The iPad "1" had a keyboard DOCK, not a keyboard cover from Apple.... and it was promptly not upgraded for iPad "2" and discontinued going forward. A dock is not a cover.
other companies immediately began making keyboard covers, licensed by Apple as he said. this is years old news.
MS don't even need to develop their own chip, I'm sure Samsung would be happy to sell them their Exynos processors which are up there with the A9. Given that MS are trying to make W10 cross platform and run on their ARM based phones, a lot of the work is likely already done.
if they have to buy it then it can't compete with Apple on price. Apple doesn't have to pay a profit margin to its chip division.
Yes, and still it will only be in the same ballpark as the A9 (based on their projections for how much faster it is than the 810). And it's not even going to be shipping for some time yet.
No idea what it will bench, nor whether that matters on any particular phone. Simply noting that at least Qualcomm doesn't see simply adding more cores to be the way to go about it.
BTW the 820 will almost certainly be in a shipping device before years end. It's already shown up on Geekbench on a smartphone coming from Xiaomi.
Same multi-core score when a benchmark artificially utilizes all 8 cores at maximum at the same time.
So for those 0.5% of Apps that might actually be able to achieve this type of core utilization, the best an 8 core Samsung processor can do is to match a 2 core Apple processor.
The other 99.5% of the time the A9 will outperform the Exynos. By a wide margin.
Claimed 30% improvement? They're going to need a LOT more than that if they ever hope to catch Apple. And still 8 cores? When will Samsung, Qualcomm and the rest ever learn? They can't keep adding cores. Is next year going to bring the 16 core CPU's just so they can keep up with Apple?
The "Octo-core" SoCs out now use ARM's big.LITTLE design - only 4 cores are ever "live" at once. There's a set of high-performance CPUs paired with a set of highly-efficient CPUs. Execution of code is switched back and forth depending on workload and demand.
Multi-core performance is not what people should be looking at - that can easily be increased by simply adding more cores. It's the single core performance that's most important here and this is where Apple's engineering prowess really shines. As far as performance-per-watt, there is no other CPU design that can touch Apple's A-series.
That does not look like either Microsofts or Apples, it is not even a cover.
if it covers he screen to protect it, it's a cover. sorry you lost this one.
they discontinued it and recommended that you use the keyboard through the screen -- that that was the future going forward.
really? please link to where Apple recommended customers stop using external keyboards and instead use the onscreen. because I'm fairly certain that's bullshit you just made up...but interested in reading the release if not.
So now spec-whoring IS acceptable then. Geesh. . .
typical FUD on your part. when comparing two finished, integrated products, no, specs don't tell the story. but comparing two processors to each other? of course specs are relevant.
but you knew that. your mission of anti-Apple FUD nonsense is plain.
I don't normally comment on these articles but I feel compelled to do so considering the insanity going on here. I'm a huge apple guy and will defend them till I'm blue in the face but they are wrong here with the iPad pro. the iPad pro running iOS absolutely kills it as a "real" productivity device. There is no file system and regardless of how well apples touchscreen keyboards are done they absolutely don't replace the real thing. Don't get me started on the lack of a USB port.. You have to give Microsoft props for the surface pro line. It runs a FULL operating system and that is huge for running most programs and multitasking. Not to mention the Micro SD slot and USB port. Is Windows a great operating system? No it's not.. Is it better than OS X? No it's not... But it's a full operating system that allows you to be productive on a tablet/ Laptop hybrid.. If Apple had put a touch friendly hybrid version of mac OS X on the iPad pro then I wouldn't be typing this on my surface right now..
The "Octo-core" SoCs out now use ARM's big.LITTLE design - only 4 cores are ever "live" at once. There's a set of high-performance CPUs paired with a set of highly-efficient CPUs. Execution of code is switched back and forth depending on workload and demand.
Multi-core performance is not what people should be looking at - that can easily be increased by simply adding more cores. It's the single core performance that's most important here and this is where Apple's engineering prowess really shines. As far as performance-per-watt, there is no other CPU design that can touch Apple's A-series.
My understanding is the first versions could only use 4 cores at once, but now they can use all 8 cores at the same time.
I don't see why anyone would choose to buy a Surface. Makes absolutely zero sense. Its such a horrible touch device because:
1. There are virtually zero touch based Apps on it.
2. The OS is mainly built for mouse/keyboard use.
3. The touch sensor and OS is too small for accurate multi-touch, thus the need for stylus.
1. Photoshop and Illustrator have been optimised for Windows touch. That's enough for a whole swathe of users. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many of the major apps for Windows also have touch support.
