iPad Pro reviews: great hardware, but potential is limited thanks to iOS

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  • Reply 121 of 180
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,907member

    I must argue that the pen, with its smooth and natural use as reported, will be more appreciated by artists and based on my 25 years of Mac use in graphics and pre-press I am very excited about this.  

    Apparently the pen is not only that. Everyone can draw with a pencil but as an artist you draw different. Just like that...
    We said the same thing regarding artwork. The rest of my comment was directed at your mention of spreadsheets and whether the Apple Pen was a necessary tool for that.
  • Reply 122 of 180
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,282member
    I got mine today, but the they had not gotten the pencil yet. Comes in later. So I had the chance to try the iPad without the pencil today. And I feel like without the pencil it's just a big iPad. The pencil holds the key here for my use. Drawing and animation is my main use. I was impressed though of how low they got the touch latency. Playing instruments in GarageBand is suddenly quite a musical affair. The latency is low enough to actually be playable. This bodes well for the music community!
  • Reply 123 of 180
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Whoever claiming that the pen is "for artists" apparently has never used a spreadsheet on the iPad. The pen is a must to select spreadsheet cells or to edit formula, the finger is just too big to do that. And since the spreadsheet is a mainstream office application the rationale behind the pen appears immediately.

    I never thought of that use. That notion has increased my interest dramatically.

    Interesting ... The SpreadSheet app's UI predate the mouse, touch interface, pen/pencil/stylus, voice, a real file system ...

    Same with Word Processing WYSIWYG != WYGIWYW !
  • Reply 124 of 180
    gatorguy wrote: »
    So a standard stylus works with the Pro. Thanks Soli.

    The other day someone here was tallying up how expensive the Pro might be once the necessary accessories were added in. Knowing a $5 stylus might be all that's needed depending on use case might make a difference. Or perhaps spend $5 to see if you need a stylus in the first place and if need be get the Apple Pencil once you've played some. They're in short supply right now anyway.

    If you mean a capaticence stylus that are available for $5, then yes, but I'm not sure if anything from Wacom will ever work.
  • Reply 125 of 180
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,907member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    If you mean a capaticence stylus that are available for $5, then yes, but I'm not sure if anything from Wacom will ever work.

    My Wacom stylus isn't all that to me anyway.
  • Reply 126 of 180
    arlorarlor Posts: 502member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    For people under 25 the ipad Pro is the laptop for those who never owned a laptop.

     

    Admit it.  The laptop is dying along with the older generation.  Its up to software makers to realize this and start building serious software for iOS.  Apple has provided the hardware now.


     

    I really don't think this is true, at least for college students. When my students bring devices to class, it's laptops 90% of the time at least. Some *also* bring tablets, but almost nobody brings a tablet exclusively. Those who bring both do all of their typing on the laptop and use the tablet as a reader.

     

    For what it's worth, I would guess that the Mac market share amongst my students' laptops is about 30-40%, so there's a way in which the younger generation is moving in Apple's direction. 

  • Reply 127 of 180
    arlor wrote: »
    sog35 wrote: »
     
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">For people under 25 the ipad Pro is the laptop for those who never owned a laptop.</span>


    Admit it.  The laptop is dying along with the older generation.  Its up to software makers to realize this and start building serious software for iOS.  Apple has provided the hardware now.

    I really don't think this is true, at least for college students. When my students bring devices to class, it's laptops 90% of the time at least. Some *also* bring tablets, but almost nobody brings a tablet exclusively. Those who bring both do all of their typing on the laptop and use the tablet as a reader.

    For what it's worth, I would guess that the Mac market share amongst my students' laptops <span style="line-height:1.4em;">is about 30-40%, so there's a way in which the younger generation is moving in Apple's direction. </span>

    It will be interesting to see if these anecdotal ratios change over the next year or so -- with the availability of the iPad Pro and comparable Surface offerings vs the various laptops.
  • Reply 128 of 180
    gatorguy wrote: »
    My Wacom stylus isn't all that to me anyway.

    Is Wacom v Apple the new debate? I have zero experience with Wacom, outside of reading. It seems there has been a lot of pooh-poohing of the iPad Pro because the Pencil requires a battery and BT connection, but I see that as being as facile as saying the Apple Watch sucks compared to a traditional watch because it needs to be charged.
  • Reply 129 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    That might be appropriate for some types of workflow. Where the files are located is extremely important in many cases though, especially if you are designing or sharing documents that have embedded assets such as spreadsheets, desktop publishing, app development, or web pages. The OS by itself cannot override the requirements of a specific application's design and functionality. That is why we have a file system to start with, because there are so many different use case scenarios, there is just no other way to accommodate all of them. iPad does not try to accommodate all use cases, but a computer does.




    Sorry, but this seems a list of excuses, rather than a list of issues any such filesystem must overcome, and I think all of them can be easily resolved by clever architects and engineers. Metadata can include anything, such as links or additional data or files, it can include locations and a location needn't actually contain the data but a pointer to the data, and on and on. To apply yesterday's paradigms to tomorrow's computing is a great way to restrict progress, but these changes needn't be HUGE jumps that throw the baby out with the bathwater and render all apps and their files useless. Small steps add up to lots of progress at some point.

  • Reply 130 of 180
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,907member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Is Wacom v Apple the new debate?
    I sure hope not.
  • Reply 131 of 180
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Is Wacom v Apple the new debate?.

    I hope so. Wacom's got a huge head start, but I'd be delighted if Apple tries to catch them.
  • Reply 132 of 180
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

     

    As for the lack of a trackpad, I wish Apple would make the keyboard itself also a trackpad, similar to the way you move your cursor in iOS 9 keyboard on an iPad; move your fingers over the keys moves a pointer of some sort.

