Right tool for the right job, yes, it just feels for me like iOS is covering more and more bases that only OS X used to cover. Still, I do love the look of the new MacBook, but I am leaning toward an iPad Pro (with keyboard) - decisions, decisions!
I wanted a tablet ever since the year 2000. I could never justify buying one because they all cost 50% more than an equivalent laptop. In 2010, Apple "disrupted" the tablet market by pricing the iPad at HALF THE PRICE of a MacBook.
Microsofties think they have the solution -- the SurfaceBook. There is no equivalent Microsoft laptop, so the SurfaceBook can't cost 50% more! Sure, the SurfaceBook costs much more than a similar Dell, HP, or Lenovo laptop. Microsoft is paying reviewers not to notice, and is hoping that consumers won't figure this out on their own.
The ultimate truth is that the SurfaceBook is the 2015 evolution of Microsoft's Y2K tablet design: a Microsoft Office/Windows machine in tablet form. Unfortunately for Microsoft after all these years, Office still requires a keyboard, a pointer, and a powerful CPU.
There is a word for trying the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
>>The more tablet-like Surface Pro 4 "lasted just shy of six hours in tablet mode."
Microsoft said on its web site Surface Pro 4
"Battery life Up to 9 hours of video playback2"
This large discrepancy is one of the major reasons I never consider a Windows PC.
"2 Up to 9 hours of video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in September 2015 using preproduction Intel® Core™ i5, 256GB, 8GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network. Battery life varies significantly with settings, usage, and other factors."
"I am puzzled why Apple introduced the Smart Keyboard Cover"
---
A keyboard is a requirement to use Microsoft Office successfully. Think of it as 1997 in reverse. Apple designed an OPTIONAL keyboard for the PRO, and invited Microsoft to present at the PRO's debut. Microsoft used the opportunity to demo an updated Microsoft Office??? Meanwhile, Apple did not use the keyboard in it's demos. It did not use the pencil as a pointing device, either.
So you thought a keyboard and stylus were needed with even the original iPads? So why did some members here dismiss/ridicule keyboards and styli for other tablets when it was mentioned? Seems silly then in retrospect especially since Apple themselves saw a need for them.
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
Modbook. They are amazing to use. They suffer from one problem only, the company has to buy retail Macbook Pros, and convert them, making the price astronomical.
And the Surface is pretty good, it's major drawback is Windows. Same hardware running OS X = dream machine.
I found both to be terrible. Yes, if it turns you on, then you'll like it. I find people often think something is good because it's something they really want, and are willing to overlook all the deficiencies.
I can't believe this garbage came up in my "news" feed. All it does is confirm that every stereotype I've ever heard about Apple sheep is absolutely true. Even the most obnoxious satire of iTards I've encountered is tame compared to the real thing as evidenced by this editorial trash.
I think people should be given the option. That doesn't mean that they will need it. But for some things, the options are good. While a fair number of artists, some very well known, use their finger with their iPads to draw and paint, others would rather use the stylus. It's just a difference that artists have in any medium.
As far as keyboards go, I do all my posting on my iPad without a keyboard, and that's fine, even though I can post a lot in a day. But if I were doing lengthy writing, I might prefer a mechanical keyboard, or use my Mac.
Being realistic, no device is perfect for everything. Anyone who claims that it is, is either naïve or not being truthful.
My spidey sense was tingling that this article was eminent after reading the back and forth between @DanVM and @anantksundaram in the forums from this article:
And the Surface is pretty good, it's major drawback is Windows. Same hardware running OS X = dream machine.
That is a pretty big drawback (assuming you want an operating system other than Windows).
I find a lot of people look at things that are not that important for their use cases which in the end only become epeen measuring contests. People wanting the top end of a processor because it is 5% faster than this other processor -- while using a computer that has the processor running 85% idle -- and a lot less powerful.
I would say getting quality hardware that actually runs the operating system environment you want - to be much more important than pretty much anything else.
As you say, use the right tool for the job. On that "Note" I can't imagine a use case for an 18.4" tablet that will soon hit the market. Epitome of throwing things at the wall . . ..
...not meant to waylay the thread either. It was just worth mentioning IMO.
That is an odd size. Carrying a Surface or iPad Pro isn't a problem, but a tablet that big has got to sit on a table somewhere.
I've been an ardent Apple fan and back in 2005 even predicted that Apple would lead as a tech company. I called this process of Apple resurgence somewhat awkwardly as "Appleution" -- the Apple led revolution in tech industry.
However, now I am bearish on Apple. Daniel Eran Dilger desperately tries to trash Microsoft by backing his arguments with the past Apple profits and growth. But as everybody knows the past performance is no guarantee of future success.
