@sog35@mstone I admire your patience but i can't for the life of me understand why you continue to engage with @pistis He's been arrogant, condescending, rude and so very wrong about what people want and what the "best" system is comprised of. I get the impression that he's very young, perhaps he's smart amongst his peers, but obviously not so smart when put up agains all of society. He seems to lack a lot of real world experience and the ability to be objective and understand that much of the world has a vastly different lifestyle than his. He needs to become much more open minded and lose the attitude - especially while being so wrong about so many things!
I agree with almost all of your points @sog35 but I can't understand why you're being so patient with the little twerp as he continues to attempt to belittle and demean you. I'm on the verge of blocking him since I see so little value or merit in any of his opinions or his claimed "insights" and honestly - I don't like the tone he's using with you.
I feel very special and clever for having spotted this sign of Apple's inexorable quality degredation.
I’ll just go ahead and say the word “England” here. That’s code for whatever you want it to mean, and it’s also code for everyone else to know what to think about your post.
I’ll just go ahead and say the word “England” here. That’s code for whatever you want it to mean, and it’s also code for everyone else to know what to think about your post.
You're a very strange individual. It was a joke. An English joke for English people perhaps? Though I see lots of other people being sarcastic about Apple being doomed around here, so not really sure what you're on about. Just being your usual delightful self I suppose.
When you see What apple wants for "there" Memory you would be happy if they offered a 0 GB version so that you can get your memory at competitive pricing. For the 600$ you could upgrade 2 machines. The Max memory of 16 in the 21" is dew to the fact that the MBoard only has 2 slots so wenn some one delivers 16 GB SoDimms you will be able to go to 32 and the 27" to 64 but till that happens those are the Max numbers.
Apple Memory prices have always been out of this world.
I'm a little disappointed in Apple. If their 27" iMac had TB3 andcat least one USBc port, I'd be placing my order right now along with a Promise TB drive array.
I just don't get it. These items are already spec'd. I may buy one anyways as my 2009 is getting a bit creaky, however I really wish Appke would put in current port tech,
Instead of just buying a 27inch 5k iMac with fusion drive for $1899?
I don't know about a dock. The Henge docks are $400. I don't think that is a good solution but you would still need two TB to VGA adapters at $30 each for those crappy 24" monitors.
Portability is niche when you are talking about a desktop. Who the hell things about portability when they buy an iMac?
Do you think maybe, just maybe, a person advocating using a laptop with a docking station, monitor and accessories might have the errant thought of taking the laptop putside once in a while?
You've gone doolally making spurious lists of all the things such a solution would require, but entirely glossed over a mega advantage of it. Take your computer with you when you want. Not niche, mobile is winning. Proportionally less people buy desktops every year (I think that's still true, right?) because of these very advantages.
Sure, if you totally ignore the major advantage of one solution then another solution might be preferable, but that proves jack all.
Do you think maybe, just maybe, a person advocating using a laptop with a docking station, monitor and accessories might have the errant thought of taking the laptop putside once in a while?
This thread got way off on a tangent. I merely mentioned that the 27" was ideal for iOS development as you could have all the Xcode panels open at the same time, which immediately brought on a storm of ridiculous criticism from someone who I imagine is more of a Windows troll rather than an iOS developer, at least based on the crappy dual monitors he recommended. "Game, Set, Match!" what a bunch of arrogant BS.
Mobile is good and we mostly all have MBP or Airs when we are on the go. But, the 27" iMac 5K is, in my opinion, the absolute best machine for iOS development, hands down and that was what was being contested. Honestly, some people are so mobile centric they will sacrifice everything else such as ergonomics, vision, cramped keyboard, no mouse, no time machine, sketchy public WiFi, lack of firewall and risky physical security, all for the sake of being mobile. Personally, I have 5 computers and a couple iPads so I have the luxury of using which ever computer and location best suits my needs. If you have only one computer then a MBP makes sense but one should not start criticizing someone who has the resources to own any computer they want just because you can't and then try to move the goal posts to say that the notebook is better for the general public when the original comment was exclusively about iOS development, which is certainly not the general public.
