Elon Musk calls Apple the 'Tesla Graveyard,' pooh-poohs rumored Apple Car

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  • Reply 161 of 276

    A few other famous quotes from individuals who also trash talked Apple over the last 2 decades.

     

    Dell CEO Michael Dell, 1997: "What would I do? I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." - Yup, that worked out well.

     

    Palm CEO Ed Collegian, 2006: "We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” - Yup, that worked even better.

     

    Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO, 30 April 2007: "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." - Well, no chance Steve was right anyway.

     

    Good luck Elon Musk, Tesla CEO, 2015. At least you will now be remembered.

     

     

     

  • Reply 162 of 276
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ireland wrote: »
    Now he's just talking crap.

    Yep and leaving a very negative impression. He really should be more thoughtful with respect to his public image, once trashed it takes forever to fix.
  • Reply 163 of 276
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     

    Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in the thread.

     

    The tech industry is amazing no doubt, but cars are definitely a whole other level versus consumer electronics. They use a lot of the tech that found inside inside consumer electronics in addition to engineering a ton of moving parts.

     

    With every year that passes vehicles consistently get better mileage with more power and fewer emissions (unless you drive a VW diesel), better ride, better handling, better crash protection, more tech features, etc. The list is nearly endless with how much better vehicles get every year.

     

    They are more reliable than they have ever been, easily run 10,000 miles between oil changes, and will easily run for a quarter million miles with nominal maintenance.

     

    Also there is a reason many vehicles look similar these days and that is because of air friction. Much like how most planes or high speed trains look similar. Wind tunnel testing shows that to achieve an efficient drag coefficient design means the body of the vehicle can only venture so far from one another. As far as vehicles like trucks and commercial vehicles go, there are certain levels of capacity and utility that needs to be maintained, so they too will all look similar.




    I think you're really looking at cars through a totally different set of eyes than me. You cannot measure car improvements year by year. It's more like decade by decade. What's the average MPG of cars today? Now compare that to 2 decades ago. Probably about a 15% improvement there. I've owned about 6 cars in my life and see no appreciable difference between any of them over the past 25 years in terms of handling, acceleration and efficiency. That's because they are mechanical and not susceptible to things like Moore's law. The only jump was when I got my first Prius back in 2005. Since then, I replaced that Prius in 2010. What was different between those two? Nothing except the 2010 offered bluetooth and GPS mapping which comes directly from the tech industry, not the auto industry.

     

    I liken the auto industry today to the smartphone industry before the iPhone. There is a big need for disruption in terms of value, efficiency and style which are 3 things that the auto industry should be embarrassed about. Electric self-driving cars is the first step to fix this. The other way is to force the auto industry to compete against truly innovative companies and not just themselves (who are all in the pocket of the oil companies anyway).

  • Reply 164 of 276
    Ok, so he's concerned about Apple.
  • Reply 165 of 276
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    E
    sog35 wrote: »
    The Model X is a lame car.

    Those Falcon doors are ridiculous.  They take over 3 seconds to close.  How is that practical when its raining?  On one hand it suppose to be a super safe family mover.  But then you make the car go 0-60 in 3 seconds. LOL. How safe is that? 

    Wake me up when Tesla makes a cool $30k-$40k car.  Till then they are just a company that sells cars for $30k less then the cost to build.

    Even $30K is too much. For electrics to take off they need a compelling reason beyond being electric. Cost is a big factor and frankly i think Tesla is starting to see this. Expensive cars that dont go very far are problematic.
  • Reply 166 of 276

    What a twat to speak about your ex-employees like that, regardless whether they were fired or not, and about another company and its employees, you don't speak about people that way. You could say it's a PR stunt, but that's no excuse and given how there's a definite correlation between the heights achieved on the corporate ladder and asshole-ism, he's just a typical corporate head prick.

  • Reply 167 of 276
    sog35 wrote: »
    Why does that matter?

    Its not like government tech is at the cutting edge all the time.  The reason no non-goverment agency launches rockets is because its not a viable business. 

    Again wake me up when Space-X actually makes a dime of profit.

    That's totally irrelevant. You've diverted the subject. Elon Musk is changing the future. Private space travel will be incredibly significant. Eventually the vast majority of economic activity will involve space travel, and we're witnessing the beginning of that today.
  • Reply 168 of 276
    Haha...I get the sense that Musk is getting tired of answering questions about Apple. I don't doubt Apple could make a very nice car, but Tesla has nothing to worry about. There's certainly enough room for both in the EV world since the big auto makers are being so slow to move there.
  • Reply 169 of 276
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    freshmaker wrote: »
    Haha...I get the sense that Musk is getting tired of answering questions about Apple. I don't doubt Apple could make a very nice car, but Tesla has nothing to worry about. There's certainly enough room for both in the EV world since the big auto makers are being so slow to move there.

