For those who said buy a desktop and laptop, I like digitalandres reply with a $$$ = .
I'm not willing to shell out about 1.8k (good price for a win machine with monitor) when I can just spend 1k more and upgrade from an iBook to a PowerBook. Lets not forget, this thing should last me 4 years. Id rather spend a good amount now then little bits upgrading and selling later on.
One of the main reasons I can buy the PowerBook is that I have Office X FOR FREE from the uni and so save half a grand on that not including the many other OSX apps they have. If Had to buy Office X too, I would not even consider the PowerBook.
Here is a quick chart to compare all of the laptops that were brought up so far save the IBM thinkpad. All of the windows desktops use PC2100 DDR Ram and the weight for every machine includes the battery:
ALL PRICES ARE BEFORE EDUCATION DISCOUNT
TOSHIBA: SATELLITE PRO 6100
Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor - M4 @ 2000MHz (2.0GHz)
512MB PC2100 DDR
UXGA Active Matrix (1600 x 1200) 15"
NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go graphics controller w/32MB DDR external video memory
There you have it. Honestly I think its now between the VAIO GRX with the 16" screen and the Powerbook now although as you can see, its quite discouraging to see Apple compared to the Windows machines.
The memory performance on the Powerbook really won't be a great deal worse than the DDR used in the PC notebooks. The only real complaint I'd have is the screen resolution but that isn't too major.
Also don't forget the education discount for the Powerbook.
-- 60Gb hard drive (Inspiron and Toshiba have them though)
-- Gigabit Ethernet
-- 6 prong Firewire (as opposed to 4-prong ... extra two prongs are for power, so it will drain battery if your external device don't have it's own power)
-- 1280x854 resolution (I'm sorry, but squeezing 1600x1200 into a 15-16" screen is too tiny for me, 1600x1200 needs 19"+monitor ... and not using the native res of an LCD doesn't look as good too, so having a native res that works is good ... although I would like 1280x1024 res .. this is what I currently run at on my 19")
-- did I say more battery life yet ?
-- weights less
-- WiFi built-in (Toshiba has this too)
The Toshiba is the only one that comes close to the PowerBook, but the PowerBook is a little lighter and has longer battery life, which is good. (Toshiba doesn't have firewire though) The only thing that the others have on the TiBook is MHz, and we all know that there is more to proc design than MHz. Pipelines, page faults, memory bandwidth, MHz, branches, branch prediction, etc.
Consider joining the Apple Student Developer program ($99) and using the one-time hardware discount.
Q. I am a college student, but I am not yet 18 years of age. Can I still join the ADC Student Program?
A. You are required to be at least 18 years of age to join the ADC Student Program and to agree to the Terms and Conditions and Non-Disclosure Agreement attached to the ADC Student Program Membership. We have many community resources available for all student developers that do not require program membership.
Q. What is the Hardware discount?
A. ADC Student Members are eligible to receive a once-per-lifetime discount (approximately 20%) off the retail price on a single system of their choice. It will not show up as an asset in your ADC account. This offer is currently available in the U.S, Canada, Australia, and certain European countries (with online Apple Stores) only. For instructions on how to obtain your discount, please check out our Student Hardware Discount page. Make sure you follow the instructions exactly.
<strong>WOW, Skipjavk thanks for the info. Id gladly pay 100 bucks for a 20% (still shocked) discount!
Awesome</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is important to note that you must be in a class that has to do with hardware or software development. Apple requires proof of this, so if you are a business major, you can pretty much forget it (unless you are OMIS).
Here are my .02 on the issue. I am a senior business major right now, and I have decided to get a laptop. I presently have a G3 400 tower, and it has been wonderful. It still blows away PC's that were bought at the same time. I have not had a problem with haveing a desktop, but it has been inconvienient at times, especially when we have to write group papers. I think that a laptop is good for college, but not to take to class. I think that conventional note taking is much more efficient, as well as less distracting. It comes in handy for group work, as well as writing papers. It is very nice to not have to deal with the crappy PC's in the labs. Use it to plug into the schools network at the library, and you are set. Buy the POWERBOOK!!!