2. That hasn't been true since Windows 7. Windows 8 was specifically designed for touch (to the detriment of mouse/keyboard users!) and Windows 10 tries to satisfy both camps.
3. This is simply not true. While it's possible to fall back to the legacy UI but most users will spend 99% of their time using the new touch-optimised interface.
Even hating on the Surface Pro's stylus is ridiculous. The first two iterations of the Surface Pro used Wacom technology. Wacom tablets are very popular with professionals.
I think an iPad is generally a poor fit for most students..... Macbook is probably a much better fit (except for maybe artist types) -- given that you want something light to bring around to classes, and want something that is better suited to doing a lot of papers.... then if you are in the engineering/cs/math area you want something to be able to be a full development platform and run things like Matlab, R, etc.
that isn't what he said. he said he bought an iPad for a student but was shocked that it couldn't run the needed software. we're asking which software. I can't imagine it's Office since MS has office for iOS. I can only imagine obscure random coursework Windows software, which would be silly to expect the iPad to run.
Where do people come up with the stupid idea that the iPad Pro can't be used for real work (or used in a corporate environment)?
These are the same people who think "real" work can only be accomplished through an "Office suite" of applications. Microsoft did a great job of jamming that paradigm into an entire generations mind that they've essentially been brainwashed into thinking that work only happens in the confines of a spreadsheet or a word processor. And to an extent it is true, but only because there's so much legacy baggage IT has to drag with them, they can't simply move on.
No idea what it will bench, nor whether that matters on any particular phone. Simply noting that at least Qualcomm doesn't see simply adding more cores to be the way to go about it.
BTW the 820 will almost certainly be in a shipping device before years end. It's already shown up on Geekbench on a smartphone coming from Xiaomi.
Prior to this Qualcomm was ALL about more cores and cranking the clock speed. From the S4 dual core to the 810 octa core, all they have been doing was adding cores and cranking the clock. This is the first time they actually concentrated on making better cores and using fewer of them. Yet they still went with 4 cores, which shows their individual cores are still way behind Apple.
All the reports I've seen on the 820 state early 2016 as a release.
Basic content creation, for example PowerPoint presentations, or even just heavy duty email and calendaring in Outlook such are copying & pasting sections or text, dragging and dropping attachments etc.
basic content creation? PP is on iPad. it's a thing. Outlook support too.
I asked what sort of "real work" can't or won't be done on iPad...those don't answer my question.
It's Apples and Oranges. The iPad Pro is a tablet that can do PC-like things whereas the Surface Pro is a PC that can do tablet-like things. As to which is better, cheaper, faster, etc. it's a matter of personal preference...
I am not saying the Apple is copying Microsoft -- primarily because it is hitting different markets.... but to be quite honest everyone copies everyone at some point..... The new Apple keyboard case looks much more like Microsofts than the version 1 dock.....
I think Apple's solution is much much better -- but then I also like people to be honest with their descriptions and not bloviate....
How can it be much better - seriously, you are saying that only because it has an apple logo.
The iPad smart keyboard thing has no backlight, no track pad, and isn't a full keyboard - missing function keys, etc. With the iPad - like the first gen surfaces - you get exactly one angle of inclination. All of that for $170.
The surface type cover, is a full laptop keyboard with backlight. which by it self has 2 angles of inclination, and when combined with the surface kickstand many more. and has a built in trackpad and fingerprint reader. And, can be used with the surface pro 3. It's $130.
I'm not sure how apples solution is better because what I see is a crappier keyboard for significantly more money. Hopefully, the 3rd party options will be better...
1. Photoshop and Illustrator have been optimised for Windows touch. That's enough for a whole swathe of users. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many of the major apps for Windows also have touch support.
2. That hasn't been true since Windows 7. Windows 8 was specifically designed for touch (to the detriment of mouse/keyboard users!) and Windows 10 tries to satisfy both camps.
3. This is simply not true. While it's possible to fall back to the legacy UI but most users will spend 99% of their time using the new touch-optimised interface.
Even hating on the Surface Pro's stylus is ridiculous. The first two iterations of the Surface Pro used Wacom technology. Wacom tablets are very popular with professionals.
Have you ever actually used a Surface in touch mode? You can't use the work "touch" and "optimized" in the same sentence.
You should use the word "enabled" as you can use touch, but it's hardly optimized. It's not much better than Android phone Apps scaled up to work on Android tablets. Sure they work, but they are far from optimized.
People seem to think you can just write a universal Windows App and let the compiler take care of things for you and voila - a touch based Windows App.
typical FUD on your part. when comparing two finished, integrated products, no, specs don't tell the story. but comparing two processors to each other? of course specs are relevant.
but you knew that. your mission of anti-Apple FUD nonsense is plain.
