tesla could modify the interior the big - revolving front seats so people can exit from behind.

  • Reply 67 of 110
    LOL! Why does that rendering of the Apple car look like a Datsun from the late 60s??

    And isn't it a little rude to use an artist's "poor" rendering, while insulting it at the same time? If it's so bad (which it is) why use it?
  • Reply 68 of 110
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post





    I think Musk is quite brilliant.

     

    Until he makes a buck, a lot of them... He's not. He's closer to early Jobs than the more pragmatic later Jobs.




    So a person's intelligence is directly tied to how much money they make?  Are you serious?  Not to mention the fact that he has already made an enormous amount of money.  Ever heard of PayPal?  Wow!

  • Reply 69 of 110
    irelandireland Posts: 17,779member
    starxd wrote: »
    LOL! Why does that rendering of the Apple car look like a Datsun from the late 60s??

    And isn't it a little rude to use an artist's "poor" rendering, while insulting it at the same time? If it's so bad (which it is) why use it?

    The car isn't the mockup. The garage is:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_021C
  • Reply 70 of 110
    irelandireland Posts: 17,779member
    foggyhill wrote: »
    Until he makes a buck, a lot of them... He's not.

    'Red, I do believe you're talking out of your ass.'

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/spacex-profitable-as-musk-pulls-in-nasa-contracts-google-cash
  • Reply 71 of 110
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member

    I work in the automotive industry and am quite familiar with the technology used in modern cars.

    Tesla has no future. Once battery technology improves they will be steamrolled by BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and GM. Tesla has no technology that others can't duplicate with ease. And the other manufacturers have an order of magnitude more experience with manufacturing cars in production quantities.

    Tesla is doomed!
  • Reply 72 of 110
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,716member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     

     

    I work in the automotive industry and am quite familiar with the technology used in modern cars.

     

    Tesla has no future. Once battery technology improves they will be steamrolled by BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and GM. Tesla has no technology that others can't duplicate with ease. And the other manufacturers have an order of magnitude more experience with manufacturing cars in production quantities.


    I agree with you completely.

     

    This has always been the case, but it has been masked by the market niche that Tesla has developed for (the same demographics as Prius buyers, but the high end) and the media attention that has kept them alive. I agree with you that all the major players are in a better position overall than Tesla once current technology batteries are available in volume and at lower prices.

     

    I would add that I think it is a mistake for Tesla to enter the lower end of the EV market; they won't have much in the way of sales volume, nor margins and they don't have the scale available to match the costs that one of the majors sees. 

  • Reply 73 of 110

     Quote:





    Originally Posted by JoshA View Post



    I haven't been able to sit in a Tesla.

    The Tesla at our auto show last spring was locked and sitting by itself.

    I don't know where the dealer is or if we even have one.

    All I know is we order it online then hope we don't need service.


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post



    You can blame the unions for that. They've blocked Tesla in most states.



     


    Umm, nope. Unions had nothing to do with it. You're getting confused. It's the car dealership groups that have opposed direct sales by Tesla.


  • Reply 74 of 110

    So what do you have in your 550I?  Why didn't you mention those features in your original post?

  • Reply 75 of 110
    paul94544 wrote: »

    I find your comment very insulting. I own a Prius and I am a vegetarian. I demand an apology

    Huge difference between vegetarian and vegan. Ergo, he did not insult your taste in food. Stop being so touchy.

    The Prius part, in the other hand......
  • Reply 76 of 110
    mgzmgz Posts: 26member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

     

     

    Actually, I had already talked to one of the Tesla employee about the wing doors on Model X. Yes, it is very functional, especially in tight garage (which might not be the case for the targeted buyers), but it only addresses the issues for the second row (which as you suggested has been handled by sliding doors). What about the front doors? It still swings out - so it defeats the intend. Of course Tesla could modify the interior the big - revolving front seats so people can exit from behind.




    I am not sure why you think it only addresses the issue for the second row. It also makes it much easier to access the third row seating. If you watch the introduction video of the prototype, you can see full size adults walking out of the back row.

     

    There are two big headaches getting into and out of a car:

     

    1. Getting into and out of the third row seating of any car that offers it (falcon doors alleviate these issues due to increased headroom as you're entering the vehicle).

     

    2. Getting child seats into and out of 2nd and 3rd row seats. This is why the front doors opening out are not a big deal... you don't need to fit a child seat through them, just a regular adult. So not having a lot of room to open the door doesn't matter. But it does matter for rear entry, which is why sliding doors (and falcon doors) come in handy in the rear.

     

    The main takeaway here is the falcon doors are not just for show, they improve upon the accessibility that sliding doors offer.

  • Reply 77 of 110
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post





    'Red, I do believe you're talking out of your ass.'



    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/spacex-profitable-as-musk-pulls-in-nasa-contracts-google-cash

     

    Talk out of your own god damn ass, space x is not going to finance is car business anytime. I'm putting you on ignore now because of many moronic things you said.

  • Reply 78 of 110
    mgz wrote: »
    I mean Tesla announced the Model X......

    Of course, it's in the eyes of the beholder, but the styling of the X is surprisingly Fordesque and pedestrian. For $140K, I would expect something more stylish.
  • Reply 79 of 110
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by afrodri View Post

     

     

    Fair enough, but apparently the team Tesla built has at least enough unique skills that Apple is willing to pay a premium for them. (Assuming any of the various rumors flying about are true).


     

    Well, we don't know if Apple's been poaching engineers from other car makers, maybe it shows less because it's more diffuse.

     

    You forgot that Tesla is just next door, so poaching from them is much easier than going to poach people in Japan, Germany and having them move. That explains Apple going for Tesla's employee (and anyone else already in the US), much more than their mere competence could.

  • Reply 80 of 110
    numba1 wrote: »
    So what do you have in your 550I?  Why didn't you mention those features in your original post?

    I assume this is directed at me. I have 4 zone climate control (Tesla has only 2 zone), heads-up display, superior heated & cooled ventilated seats, an all around camera system (Tesla is rear only) and soft close doors (to name a few). And my car uses the navigation and elevation changes to conserve energy (by altering things like your alternator charging rate or A/C compressor load). Something that should be mandatory on electrics/hybrids yet all they do is keep track of acceleration, coasting and braking to conserve energy. The Model S "sort of" added something similar in their last update regarding range anxiety (where it finds charging stations for you that are within range). However, BMW has had this for a couple years, and even on lower priced hybrids like the 3 Series.
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