Do you think maybe, just maybe, a person advocating using a laptop with a docking station, monitor and accessories might have the errant thought of taking the laptop putside once in a while?
This thread got way off on a tangent. I merely mentioned that the 27" was ideal for iOS development as you could have all the Xcode panels open at the same time, which immediately brought on a storm of ridiculous criticism from someone who I imagine is more of a Windows troll rather than an iOS developer, at least based on the crappy dual monitors he recommended. "Game, Set, Match!" what a bunch of arrogant BS.
Mobile is good and we mostly all have MBP or Airs when we are on the go. But, the 27" iMac 5K is, in my opinion, the absolute best machine for iOS development, hands down and that was what was being contested. Honestly, some people are so mobile centric they will sacrifice everything else such as ergonomics, vision, cramped keyboard, no mouse, no time machine, sketchy public WiFi, lack of firewall and risky physical security, all for the sake of being mobile. Personally, I have 5 computers and a couple iPads so I have the luxury of using which ever computer and location best suits my needs. If you have only one computer then a MBP makes sense but one should not start criticizing someone who has the resources to own any computer they want just because you can't and then try to move the goal posts to say that the notebook is better for the general public when the original comment was exclusively about iOS development, which is certainly not the general public.
I used to have a dual 19-20" monitor set up for CAD/technical drawing, but found that even a single, larger 24" 1920x1200 monitor centered in front of me was better for focus. I kept one of the small monitors off to the side for messaging or just to have a secondary screen if I needed to reference some other document while working on main monitor.
Now that I have a 27" Retina iMac...well, let me just say that I am so freaking spoiled now. It's amazing how good even images embedded in web sites can look, never mind the sharp linework in CAD and PDF building plans and technical drawings. I think the base 27" Retina is still not much more than a separate 5K monitor only--and the PC needed to drive that separate 5K can be fairly pricey in a hurry.
I kept the small monitor off to the side of the iMac, but I rarely use it now. It's hard to look at! Everything is so fuzzy by comparison.
While I don't think a pair of 1920x1080 monitors is horrible, I can't believe anyone would tout this configuration as anything other than "good enough."
I'm not sure where you get that idea. The 27" iMac largely sells to professionals. As such this machine is a huge disappointment.
Baloneey. Beyond that adapters to deliver and old style USB port would be dirt cheap. Even worst Apple just upgraded Keyboards and other devices and failed to transition to the new port standards.
Unfortunately it is the Pro user that least needs these upgrades.
I'm an iMac fan. But I have to agree with the Wizard here on this.
4k on the 21 incher. Great. Skylake on the 27 incher? Meh.
No USB-C! That is asinine for a flagship desktop. Makes you wonder who's driving at Apple.
My initial impression from the spec sheet is that there is nothing to write home about here. It is almost as if Apple engineers on the iMac team don't know what is happening on the Mac Book, iPad and other hardware lines.
I can't imagine many honest and glowing reviews over this "new" hardware. Read the specs and it is pretty obvious the bean counters have taken over at Apple. The "new " storage solutions are pathetic to say the least. This especially if the intent is to offer up hardware to support the video processing markets.
Thunderbolt 3? USB 3.1 type C (reversible) generation 2? Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad with built-in USB 3.1 hub? SDXC reader with UHS-II maximum speed (300 MB/s read/write)?
I guess you'd have to ask Uncle Phil about that...
I'm rejecting your rejection! If you pay good money for the high end model you should get something for it. That would be two 8GB DIMM modules which are actually trivially priced these days. It isn't like the machines introduce modern memory systems either, over all a pathetic update.
Agreed. Even more trivial for a company with 200 billion in the bank.
Next year is the HBM2 year for GPGPUs. I have no desire to buy any AIO system when < 12 months later HBM2 Memory up to 32GB becomes reality.
