I am not sure why you think it only addresses the issue for the second row. It also makes it much easier to access the third row seating. If you watch the introduction video of the prototype, you can see full size adults walking out of the back row.
There are two big headaches getting into and out of a car:
1. Getting into and out of the third row seating of any car that offers it (falcon doors alleviate these issues due to increased headroom as you're entering the vehicle).
2. Getting child seats into and out of 2nd and 3rd row seats. This is why the front doors opening out are not a big deal... you don't need to fit a child seat through them, just a regular adult. So not having a lot of room to open the door doesn't matter. But it does matter for rear entry, which is why sliding doors (and falcon doors) come in handy in the rear.
The main takeaway here is the falcon doors are not just for show, they improve upon the accessibility that sliding doors offer.
Fine. The wing door is good for the 3rd row (I wasn't sure if Model X has one.) Anyway, the 3rd row is irrelevant in what I mentioned above. I was referring to the 1st row (Driver + Passenger) and having a regular swing door and that defeats the reasoning of having the wing door in tight garage space.
You mean like making "insanely great" cars? Sounds like Steve jobs. Practicality sounds more like John Sculley.
Insanely great? When you can do 0-60 a couple of times fast before the car slows down? A "super fast" car that can't even be used for a track day on the weekend because it'll never survive a single lap? A "luxury" car that's missing features cares half its price has?
I swear, people who drive the Model S and think it's great are so overcome with the acceleration and the connection between your right foot and vehicle performance they forget about the rest of the car. This is how the big 3 in the US managed to sell so many muscle cars over the years. People get so hooked on the power they don't realize just how average the rest of the car is. That or they've never actually driven any other high-end car to realize the things they come equipped with that the Model S lacks.
Steve Jobs is practical. He wanted devices that "just work" without being over complicated. If you make a device that provides a great user experience how is that not practical?
Tesla is an amazing brand name. It refers to Tesla, the visionary inventor of the electric age. However (speaking about Tesla the company), its mobility future clearly is not with Human Controlled Electric Cars. They stand no chance if Porsche's full electric concept car is going to materialise at the turn of this decade:
Tesla needs Apple badly to design the real mobility Revolution: Self Driving Electric Cars. It is where the traditional car manufacturers feel clueless (software + hardware + internet).
Fine. The wing door is good for the 3rd row (I wasn't sure if Model X has one.) Anyway, the 3rd row is irrelevant in what I mentioned above. I was referring to the 1st row (Driver + Passenger) and having a regular swing door and that defeats the reasoning of having the wing door in tight garage space.
Re-read my point 2. Getting into the front seats in a tight space is not difficult. Getting into rear seats with child car seats in a tight space IS. That's where sliding doors (and falcon) come in handy.
Insanely great? When you can do 0-60 a couple of times fast before the car slows down? A "super fast" car that can't even be used for a track day on the weekend because it'll never survive a single lap? A "luxury" car that's missing features cares half its price has?
I swear, people who drive the Model S and think it's great are so overcome with the acceleration and the connection between your right foot and vehicle performance they forget about the rest of the car. This is how the big 3 in the US managed to sell so many muscle cars over the years. People get so hooked on the power they don't realize just how average the rest of the car is. That or they've never actually driven any other high-end car to realize the things they come equipped with that the Model S lacks.
Steve Jobs is practical. He wanted devices that "just work" without being over complicated. If you make a device that provides a great user experience how is that not practical?
Here's Audi's next entry, but it's going to be a very crowded field, not even throwing in the hybrids.
I work in the automotive industry and am quite familiar with the technology used in modern cars.
Tesla has no future. Once battery technology improves they will be steamrolled by BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and GM. Tesla has no technology that others can't duplicate with ease. And the other manufacturers have an order of magnitude more experience with manufacturing cars in production quantities.
I tend to agree. Tesla took mature but simple battery tech (Panasonic laptop cells) to fabricate their battery packs and get a good start on the market. As far as I know, no other major manufacturer goes this route (they all use medium/large format cells for their battery packs). Thus far, economies of scale (for the laptop cells) have helped Tesla get going, and presumably IMO their Gigafactory will continue to use the Panasonic laptop cells.