[quote]There isn't a damned thing wrong with Windows if you learn how to use it. WindowsXP is solid as a rock and fast.<hr></blockquote>
actually, the thing that's horribly wrong with Windows is that they now scan your HD and send all registration codes on your machine back to MS, for MS and non MS products. the fact that to use their updater you have to agree to let them install DRM tools on your machine without your consent or notification.
i'm sorry, but that's just plain ****ed up. i use Macs and PC's all the time, and have defended both often for what they're good at, but there is nothing that Windows can do that makes it worth sending that kind of crap back to MS, or allowing some asshole company to decided what i can and cannot listen to. it's bullshit.
now, back to the main topic.
digitalandres, .avi's and .divx files are a snap to run. download the application VLC and then double click the files. that's it. it's just a player.
as for using a Mac in a Business school, i graduated from the Madison School of Business not too long ago, and my using a Mac was never a problem. everything is basically Word and PowerPoint.
i did find it funny that almost all group projects ended up being done on my laptop since the other laptops weren't exactly stable enough trust our work to.
If you wanted something like that AlienWare then why not get a desktop?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I didn't tell her to buy it! Even thought it's big and hot, it's still a hell of a lot more portable than a desktop. I carry my iBook around wherever I go, just because it's convenient and very easy. She just wants to be able to take it with her when she goes home on weekends. She's an anti-mac bigot, so getting an iBook or PowerBook "isn't an option" for her.
Wow, I'm just the opposite, groverat. I think that having a laptop is essential in college/grad school. Getting out of your room once in a while, despite all the work you've got to do, is a Good Thing. You can't do that with a desktop and you can't do it so well with a huge laptop. Weight and battery life are two of the most important factors for a laptop. Other factors to consider are things like 802.11, speed and overall performance. I personally don't play many games on my computer, so that's really a moot point for me.
So, if your primary concern is playing games, get a PC. That's just the way it is. Although a PC laptop sacrifices too much in my opinion when it comes to the REAL reasons to get a portable. So, get a PC desktop. It would serve your needs best. If your primary concern is doing other stuff with your computer (like listening to music, creating stuff and *ahem* working), the iBook or Powerbook both win out. Plus, there's nothing like filching a little music over the wireless network at a coffeeshop or in the quad on a sunny day. And, chicks dig Macs. (at least the cool ones) You'll look like a big geek if you're laptop is thicker than your organic chemistry book; not what you want when being checked out.
I understand the desire for portability, but it's not like the 51m is a hulking beast.
It's 1.7" thick and weighs 9.6 lbs., not 3" thick and 20 lbs.
The Pismo was 1.7" thick and 6 lbs.
The original PBG3 was 2 inches thick and 7.8lbs.
Were those not real laptops?
I don't think it crosses the line into unmanageable. Maybe for my 115lb. girlfriend it might be an annoyance, but I could carry that thing in a backpack and forget it was there.
And I know that for a fact because I just got done helping the gf shopping for a laptop, the huge beast Gateway felt light to me. The original poster might want to check it out, btw, it's a groovy thing (<a href="http://www.gateway.com/work/prod/sb_600xlb_ProdDetail.shtml"; target="_blank">Gateway 600XL</a> - 15.7" screen, integrated 802.11b)
If I were to get one I'd have 2 batteries in it (no need for a CD drive when out and about), 2 hours and I can't think of many situations where I'd be without an outlet nearby for two hours, especially on my campus.
If a 4 lb. difference is a physical barrier then maybe time would be better spent at the campus gym.
It doesn't look like it was a lighthearted suggestion. You were quite terse. "Buy this if you have $3000" or something like that.
[quote]It's a desktop replacement, a "luggable". The TiBook isn't a desktop replacement, it's a "portable".<hr></blockquote>
The TiBook is quite happily a desktop replacement for many. My sister is using hers as such. I have no use for a luggable, however. I'd need a extra-sized briefcase or messenger bag to carry it around with me when I did need it, and since no laptop can be a desktop replacement for me, I would plan on getting something sturdy, light, somewhat powerful and meaningful to me.
The Area-51M has a very, very small audience -- The LAN Party Gamer.
Comments
$2,500 gets you:
Mac:
-15.2 - 1280x854 LCD
-667Mhz G4
-256MB Ram
-30GB Hard Drive
-32MB ATI 7500
-CDR-DVD combo drive
-5hr battery life
-OSX 10.2
Dell:
-15in 1600x1200 UXGA LCD
-2Ghz P4m
-512MB Ram
-40GB Hard Drive
-64MB GeForce4 440
-24x CDR/DVD Combo
-1.5 hr battery life (guess)
-WinXPoo
While the specs are nice on the Dell (3 times the Mhz, sweet 3d chip, high rez LCD)... I would still take the Mac... But that's just me
So I picked up this:
VPC is stable and works well, but I wont be able to run any newer, more consuming 3D games.