Steve Jobs said that Tim Cook is not a product guy. Exactly. Cook argued that merging a tablet with a laptop is akin to merging a toaster with a refrigerator. His naive and misguided argument just shows that he has no clue about products.
Merging a tablet and a laptop is more like merging a freezer and a refrigerator. Why would you want to keep them separate? And Microsoft is precisely on the right path. While I still very much like Mac OS and use a Macbook Pro as my main laptop, iOS is becoming a joke. So Cook's desperate attempt to catch up with Surface by producing iOS based iPad Pro just further pushes iPad toward being a toaster. Apple record breaking profits won't last.
I think Microsoft is starting to get it right and Apple "Die Hards" don't like competition or see Bloggers for once actually agree that Microsoft has become the new innovator of devices.
This article only solidifies an outsiders perspective of that when you refer to Microsofts long lost Monopoly. If anything Apple is the Monopoly in every aspect. Or that Bloggers are selling out because for once they are actually praising Microsoft for its new devices, which was something Microsoft felt was necessary to create a laptop that could go head to head with the MacBook Pro to rejuvenate the slumping PC market.
All Apple has really been doing over the past few years isn't really innovative at all and people are starting to see that. Take "Force Touch" for example and how all they did was upgrade the trackpad on a MacBook & integrated it into the screen for the Apple Watch. Or 3D Touch which is just force touch plain & simple nothing really new.
And that's why it's easy to see that people are getting a little less excited with every new upgraded devices Apple unveils every year. You can say that my statement is wrong by posting all the sales figures you want, but it's easy to see that haven't gone down & only continue to grow. But that growth mainly is due to lack of a serious contender that has created devices that only try to copy or chase Apple design features, but Microsoft has been working to change that when it came out with the original Surface. They didn't give in when it failed to catch the publics attention, but that all changed with Surface Pro 3 and now you see that it's Microsoft, not Apple, that people are seeing as new & innovative when it comes to devices.
Do you understand the definition of monopoly? Go look it up please. Apple is nowhere close to being a monopoly in anything.
The Surface has a minuscule marketshare. In the past 12 months, going by the sales dollars they posted in their financials, there were no more than about 3 million Surface tablets sold for the entire year. That's nothing.
If you only have one computing device your experience is going to be compromised and very limited in scope. Combo/hybrid anything is usually pretty awful. Not that I have tried it, but the Surface looks like a terrible tablet and a terrible computer. I'm just thankful I can afford lots of devices/computers. That way I always have the right tool for the job.
Somebody mentioned remote desktop apps, ive only tried some of the android ones. And while the ipad pro has pretty decent specs backacing it i dont see the apple remote desktop apps being professionp quality.
It would be a big boon being able to use an ipad with a cintiq quality pressure pen along with the support for the adobe programs.
Would you still need a mouse tho? Do you really want to do remote desktop work with the touch screen
I completely agree. Those people that think OS X should be touch enabled must either have weirdly clean fingers or really bad eyes, that they're thinking they'll not to see smudge marks on their screen. It's one thing with an iPad or iPhone where you can literally just quickly wipe the screen on your shirt sleeve, but going bigger means the problem would be greater. Of course the use-case for touching the screen when you have full ability to do anything on screen using the trackpad makes needing to touch the screen a non-starter, which I just don't understand why people don't understand this? Maybe it's just PC user who has had to live with really bad trackpad functionality that makes them think touching the screen is the better solution?
But touch screen notebooks have not sold well. For the windows user, they're simply too expensive. Another problem that Surface cheerleaders fail to recognize, is that there is virtually no software for Windows that is made for touch. Or for a stylus. Yes, of course, much of it will work with touch or a stylus, but not well. It's not like android or iOS where apps are specifically written for touch.
"Apple's introduction video consistency portrays iPad Pro as a large iPad, noting only momentarily that its Apple Pencil can be used to draw with precision on the screen."
From what I've been reading / seeing, this is the biggest criticism potential Pro buyers have of the iPad Pro - that it's just a bigger iPad. Deep down they wish it was running OSX, not iOS.
OSX isnt supposed to be used with a touch screen .... No sense in looking for OS X on an iPad ....
Indeed OSX had no touch screen, but some OSX features would really be welcome on a professional iPad.
A decent app that can manage all locally stored data files, to start with. It is OK to manage your data files from within an app if you have 10 documents, but it is becoming a knightmare if you have 1000 documents.
Indeed OSX had no touch screen, but some OSX features would really be welcome on a professional iPad.
A decent app that can manage all locally stored data files, to start with. It is OK to manage your data files from within an app if you have 10 documents, but it is becoming a knightmare if you have 1000 documents.
