How far is too far? win2k and SP3

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
ok, i've been waiting for someone to pick up on this, but i swear i haven't seen a thing so far, so i'll start up a thread.



if it's already been done, please ignore this.



now, i'm sure i'm not the only person on these boards that uses both Macs and PC's on a daily basis. i have both at home, both at work, and i have always seen the merits of both sides.



that is, until about a month ago.



it all started simply enough. MS released the latest security patch for WMP 7. consensus was that this was a serious security problem, and should be patched ASAP.



that's where the first problem came in. to get the patch, you had to agree to an EULA that stated that MS could install DRM tools w/o notifying you at any time, as long as they posted notification at "some web page".



i was understandably perturbed by this, and decided i'd rather just ditch WMP completely, i never really used it much to begin with.



then came Service Pack 3 for windows 2k. now i have a real problem. now MS wants to check my machine for all registration codes i have for all MS software, OS, other 3rd party software, as well as hardware ID's, and then send the info back to MS. on top of that, there's the same crap about installing DRM tools w/o consent, this time with no mention of notification.



what the hell am i supposed to do now? SP3 came out 'cause there are problems that need to be fixed. however, to fix the problems i have to agree to something that i'm dead set against.



this sucks. i like win2k, but i don't like it that much! why the hell should i sign over my privacy in order to get a product that functions safely and properly?



dunno, for me this was the last straw. my PC hasn't been turned on in two weeks now. i'm sick of all this crap.



how far are people willing to let this go before they're say enough is enough?



for everyone who's pissed off about the price of Macs, or the lack of Mhz, ask yourself what your privacy is worth.



-alcimedes
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,259member
    Alcimedes. I'm facing the SAME issue. I have Win2k Desktop and Server and with SP3 came I did nothing. I just new in addition to bug fixes there would be some BS crap in there and once the reports started coming in my fears were justified.



    Personally I think legislation should be enacted that prevent ANY Developer from adding code to updates that infringe on a users privacy as a condition of getting the upgrade.





    We purchased an OS not some Jukebox to charge us or watch over what we do.



    My days even putting up with the Wintel crap are coming to an end. I will NOT put up with this crap.



    I'll move to Linux before I give up my privacy rights(assuming that Apple does the same boneheaded thing..which I hope they don't)
  • Reply 2 of 31
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    To me, they crossed the line a long tome ago.



    I am fed up with SpyWare, back doors, and deceptive contracts. An operating system should not limit the computers potential, gather and send information on it's users, or install programs behind your back.



    A computer is an adaptive, multi-purpose tool bought and controlled by me! Get it Micro$oft! Me. Owner. NOT renter of your OS. I will be in control of my computer! (Or die trying )
  • Reply 3 of 31
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Wouldn´t this be like if Mercedes had a serious problem with their brakes and had to offer to fix it for free because they had sold an unsafe and unfinished product but only would do that if they were allowed to go to your house and take pictures of the inventory in it?



    To put conditions on such importent fixes must be a violation of some law.
  • Reply 4 of 31
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Wow. That's just low down and dirty, really. If they want to change the agreement, that's up to them. But if they are fixing a security flaw AND changing the agreement, it's coercion. It's like them saying "I've got a gun to your head, agree to this or else" ok, it's not that extreme but it's close. When is this going to make the right people mad? How long will it take? Who knows. MS seems to be tempting fate, though.
  • Reply 5 of 31
    xmogerxmoger Posts: 242member
    With respect to WMP, I didn't notice this. I've bought some music at towerrecords before secured with 'liquidaudio'. AFAIK its no longer supported and I forgot to copy my license when I upgraded to win2k. I tried salvaging the songs with a reverse engineered decrypting tool, but it screwed up the sound quality. I suppose this is the sort of thing ms is trying to prevent.

