Microsoft's Surface Book 'tries too hard,' Tim Cook says

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 71
    sandorsandor Posts: 591member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alumis View Post

     

    M$ wants tablet to be a form factor.  Apple sees tablet as a unique platform.  The SB is just M$' latest riff on their differing take.  


     

     

    perceptive comment!

  • Reply 42 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tom Rupp View Post



    As a long time Mac user I sold my 12" Macbook Retina and Surface Pro 3 after I used the Surface Book for a week. I still have my 15" Macbook Pro for my heavy lifting, but the Surface Book is a really great machine that works well. The battery life is fantastic, screen is great, and the trackpad is very good. Windows 10 even feels a bit more modern than Yosemite. Would I give up my 15 MBP, no way! I received my Surface Book on day one. Was it buggy? Mine has been good. The only issue I have is smooth scrolling using Chrome could be better, but that is a software issue. Why I love Apple products and have had most of them, I think the comments from Tim Cook are a little heavy handed and they don't want to admit that the Surface Book works well in form and function. An iPad Pro pushing almost $1K can't really do half of what the Surface Book can. It is supposed to be for creatives but if you are photo editing or video editing there is no real good way to get things on and off the device and you can only do so much before you need a laptop. Surface Book does not have that limitation. I love my iPad Air 2, but I can't see doing any real work on it and thus the reason I will pass on an iPad Pro. The 12" Macbook Retina was to me a iPad with a keyboard running OS X, but the lack of support for adaptors with the USB-C is it's downfall. Not being able to hook up a Cinema Display or backwards Thunderbolt compatibility after it has been out this long is surprising. Tim Cook is right there is no device that can really do it all even in the Apple line up, but the Surface Book is not as bad as he would like everyone to believe.

    MS, in their marketing pitch, calls the detachable screen, a Digital Clipboard, not a tablet.  How was your experience in using the SB in "tablet" mode?

  • Reply 43 of 71
    And it is expensive. Take that Apple tax
  • Reply 44 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post



    That hinge on the Surface Pro is hideous. How much dust, dirt, lint will that collect.




    Don't forget it's surrounded by fan holes all around.

    ...in more ways than one! ;)

  • Reply 45 of 71
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

     

    When I see the Launchpad on a MacBook Pro screen, I feel like swiping the icons with my finger.

     

    When I see the OS X Dock at the bottom of the laptop screen, I feel like tapping an icon with my finger.

     

    When I am sitting with a MacBook Pro in my lap while reading and holding the lower edges of the screen with my hands, I feel like swiping my thumbs on the screen to scroll the page.

     

    When I see 20 inch or larger touchscreen displays used as POS terminals, library self-checkout, customer registration systems, or company directories in lobbies, the thought of replacing those screens with a 10 inch iPad on a stand looks ridiculous.  Even more ridiculous when some of those large multitouch displays are being run by Mac Minis with Boot Camp rather than native OS X.  Perhaps people really do see Macs as just empty shells for running Windows.

     

    If Apple implemented Cocoa Touch API and supported external multitouch displays on OS X, developers could create full screen touch applications running on OS X so companies would not have to use PCs or emasculate Macs by running Boot Camp.  And they would be able to choose from a greater selection of screen sizes.  Makes more sense than asking Apple to make a 40 inch iPad.  But I guess it's easier just to blame people for not having better eyesight.




    Multitouch touch screens are supported on OS X. You just need the necessary drivers. 

     

    The 3M multitouch displays work.

     

    Here is a touch overlay that works too:

    http://www.displax.com/en/products/products/skin-multitouch.html

  • Reply 46 of 71
    nagromme wrote: »
    I think it's pretty COOL that it tries too hard.

    It's not for me, and not for most people--but it has a niche, and I'm not at all sorry to see that niche filled.

    For most people, the frankenOS and frankenTablet are not the way to go. Awkward compromises that make a worse laptop coupled with a worse tablet. Weight, battery life, thickness, performance, and UI are all compromised with one another, bound up in the legacy of the past that iOS managed to shake.

