Wow talk about bad timing, with VW now offering to bribe their owners so they don't get sued for rigging the EPA tests. (Shades of samsung... (engineering software to recognize benchmark tests being run and engineering them to cheat on them, so your products appear better then they actually are, so you can deceive customers. What does that say about a company and how they regard their customers?))
Actually the $1,000 per vehicle "bribe" (or whatever the actual amount is) would probably be more than whatever comes from any class-action lawsuits. In a class-action the real winners are the law firms.
Actually the $1,000 per vehicle "bribe" (or whatever the actual amount is) would probably be more than whatever comes from any class-action lawsuits. In a class-action the real winners are the law firms.
That's true. I've gotten a bunch of mailings from different law firms asking me to call them. Unless you get in as the named plaintiff you get a free oil change and a $20 coupon off your next car.
...And the MPG AND the performance is up with the cheat engaged. That is a fact...
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you're wrong. You say when the cheat is "engaged" performance is up, fuel-efficiency (mpg) is up and – the whole point of the cheat – emissions are down. If so, that would be the PERFECT software setting for the car.
What am I (or you) missing?
Disclaimer: I love my TDI (2014 sportwagon). I love the power and the fuel-efficiency. But I routinely get 3 to 4 mpg less then the car's trip computer indicates. I can't help wondering if that's another "cheat", one meant to satisfy drivers who don't bother calculating their mpg each tankfull.
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you're wrong. You say when the cheat is "engaged" performance is up, fuel-efficiency (mpg) is up and – the whole point of the cheat – emissions are down. If so, that would be the PERFECT software setting for the car.
What am I (or you) missing?
I think he means that the "cheat" is on when the performance is on - the normal mode should have been the testing mode.
So the "cheat" unlocks the power and MPG, but pollutes more.
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you're wrong. You say when the cheat is "engaged" performance is up, fuel-efficient (mpg) is up and – the whole point of the cheat – emissions are down, then that would be the perfect software setting for the car.
What Am I missing?
Disclaimer: I love my TDI (2014 sportwagon). I love the power and the fuel-efficiency. But I routinely get 3 to 4 mpg less then the car's trip computer indicates. I can't help wondering if that's another "cheat" to keep happy drivers who don't bother calculating their mpg each tankfull.
When the cheat is ON, the emissions are also up. The cheat turns off or reduces the efficiency of the the emissions controls, which increases emissions (the whole kerfluffle). It also results in a high performing car that gets good gas mileage.
BTW: your car's trip computer will never be right -- it never is in any car. I sometimes get close, and sometimes I get better than it says by 2-3 mpg, and sometimes less than it says by 2-3 mpg. My previous Dodge trucks, and my gasser Passat (2006) were the same way.
I also suspect you are getting better than the rated MPG. It is like 30 city and 42/43 highway. I routinely get 38-41 combined, and only about 1/2 that is highway - like driving. The rest is city and rush hour stop and go traffic. And I am at high altitude, which kills gas mileage due to the lower oxygen content. My Dodge diesel would routinely get 3-4 mpg more in Phoenix than in Salt Lake City
If it were just cost of fines and fixes, I'd agree with you.
But class action suits are forming huge numbers. They may end up with having to bear the cost of loss in secondary market values for 11+ million diesel vehicles. Say that's $10,000/vehicle. Do the math: it's a judgment that will exceed its entire market cap by a multiple.
More insidiously for VW, they'll never know how many customers will never walk in the door of a VW, Audi, and Porsche for the foreseeable future (I've had a VW and an Audi in my family, and we'll never go back to this company again), how many good employees will leave (or won't be recruited), how many top-tier suppliers will not do business with them because of bankruptcy fears, how regulators all over the globe will scrutinize them with renewed vigor, the cost of shutting down or retooling the most significant-growth asset in their line-up (diesel), etc.
Wishful thinking on you part.
Litigation can be costly, but I'm not sure what the damages are for class action. Completed listings on ebay don't appear to be under-priced -- certainly not to the point of claiming damages. This will blow over and VW AG will be fine.
