This sounds like racial profiling. The employee said that "they were worried about you stealing something". If that's the case then the employees should be worried about every person who comes into the Apple Store with any type of bag including women and their purses. The manager was right in apologizing but that individual employee should have been fired.
Why didn't they just search their backpacks as they left. Apple is set up and is good at doing that. The U.S. courts have already shown that searching peoples bags or backpacks before they leave is acceptable in fact you can make them do it on their own time. I bet a judge would say if you as a customer want to bring a bag or backpack into the store you will have to submit to a search as you leave. This universal approach would prevent singling any one person or persons out. Thereby removing any argument of racisim.
But - it is not necessarily reasonable to assume that racism was behind this incident either. It's quite possible that they have asked white or black kids to leave previously, but that this attracted attention because it was videoed. Racism generally manifests as a pattern of behavior, and one incident, with no overt racist aspects, does not imply a pattern.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
Dude. You can say the same thing about the USA which had slaves and segregation not so long ago.
The fact is there is no proof that there was any discrimination. When the proof is there then fine. Till then its just guesses and speculation by people who don't know shit about the situation in that Apple store.
Of course I can say the same thing about the US -- except I will go further. We still have segregation. Mass incarceration of blacks was instituted by President Nixon (his Southern strategy) with the "tough on crime", which put 50% of black men behind bars. The private prison industry is one of the fastest growing industries in the US -- there have been US judges who have recently been convicted of having investments in the private prison systems and having received kickbacks for imprisoning teenagers for minor offenses.
There are companies in the US which used prison labor to feather their bottom line -- Whole Foods being the most obvious example == slavery today.
Former President Carter wrote a recent book, detailing how Atlanta Georgia is the epicenter for importation of female "child" sexual slaves into the US -- it's not a minor number.
And let's not forget about "illegal immigrants" (which may not be the true since, especially in places like Arizona and Texas, you're presumed illegal if you look Mexican and you can be arrested if you don't have citizenship papers with you to prove otherwise == apartheid). They work for low wages so typically white owners can make more money and American consumers can pay less at the store. The pay into Social Security retirement which the last I read was about $50 billion dollars, which they will never be able to get back.
"[T]he USA which had slaves" should read "The USA which has slaves".
I agree that the headline was highly misleading, and that a single situation like this isn't particularly newsworthy. Furthermore, there are too many missing details to know precisely what happened and the motivation of those involved, so I don't see the value of the story beyond the possible click bait motives.
However, regardless of the value of reporting this story, I really don't think that there's a reasonable basis for the comments that dismiss the possibility that the Apple employee's actions were influenced by the fact that this was a group of black kids. That is not at all a farfetched possibility. I recognize that unless you've been watched suspiciously by store employees or store security on numerous occasions when you were simply browsing, it's not easy to have a perspective in which race could've played a role in this situation. But my opinion is that a lack of personal experience is no excuse for not trying to think and reflect on the situation, instead of posting reactionary comments.
Would imagine a large group of friends with backpacks get rowdy in an Apple store and Apple security get's nervous. Add in the racial profiling and it just gets worse.
But - it is not necessarily reasonable to assume that racism was behind this incident either. It's quite possible that they have asked white or black kids to leave previously, but that this attracted attention because it was videoed. Racism generally manifests as a pattern of behavior, and one incident, with no overt racist aspects, does not imply a pattern.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
Completely agree - I'm not suggesting that there is evidence that it is not racism either- for all I know the local clan of Australian white supremacists might run that store. But the assumption of racism is unsupported in the absence of further information and I'm just pointing out that while, from the video, it is clear that they were profiling on something, there is no direct evidence that it was race. As I mentioned, white kids get treated like that too on occasion.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
I walked into my local mall the other day. Half way to the Apple Store I abruptly turned around and walked back out of the mall. A mall security guard watching this on camera could have inspected the footage and come to any number of conclusions. Had there been someone of another race in my immediately vicinity, perhaps in my path, a person watching the security footage might have concluded that I decided not to shop in a mall where persons of that race were present. Sensitivity to racism might have led a person watching that security camera footage to assume something about me, based upon their sensitivity and having nothing to do with the fact that I had simply realized I had forgotten my wallet in my car.
It's the facts that must dictate our perceptions above our biases. Otherwise we're simply reverse profiling.
I think guards tend to view school kids with suspicion regardless of race, just because they typically have little or no money, so the question arises as to what they are doing in the shops if they have no money.