Once the economies of scale catch up for the larger cells, the major manufacturers will surpass Tesla. BMW's purpose-built (for EV use) carbon fiber "frame" of the i3 and i8 seems to be the way to go (not sure what Audi has). That type of design/supply chain isn't cultivated overnight and probably caught Apple's eye (if the rumors of BMW collaboration are true).
So what is so special that Apple wants to achieve in automotive industry that all car makers do not know yet?
You know if your life is 20 miles away from office (and you live for the job and groceries you ned to buy) then perhaps you should buy yourself some electric toy. If your life horizons are wider than that then think twice.
For the record, BMW had much more superior solution based on older technology yet way cleaner - hydrogen cars. The best and cheapest way to store energy that can be transported just like traditional fuels.
Electric can be to go if it has better (longer) storage more capacity (hundreds of miles) and it can be coming from more reasonable sources than power outlet at some designated point only charging for long hours.
So what is so special that Apple wants to achieve in automotive industry that all car makers do not know yet?
You know if your life is 20 miles away from office (and you live for the job and groceries you ned to buy) then perhaps you should buy yourself some electric toy. If your life horizons are wider than that then think twice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt
We need one more manufacturer in space of impractical toys for their pundits. Apple go for it.
What is exciting about the ? car is that they will change the game. And if not Apple, than Google will.
Seriously, we are at the advent of a Mobility Revolution. Forget Car ownership. The Self Driving Connected Car is going to disrupt multiple industries at once.
I agree with you that Human Controlled Electric Cars are just another gimmick. I'd be very disappointed if Apple would go down that road ...
I find your comment very insulting. I own a Prius and I am a vegetarian. I demand an apology
Apology for what? I admire vegetarians and Prius as well, just Tesla isn't target marketing to you. They are targeting Mercedes, Porsche and BMW sports car drivers like me who tend to be a somewhat extravagant, not sensible normal people like you.
I drove a Tesla a couple of months ago. For the money it is a lot of car but where I live.... totally impractical because there are next to no charging points and ... well you know the rest. The 0-60 time was not a selling point to me. Great to drive but for me it wss impractical.
I ended up with an Outlander PHEV. Yes it is a different vehicle but it does not suffer from the range limitation. 20+ miles on electric power. That beats the prius plus it has 4WD and where I live on the side of a steep hill is almost essential.
Now the hot Audi's and Beemers. Just as impractical on most roads as the Tesla IMHO. Sure you get great 0-60 times in an M3 etc but most people would not know how to drive them safely with all that power under their right foot. I've seen far too many wrapped around trees on tight bends so have any other opinion.
You do realize most Tesla owners charge in their own garage or place of residence 99% of the time. Availability of chargers around the city is moot. I've had a Model S for 2.5 years and I either charge at home or at superchargers when traveling. The biggest issue is for people that live in apartments with no charging options nearby.
Also, what is 'practical' is relative to available funds to spend.
Looking for a much needed charging station, then waiting a significant time for enough charge to move on is not luxury !
You don't look for...it's there in the dashboard. Besides, usually you would just top it off at home, because you would rarely run it fully out of battery, unless on a long commute, where the Superchargers give you plenty of juice to fill it quickly before heading on. Tesla is a electric car company and in the luxury category; so you are wrong.
When do people get that just because you can say "I'm the best" doesn't mean you are...you just state it, without backing it up with anything credible.
You do realize most Tesla owners charge in their own garage or place of residence 99% of the time. Availability of chargers around the city is moot. I've had a Model S for 2.5 years and I either charge at home or at superchargers when traveling. The biggest issue is for people that live in apartments with no charging options nearby.
Also, what is 'practical' is relative to available funds to spend.
Which is why I mentioned the lack of Tesla compatible chargers where I live. There is no network of superchargers. How do I travel beyond the range of the car then? Tow a trailer with a generator strapped to it? Seriously not cool.
Now the hot Audi's and Beemers. Just as impractical on most roads as the Tesla IMHO. Sure you get great 0-60 times in an M3 etc but most people would not know how to drive them safely with all that power under their right foot. I've seen far too many wrapped around trees on tight bends so have any other opinion.