Keep this in mind: we don't want to live in a world where VW goes down for evading emissions standards while GM gets a slap on the wrist for intentionally murdering 124 people.
Incidentally, any NDAs or non-compete agreements signed by this guy are presumably legally nullified by his moving back to Germany... Keep that in mind next time you hire a person not bound by US law, Apple.
Litigation can be costly, but I'm not sure what the damages are for class action. Completed listings on ebay don't appear to be under-priced -- certainly not to the point of claiming damages. This will blow over and VW AG will be fine.
Keep this in mind: we don't want to live in a world where VW goes down for evading emissions standards while GM gets a slap on the wrist for intentionally murdering 124 people.
The trade and sale "blue book" values seemed to have taken on a steeper than normal downward trajectory since the news broke. It will only get worse. I could have probably gotten $2k more in trade offer the day before this was announced. A few weeks before that I had had it evaluated at a dealer (mainly because they were sending out misleading flyers about trade values so I wanted to test them) and then again a few weeks ago I had it evaluated trying to swing a deal on the hybrid that is gathering dust on their lot. Not scientific but a few data points and others are also saying they see it.
VW need him there to get honestly and morality from Apple to VW. I was in the market for a SUV and was interested in Q3/Q5 but with the VW scandal lately, I trade in my wife's Audi A4 for BMW X1. No more VW/Audi or even Porsche because they're all cheating according to EPA tests.
Incidentally, any NDAs or non-compete agreements signed by this guy are presumably legally nullified by his moving back to Germany... Keep that in mind next time you hire a person not bound by US law, Apple.
Do you have any reference that would point to this being true? Contracts generally have validity around the world unless specific points are against specific countries' laws, I believe. But IANALAIDPOOTV
BTW: your car's trip computer will never be right -- it never is in any car. I sometimes get close, and sometimes I get better than it says by 2-3 mpg, and sometimes less than it says by 2-3 mpg. My previous Dodge trucks, and my gasser Passat (2006) were the same way.
The trip computer can't be that far off. The variance of the mpg is driving conditions. When they test the mpg at the factory they do it under ideal conditions with the best possible fuel. You would be hard pressed to ever achieve those same results under normal driving conditions.
The trip computer can't be that far off. The variance of the mpg is driving conditions. When they test the mpg at the factory they do it under ideal conditions with the best possible fuel. You would be hard pressed to ever achieve those same results under normal driving conditions.
We are not talking rated MPG. That is based on driving conditions and factory tests.
Go to any car enthusiast website and you will find the same story. The trip computer is no where near reality and often off by several MPG.
You would think it should be right on because they should be able to measure how much fuel is being injected and how far they have gone. But the fuel usage is calculated through some other way and leads to it being off. Whether they just have data tables on estimated usage or they try and calculate based on the tank float, or what, I don't know.
The trip computer can't be that far off. The variance of the mpg is driving conditions. When they test the mpg at the factory they do it under ideal conditions with the best possible fuel. You would be hard pressed to ever achieve those same results under normal driving conditions.
I would say it's about 5%. My BMW cars are around 3-4mph more than any GPS reference I used on freeways (60-70mph speeds).
Doesn't bode well for the for Mac engineering keeping talent at Apple. Nonetheless, even though Tim Cook sees the future in the IPad Pro, Mac sales still continue to rise. Hope we see some innovation in the Macs soon as we wait for new processors to make it into the MacBook Pro portables sometime in the new year.
Do you have any reference that would point to this being true? Contracts generally have validity around the world unless specific points are against specific countries' laws, I believe. But IANALAIDPOOTV
Non compete agreements are very hard to enforce outside the US.
Doesn't bode well for the for Mac engineering keeping talent at Apple. Nonetheless, even though Tim Cook sees the future in the IPad Pro, Mac sales still continue to rise. Hope we see some innovation in the Macs soon as we wait for new processors to make it into the MacBook Pro portables sometime in the new year.
Rumor has it the guy had already moved to the alleged Apple car anyway.