I think guards tend to view school kids with suspicion regardless of race, just because they typically have little or no money, so the question arises as to what they are doing in the shops if they have no money.
That's definitely the answer - a credit check required before being allowed into an Apple Store.¡
There is nothing in this situation, beyond the one young men's comments after the fact (and AI's very overblown headline), to suggest this had anything to do with their skin colour. The store employee says nothing that suggests racism. Having listened to my teenage son complain loud and long when he and his group of friends were asked to leave an Apple Store in London because they huddled around a drone display and store security become concerned, I suspect that store security in many high ticket stores have concerns when young people, with backpacks, travel in groups looking at shelf merchandise. While these young Australians may have suffered unfortunate life experiences where race has been a factor, it looks to have been manufactured in this instance. My aggrieved son received an apology when he complained to the manager and was told he and his friends were more than welcome in the store individually.
I don't think store managers like seeing high school kids in their store period. Especially if they had backpacks, etc.
Kids have to make it 'racist' though, gets more attention that way.
Okay, Mr. "White"Falcon, just because you live in your close-my-eyes to reality world, these things do happen and have been happening for decades. As a 46 year old African-American man, I remember a couple of instances like this happening to me in the late 1980's/early 90's as a high school and college student. A group of my friends and I (all "Black") were in a predominantly "white" mall and after about an hour we were told to leave because several stores called security to say they were nervous a group of black kids were walking around the mall and we might steal something. All we were doing is hanging out in the mall like most teens, looking at clothes, eating Burger King, joking around, talking and having fun. Not only were we kicked out, but we weren't even allowed to wait for the bus outside the mall and told to cross the street to a plaza to wait. Several other instances I was followed around CD stores (remember those?) because I might steal something. Sometimes people say it's racist, because... well, it actually is racist!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardhowson
One event at one Apple Store location. Seriously, does it really warrant it's own "headline post" in AppleInsider ?
Seriously?! Are you new to the website!? They post stories about anything remotely connected to Apple every day.
Questioning the motives of the AI editorial staff will get you banned so I’ll just point out that headline appears to clearly imply that Apple Store “employees" as a class are profiling blacks. We don’t get to know that it is a single store and a single employee in Australia until we start reading.
Interesting that the headline used the plural “employees” when one of the alleged victims said it was a single employee.
"Employees" is correct. There was one employee, the security guard, who said he didn't like them in the store, and the employee who kicked them out.
Comments
Oh good, an eyewitness! You can clearly tell us exactly what happened since you act like you know all the facts, which means you must have been there!
OMG man, what planet are you living on?
Did you look at the video?
How's Egypt this time of year?
Why didn't they just search their backpacks as they left. Apple is set up and is good at doing that. The U.S. courts have already shown that searching peoples bags or backpacks before they leave is acceptable in fact you can make them do it on their own time. I bet a judge would say if you as a customer want to bring a bag or backpack into the store you will have to submit to a search as you leave. This universal approach would prevent singling any one person or persons out. Thereby removing any argument of racisim.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
Dude. You can say the same thing about the USA which had slaves and segregation not so long ago.
The fact is there is no proof that there was any discrimination. When the proof is there then fine. Till then its just guesses and speculation by people who don't know shit about the situation in that Apple store.
Of course I can say the same thing about the US -- except I will go further. We still have segregation. Mass incarceration of blacks was instituted by President Nixon (his Southern strategy) with the "tough on crime", which put 50% of black men behind bars. The private prison industry is one of the fastest growing industries in the US -- there have been US judges who have recently been convicted of having investments in the private prison systems and having received kickbacks for imprisoning teenagers for minor offenses.
There are companies in the US which used prison labor to feather their bottom line -- Whole Foods being the most obvious example == slavery today.
Former President Carter wrote a recent book, detailing how Atlanta Georgia is the epicenter for importation of female "child" sexual slaves into the US -- it's not a minor number.
And let's not forget about "illegal immigrants" (which may not be the true since, especially in places like Arizona and Texas, you're presumed illegal if you look Mexican and you can be arrested if you don't have citizenship papers with you to prove otherwise == apartheid). They work for low wages so typically white owners can make more money and American consumers can pay less at the store. The pay into Social Security retirement which the last I read was about $50 billion dollars, which they will never be able to get back.
"[T]he USA which had slaves" should read "The USA which has slaves".