Audis, Beemers, impractical? Really? You really made me get off my butt to create an account here so I could give you a reply, appropriately.
If Audis, Beemers are impractical, then Buicks and Cadillacs ATS/CTS and any other compact sport sedans to mid-size sedans are just as impractical. Plus you're statement really has a whiff of "auto-nationalism", where if it ain't 'murican, it's not exceptional.
And please, do tell us, how many audis and beemers have you actually seen wrapped around trees? I mean, you yourself. You probably confounded them with some Chevy Colorados and Ford Rangers.
Well why don't you just drive your little pod clown car down to the store and buy some recycled tissue to dry your tears? Why should anyone waste time worrying about the thin skin of a remorseless plant killer? It's been proven scientifically that vegetables feel pain just like animals, and the fact that you sickos would harm a defenseless kale plant over a resource destroying cow sickens me.
And please keep to the right with slower traffic, the Prius has incredibly poor visibility, poor acceleration and below par aerodynamics. Prius drivers are perhaps the single worst drivers on the road, slightly edging out the white Lexus crowd. In California the chaos created from these idiots trying to get left across several lanes to abuse carpool lanes has become an epidemic.
So a person's intelligence is directly tied to how much money they make? Are you serious? Not to mention the fact that he has already made an enormous amount of money. Ever heard of PayPal? Wow!
Your comment reveals about you that you don't really read history, much less to learn from it. Clearly the previous commenter was referring to something else, which "else" eluded your focus.
So what is so special that Apple wants to achieve in automotive industry that all car makers do not know
Hmm - sounds suspiciously like comments about the iPhone before and after it launched.
They obviously think they have something unique to bring if they are indeed working on something, and I concur with many of the possible things expressed elsewhere in this thread that they might be able to bring from a user experience perspective. Many things that really suck in traditional car buying and use today. Who likes their dealer? For buying or maintenance? I consider myself lucky that i have one I enjoy using and I prefer going to them, but that's easily the exception. Certainly not something I experienced in other cities I have lived in before.
Comments
You mean like making "insanely great" cars? Sounds like Steve jobs. Practicality sounds more like John Sculley.
I am not sure why you think it only addresses the issue for the second row. It also makes it much easier to access the third row seating. If you watch the introduction video of the prototype, you can see full size adults walking out of the back row.
There are two big headaches getting into and out of a car:
1. Getting into and out of the third row seating of any car that offers it (falcon doors alleviate these issues due to increased headroom as you're entering the vehicle).
2. Getting child seats into and out of 2nd and 3rd row seats. This is why the front doors opening out are not a big deal... you don't need to fit a child seat through them, just a regular adult. So not having a lot of room to open the door doesn't matter. But it does matter for rear entry, which is why sliding doors (and falcon doors) come in handy in the rear.
The main takeaway here is the falcon doors are not just for show, they improve upon the accessibility that sliding doors offer.
Fine. The wing door is good for the 3rd row (I wasn't sure if Model X has one.) Anyway, the 3rd row is irrelevant in what I mentioned above. I was referring to the 1st row (Driver + Passenger) and having a regular swing door and that defeats the reasoning of having the wing door in tight garage space.
>>>Musk makes stupid decisions with his cars.
You mean like making "insanely great" cars? Sounds like Steve jobs. Practicality sounds more like John Sculley.
Insanely great? When you can do 0-60 a couple of times fast before the car slows down? A "super fast" car that can't even be used for a track day on the weekend because it'll never survive a single lap? A "luxury" car that's missing features cares half its price has?
I swear, people who drive the Model S and think it's great are so overcome with the acceleration and the connection between your right foot and vehicle performance they forget about the rest of the car. This is how the big 3 in the US managed to sell so many muscle cars over the years. People get so hooked on the power they don't realize just how average the rest of the car is. That or they've never actually driven any other high-end car to realize the things they come equipped with that the Model S lacks.
Steve Jobs is practical. He wanted devices that "just work" without being over complicated. If you make a device that provides a great user experience how is that not practical?