     


     

    3D touch on an iPhone does that, press keyboard, drag cursor around.

  • Reply 133 of 180
    I'm considering picking one up sometime during the next few months. We've seen iOS get new features that improve functionality like the splitscreen support. The tablet now has laptop class power to allow faster and more complex apps as well. It's only going to improve and gain appeal the coming years.
  • Reply 134 of 180
    hill60 wrote: »
    3D touch on an iPhone does that, press keyboard, drag cursor around.

    This also works with any iOS 9 device by using two fingers on the trackpad, but that's less than ideal in practice. 3D Tocuh is considerable more natural feeling.
  • Reply 135 of 180
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

     



    Sorry, but this seems a list of excuses, rather than a list of issues any such filesystem must overcome, and I think all of them can be easily resolved by clever architects and engineers. Metadata can include anything, such as links or additional data or files, it can include locations and a location needn't actually contain the data but a pointer to the data, and on and on. To apply yesterday's paradigms to tomorrow's computing is a great way to restrict progress, but these changes needn't be HUGE jumps that throw the baby out with the bathwater and render all apps and their files useless. Small steps add up to lots of progress at some point.


     

    True, a filesystem is a sucky way to do thing when data may be all over the place, inside app, accross the net.

    Ideally, you want a view at your data, not know where it is.

    Of course, there is all that thing about ownership and privacy that looms under the filesystem fans.

    If data was properly identified, you could rebuild any view that suits you (even emulate a filesystem if you wish), from data who knows where.

     

    People that cling to it seems to be stuck in the 1960s; they probably shuddered at the dissaperance of physical media.

  • Reply 136 of 180
    foggyhill wrote: »
    People that cling to it seems to be stuck in the 1960s; they probably shuddered at the dissaperance of physical media

    I do assume those same people are the ones that didn't want the ODD to go away, and then had reasons like reinstalling the OS to loading video games that need to run off the CD.

    When Apple makes an ARM-based notebook they are going to lose their shit.
  • Reply 137 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    In terms of whom the iPad Pro is for, I think Gruber said it best in his review;

     

    http://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro

     

    "Anyone tying themselves in knots looking for a specific target audience for the iPad Pro is going about it the wrong way.  There is no single target audience.  Is the iPad Pro meant for office workers in the enterprise?  Professional artists creating content?  Casual users playing games, watching movies, and reading? The answer is simply "Yes".


    Another great way of looking at iPad Pro as laptop replacement;

     

  • Reply 138 of 180
    mstone wrote: »
     
    That might be appropriate for some types of workflow. Where the files are located is extremely important in many cases though, especially if you are designing or sharing documents that have embedded assets such as spreadsheets, desktop publishing, app development, or web pages. The OS by itself cannot override the requirements of a specific application's design and functionality. That is why we have a file system to start with, because there are so many different use case scenarios, there is just no other way to accommodate all of them. iPad does not try to accommodate all use cases, but a computer does.


    Sorry, but this seems a list of excuses, rather than a list of issues any such filesystem must overcome, and I think all of them can be easily resolved by clever architects and engineers. Metadata can include anything, such as links or additional data or files, it can include locations and a location needn't actually contain the data but a pointer to the data, and on and on. To apply yesterday's paradigms to tomorrow's computing is a great way to restrict progress, but these changes needn't be HUGE jumps that throw the baby out with the bathwater and render all apps and their files useless. Small steps add up to lots of progress at some point.

    Earlier this year Apple acquired FoundationDB -- a DB based on an ordered key/value store. One of the capabilities of FoundationDB is the ability to create layers ontop of the foundation key/value store. These layers can manipulate the data as if it were stored in a more traditional fashion:  Relational (SQL,  SQLite);  Logs/Sequential caches;  Streams;  Hierarchical ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FoundationDB

    SQLite4 uses (and exposes) its underlying key/value store -- which is similar to the FoundationDB base layer.

    FoundationDB is designed to be lean and mean (fast and efficient, with distributed reliability and transactions as basic design goals).

    As far as I could determine (before the site was taken down) the FoundationDB system could be streamlined into almost any kind of filesystem you could imagine on the iCloud, Mac or iDevice.

    Apple could offer a multi-model FoundationDB file system across its hardware (computers, iDevices, AppleTV) and services offerings (iCloud, Server, TimeMachine, Streaming) -- and expose as much or as little of its capabilities as makes sense for the target use and user.
  • Reply 139 of 180
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Which you can do in iOS. The problem comes when you have an open file system where users can willy-nilly store files anywhere. What I'd like to see is a metadata-based file system for Mac OS X that the OS keeps organized and safe. Perhaps when start to use ARM in their low-end notebooks or when Mac OS 11 arrives.

    You can't really open files across sandbox in iOS, not unless the application jumps through hoops. I don't think a hierarchical file system is all that confusing and OS X already has metadata search.
    Huh? I don't understand your questions. It's a tablet. It's portable, It can be used on a flat surface.

    You expect office workers to stare down at their desks from now on on? With a keyboard it can be configured as a small screen which can be touched, but as jobs pointed out vertical touch screens are useless and tiring. Which leaves the office worker with a small screen, a keyboard, no filesystem, and a less than ideal input device, the finger, for vertical input.

    Tablets will never replace laptops or desktops as work devices for most people.
  • Reply 140 of 180
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,779member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    This also works with any iOS 9 device by using two fingers on the trackpad, but that's less than ideal in practice. 

     

    No, it's only on iPad.

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