Quite apart from the fact that I was originally talking about SJ vis-a-vis Apple, can you provide some cites or links? What were the cumulative losses for Pixar and Tesla under SJ? How does it compare to Musk's cumulative losses with Tesla (2003), SolarCity (not sure when), and SpaceX (2002)?
Quite apart from the fact that I was originally talking about SJ vis-a-vis Apple, can you provide some cites or links? What were the cumulative losses for Pixar and Tesla under SJ? How does it compare to Musk's cumulative losses with Tesla (2003), SolarCity (not sure when), and SpaceX (2002)?
Seeing as neither were public companies...
It's common knowledge they both were money pits.
Ok, send me some credible links to the 'common knowledge' then, and equally, ones that put things into perspective vis-a-vis Musk's businesses. Again, leaving aside the fact that I was talking about SJ and Apple.
This guy talks way too much smack about a company that isn't even selling anything that competes with Tesla, and won't for at least 4-5 years. Something has him frazzled.
1) The number of people using a device by a company isn't an indicator of a cultish mindset. Sure, Apple would surely also lead in numbers, but what about intensity for the average cult member. Then you have the aspect of the lower volume, which Apple use to have; for example, two Tesla owners who meet randomly are probably more likely to start up a conversation with other than those two people if they just happen to both be using iPhones.
2) I live in California and I see them pretty much everyday when on the road, often several, although I can't recall if I've seen two or more on the road near each other like with other, more common cars. I've even seen one at a gas station... but they were getting something inside the store.
In Austin, I see them stacked up at lights occasionally. They're easily the most popular $70K+ car here.
Because roads aren't constantly changed to hog up any increase in gas mileage, and horsepower.
What are the roads in your metaphor? The processors? My processor speed keeps increasing and my battery life also increases. That's an increase in both ends. I don't see that with any cars. If you increase performance you loose efficiency.
Funny coming from a guy who made his money on PayPal. What exactly did he learn from PayPal that would make him a good candidate to build cars?
I look at the Model X and see a ridiculous vehicle that's more about trying to be different than trying to be good. Those Falcon Wing doors are stupid. Slower than regular doors, far too complex (unreliable) and expensive. Oh, but you can drive within 12" of another car and open them. Great for the rear passengers, but what about the front (who have to use the regular doors)? And if it's like the Model S (with no rear climate control), then it's even worse. Spend all that money to save the rear passengers from having to duck their heads and climb in the vehicle, but deny them the comfort of climate control for the hours they spend IN the vehicle.
And the stupid names like Ludicrous mode? What a waste of money making a car with insane 0-60 times instead of spending it on other features that would actually be useful for the passengers. All that performance and you can't even use it because thermal throttling will come into effect after a few runs. You can't even complete a lap on a race course without it slowing down.
And did anyone see that "snake" robotic device to plug your car in for you? Please. Anyone who's ever done any work in robotics and actuators/manipulators knows his method is, again, far more complex and expensive than traditional robotic arms. Yet ANOTHER example of Musk making something that's more flash than substance. I think he must have dreamed that up after a late night drinking and watching The Terminator.
Musk is the opposite of Jobs. Jobs wanted things that are powerful and capable but hidden away under a simple and efficient user interface. Musk builds things that are flashy on the surface, but lack substance underneath. Apple/Jobs way is better.
Steve Jobs was twice the salesman that Elon Musk is and then some. Steve routinely criticized Apple's competitors. One should expect a CEO to criticize competitors'
I get what Musk is trying to do. He's trying to exude self-confidence. He's trying to show that Apple doesn't scare him. He wants to show that the rumors about Apple poaching Tesla engineers and Apple planning a move into the car business doesn't scare him in the slightest. IMO, the most effective way for him to show that Apple doesn't scare would have been to say nothing at all.
As much as Steve was a salesman, one thing he never did was to criticize would-be competitors, i.e. talk smack about rumored products, at least as far as I can remember. He criticized products that his competitors were either already selling or had announced to be sold. I don't think Steve ever criticized companies rumored to be competing against him.
Elon Musk's comments sound extremely familiar to those made by the cEO of Handspring (remember the Treo?). Yes, I think it was Jeff Hawkins. Not sure exactly, but they said, "If Apple thinks they're just going to come in with no experience in phones and succeed..."
Well, we know what happened. Looks like a repeat play is underway.
Nobody has been able to replicate even the 3 year old Model S and it is taking real dollars away from companies like Audi. The funny part is NOBODY is even close to Tesla in electric range and they pretty much have the gas world beat in 4 door performance.