Tesla is an amazing brand name. It refers to Tesla, the visionary inventor of the electric age. However (speaking about Tesla the company), its mobility future clearly is not with Human Controlled Electric Cars. They stand no chance if Porsche's full electric concept car is going to materialise at the turn of this decade:
Tesla needs Apple badly to design the real mobility Revolution: Self Driving Electric Cars. It is where the traditional car manufacturers feel clueless (software + hardware + internet).
Re-read my point 2. Getting into the front seats in a tight space is not difficult. Getting into rear seats with child car seats in a tight space IS. That's where sliding doors (and falcon) come in handy.
Insanely great? When you can do 0-60 a couple of times fast before the car slows down? A "super fast" car that can't even be used for a track day on the weekend because it'll never survive a single lap? A "luxury" car that's missing features cares half its price has?
I swear, people who drive the Model S and think it's great are so overcome with the acceleration and the connection between your right foot and vehicle performance they forget about the rest of the car. This is how the big 3 in the US managed to sell so many muscle cars over the years. People get so hooked on the power they don't realize just how average the rest of the car is. That or they've never actually driven any other high-end car to realize the things they come equipped with that the Model S lacks.
Steve Jobs is practical. He wanted devices that "just work" without being over complicated. If you make a device that provides a great user experience how is that not practical?
Here's Audi's next entry, but it's going to be a very crowded field, not even throwing in the hybrids.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/production-version-audi-q6-e-tron-quattro-cost-around-£60k
I'm not seeing an independent Tesla long term.
I work in the automotive industry and am quite familiar with the technology used in modern cars.
Tesla has no future. Once battery technology improves they will be steamrolled by BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and GM. Tesla has no technology that others can't duplicate with ease. And the other manufacturers have an order of magnitude more experience with manufacturing cars in production quantities.
I tend to agree. Tesla took mature but simple battery tech (Panasonic laptop cells) to fabricate their battery packs and get a good start on the market. As far as I know, no other major manufacturer goes this route (they all use medium/large format cells for their battery packs). Thus far, economies of scale (for the laptop cells) have helped Tesla get going, and presumably IMO their Gigafactory will continue to use the Panasonic laptop cells.
Once the economies of scale catch up for the larger cells, the major manufacturers will surpass Tesla. BMW's purpose-built (for EV use) carbon fiber "frame" of the i3 and i8 seems to be the way to go (not sure what Audi has). That type of design/supply chain isn't cultivated overnight and probably caught Apple's eye (if the rumors of BMW collaboration are true).
Um, no. Apple and Tesla are not going to "share" employees. They're competitors.
You know if your life is 20 miles away from office (and you live for the job and groceries you ned to buy) then perhaps you should buy yourself some electric toy. If your life horizons are wider than that then think twice.
For the record, BMW had much more superior solution based on older technology yet way cleaner - hydrogen cars. The best and cheapest way to store energy that can be transported just like traditional fuels.
Electric can be to go if it has better (longer) storage more capacity (hundreds of miles) and it can be coming from more reasonable sources than power outlet at some designated point only charging for long hours.
So what is so special that Apple wants to achieve in automotive industry that all car makers do not know yet?
You know if your life is 20 miles away from office (and you live for the job and groceries you ned to buy) then perhaps you should buy yourself some electric toy. If your life horizons are wider than that then think twice.
We need one more manufacturer in space of impractical toys for their pundits. Apple go for it.
What is exciting about the ? car is that they will change the game. And if not Apple, than Google will.
Seriously, we are at the advent of a Mobility Revolution. Forget Car ownership. The Self Driving Connected Car is going to disrupt multiple industries at once.
I agree with you that Human Controlled Electric Cars are just another gimmick. I'd be very disappointed if Apple would go down that road ...
I find your comment very insulting. I own a Prius and I am a vegetarian. I demand an apology
Apology for what? I admire vegetarians and Prius as well, just Tesla isn't target marketing to you. They are targeting Mercedes, Porsche and BMW sports car drivers like me who tend to be a somewhat extravagant, not sensible normal people like you.
I drove a Tesla a couple of months ago. For the money it is a lot of car but where I live.... totally impractical because there are next to no charging points and ... well you know the rest. The 0-60 time was not a selling point to me. Great to drive but for me it wss impractical.