Anti-Apple? Nonsense. The point has been made here time and again that specs are not nearly as important as many of us like to pretend. It's the overall device build and operation and not any particular component that makes or breaks a smartdevice as it's been accurately pointed out. Many times.
So those vague "anti-Apple" accusations get tiresome, particularly since what makes posts supposedly "anti-Apple" posts are never mentioned. IMHO it's simply a convenient way to dismiss an inconvenient comment. Seems every time someone makes the "anti-Apple" claim they disappear when questioned.
EDIT:
...and history repeats itself, with the comforting sound of yet more crickets as accompaniment.
That's because you need a stylus to use the "not really optimized for touch, my finger is just like a mouse" UI of Windows. The Apple Pencil is not a stylus, it's a drawing tool. You don't need it to operate the device. You can completely use the iPad Pro perfectly well with just your fingers.
That is utter and complete BS. You do not need the pen to operate anything on a surface.
The Pen is included for productivity tasks particularly note taking.
I have played with a Surface 3 (not 4) at a local electronics store and it was not bad. The iPad is my preference but if there was no iPad I would get a Surface over an Android tablet.
Comments
other companies immediately began making keyboard covers, licensed by Apple as he said. this is years old news.
if they have to buy it then it can't compete with Apple on price. Apple doesn't have to pay a profit margin to its chip division.
BTW the 820 will almost certainly be in a shipping device before years end. It's already shown up on Geekbench on a smartphone coming from Xiaomi.
Same multi-core score when a benchmark artificially utilizes all 8 cores at maximum at the same time.
So for those 0.5% of Apps that might actually be able to achieve this type of core utilization, the best an 8 core Samsung processor can do is to match a 2 core Apple processor.
The other 99.5% of the time the A9 will outperform the Exynos. By a wide margin.
Claimed 30% improvement? They're going to need a LOT more than that if they ever hope to catch Apple. And still 8 cores? When will Samsung, Qualcomm and the rest ever learn? They can't keep adding cores. Is next year going to bring the 16 core CPU's just so they can keep up with Apple?
The "Octo-core" SoCs out now use ARM's big.LITTLE design - only 4 cores are ever "live" at once. There's a set of high-performance CPUs paired with a set of highly-efficient CPUs. Execution of code is switched back and forth depending on workload and demand.
Multi-core performance is not what people should be looking at - that can easily be increased by simply adding more cores. It's the single core performance that's most important here and this is where Apple's engineering prowess really shines. As far as performance-per-watt, there is no other CPU design that can touch Apple's A-series.
if it covers he screen to protect it, it's a cover. sorry you lost this one.
really? please link to where Apple recommended customers stop using external keyboards and instead use the onscreen. because I'm fairly certain that's bullshit you just made up...but interested in reading the release if not.
typical FUD on your part. when comparing two finished, integrated products, no, specs don't tell the story. but comparing two processors to each other? of course specs are relevant.
but you knew that. your mission of anti-Apple FUD nonsense is plain.
if you don't see the new trolls on AI you haven't been paying attention.
The "Octo-core" SoCs out now use ARM's big.LITTLE design - only 4 cores are ever "live" at once. There's a set of high-performance CPUs paired with a set of highly-efficient CPUs. Execution of code is switched back and forth depending on workload and demand.
Multi-core performance is not what people should be looking at - that can easily be increased by simply adding more cores. It's the single core performance that's most important here and this is where Apple's engineering prowess really shines. As far as performance-per-watt, there is no other CPU design that can touch Apple's A-series.
My understanding is the first versions could only use 4 cores at once, but now they can use all 8 cores at the same time.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/samsung-continues-the-many-core-madness-with-6-and-8-core-exynos-chips/
I don't see why anyone would choose to buy a Surface. Makes absolutely zero sense. Its such a horrible touch device because:
1. There are virtually zero touch based Apps on it.
2. The OS is mainly built for mouse/keyboard use.
3. The touch sensor and OS is too small for accurate multi-touch, thus the need for stylus.
1. Photoshop and Illustrator have been optimised for Windows touch. That's enough for a whole swathe of users. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many of the major apps for Windows also have touch support.
2. That hasn't been true since Windows 7. Windows 8 was specifically designed for touch (to the detriment of mouse/keyboard users!) and Windows 10 tries to satisfy both camps.
3. This is simply not true. While it's possible to fall back to the legacy UI but most users will spend 99% of their time using the new touch-optimised interface.