It's not because they couldn't do it, it's because it doesn't make business sense. Did you know that Tesla is LOSING money? Negative profit.
It's not because they couldn't do it, it's because it doesn't make business sense. Did you know that Tesla is LOSING money? Negative profit.
Are you sure you're not conflating the cost to build a car v. the cost it's being sold at, with Tesla reinvested their earnings to help build out their business? They are investing a reported $5 billion in just their gigafactory for batteries. Are you aware of what that potential can do for Tesla, or EVs in general?
This a company looking ahead. Sure, I'll agree that other companies could have done it, but they didn't because they didn't see the future; just like Apple invested heavily into creating a new OS and mobile HW for a then tablet project that then became the iPhone, and then invested into a mobile GPU company, and then into a ARM chip design, and billions into display companies to help develop their Hi-PPI IPS panels at affordable costs, and on and on and on. MS could have made Windows Mobile great a decade earlier, and Dell could have made high quality harder sooner, and HP could have spent decades developing their own desktop OS so they wouldn't get trapped under MS' thumb with al the other WinPC OEMs, and Palm, Nokia, and BB could have developed better HW, SW, services, and unification between all for a modern smartphone experience... but they didn't! They let someone with no marketshare and, in many cases, no experience, take it over.
In the modern automobile world we're seeing the old hat cling to ICE and say that EVs are and will always be impractical solutions. Remember when HP had the EliteBook with a 1080p IPS display that cost an additional $700 just for the upgraded display? I do.
Thinking and planning can be a real asset to success, and Musk, while not a great orator, is a great visionary. This is happening.
You can't go to a company like Foxconn and say build me a car? Why not?
Why wouldn't a company like Mercedes or BMW or Renault want to build a car for Apple, especially since it's likely to be co-designed and Apple would contribute money to building out the assembly lines? Of course, I'm assuming Apple would never use an American company to build the car (except for Tesla in theory, but they don't have the capacity to mass produce).
Assuming Apple was going to build a car, and they approached Tesla as they did, my guess is Apple might have proposed building an assembly plant with Tesla to build out their mass production capabilities. Musk wouldn't have any of that because the reality would be, he would effectively lose control of his company. Not so for BMW, Renault, and Mercedes.
Ps: I rented a Renault last year while in France. The quality of that car was outstanding and put to shame every car I've rented in the US. Really, a gorgeous machine!
Steve Jobs was twice the salesman that Elon Musk is and then some. Steve routinely criticized Apple's competitors. One should expect a CEO to criticize competitors'
"Competitors"??? What's Tesla selling that competes with Apple?
Comments
Seeing as neither were public companies...
It's common knowledge they both were money pits.
Does it bother The Musky One that Apple generates more revenue per quarter than Tesla's entire market cap? I'm thinking it does.
Ok, send me some credible links to the 'common knowledge' then, and equally, ones that put things into perspective vis-a-vis Musk's businesses. Again, leaving aside the fact that I was talking about SJ and Apple.
This guy talks way too much smack about a company that isn't even selling anything that competes with Tesla, and won't for at least 4-5 years. Something has him frazzled.
1) The number of people using a device by a company isn't an indicator of a cultish mindset. Sure, Apple would surely also lead in numbers, but what about intensity for the average cult member. Then you have the aspect of the lower volume, which Apple use to have; for example, two Tesla owners who meet randomly are probably more likely to start up a conversation with other than those two people if they just happen to both be using iPhones.
2) I live in California and I see them pretty much everyday when on the road, often several, although I can't recall if I've seen two or more on the road near each other like with other, more common cars. I've even seen one at a gas station... but they were getting something inside the store.
In Austin, I see them stacked up at lights occasionally. They're easily the most popular $70K+ car here.
I love the job title of Mechatronics Engineer.
Excuse me, but neither did Tesla.
What are the roads in your metaphor? The processors? My processor speed keeps increasing and my battery life also increases. That's an increase in both ends. I don't see that with any cars. If you increase performance you loose efficiency.
I look at the Model X and see a ridiculous vehicle that's more about trying to be different than trying to be good. Those Falcon Wing doors are stupid. Slower than regular doors, far too complex (unreliable) and expensive. Oh, but you can drive within 12" of another car and open them. Great for the rear passengers, but what about the front (who have to use the regular doors)? And if it's like the Model S (with no rear climate control), then it's even worse. Spend all that money to save the rear passengers from having to duck their heads and climb in the vehicle, but deny them the comfort of climate control for the hours they spend IN the vehicle.