I'll just pick up a new Mac mini for novel writing and wait for a real system based GPU that is coming. The AMD Radeon Fury Nano makes it clear that GPGPUs are going big, while their total surface area is shrinking rapidly.
2015 is the wasted year in traditional computing. That goes for desktop, laptop and workstation options.
I've read plenty of posts on Macrumors and Appleinsider on this 'astro turf' (well, even I had trouble eating Uncle Phil's hyperbole this time...) and your post is right on the money. Anybody with half a brain should wait for about 12 months before buying an iMac or any other type of machine.
2015 is a non-event or yes, 'wasted' in terms of traditional computing. Glacial, incremental improvements. Put really in the shade by the computing power offered by e.g.. iPad Pro for much less coin.
gpGPU power is set to get the biggest boost in years with HBM2 next year. Massive jump in VRAM for 4k/5K work. Probably 50-100% gains from process shift, design and the HBM2 Vram boost. (What? 8 gigs standard?) And should run way cooler too. Only then will we have the power to really throw around those 4/5k screens.
In fairness, no GPUs out there really 'throw' around 4k/5k work in 3D at the moment. Pretty much in the 30/60 fps range from the many single gpus I've seen.
And what really ticks me off by the review sites. None are really mentioning that the 'new' AMD card in the iMac is just rebadged. AMD rebadged all but their Fury line.
Tellingly, Apple (who are usually quite boastful about gpu improvements) have nothing much to say about the GPU power of the 'new' 395MX (unless I missed the link?) Does it put the 295MX in the shade? :P
Why didn't Apple include the 990 Nvidia? Political spat? Not that it matters much. Mdrift's point holds true.
I'll be selling my iMac flagship from two years ago. Buying an iPad Pro for pre-vis'. Next year, IF Apple pass on the VRAM of HBM2 to the customer and include some SSD as standard, I'll buy a 5K iMac.
The current up sell is unworthy. Ram, HD, GPU, CPU? All mediocre 'updates.'
Comments
Did you think Apple would announce Macs with new designs via press release?
I agree with almost all of your points @sog35 but I can't understand why you're being so patient with the little twerp as he continues to attempt to belittle and demean you. I'm on the verge of blocking him since I see so little value or merit in any of his opinions or his claimed "insights" and honestly - I don't like the tone he's using with you.
Damn A$ and Australian pricing. Thinking about one of these next year, however my preferred configs have gone up A$440 and A$520.
I feel very special and clever for having spotted this sign of Apple's inexorable quality degredation.
I’ll just go ahead and say the word “England” here. That’s code for whatever you want it to mean, and it’s also code for everyone else to know what to think about your post.
I’ll just go ahead and say the word “England” here. That’s code for whatever you want it to mean, and it’s also code for everyone else to know what to think about your post.
You're a very strange individual. It was a joke. An English joke for English people perhaps? Though I see lots of other people being sarcastic about Apple being doomed around here, so not really sure what you're on about. Just being your usual delightful self I suppose.
The Max memory of 16 in the 21" is dew to the fact that the MBoard only has 2 slots so wenn some one delivers 16 GB SoDimms you will be able to go to 32 and the 27" to 64 but till that happens those are the Max numbers.
Apple Memory prices have always been out of this world.
I just don't get it. These items are already spec'd. I may buy one anyways as my 2009 is getting a bit creaky, however I really wish Appke would put in current port tech,
Macbook pro $1500
2 monitors $400
Apple Mouse $80
Apple keyboard $100
Docking station $100
Face time camera $30
Cable organizing kit $30
Stereo Speakers $30
Microphone $20
Total - $2190
Instead of just buying a 27inch 5k iMac with fusion drive for $1899?
I don't know about a dock. The Henge docks are $400. I don't think that is a good solution but you would still need two TB to VGA adapters at $30 each for those crappy 24" monitors.
You've gone doolally making spurious lists of all the things such a solution would require, but entirely glossed over a mega advantage of it. Take your computer with you when you want. Not niche, mobile is winning. Proportionally less people buy desktops every year (I think that's still true, right?) because of these very advantages.