I CAN run AVI's and DIvX's, but it'll take a bit of work on my part.
Limewire sucks even on OSX, and it might be hard to DL music? (doesnt believe this, how do you guys DL music??)
Also- I dont have 2500 to spend
600 Mhrtz
40G HD
384 RAM
12.1 screen.
$1,549.
I'm not willing to shell out about 1.8k (good price for a win machine with monitor) when I can just spend 1k more and upgrade from an iBook to a PowerBook. Lets not forget, this thing should last me 4 years. Id rather spend a good amount now then little bits upgrading and selling later on.
One of the main reasons I can buy the PowerBook is that I have Office X FOR FREE from the uni and so save half a grand on that not including the many other OSX apps they have. If Had to buy Office X too, I would not even consider the PowerBook.
[ 08-10-2002: Message edited by: Shanksta ]</p>
Now with file sharing.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>Limewire sucks even on OSX, and it might be hard to DL music? (doesnt believe this, how do you guys DL music??)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Limewire works it's just it isn't wonderful. What shows up one minute might be gone 5 minutes later then back if you search 5 minutes after that.
ALL PRICES ARE BEFORE EDUCATION DISCOUNT
TOSHIBA: SATELLITE PRO 6100
Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor - M4 @ 2000MHz (2.0GHz)
512MB PC2100 DDR
UXGA Active Matrix (1600 x 1200) 15"
NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go graphics controller w/32MB DDR external video memory
60 Gigabyte HD
DVD/CD-RW multifunction drive
Slim SelectBay?
Integrated V.90/56K modem
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Integrated Wi-Fi? (IEEE 802.11b)
Optional Toshiba Advanced Port Replicator
Windows XP Professional
2 UBS Ports
Battery: 3.5hrs
Weight: 6.8lbs
TOTAL: $2,699
-
SONY: VAIO GRX SERIES
Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 1.70 GHz1-M supports Intel® Enhanced SpeedStep? technology2
512 MB DDR SDRAM (256MBx2; 0 open slots)
Removable 40 GB3 Hard Drive
16.1" UXGA (1600x1200) TFT LCD Screen
32MB ATI MOBILITY? RADEON? 7500
Internal removable CD-RW/DVD combo drive (R-write 16x; RW-write 10x; DVD-read 12x; CD-read 24x)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Microsoft® Word 2002
Standard Lithium-Ion Battery
Limited Warranty: One year parts and labor (90 days without registration)
i.LINK® (IEEE 1394) interface4, TV out, 3 USB, RJ-11 modem jack, RJ-45 Ethernet, Memory Stick® media slot, VGA output, parallel, headphone (stereo), mic-in, port replicator interface
Battery: 2.5-3.5hrs
Weight: 8.0lbs
TOTAL: $2,599
-
ALIENWARE: AREA-51M
High-Performance Laptop Chassis (Standard)
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.4GHz 400MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache
Hi-Performance Heatsink/CPU Cooling Fan
Intel® 845MP+ICH3M Chipset - FC-PGA 478PIN DDR
15' UltraXGA 1600x1200 LCD Display
512MB DDR PC-2100 - Two SO-DIMMs
40GB IBM Travelstar 5400 RPM ATA100
ATI Mobility RADEON 7500 64MB DDR
Sound-Blaster Compatible 3D Audio
3.5 3-Mode Floppy Disk Drive
8X DVD / 8x4x24 CD-RW w/Software MPEG2 Decoder
Integrated 10/100Mb Ethernet NIC
56K Modem with V.92 Technology
Targus Sport Standard Computer Backpack - Platinum/Black
AlienAutopsy: Automated Technical Support Request System
Aliencare Toll-Free 1-Year 24/7 DEPOT Warranty
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Personalized Owner's Manual
Optimized & Configured for High-Performance
4 USB 1.1 Ports & 1 IEEE-1394 Port (4 PIN)
Battery: 1hr
Weight: 9.6lbs
TOTAL: $2,866
-
DELL: INSPIRON 8200
Mobile Pentium® 4 processor 2.0GHz-M
15" Ultra Sharp? UXGA Display @ 1600 x 1200 pixels
512MB, DDR, 2DIMM
60GB Ultra ATA 5400 RPM Hard Drive
24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Roxio's Easy CD Creator®
64MB DDR 4XAGP NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go? 3D Video