    BUT... for some subset of the (still large) Windows market, that set of compromises is acceptable and even useful--or they'll just enjoy the novelty for a while and then accept the drawbacks. As a gadget freak, I know that novelty IS fun! (Look at people who drive less practical cars but love the fun of them all the same.) And if the thing turns out to be well-built, it gets some respect from me. Not recommendations to buy it, just appreciation that MS made the experiment and it exists.

    Novelty IS fun, but the way the Surface is marketed, and way most people use it most of the time, is as a laptop: in landscape mode, attached to a keyboard, running full Windows, MS Office, Outlook. And that's plenty of reason for PC laptop fans to like the Surface Pro, but not because it's a usable as a tablet. They're drawn to the idea of using it as a tablet, but the differences between ideal laptop and tablet use necessarily go deeper than physical form factor: down to the OS and application software design. As such, they're buying it to replace a laptop.

    Apple's position has always been: just buy a laptop. There's no better laptop than a laptop designed to be a laptop. And for what the Surface Pro costs, you should consider a laptop.
  • Reply 47 of 71
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,328member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

     

    That said, the Apple guys can be a little myopic. I think the ?Watch is trying to hard. Doesn't mean I don't like it, but Apple put everything but the kitchen sink in that thing for the first gen, leaving them very little room for growth. 


     

    Uh, really? And I thought all the bitching was that it didn't do enough. Now it does too much?

  • Reply 48 of 71
    omgomg1 wrote: »
    Since when did 3.3lbs become heavy?!?! If that's the case the iPhone 6s is to heavy since it weighs more then the iPhone 6...

    All I have to say is that Tim Cook had a few choice words about the Surface Pro in 2012 and here we are in 2015 with hmmm an iPad Pro that sports a Stylus and keyboard that can be attached and conformed into a stand.

    At first I was confused on why they decided to call it an iPad Pro since it can't run full software applications that corporations use for day to day work.

    But then I realized the Pro was added for marketing reasons only to confuse the average consumer who is looking at buying a hybrid that can run full software applications. Most holiday shoppers, thanks to misguided tech writers who compare an iPad and iPad Pro to a Surface Pro, will likely buy an iPad Pro thinking it is a hybrid laptop.

    Can't wait for the MacBook Pro 2 in 1 in 2017 that has a touch screen that can be removed from the base and become a MacBook Tablet.

    Can you contribute something on here please? Why would Pro denote hybrid to any buyer of an apple product? Is a Mac Pro a hybrid Mac? Is a MacBook Pro a hybrid MacBook? All of your posts indicate that you are a troll. Please make a contribution in one of your next posts. In the last month that you have been on here posting I see nothing of worth. Just comments like you did here.
  • Reply 49 of 71
    ai46ai46 Posts: 56member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tom Rupp View Post



    As a long time Mac user I sold my 12" Macbook Retina and Surface Pro 3 after I used the Surface Book for a week. I still have my 15" Macbook Pro for my heavy lifting, but the Surface Book is a really great machine that works well. The battery life is fantastic, screen is great, and the trackpad is very good. Windows 10 even feels a bit more modern than Yosemite. Would I give up my 15 MBP, no way! I received my Surface Book on day one. Was it buggy? Mine has been good. The only issue I have is smooth scrolling using Chrome could be better, but that is a software issue. Why I love Apple products and have had most of them, I think the comments from Tim Cook are a little heavy handed and they don't want to admit that the Surface Book works well in form and function. An iPad Pro pushing almost $1K can't really do half of what the Surface Book can. It is supposed to be for creatives but if you are photo editing or video editing there is no real good way to get things on and off the device and you can only do so much before you need a laptop. Surface Book does not have that limitation. I love my iPad Air 2, but I can't see doing any real work on it and thus the reason I will pass on an iPad Pro. The 12" Macbook Retina was to me a iPad with a keyboard running OS X, but the lack of support for adaptors with the USB-C is it's downfall. Not being able to hook up a Cinema Display or backwards Thunderbolt compatibility after it has been out this long is surprising. Tim Cook is right there is no device that can really do it all even in the Apple line up, but the Surface Book is not as bad as he would like everyone to believe.