We seem to be getting there. I've always though that Apple would be maki g their devices more sophisticated as technology allowed it. And that's what's happening. Eventually, all iPads will have 4GB RAM. That obviously allows larger files to be used, and affects multitasking and speed. Faster SoCs allow more complex apps that require more computation to function properly.
Basically, this simply follows that way computers have developed over the years. No computer OS could work on a computer from over 10 years ago, nor should it be expected to. ARM development, and that of the associated GPU, has developed faster than x86 in the past few years, mostly thanks to Apple, as the rest race to catch up. The A9, and particularly the A9x are now in x86 territory, and means a lot. It was not expected that this could happen just a few years ago.
The Pro marks a period where we should see more of what we would like. Apple mov s slowly, at times, but they have a goal, and each new product is a step closer to it.
I've been an ardent Apple fan and back in 2005 even predicted that Apple would lead as a tech company. I called this process of Apple resurgence somewhat awkwardly as "Appleution" -- the Apple led revolution in tech industry.
However, now I am bearish on Apple. Daniel Eran Dilger desperately tries to trash Microsoft by backing his arguments with the past Apple profits and growth. But as everybody knows the past performance is no guarantee of future success.
Steve Jobs said that Tim Cook is not a product guy. Exactly. Cook argued that merging a tablet with a laptop is akin to merging a toaster with a refrigerator. His naive and misguided argument just shows that he has no clue about products.
Merging a tablet and a laptop is more like merging a freezer and a refrigerator. Why would you want to keep them separate? And Microsoft is precisely on the right path. While I still very much like Mac OS and use a Macbook Pro as my main laptop, iOS is becoming a joke. So Cook's desperate attempt to catch up with Surface by producing iOS based iPad Pro just further pushes iPad toward being a toaster. Apple record breaking profits won't last.
Do you really use Apple products? It doesn't seem likely. You don't seem to have any idea of what they do, and how they work. The Pro isn't anything like the Surface.
Comments
Right tool for the right job, yes, it just feels for me like iOS is covering more and more bases that only OS X used to cover. Still, I do love the look of the new MacBook, but I am leaning toward an iPad Pro (with keyboard) - decisions, decisions!
It is great to have such choice.....
Microsofties think they have the solution -- the SurfaceBook. There is no equivalent Microsoft laptop, so the SurfaceBook can't cost 50% more! Sure, the SurfaceBook costs much more than a similar Dell, HP, or Lenovo laptop. Microsoft is paying reviewers not to notice, and is hoping that consumers won't figure this out on their own.
The ultimate truth is that the SurfaceBook is the 2015 evolution of Microsoft's Y2K tablet design: a Microsoft Office/Windows machine in tablet form. Unfortunately for Microsoft after all these years, Office still requires a keyboard, a pointer, and a powerful CPU.
There is a word for trying the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
>>The more tablet-like Surface Pro 4 "lasted just shy of six hours in tablet mode."
Microsoft said on its web site Surface Pro 4
"Battery life Up to 9 hours of video playback2"
This large discrepancy is one of the major reasons I never consider a Windows PC.
"2 Up to 9 hours of video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in September 2015 using preproduction Intel® Core™ i5, 256GB, 8GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network. Battery life varies significantly with settings, usage, and other factors."
Originally Posted by mr o
"I am puzzled why Apple introduced the Smart Keyboard Cover"
---
A keyboard is a requirement to use Microsoft Office successfully. Think of it as 1997 in reverse. Apple designed an OPTIONAL keyboard for the PRO, and invited Microsoft to present at the PRO's debut. Microsoft used the opportunity to demo an updated Microsoft Office??? Meanwhile, Apple did not use the keyboard in it's demos. It did not use the pencil as a pointing device, either.
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
I found both to be terrible. Yes, if it turns you on, then you'll like it. I find people often think something is good because it's something they really want, and are willing to overlook all the deficiencies.
I think people should be given the option. That doesn't mean that they will need it. But for some things, the options are good. While a fair number of artists, some very well known, use their finger with their iPads to draw and paint, others would rather use the stylus. It's just a difference that artists have in any medium.
As far as keyboards go, I do all my posting on my iPad without a keyboard, and that's fine, even though I can post a lot in a day. But if I were doing lengthy writing, I might prefer a mechanical keyboard, or use my Mac.
Being realistic, no device is perfect for everything. Anyone who claims that it is, is either naïve or not being truthful.
>>The more tablet-like Surface Pro 4 "lasted just shy of six hours in tablet mode."
Microsoft said on its web site Surface Pro 4 "
This large discrepancy is one of the major reasons I never consider a Windows PC.