Internal 56K Modem
Integrated Network Card
Floppy Drive
Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
IEEE 1394 integrated port
2-USB (Universal Serial Bus) compliant 4-pin connectors
S-Video for TV-Out
Audio jacks: headphones (same as line-out), external mic-in, 1 line-in/audio-in
1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year Mail-In Service
Battery: 2 ? 3hrs
Weight: 8.0lbs
TOTAL: $2,982 (-$80 for Education)
-
APPLE: POWERBOOK
800MHz PowerPC G4
15.2-inch (diagonal) built-in TFT widescreen active-matrix display 1280-by-854
512MB SDRAM - 2 SO DIMMs
60GB Ultra ATA drive
AirPort Card
Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
Mac OS X and Mac OS 9
DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo (8x Write)
DVI to VGA kit
Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
Built-in 11-Mbps AirPort Card (IEEE 802.11 DSSS compliant)
One 400-Mbps FireWire (IEEE 1394) port (10)\\
Two 12-Mbps USB ports
Battery: 5 hrs
Weight: 5.4lbs
TOTAL: $3,399 (-$100 for Education)
There you have it. Honestly I think its now between the VAIO GRX with the 16" screen and the Powerbook now although as you can see, its quite discouraging to see Apple compared to the Windows machines.
[ 08-10-2002: Message edited by: Shanksta ]</p>
Also don't forget the education discount for the Powerbook.
-- 2-3 more hours of battery life
-- DVI-out
-- 60Gb hard drive (Inspiron and Toshiba have them though)
-- Gigabit Ethernet
-- 6 prong Firewire (as opposed to 4-prong ... extra two prongs are for power, so it will drain battery if your external device don't have it's own power)
-- 1280x854 resolution (I'm sorry, but squeezing 1600x1200 into a 15-16" screen is too tiny for me, 1600x1200 needs 19"+monitor ... and not using the native res of an LCD doesn't look as good too, so having a native res that works is good ... although I would like 1280x1024 res .. this is what I currently run at on my 19")
-- did I say more battery life yet ?
-- weights less
-- WiFi built-in (Toshiba has this too)
The Toshiba is the only one that comes close to the PowerBook, but the PowerBook is a little lighter and has longer battery life, which is good. (Toshiba doesn't have firewire though) The only thing that the others have on the TiBook is MHz, and we all know that there is more to proc design than MHz. Pipelines, page faults, memory bandwidth, MHz, branches, branch prediction, etc.
Consider joining the Apple Student Developer program ($99) and using the one-time hardware discount.
Q. I am a college student, but I am not yet 18 years of age. Can I still join the ADC Student Program?
A. You are required to be at least 18 years of age to join the ADC Student Program and to agree to the Terms and Conditions and Non-Disclosure Agreement attached to the ADC Student Program Membership. We have many community resources available for all student developers that do not require program membership.
Q. What is the Hardware discount?
A. ADC Student Members are eligible to receive a once-per-lifetime discount (approximately 20%) off the retail price on a single system of their choice. It will not show up as an asset in your ADC account. This offer is currently available in the U.S, Canada, Australia, and certain European countries (with online Apple Stores) only. For instructions on how to obtain your discount, please check out our Student Hardware Discount page. Make sure you follow the instructions exactly.
Awesome
<strong>WOW, Skipjavk thanks for the info. Id gladly pay 100 bucks for a 20% (still shocked) discount!
Awesome</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is important to note that you must be in a class that has to do with hardware or software development. Apple requires proof of this, so if you are a business major, you can pretty much forget it (unless you are OMIS).