I ended up with an Outlander PHEV. Yes it is a different vehicle but it does not suffer from the range limitation. 20+ miles on electric power. That beats the prius plus it has 4WD and where I live on the side of a steep hill is almost essential.
Now the hot Audi's and Beemers. Just as impractical on most roads as the Tesla IMHO. Sure you get great 0-60 times in an M3 etc but most people would not know how to drive them safely with all that power under their right foot. I've seen far too many wrapped around trees on tight bends so have any other opinion.
You do realize most Tesla owners charge in their own garage or place of residence 99% of the time. Availability of chargers around the city is moot. I've had a Model S for 2.5 years and I either charge at home or at superchargers when traveling. The biggest issue is for people that live in apartments with no charging options nearby.
Also, what is 'practical' is relative to available funds to spend.
Electric cars are not in the luxury category.
Looking for a much needed charging station, then waiting a significant time for enough charge to move on is not luxury !
You don't look for...it's there in the dashboard. Besides, usually you would just top it off at home, because you would rarely run it fully out of battery, unless on a long commute, where the Superchargers give you plenty of juice to fill it quickly before heading on. Tesla is a electric car company and in the luxury category; so you are wrong.
When do people get that just because you can say "I'm the best" doesn't mean you are...you just state it, without backing it up with anything credible.
You do realize most Tesla owners charge in their own garage or place of residence 99% of the time. Availability of chargers around the city is moot. I've had a Model S for 2.5 years and I either charge at home or at superchargers when traveling. The biggest issue is for people that live in apartments with no charging options nearby.
Also, what is 'practical' is relative to available funds to spend.
Which is why I mentioned the lack of Tesla compatible chargers where I live. There is no network of superchargers. How do I travel beyond the range of the car then? Tow a trailer with a generator strapped to it? Seriously not cool.
...
Now the hot Audi's and Beemers. Just as impractical on most roads as the Tesla IMHO. Sure you get great 0-60 times in an M3 etc but most people would not know how to drive them safely with all that power under their right foot. I've seen far too many wrapped around trees on tight bends so have any other opinion.
Audis, Beemers, impractical? Really? You really made me get off my butt to create an account here so I could give you a reply, appropriately.
If Audis, Beemers are impractical, then Buicks and Cadillacs ATS/CTS and any other compact sport sedans to mid-size sedans are just as impractical. Plus you're statement really has a whiff of "auto-nationalism", where if it ain't 'murican, it's not exceptional.
And please, do tell us, how many audis and beemers have you actually seen wrapped around trees? I mean, you yourself. You probably confounded them with some Chevy Colorados and Ford Rangers.
Well why don't you just drive your little pod clown car down to the store and buy some recycled tissue to dry your tears? Why should anyone waste time worrying about the thin skin of a remorseless plant killer? It's been proven scientifically that vegetables feel pain just like animals, and the fact that you sickos would harm a defenseless kale plant over a resource destroying cow sickens me.
And please keep to the right with slower traffic, the Prius has incredibly poor visibility, poor acceleration and below par aerodynamics. Prius drivers are perhaps the single worst drivers on the road, slightly edging out the white Lexus crowd. In California the chaos created from these idiots trying to get left across several lanes to abuse carpool lanes has become an epidemic.
You Sir, deserve a medal!
So a person's intelligence is directly tied to how much money they make? Are you serious? Not to mention the fact that he has already made an enormous amount of money. Ever heard of PayPal? Wow!
Your comment reveals about you that you don't really read history, much less to learn from it. Clearly the previous commenter was referring to something else, which "else" eluded your focus.
Hmm - sounds suspiciously like comments about the iPhone before and after it launched.
They obviously think they have something unique to bring if they are indeed working on something, and I concur with many of the possible things expressed elsewhere in this thread that they might be able to bring from a user experience perspective. Many things that really suck in traditional car buying and use today. Who likes their dealer? For buying or maintenance? I consider myself lucky that i have one I enjoy using and I prefer going to them, but that's easily the exception. Certainly not something I experienced in other cities I have lived in before.