Didn't you get the memo? Ridiculously expensive Half baked tablet merged with half baked notebook makes full baked innovations! /s
My spidey sense was tingling that this article was eminent after reading the back and forth between @DanVM and @anantksundaram in the forums from this article:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/23/microsoft-represents-only-serious-competition-for-apple-hardware-ballmer-says
And the Surface is pretty good, it's major drawback is Windows. Same hardware running OS X = dream machine.
That is a pretty big drawback (assuming you want an operating system other than Windows).
I find a lot of people look at things that are not that important for their use cases which in the end only become epeen measuring contests. People wanting the top end of a processor because it is 5% faster than this other processor -- while using a computer that has the processor running 85% idle -- and a lot less powerful.
I would say getting quality hardware that actually runs the operating system environment you want - to be much more important than pretty much anything else.
That is an odd size. Carrying a Surface or iPad Pro isn't a problem, but a tablet that big has got to sit on a table somewhere.
I've been an ardent Apple fan and back in 2005 even predicted that Apple would lead as a tech company. I called this process of Apple resurgence somewhat awkwardly as "Appleution" -- the Apple led revolution in tech industry.
However, now I am bearish on Apple. Daniel Eran Dilger desperately tries to trash Microsoft by backing his arguments with the past Apple profits and growth. But as everybody knows the past performance is no guarantee of future success.
Steve Jobs said that Tim Cook is not a product guy. Exactly. Cook argued that merging a tablet with a laptop is akin to merging a toaster with a refrigerator. His naive and misguided argument just shows that he has no clue about products.
Merging a tablet and a laptop is more like merging a freezer and a refrigerator. Why would you want to keep them separate? And Microsoft is precisely on the right path. While I still very much like Mac OS and use a Macbook Pro as my main laptop, iOS is becoming a joke. So Cook's desperate attempt to catch up with Surface by producing iOS based iPad Pro just further pushes iPad toward being a toaster. Apple record breaking profits won't last.
Do you understand the definition of monopoly? Go look it up please. Apple is nowhere close to being a monopoly in anything.
The Surface has a minuscule marketshare. In the past 12 months, going by the sales dollars they posted in their financials, there were no more than about 3 million Surface tablets sold for the entire year. That's nothing.
If you only have one computing device your experience is going to be compromised and very limited in scope. Combo/hybrid anything is usually pretty awful. Not that I have tried it, but the Surface looks like a terrible tablet and a terrible computer. I'm just thankful I can afford lots of devices/computers. That way I always have the right tool for the job.
It would be a big boon being able to use an ipad with a cintiq quality pressure pen along with the support for the adobe programs.
Would you still need a mouse tho? Do you really want to do remote desktop work with the touch screen
But touch screen notebooks have not sold well. For the windows user, they're simply too expensive. Another problem that Surface cheerleaders fail to recognize, is that there is virtually no software for Windows that is made for touch. Or for a stylus. Yes, of course, much of it will work with touch or a stylus, but not well. It's not like android or iOS where apps are specifically written for touch.
"Apple's introduction video consistency portrays iPad Pro as a large iPad, noting only momentarily that its Apple Pencil can be used to draw with precision on the screen."
From what I've been reading / seeing, this is the biggest criticism potential Pro buyers have of the iPad Pro - that it's just a bigger iPad. Deep down they wish it was running OSX, not iOS.
OSX isnt supposed to be used with a touch screen .... No sense in looking for OS X on an iPad ....
Indeed OSX had no touch screen, but some OSX features would really be welcome on a professional iPad.
A decent app that can manage all locally stored data files, to start with. It is OK to manage your data files from within an app if you have 10 documents, but it is becoming a knightmare if you have 1000 documents.
We seem to be getting there. I've always though that Apple would be maki g their devices more sophisticated as technology allowed it. And that's what's happening. Eventually, all iPads will have 4GB RAM. That obviously allows larger files to be used, and affects multitasking and speed. Faster SoCs allow more complex apps that require more computation to function properly.
Basically, this simply follows that way computers have developed over the years. No computer OS could work on a computer from over 10 years ago, nor should it be expected to. ARM development, and that of the associated GPU, has developed faster than x86 in the past few years, mostly thanks to Apple, as the rest race to catch up. The A9, and particularly the A9x are now in x86 territory, and means a lot. It was not expected that this could happen just a few years ago.
The Pro marks a period where we should see more of what we would like. Apple mov s slowly, at times, but they have a goal, and each new product is a step closer to it.
Do you really use Apple products? It doesn't seem likely. You don't seem to have any idea of what they do, and how they work. The Pro isn't anything like the Surface.