    Perhaps Tesla has nothing to worry about with respect to Apple but that doesn't mean they have nothing to worry about in general. The stock was just downgraded today over model X concerns.
  • Reply 170 of 276
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    Seems Musk knows what he is talking about, no reason not to believe him, espessially when he is taking about things he is directly involved in, like the people who work for him.
    So, that's a big problem for Apple if the people they hire are sub par, especially because Apples know how is centered around operating system software and some application software (AI for example is something they are not experienced in, as SIRI proves every day), CPU/GPU hardware engineering and design (the look of things) in general.
    Not exactly the skill set needed to engineer and design a new car.
    I think they would be best at a car OS and visual augmented reality system for the front window of the car...not the rest of it.
    Musk knows all about building real hardware, he has proven that several times, he is also very intelligent and smart in general, you should listen when he speaks.
  • Reply 171 of 276
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    knowitall wrote: »
    Seems Musk knows what he is talking about, no reason not to believe him, espessially when he is taking about things he is directly involved in, like the people who work for him.
    So, that's a big problem for Apple if the people they hire at sub par, especially because Apples know how is centered around operating system software and some application software (AI for example is something they are not experienced in, as SIRI proves every day), CPU/GPU hardware engineering and design (the look of things) in general.
    Not exactly the skill set needed to engineer and design a new car.
    I think they would be best at a car OS and visual augmented reality system for the front window of the car...not the rest of it.
    Musk knows all about building real hardware, he has proven that several times, he is also very intelligent and smart in general, you should listen when he speaks.

    And Apple doesn't know anything about building "real hardware"? Give me a break. Musk's background wasn't in the automotive industry. Tim Cook is a master of manufacturing and supply chain. Apple has the money and can hire the talent to build an EV if they want to. Many Apple employees working on this project have automotive experience and Apple's CFO came from GM.
  • Reply 172 of 276
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wigby View Post

     

    I think you're really looking at cars through a totally different set of eyes than me. You cannot measure car improvements year by year. It's more like decade by decade. What's the average MPG of cars today? Now compare that to 2 decades ago. Probably about a 15% improvement there. I've owned about 6 cars in my life and see no appreciable difference between any of them over the past 25 years in terms of handling, acceleration and efficiency. That's because they are mechanical and not susceptible to things like Moore's law. The only jump was when I got my first Prius back in 2005. Since then, I replaced that Prius in 2010. What was different between those two? Nothing except the 2010 offered bluetooth and GPS mapping which comes directly from the tech industry, not the auto industry.

     

    I liken the auto industry today to the smartphone industry before the iPhone. There is a big need for disruption in terms of value, efficiency and style which are 3 things that the auto industry should be embarrassed about. Electric self-driving cars is the first step to fix this. The other way is to force the auto industry to compete against truly innovative companies and not just themselves (who are all in the pocket of the oil companies anyway).


    I think you are right, we are seeing things differently.

     

    You are right, comparing something like Moores law to vehicles, or anything else for that matter is out of place. As advanced as agriculture, medicine, new ways to extract energy from the ground, sun, wind, hydro, or other applied sciences have become, they cannot compete with something like Moores law. Moores law can only be applied to a chip with transistors on it. But even Moores law starts to break down as we reach atomic scales. Or find new materials or methods of computing.

     

    All I can say is I have owned well over a dozen vehicles, both cars and trucks, in just the last 20 years and there is an appreciable increase every single year in quality, efficiency, ride, handling, reliability, safety, incorporation of technology etc. 

     

    That being said I have never owned a Prius, have only driven the same one from time to time. So I have no take on how they have or have not changed over the years. So you would know far better than me for that particular model.

     

    So shake hands and agree to disagree? 

  • Reply 173 of 276
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    That's totally irrelevant. You've diverted the subject. Elon Musk is changing the future. Private space travel will be incredibly significant. Eventually the vast majority of economic activity will involve space travel, and we're witnessing the beginning of that today.

    Your absolutely right, just ignore him, he clearly doesn't know what he is taking about.
    The difference between Elon Musk and Apple management is that he is driven by ambitions and ideals outside money alone.
  • Reply 174 of 276
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Oh god.

    Go worship Musk in your Musk shrine.  Give me a break.  Apple has $200 billion in cash and makes over $50 billion a year.  Apple can hire viritually anyone they want.  You have CEO's joining Apple in lesser positions.  