The trade and sale "blue book" values seemed to have taken on a steeper than normal downward trajectory since the news broke. It will only get worse. I could have probably gotten $2k more in trade offer the day before this was announced. A few weeks before that I had had it evaluated at a dealer (mainly because they were sending out misleading flyers about trade values so I wanted to test them) and then again a few weeks ago I had it evaluated trying to swing a deal on the hybrid that is gathering dust on their lot. Not scientific but a few data points and others are also saying they see it.
Yeah, there is some drop, but I would guess that it will level off. There are people looking to move on, and those cars will get soaked up for less, then supply will be low, people know they are fun to drive, so the value will likely stabilize. I can't imagine a cliff or a long descent for the resale.
Comments
Whatever dude... just my observations.
Yeah sure, sure; every body does it, their cars are great, we couldn't buy anything, apple is dirty, samsung is great... yada yada yada.
I hope you are drawing a paycheck
Whatever, dude. Someone is out of touch with reality, and it is not me.
Actually the $1,000 per vehicle "bribe" (or whatever the actual amount is) would probably be more than whatever comes from any class-action lawsuits. In a class-action the real winners are the law firms.
Actually the $1,000 per vehicle "bribe" (or whatever the actual amount is) would probably be more than whatever comes from any class-action lawsuits. In a class-action the real winners are the law firms.
That's true. I've gotten a bunch of mailings from different law firms asking me to call them. Unless you get in as the named plaintiff you get a free oil change and a $20 coupon off your next car.
What am I (or you) missing?
Disclaimer: I love my TDI (2014 sportwagon). I love the power and the fuel-efficiency. But I routinely get 3 to 4 mpg less then the car's trip computer indicates. I can't help wondering if that's another "cheat", one meant to satisfy drivers who don't bother calculating their mpg each tankfull.
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you're wrong. You say when the cheat is "engaged" performance is up, fuel-efficiency (mpg) is up and – the whole point of the cheat – emissions are down. If so, that would be the PERFECT software setting for the car.
What am I (or you) missing?
I think he means that the "cheat" is on when the performance is on - the normal mode should have been the testing mode.
So the "cheat" unlocks the power and MPG, but pollutes more.
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you're wrong. You say when the cheat is "engaged" performance is up, fuel-efficient (mpg) is up and – the whole point of the cheat – emissions are down, then that would be the perfect software setting for the car.
What Am I missing?
Disclaimer: I love my TDI (2014 sportwagon). I love the power and the fuel-efficiency. But I routinely get 3 to 4 mpg less then the car's trip computer indicates. I can't help wondering if that's another "cheat" to keep happy drivers who don't bother calculating their mpg each tankfull.
When the cheat is ON, the emissions are also up. The cheat turns off or reduces the efficiency of the the emissions controls, which increases emissions (the whole kerfluffle). It also results in a high performing car that gets good gas mileage.
BTW: your car's trip computer will never be right -- it never is in any car. I sometimes get close, and sometimes I get better than it says by 2-3 mpg, and sometimes less than it says by 2-3 mpg. My previous Dodge trucks, and my gasser Passat (2006) were the same way.
I also suspect you are getting better than the rated MPG. It is like 30 city and 42/43 highway. I routinely get 38-41 combined, and only about 1/2 that is highway - like driving. The rest is city and rush hour stop and go traffic. And I am at high altitude, which kills gas mileage due to the lower oxygen content. My Dodge diesel would routinely get 3-4 mpg more in Phoenix than in Salt Lake City
I think he means that the "cheat" is on when the performance is on - the normal mode should have been the testing mode.
So the "cheat" unlocks the power and MPG, but pollutes more.
Yes, that is the end result.
If it were just cost of fines and fixes, I'd agree with you.
But class action suits are forming huge numbers. They may end up with having to bear the cost of loss in secondary market values for 11+ million diesel vehicles. Say that's $10,000/vehicle. Do the math: it's a judgment that will exceed its entire market cap by a multiple.