Sure, if you totally ignore the major advantage of one solution then another solution might be preferable, but that proves jack all.
Do you think maybe, just maybe, a person advocating using a laptop with a docking station, monitor and accessories might have the errant thought of taking the laptop putside once in a while?
This thread got way off on a tangent. I merely mentioned that the 27" was ideal for iOS development as you could have all the Xcode panels open at the same time, which immediately brought on a storm of ridiculous criticism from someone who I imagine is more of a Windows troll rather than an iOS developer, at least based on the crappy dual monitors he recommended. "Game, Set, Match!" what a bunch of arrogant BS.
Mobile is good and we mostly all have MBP or Airs when we are on the go. But, the 27" iMac 5K is, in my opinion, the absolute best machine for iOS development, hands down and that was what was being contested. Honestly, some people are so mobile centric they will sacrifice everything else such as ergonomics, vision, cramped keyboard, no mouse, no time machine, sketchy public WiFi, lack of firewall and risky physical security, all for the sake of being mobile. Personally, I have 5 computers and a couple iPads so I have the luxury of using which ever computer and location best suits my needs. If you have only one computer then a MBP makes sense but one should not start criticizing someone who has the resources to own any computer they want just because you can't and then try to move the goal posts to say that the notebook is better for the general public when the original comment was exclusively about iOS development, which is certainly not the general public.
Right. The mainstream portable user would. It buy a bunch of extra monitors and input devices.
Mainstream.
Do you think maybe, just maybe, a person advocating using a laptop with a docking station, monitor and accessories might have the errant thought of taking the laptop putside once in a while?
This thread got way off on a tangent. I merely mentioned that the 27" was ideal for iOS development as you could have all the Xcode panels open at the same time, which immediately brought on a storm of ridiculous criticism from someone who I imagine is more of a Windows troll rather than an iOS developer, at least based on the crappy dual monitors he recommended. "Game, Set, Match!" what a bunch of arrogant BS.
Mobile is good and we mostly all have MBP or Airs when we are on the go. But, the 27" iMac 5K is, in my opinion, the absolute best machine for iOS development, hands down and that was what was being contested. Honestly, some people are so mobile centric they will sacrifice everything else such as ergonomics, vision, cramped keyboard, no mouse, no time machine, sketchy public WiFi, lack of firewall and risky physical security, all for the sake of being mobile. Personally, I have 5 computers and a couple iPads so I have the luxury of using which ever computer and location best suits my needs. If you have only one computer then a MBP makes sense but one should not start criticizing someone who has the resources to own any computer they want just because you can't and then try to move the goal posts to say that the notebook is better for the general public when the original comment was exclusively about iOS development, which is certainly not the general public.
I used to have a dual 19-20" monitor set up for CAD/technical drawing, but found that even a single, larger 24" 1920x1200 monitor centered in front of me was better for focus. I kept one of the small monitors off to the side for messaging or just to have a secondary screen if I needed to reference some other document while working on main monitor.
Now that I have a 27" Retina iMac...well, let me just say that I am so freaking spoiled now. It's amazing how good even images embedded in web sites can look, never mind the sharp linework in CAD and PDF building plans and technical drawings. I think the base 27" Retina is still not much more than a separate 5K monitor only--and the PC needed to drive that separate 5K can be fairly pricey in a hurry.
I kept the small monitor off to the side of the iMac, but I rarely use it now. It's hard to look at! Everything is so fuzzy by comparison.
While I don't think a pair of 1920x1080 monitors is horrible, I can't believe anyone would tout this configuration as anything other than "good enough."
The I mac retina is a all in one computer with a large screen of very high definition (and now a large gamut)
The only major cons for me , is just one HD or SSD.
Basically the I mac Take the place of a screen, you do not have any waste of place. The other good point is no noise.
Simple looking design, at a premium price.
I'm not sure where you get that idea. The 27" iMac largely sells to professionals. As such this machine is a huge disappointment.