And the stupid names like Ludicrous mode? What a waste of money making a car with insane 0-60 times instead of spending it on other features that would actually be useful for the passengers. All that performance and you can't even use it because thermal throttling will come into effect after a few runs. You can't even complete a lap on a race course without it slowing down.
And did anyone see that "snake" robotic device to plug your car in for you? Please. Anyone who's ever done any work in robotics and actuators/manipulators knows his method is, again, far more complex and expensive than traditional robotic arms. Yet ANOTHER example of Musk making something that's more flash than substance. I think he must have dreamed that up after a late night drinking and watching The Terminator.
Musk is the opposite of Jobs. Jobs wanted things that are powerful and capable but hidden away under a simple and efficient user interface. Musk builds things that are flashy on the surface, but lack substance underneath. Apple/Jobs way is better.
Steve Jobs was twice the salesman that Elon Musk is and then some. Steve routinely criticized Apple's competitors. One should expect a CEO to criticize competitors'
I get what Musk is trying to do. He's trying to exude self-confidence. He's trying to show that Apple doesn't scare him. He wants to show that the rumors about Apple poaching Tesla engineers and Apple planning a move into the car business doesn't scare him in the slightest. IMO, the most effective way for him to show that Apple doesn't scare would have been to say nothing at all.
As much as Steve was a salesman, one thing he never did was to criticize would-be competitors, i.e. talk smack about rumored products, at least as far as I can remember. He criticized products that his competitors were either already selling or had announced to be sold. I don't think Steve ever criticized companies rumored to be competing against him.
Well, we know what happened. Looks like a repeat play is underway.
Nobody has been able to replicate even the 3 year old Model S and it is taking real dollars away from companies like Audi. The funny part is NOBODY is even close to Tesla in electric range and they pretty much have the gas world beat in 4 door performance.
It's not because they couldn't do it, it's because it doesn't make business sense. Did you know that Tesla is LOSING money? Negative profit.
Are you sure you're not conflating the cost to build a car v. the cost it's being sold at, with Tesla reinvested their earnings to help build out their business? They are investing a reported $5 billion in just their gigafactory for batteries. Are you aware of what that potential can do for Tesla, or EVs in general?
This a company looking ahead. Sure, I'll agree that other companies could have done it, but they didn't because they didn't see the future; just like Apple invested heavily into creating a new OS and mobile HW for a then tablet project that then became the iPhone, and then invested into a mobile GPU company, and then into a ARM chip design, and billions into display companies to help develop their Hi-PPI IPS panels at affordable costs, and on and on and on. MS could have made Windows Mobile great a decade earlier, and Dell could have made high quality harder sooner, and HP could have spent decades developing their own desktop OS so they wouldn't get trapped under MS' thumb with al the other WinPC OEMs, and Palm, Nokia, and BB could have developed better HW, SW, services, and unification between all for a modern smartphone experience... but they didn't! They let someone with no marketshare and, in many cases, no experience, take it over.
In the modern automobile world we're seeing the old hat cling to ICE and say that EVs are and will always be impractical solutions. Remember when HP had the EliteBook with a 1080p IPS display that cost an additional $700 just for the upgraded display? I do.
Thinking and planning can be a real asset to success, and Musk, while not a great orator, is a great visionary. This is happening.
Why wouldn't a company like Mercedes or BMW or Renault want to build a car for Apple, especially since it's likely to be co-designed and Apple would contribute money to building out the assembly lines? Of course, I'm assuming Apple would never use an American company to build the car (except for Tesla in theory, but they don't have the capacity to mass produce).
Assuming Apple was going to build a car, and they approached Tesla as they did, my guess is Apple might have proposed building an assembly plant with Tesla to build out their mass production capabilities. Musk wouldn't have any of that because the reality would be, he would effectively lose control of his company. Not so for BMW, Renault, and Mercedes.
Ps: I rented a Renault last year while in France. The quality of that car was outstanding and put to shame every car I've rented in the US. Really, a gorgeous machine!
So, Tesla can actually become a Car company in 10years but apple can't? Come on, what was tesla back in 2004?
If it was easy anybody would do it.
Steve Jobs was twice the salesman that Elon Musk is and then some. Steve routinely criticized Apple's competitors. One should expect a CEO to criticize competitors'
"Competitors"??? What's Tesla selling that competes with Apple?