    From eula.txt:

    [quote]Digital Rights Management (Security).Â* You agree that in order to protect the integrity of content and software protected by digital rights management ("Secure Content"), Microsoft may provide security related updates to the OS Components that will be automatically downloaded onto your computer.Â* These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer.Â* If we provide such a security update, we will use reasonable efforts to post notices on a web site explaining the update. <hr></blockquote>I suppose if another media player that supported a protection mechanism that WMP supports became popular, MS could try to disable it. I doubt they would do something so flagrant though.



    The version checking in sp3 is for the automatic update feature. I think the default setting is for it to download updates and prompt for installation, but it can be disabled altogether.
  • Reply 6 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,259member
    [quote]Originally posted by torifile:

    <strong>Wow. That's just low down and dirty, really. If they want to change the agreement, that's up to them. But if they are fixing a security flaw AND changing the agreement, it's coercion. It's like them saying "I've got a gun to your head, agree to this or else" ok, it's not that extreme but it's close. When is this going to make the right people mad? How long will it take? Who knows. MS seems to be tempting fate, though.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes and it's really pathetic. You bring it up to PC users and they just put their heads into the sand. Perhaps they're too focused on the trivial AMD/Intel megahertz battles that seem to inflict PC messageboards all too often.



    We all know that the Killer App for PC's is Piracy. Once that's gone..where do they go...linux I guess or OSX if they're smart



  • Reply 7 of 31
    Why don't you give microsoft the shaft and find a crack on hotline or another piracy program that will hack the installer so you dont get that stupid message asking for all your private information. 95% of computer users out there use pc's, Im sure there are many of them like you and Im sure out of the handful that are they have made a crack. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />



    [ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: MrBojanglez50 ]</p>
  • Reply 8 of 31
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Registration codes?



    Are you sure about that?
  • Reply 9 of 31
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    you want to know the real problem with cracking the DRM stuff that's being put on my computer?



    there's a damn good chance that would make me a criminal under the <a href="http://anti-dmca.org/"; target="_blank">DMCA</a>.



    the other thing that really bothers me is that there is a damn good chance that this will disable a third party software solution to ripping my music to MP3's or other formats on my PC, if i want to store them there.



    i have hundreds of CD's. many of them over the years have become pretty scratched and are hard to read. i like to copy those over to another format so i can reburn them when i want to be able to listen to them, as well as archive them before the CD is completely unreadable.



    at the same time, i don't have a cd player than can hold all of my cd's, let alone sort through them and make playlists like Winamp can.



    that EULA expressly states that MS has the right to disable my ability to space shift my own damn music, with or without notifying me!



    punk ass mother ****ing cock sucking donkey punching little hamster ramming bastards can piss off!



    it my goddamn machine, and my music. i like to listen to it where and when i please. i can't believe they'd have the balls to try and take that away.



    dunno, i used to be bothered by some stuff on the Mac platform. now i see where the PC platform is heading, and i'm damn glad i started using Macs when i did.



    toss <a href="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-939817.html"; target="_blank">palladium</a> into the mix and you've just tied everything up very nicely.



    talk about a flood of switch campaign ads.



    "my name is eric, and i wanted to keep my own nutsack"



    -alcimedes
  • Reply 10 of 31
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    groverat, here are the pertinant sections.



    [quote]"By using these features, you explicitly authorize Microsoft or its designated agent to access and utilize the necessary information for updating purposes. Microsoft may use this information solely to improve our products or to provide customized services or technologies to you. Microsoft may disclose this information to others, but not in a form that personally identifies you.



    "* The OS Product or OS Components contain components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the OS Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the OS Product that will be automatically downloaded to your computer."



    And you can see the Windows Update end of the deal if you look here, provided of course you haven't already used the IE-hiding capabilities of SP3. If you have, no matter, it says it's collecting: "Operating-system version number and Product Identification number, Internet Explorer version number, Version numbers of other software, Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices." <hr></blockquote>



    damn scary if you ask me.
  • Reply 11 of 31
    thuh freakthuh freak Posts: 2,664member
    "Thank God for Macintosh"



    i heard about this kind of idea. it was something i feared ms would do, but i never thot they would really do it. it just reaffirms my dislike for the crapony, i mean, company. i hayt ms.
  • Reply 12 of 31
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Funny thing. Apple is bleeding edge when ot comes to new technologies and software. MS follow up around 3-4 years later. MS is bleeding edge when it comes to outrageous buisness models and Apple follow up 3-4 years later.
  • Reply 13 of 31
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Ok, so you were wrong about the whole "now MS wants to check my machine for all registration codes i have for all MS software, OS, other 3rd party software, as well as hardware ID's, and then send the info back to MS." thing.