Baloneey. Beyond that adapters to deliver and old style USB port would be dirt cheap. Even worst Apple just upgraded Keyboards and other devices and failed to transition to the new port standards.
Unfortunately it is the Pro user that least needs these upgrades.
I'm an iMac fan. But I have to agree with the Wizard here on this.
4k on the 21 incher. Great. Skylake on the 27 incher? Meh.
This is a nickel and diming update.
Lemon Bon Bon.
No USB-C! That is asinine for a flagship desktop. Makes you wonder who's driving at Apple.
My initial impression from the spec sheet is that there is nothing to write home about here. It is almost as if Apple engineers on the iMac team don't know what is happening on the Mac Book, iPad and other hardware lines.
What he said. IN spades.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I can't imagine many honest and glowing reviews over this "new" hardware. Read the specs and it is pretty obvious the bean counters have taken over at Apple. The "new " storage solutions are pathetic to say the least. This especially if the intent is to offer up hardware to support the video processing markets.
Spot on.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Thunderbolt 3? USB 3.1 type C (reversible) generation 2? Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad with built-in USB 3.1 hub? SDXC reader with UHS-II maximum speed (300 MB/s read/write)?
I guess you'd have to ask Uncle Phil about that...
Lemon Bon Bon.
These would have been passable machines if introduced in the Spring of 2015 but they are a bit of a joke now.
Underwhelming. Certainly. Yes. Half a year late.
Sure, 4k for the 21incher is great. But a 5400rpm HD?! The best and worst of Apple.
A mediocre update.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm rejecting your rejection! If you pay good money for the high end model you should get something for it. That would be two 8GB DIMM modules which are actually trivially priced these days. It isn't like the machines introduce modern memory systems either, over all a pathetic update.
Agreed. Even more trivial for a company with 200 billion in the bank.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Next year is the HBM2 year for GPGPUs. I have no desire to buy any AIO system when < 12 months later HBM2 Memory up to 32GB becomes reality.
I'll just pick up a new Mac mini for novel writing and wait for a real system based GPU that is coming. The AMD Radeon Fury Nano makes it clear that GPGPUs are going big, while their total surface area is shrinking rapidly.
2015 is the wasted year in traditional computing. That goes for desktop, laptop and workstation options.
I've read plenty of posts on Macrumors and Appleinsider on this 'astro turf' (well, even I had trouble eating Uncle Phil's hyperbole this time...) and your post is right on the money. Anybody with half a brain should wait for about 12 months before buying an iMac or any other type of machine.
2015 is a non-event or yes, 'wasted' in terms of traditional computing. Glacial, incremental improvements. Put really in the shade by the computing power offered by e.g.. iPad Pro for much less coin.
gpGPU power is set to get the biggest boost in years with HBM2 next year. Massive jump in VRAM for 4k/5K work. Probably 50-100% gains from process shift, design and the HBM2 Vram boost. (What? 8 gigs standard?) And should run way cooler too. Only then will we have the power to really throw around those 4/5k screens.
In fairness, no GPUs out there really 'throw' around 4k/5k work in 3D at the moment. Pretty much in the 30/60 fps range from the many single gpus I've seen.
And what really ticks me off by the review sites. None are really mentioning that the 'new' AMD card in the iMac is just rebadged. AMD rebadged all but their Fury line.
Tellingly, Apple (who are usually quite boastful about gpu improvements) have nothing much to say about the GPU power of the 'new' 395MX (unless I missed the link?) Does it put the 295MX in the shade? :P
Why didn't Apple include the 990 Nvidia? Political spat? Not that it matters much. Mdrift's point holds true.
I'll be selling my iMac flagship from two years ago. Buying an iPad Pro for pre-vis'. Next year, IF Apple pass on the VRAM of HBM2 to the customer and include some SSD as standard, I'll buy a 5K iMac.
The current up sell is unworthy. Ram, HD, GPU, CPU? All mediocre 'updates.'
Lemon Bon Bon.