    Tom, I think you're trying too hard

  • Reply 50 of 71
    Loves that Microsoft is really trying hard to be a leader in both hardware and software. On the flip side Apple is taking a slow and steady approach with incremental product update. It's been a while since we last see any revolutionary product from Apple. Microsoft is relentless, it's in their DNA. They rise and fall, then they will rise and fall again. The cycle repeats until they get to where they want to be. Satya and co. is shaping Microsoft's future. It's great to see the 2 companies compete and yet cooperate at the same time.
  • Reply 51 of 71
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NotScott View Post



    Sure he didn't say "diluted"?

     

    I'm sure he did.

     

  • Reply 52 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NotScott View Post



    Sure he didn't say "diluted"?

    Apparently, he did say diluted.

     

    http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/11/ipad-pro-tidbits-a9x-apple-pencil-tmobile-more/

     

    "Apple says Cook meant "diluted," not "deluded," in reference to the above comment."

  • Reply 53 of 71
    john galt wrote: »

    Why can't it be both if talking about two different things. For example, "MS' vision that the Surface Book can be both a great notebook and a great tablet with no tradeoffs is deluded. This is because no amount of engineering in this Universe will ever allow for anything other than a watered down version of each; both the notebook and tablet of the Surface Book are diluted versions of what could have been great standalone products."
  • Reply 54 of 71
    Have you seen the price of the iPad pro in Canada? What a joke. I'd consider it if there was a 64gb option priced at the iPad Air 2 price. Pricing from Apple is getting to completely insane. I will NEVER pay that for an iPad. Wow.
  • Reply 55 of 71

    Lol, maybe just maybe I am :)

  • Reply 56 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    MS, in their marketing pitch, calls the detachable screen, a Digital Clipboard, not a tablet.  How was your experience in using the SB in "tablet" mode?


    It's light, a little big as a tablet.  I like it Best for reading in portrait mode and taping with the stylus or Youtube watching.  Tablet alone I get 2:45-3:15 hrs.  Netflix tablet only about 2 hrs. (I would rather use my iPad Air 2 for streaming video.  Easier to hold lying down and longer battery for streaming)  However I don't mind reversing the screen attached to the keyboard to watch longer streamed videos.  With the keyboard attached I get about 11hrs of mixed use.

  • Reply 57 of 71
    I've a Lenovo laptop with a touch screen and I almost never felt the need to finger the screen. And worse, doing presentation on the laptop and people will invariably touch the screen to make a point and flip the page unintentionally. Very annoying.
  • Reply 58 of 71
    rob bonner wrote: »
    I do think it is a bad sign when Apple gives Microsoft free ad space like this, they must be at least a little concerned.

    seriously doubt it. Apple is sucking up all the profit in multiple spaces. MS is not.

    it was likely in a normal contextual conversation.
  • Reply 59 of 71
    alumis wrote: »
    M$ wants tablet to be a form factor.  Apple sees tablet as a unique platform.  The SB is just M$' latest riff on their differing take.  

    Let's face it, Tim Cook is a great "product guy" - good enough that Job's handed him the key to the city at sunset.  But Cook is no visionary.  He's not even much of a techie if he's honestly not using a laptop or desktop anymore.  Under his watch we've seen the Apple Watch, Apple Music, and supersized iDevices - all good, but hardly visionary, products.  So, I'm going to take his criticisms of others' work with a grain of salt.

    Tim Cook is leading the biggest, most successful, most profitable, most popular technology company in the history of species. you have a single post history. I honk I know which criticism I'll take with a grain of salt...
  • Reply 60 of 71
    alumis wrote: »
    Under his watch we've seen the Apple Watch, Apple Music, and supersized iDevices - all good, but hardly visionary, products.

    The Mac Pro, all the advancements with the Mac notebook line, the A-series chip improvements, all the iDevice component changes, all the investments with Xcode, creation of Swift, etc. Why are ignoring all these advancements?
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