More insidiously for VW, they'll never know how many customers will never walk in the door of a VW, Audi, and Porsche for the foreseeable future (I've had a VW and an Audi in my family, and we'll never go back to this company again), how many good employees will leave (or won't be recruited), how many top-tier suppliers will not do business with them because of bankruptcy fears, how regulators all over the globe will scrutinize them with renewed vigor, the cost of shutting down or retooling the most significant-growth asset in their line-up (diesel), etc.
Wishful thinking on you part.
Litigation can be costly, but I'm not sure what the damages are for class action. Completed listings on ebay don't appear to be under-priced -- certainly not to the point of claiming damages. This will blow over and VW AG will be fine.
Keep this in mind: we don't want to live in a world where VW goes down for evading emissions standards while GM gets a slap on the wrist for intentionally murdering 124 people.
Litigation can be costly, but I'm not sure what the damages are for class action. Completed listings on ebay don't appear to be under-priced -- certainly not to the point of claiming damages. This will blow over and VW AG will be fine.
Keep this in mind: we don't want to live in a world where VW goes down for evading emissions standards while GM gets a slap on the wrist for intentionally murdering 124 people.
The trade and sale "blue book" values seemed to have taken on a steeper than normal downward trajectory since the news broke. It will only get worse. I could have probably gotten $2k more in trade offer the day before this was announced. A few weeks before that I had had it evaluated at a dealer (mainly because they were sending out misleading flyers about trade values so I wanted to test them) and then again a few weeks ago I had it evaluated trying to swing a deal on the hybrid that is gathering dust on their lot. Not scientific but a few data points and others are also saying they see it.
Incidentally, any NDAs or non-compete agreements signed by this guy are presumably legally nullified by his moving back to Germany... Keep that in mind next time you hire a person not bound by US law, Apple.
Do you have any reference that would point to this being true? Contracts generally have validity around the world unless specific points are against specific countries' laws, I believe. But IANALAIDPOOTV
BTW: your car's trip computer will never be right -- it never is in any car. I sometimes get close, and sometimes I get better than it says by 2-3 mpg, and sometimes less than it says by 2-3 mpg. My previous Dodge trucks, and my gasser Passat (2006) were the same way.
The trip computer can't be that far off. The variance of the mpg is driving conditions. When they test the mpg at the factory they do it under ideal conditions with the best possible fuel. You would be hard pressed to ever achieve those same results under normal driving conditions.
The trip computer can't be that far off. The variance of the mpg is driving conditions. When they test the mpg at the factory they do it under ideal conditions with the best possible fuel. You would be hard pressed to ever achieve those same results under normal driving conditions.
We are not talking rated MPG. That is based on driving conditions and factory tests.
Go to any car enthusiast website and you will find the same story. The trip computer is no where near reality and often off by several MPG.
You would think it should be right on because they should be able to measure how much fuel is being injected and how far they have gone. But the fuel usage is calculated through some other way and leads to it being off. Whether they just have data tables on estimated usage or they try and calculate based on the tank float, or what, I don't know.
Non compete agreements are very hard to enforce outside the US.
Doesn't bode well for the for Mac engineering keeping talent at Apple. Nonetheless, even though Tim Cook sees the future in the IPad Pro, Mac sales still continue to rise. Hope we see some innovation in the Macs soon as we wait for new processors to make it into the MacBook Pro portables sometime in the new year.
Rumor has it the guy had already moved to the alleged Apple car anyway.
The trade and sale "blue book" values seemed to have taken on a steeper than normal downward trajectory since the news broke. It will only get worse. I could have probably gotten $2k more in trade offer the day before this was announced. A few weeks before that I had had it evaluated at a dealer (mainly because they were sending out misleading flyers about trade values so I wanted to test them) and then again a few weeks ago I had it evaluated trying to swing a deal on the hybrid that is gathering dust on their lot. Not scientific but a few data points and others are also saying they see it.
Yeah, there is some drop, but I would guess that it will level off. There are people looking to move on, and those cars will get soaked up for less, then supply will be low, people know they are fun to drive, so the value will likely stabilize. I can't imagine a cliff or a long descent for the resale.