Here are my .02 on the issue. I am a senior business major right now, and I have decided to get a laptop. I presently have a G3 400 tower, and it has been wonderful. It still blows away PC's that were bought at the same time. I have not had a problem with haveing a desktop, but it has been inconvienient at times, especially when we have to write group papers. I think that a laptop is good for college, but not to take to class. I think that conventional note taking is much more efficient, as well as less distracting. It comes in handy for group work, as well as writing papers. It is very nice to not have to deal with the crappy PC's in the labs. Use it to plug into the schools network at the library, and you are set. Buy the POWERBOOK!!!
actually, the thing that's horribly wrong with Windows is that they now scan your HD and send all registration codes on your machine back to MS, for MS and non MS products. the fact that to use their updater you have to agree to let them install DRM tools on your machine without your consent or notification.
i'm sorry, but that's just plain ****ed up. i use Macs and PC's all the time, and have defended both often for what they're good at, but there is nothing that Windows can do that makes it worth sending that kind of crap back to MS, or allowing some asshole company to decided what i can and cannot listen to. it's bullshit.
now, back to the main topic.
digitalandres, .avi's and .divx files are a snap to run. download the application VLC and then double click the files. that's it. it's just a player.
as for using a Mac in a Business school, i graduated from the Madison School of Business not too long ago, and my using a Mac was never a problem. everything is basically Word and PowerPoint.
i did find it funny that almost all group projects ended up being done on my laptop since the other laptops weren't exactly stable enough trust our work to.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
<strong>
If you wanted something like that AlienWare then why not get a desktop?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I didn't tell her to buy it! Even thought it's big and hot, it's still a hell of a lot more portable than a desktop. I carry my iBook around wherever I go, just because it's convenient and very easy. She just wants to be able to take it with her when she goes home on weekends. She's an anti-mac bigot, so getting an iBook or PowerBook "isn't an option" for her.
I was being lighthearted about even mentioning the 51m, but since your vagina got all inflamed I guess we'll have to delve a little deeper.
The 51m whips the Ti's ass in price/performance:
Pros:
TiBook:
weight (5.4lbs < 9.6lbs)
battery life (4 hours < 1 hour (2w2ndbattery))
thickness (1" < 1.7")
51m:
processor (2.4ghz P4 > 800mhz G4)
RAM (DDR > SDR (on faster system bus, so it matters))
video (64MB > 32MB )
Ties:
HD
screen
OS
price
Since the laptop will spend the vast majority of its life on his desk I say the 51m wins for me.
It's a desktop replacement, a "luggable". The TiBook isn't a desktop replacement, it's a "portable".
As a college student, I have little use for a portable, I would much prefer a luggable. It could even be a Mac if Apple made one!
So, if your primary concern is playing games, get a PC. That's just the way it is. Although a PC laptop sacrifices too much in my opinion when it comes to the REAL reasons to get a portable. So, get a PC desktop. It would serve your needs best. If your primary concern is doing other stuff with your computer (like listening to music, creating stuff and *ahem* working), the iBook or Powerbook both win out. Plus, there's nothing like filching a little music over the wireless network at a coffeeshop or in the quad on a sunny day.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
It's 1.7" thick and weighs 9.6 lbs., not 3" thick and 20 lbs.
The Pismo was 1.7" thick and 6 lbs.
The original PBG3 was 2 inches thick and 7.8lbs.
Were those not real laptops?
I don't think it crosses the line into unmanageable. Maybe for my 115lb. girlfriend it might be an annoyance, but I could carry that thing in a backpack and forget it was there.
And I know that for a fact because I just got done helping the gf shopping for a laptop, the huge beast Gateway felt light to me. The original poster might want to check it out, btw, it's a groovy thing (<a href="http://www.gateway.com/work/prod/sb_600xlb_ProdDetail.shtml"; target="_blank">Gateway 600XL</a> - 15.7" screen, integrated 802.11b)
If I were to get one I'd have 2 batteries in it (no need for a CD drive when out and about), 2 hours and I can't think of many situations where I'd be without an outlet nearby for two hours, especially on my campus.
If a 4 lb. difference is a physical barrier then maybe time would be better spent at the campus gym.
[quote]It's a desktop replacement, a "luggable". The TiBook isn't a desktop replacement, it's a "portable".<hr></blockquote>
The TiBook is quite happily a desktop replacement for many. My sister is using hers as such. I have no use for a luggable, however. I'd need a extra-sized briefcase or messenger bag to carry it around with me when I did need it, and since no laptop can be a desktop replacement for me, I would plan on getting something sturdy, light, somewhat powerful and meaningful to me.
The Area-51M has a very, very small audience -- The LAN Party Gamer.