    Good, glad we got that cleared up.
  • Reply 14 of 31
    With Windows XP, I hear that SP1 is going to check and see who is running a group license copy of the OS (leaked corporate licnese). In other words, if you got a copy of XP Pro from a buddy at work or school with an open and multiple license (no need to activate) and installed it at home, SP1 will match the reg code to a database and will flag a discrepancy to the registrar (the school or company) and question it. I am not sure if this will make it into SP1, but if it does, I guess this is how they are putting a stop to people robbing their OS and getting around the activation process (which is a grueling one button push 4 second process). <a href="http://www.theregus.com/content/4/25681.html"; target="_blank">Better explanation here.</a>



    [ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 31
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>Ok, so you were wrong about the whole "now MS wants to check my machine for all registration codes i have for all MS software, OS, other 3rd party software, as well as hardware ID's, and then send the info back to MS." thing.



    Good, glad we got that cleared up. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Um, hate to reopen the wound, but all that information issent to MS when you register WinXP.
  • Reply 16 of 31
    xmogerxmoger Posts: 242member
    [quote]Um, hate to reopen the wound, but all that information issent to MS when you register WinXP. <hr></blockquote>Actually registration, activation and windows update are all different things. That information is used by the windows update webpage and automatic updates.<a href="http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/about.asp"; target="_blank">windows update</a>

    I don't understand why people are up in arms. If you don't like DRM, don't buy protected content. If you don't want automatic update calling MS, disable it.
  • Reply 17 of 31
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    [quote]Originally posted by Anders:

    <strong>Funny thing. Apple is bleeding edge when ot comes to new technologies and software. MS follow up around 3-4 years later. MS is bleeding edge when it comes to outrageous buisness models and Apple follow up 3-4 years later.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That sounds like what will happen, but I don't think Apple has yet ever truly implemented an M$ business model.



    Besides, Apple lives on hardware, they can afford (to a degree) to let piracy be their killer app.



    Maybe we should all start tinkering with Linux now, just so we can be ready for the day when roll your own is the only way to get a computer that obeys your commands before those of some other company.
  • Reply 18 of 31
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    [quote]"Operating-system version number and Product Identification number, Internet Explorer version number, Version numbers of other software, Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices<hr></blockquote>



    um, which part of this don't you understand?



    yeah, i know it's windows update, not the OS itself that's doing it. what i want to know is am i really expected to look up every single patch for every single system that i run? now i have to go and set up each machine by hand, hoping that i'm getting every update that i need?



    also, how many people actually went ahead and read that windows automatic update EULA before they went ahead and clicked "OK" to patch the security holes in their OS.



    secondly, what the hell are they asking for this information for anyway? why in the world would they possibly need it?



    i'm supposed to send them info on my software and hardware so they know which DRM crap to install on my machine w/o my consent?



    so groverat, how long you going to run with no automatic windows update before you start missing security patches and important updates? how long is it going to take you to update that reinstall of win2k you know is coming down the road now that you have to look up each patch one by one.



    are you going to know for sure which ones are specifically for your machine, and which you don't need?



    this is the biggest screw job MS has tried to pull in years. i have no idea how you can sit there and say it's not that big of a deal 'cause you can just turn off auto updates. how long until it's not something you can turn off. how long until you get another WMP situation where a security pacth requires DRM authorization?



    this is crap and you know it. how in the hell can you defend this kind of behavior? why is this DRM crap necessary at all anyway?
  • Reply 19 of 31
    Glad I "switched" to Linux.
  • Reply 20 of 31
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