However, regardless of the value of reporting this story, I really don't think that there's a reasonable basis for the comments that dismiss the possibility that the Apple employee's actions were influenced by the fact that this was a group of black kids. That is not at all a farfetched possibility. I recognize that unless you've been watched suspiciously by store employees or store security on numerous occasions when you were simply browsing, it's not easy to have a perspective in which race could've played a role in this situation. But my opinion is that a lack of personal experience is no excuse for not trying to think and reflect on the situation, instead of posting reactionary comments.
What are you trying to say here?
He doesn't like decent countries with honorable leadership now? Because Egypt's an example of stability and tolerance in the Middle East.
But - it is not necessarily reasonable to assume that racism was behind this incident either. It's quite possible that they have asked white or black kids to leave previously, but that this attracted attention because it was videoed. Racism generally manifests as a pattern of behavior, and one incident, with no overt racist aspects, does not imply a pattern.
While this seems entirely rational, there's also no evidence to the contrary (that it's explicitly not racism). Fighting racism requires sensitivity to it.
Oh no, I've made an Internet faux pas and said the word "sensitivity"! Trolls and biting sarcasm soldiers, ATTACK!!
There's a trend where Internet articles about racism attract comments (usually from entitled and privileged people) denying racism is involved. ("Oh I don't deny it exists", says the commentator, "just in THIS case") This article already has several such meme-like examples of "why are they making it about race?" comments. Commentators like this push for the opinion that race isn't an issue, and therefore contribute to actual institutionalized racism via the notion that it is nonexistent "in this case". The best way to keep an institutional attitude is to deny its existence. Pretending racism isn't still a serious issue only helps preserve racism.
Completely agree - I'm not suggesting that there is evidence that it is not racism either- for all I know the local clan of Australian white supremacists might run that store. But the assumption of racism is unsupported in the absence of further information and I'm just pointing out that while, from the video, it is clear that they were profiling on something, there is no direct evidence that it was race. As I mentioned, white kids get treated like that too on occasion.
Dysmenorrhea?
Kids have to make it 'racist' though, gets more attention that way.
The kids come across as reasonable people. They said that they had received an apology and thus considered the matter resolved.
I walked into my local mall the other day. Half way to the Apple Store I abruptly turned around and walked back out of the mall. A mall security guard watching this on camera could have inspected the footage and come to any number of conclusions. Had there been someone of another race in my immediately vicinity, perhaps in my path, a person watching the security footage might have concluded that I decided not to shop in a mall where persons of that race were present. Sensitivity to racism might have led a person watching that security camera footage to assume something about me, based upon their sensitivity and having nothing to do with the fact that I had simply realized I had forgotten my wallet in my car.
It's the facts that must dictate our perceptions above our biases. Otherwise we're simply reverse profiling.
I think guards tend to view school kids with suspicion regardless of race, just because they typically have little or no money, so the question arises as to what they are doing in the shops if they have no money.
That's definitely the answer - a credit check required before being allowed into an Apple Store.¡
That you're in the Nile. I was being facetious. I figured you'd get the reference.
I don't think store managers like seeing high school kids in their store period. Especially if they had backpacks, etc.
Kids have to make it 'racist' though, gets more attention that way.
Okay, Mr. "White"Falcon, just because you live in your close-my-eyes to reality world, these things do happen and have been happening for decades. As a 46 year old African-American man, I remember a couple of instances like this happening to me in the late 1980's/early 90's as a high school and college student. A group of my friends and I (all "Black") were in a predominantly "white" mall and after about an hour we were told to leave because several stores called security to say they were nervous a group of black kids were walking around the mall and we might steal something. All we were doing is hanging out in the mall like most teens, looking at clothes, eating Burger King, joking around, talking and having fun. Not only were we kicked out, but we weren't even allowed to wait for the bus outside the mall and told to cross the street to a plaza to wait. Several other instances I was followed around CD stores (remember those?) because I might steal something. Sometimes people say it's racist, because... well, it actually is racist!!!!!!!!
One event at one Apple Store location. Seriously, does it really warrant it's own "headline post" in AppleInsider ?
Seriously?! Are you new to the website!? They post stories about anything remotely connected to Apple every day.
Questioning the motives of the AI editorial staff will get you banned so I’ll just point out that headline appears to clearly imply that Apple Store “employees" as a class are profiling blacks. We don’t get to know that it is a single store and a single employee in Australia until we start reading.
Interesting that the headline used the plural “employees” when one of the alleged victims said it was a single employee.
"Employees" is correct. There was one employee, the security guard, who said he didn't like them in the store, and the employee who kicked them out.
You can't count.