Even hating on the Surface Pro's stylus is ridiculous. The first two iterations of the Surface Pro used Wacom technology. Wacom tablets are very popular with professionals.
that isn't what he said. he said he bought an iPad for a student but was shocked that it couldn't run the needed software. we're asking which software. I can't imagine it's Office since MS has office for iOS. I can only imagine obscure random coursework Windows software, which would be silly to expect the iPad to run.
Where do people come up with the stupid idea that the iPad Pro can't be used for real work (or used in a corporate environment)?
These are the same people who think "real" work can only be accomplished through an "Office suite" of applications. Microsoft did a great job of jamming that paradigm into an entire generations mind that they've essentially been brainwashed into thinking that work only happens in the confines of a spreadsheet or a word processor. And to an extent it is true, but only because there's so much legacy baggage IT has to drag with them, they can't simply move on.
No idea what it will bench, nor whether that matters on any particular phone. Simply noting that at least Qualcomm doesn't see simply adding more cores to be the way to go about it.
BTW the 820 will almost certainly be in a shipping device before years end. It's already shown up on Geekbench on a smartphone coming from Xiaomi.
Prior to this Qualcomm was ALL about more cores and cranking the clock speed. From the S4 dual core to the 810 octa core, all they have been doing was adding cores and cranking the clock. This is the first time they actually concentrated on making better cores and using fewer of them. Yet they still went with 4 cores, which shows their individual cores are still way behind Apple.
All the reports I've seen on the 820 state early 2016 as a release.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3002178/mobile/mobile-devices-with-snapdragon-820-chip-coming-in-first-half-next-year.html
basic content creation? PP is on iPad. it's a thing. Outlook support too.
I asked what sort of "real work" can't or won't be done on iPad...those don't answer my question.
I am not saying the Apple is copying Microsoft -- primarily because it is hitting different markets.... but to be quite honest everyone copies everyone at some point..... The new Apple keyboard case looks much more like Microsofts than the version 1 dock.....
I think Apple's solution is much much better -- but then I also like people to be honest with their descriptions and not bloviate....
How can it be much better - seriously, you are saying that only because it has an apple logo.
The iPad smart keyboard thing has no backlight, no track pad, and isn't a full keyboard - missing function keys, etc. With the iPad - like the first gen surfaces - you get exactly one angle of inclination. All of that for $170.
The surface type cover, is a full laptop keyboard with backlight. which by it self has 2 angles of inclination, and when combined with the surface kickstand many more. and has a built in trackpad and fingerprint reader. And, can be used with the surface pro 3. It's $130.
I'm not sure how apples solution is better because what I see is a crappier keyboard for significantly more money. Hopefully, the 3rd party options will be better...
1. Photoshop and Illustrator have been optimised for Windows touch. That's enough for a whole swathe of users. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many of the major apps for Windows also have touch support.
2. That hasn't been true since Windows 7. Windows 8 was specifically designed for touch (to the detriment of mouse/keyboard users!) and Windows 10 tries to satisfy both camps.
3. This is simply not true. While it's possible to fall back to the legacy UI but most users will spend 99% of their time using the new touch-optimised interface.
Even hating on the Surface Pro's stylus is ridiculous. The first two iterations of the Surface Pro used Wacom technology. Wacom tablets are very popular with professionals.
Have you ever actually used a Surface in touch mode? You can't use the work "touch" and "optimized" in the same sentence.
You should use the word "enabled" as you can use touch, but it's hardly optimized. It's not much better than Android phone Apps scaled up to work on Android tablets. Sure they work, but they are far from optimized.
People seem to think you can just write a universal Windows App and let the compiler take care of things for you and voila - a touch based Windows App.
Yet here you are arguing processor specs make one product better than another and letting that distract from the bigger picture. You were on the right side a couple of days ago IMO, but now taking the opposite tact.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/190048/apple-shares-dive-on-rumors-of-weak-iphone-6s-demand/40#post_2804200
So those vague "anti-Apple" accusations get tiresome, particularly since what makes posts supposedly "anti-Apple" posts are never mentioned. IMHO it's simply a convenient way to dismiss an inconvenient comment. Seems every time someone makes the "anti-Apple" claim they disappear when questioned.
EDIT:
...and history repeats itself, with the comforting sound of yet more crickets as accompaniment.
That's because you need a stylus to use the "not really optimized for touch, my finger is just like a mouse" UI of Windows. The Apple Pencil is not a stylus, it's a drawing tool. You don't need it to operate the device. You can completely use the iPad Pro perfectly well with just your fingers.
That is utter and complete BS. You do not need the pen to operate anything on a surface.
The Pen is included for productivity tasks particularly note taking.
I have played with a Surface 3 (not 4) at a local electronics store and it was not bad. The iPad is my preference but if there was no iPad I would get a Surface over an Android tablet.