    Tesla is in such sad shape THEY COULD NOT EVEN SECURE A LOAN LAST QUARTER TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON.  Thats right.  No legitimate bank on the face of the earth was willing to give Tesla a loan.  Think about that.  Would you want to work for a company that is losing tens of millions every year and can't even get a loan? A company that is literally relying on goverment credits to stay afloat?  So how did Musk keep the lights on?  He sold more Tesla equity and did a personal guarantee.  So basically if you owned a Telsa share a few months ago your stock just got diluted.  Exactly the opposite of what Apple is doing with the buyback.  Tesla is selling MORE SHARES to raise money.

    I'm sorry.  If I'm an elite engineer I'm not going to work for a company that can't even turn a profit and is a few steps away from bankrupcy, if I get an offer from the most valuable and profitable company in the world.

    It's not the money you see, it's the ideals you have.
  • Reply 175 of 276
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    Oh god.

     

    Go worship Apple in your Apple shrine.


    Hehe, fixed that for ya ;)

     

    I kid, I kid.

     

    For the record, that is not the original quote from sog35.

  • Reply 176 of 276
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    rogifan wrote: »
    And Apple doesn't know anything about building "real hardware"? Give me a break. Musk's background wasn't in the automotive industry. Tim Cook is a master of manufacturing and supply chain. Apple has the money and can hire the talent to build an EV if they want to. Many Apple employees working on this project have automotive experience and Apple's CFO came from GM.

    I just stated the facts, as I know them, Apple has no proven track record in this respect , Elon Musk has.
    Hiring people for lost of money isn't a guarantee for success, most of the time people lured away in this way are just grabbing the money and have not much ethical consciousness.
  • Reply 177 of 276
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Oh god.

     

    Go worship Musk in your Musk shrine.  Give me a break.  Apple has $200 billion in cash and makes over $50 billion a year.  Apple can hire viritually anyone they want.  You have CEO's joining Apple in lesser positions.  

     

    Tesla is in such sad shape THEY COULD NOT EVEN SECURE A LOAN LAST QUARTER TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON.  Thats right.  No legitimate bank on the face of the earth was willing to give Tesla a loan.  Think about that.  Would you want to work for a company that is losing tens of millions every year and can't even get a loan? A company that is literally relying on goverment credits to stay afloat?  So how did Musk keep the lights on?  He sold more Tesla equity and did a personal guarantee.  So basically if you owned a Telsa share a few months ago your stock just got diluted.  Exactly the opposite of what Apple is doing with the buyback.  Tesla is selling MORE SHARES to raise money.

     

    I'm sorry.  If I'm an elite engineer I'm not going to work for a company that can't even turn a profit and is a few steps away from bankrupcy, if I get an offer from the most valuable and profitable company in the world.




    I don't always agree with SOG but he is correct on this one. If the work is similar why would people work for the company with no money, an possibly few prospects, rather than the one with money? Why would the worst people join Apple, why wouldn't Apple know that these people were fired ( in the interview or in the hiring process).

     

    Its much more likely that Apple is head hunting Tesla engineers, paying them stupid money, and they are leaving for Apple for the same kind of interesting work they are doing in Tesla. I am sure some Tesla employees remain loyal, but not that many people can afford to turn down big money and options in a part of the world where $1M buys you a shed to live in. 

  • Reply 178 of 276
    Sounds like he is trying too hard to sound not worried.
  • Reply 179 of 276
    sog35 wrote: »
    Oh give me a break.  

    We had rockets going into space over 50 years ago.  Big deal.  Again anyone can dream up some bullshit pipe dream.  Anyone can start a company and say they are building a time machine, curing cancer, making people live forever.  Don't mean NOTHING until its a reality.

    But go ahead and continue your Musk worship.  Bow down to him 5 times a day.  But what exactly has he done?

    1. Created PayPal.  A horrible experience and dated technology.
    2. Space X.  Retro fiting decades old rockets and losing millions every year.
    3. Building $130k cars and selling them at a $30k loss

    Wake me up when he creates something that changes HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of peoples lives.

    And what type of economic activity will involve space travel? 

    You win the award for most dilusional post of the year.

    1. PayPal essentially created online banking. He sold if years ago so Paypal's current state has nothing to do with Musk.

    2. SpaceX is the only rocket company that actually builds their technology from scratch. I think you have SpaceX confused with Boeing and the other dinosaurs.

    3. Tesla makes about 30% margin on their cars. They reinvest their money into R&D and the GigaFactory.

    Please do a little research before spewing your fake analysis.
  • Reply 180 of 276
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    By the way, once you hire enough good people from company A, then other people will more easily leave company A to work with their friends and colleagues. You can end up with the same teams more or less if this takes off.

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