I thought you were from the United States, land of the free? Yet you're content with someone who isn't in law enforcement carrying out an unconstitutional search of your property and detention of yourself on the suspicion you may have stolen something?
I thought the USA still held onto the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Besides, what can someone actually pocket and run off with from an Apple Store? An iPhone or two, or an iPad at best. Well, there's the Apple Edition watches but they're locked away, otherwise relatively low value items compared to an iMac, MacBook or Mac Pro.
It may well be better to suffer the occasional loss of demo equipment and accessories than to depress your sales with an oppressive shopping environment.
Ask yourself this question, would you feel comfortable shopping in a place where security followed you from shelf to shelf on the chance that you may be a thief?
The person you're replying to is one of the police thugs at the end of this video
Last I checked you couldn't steal a single device from there. They were all
Connected to those security wires that ring when you cut them or yank the device off.
This is stupid and the one of the crazy problems with the world right now. There is not hint of racism in the video. Complete and utter nonsense Political correctness which actually breeds and creates the problem people are apparently so outraged about.
I find it actually racist to call this racism. Your only calling it racism because the guys are black. Racism to me, is defining someone as different based on there race, which I find absolutely absurd, but half the people that shout racism are doing the exact same thing, they are defining the person as different in the first place. Even people that are "victims" of this do this, which is crazy, they put themselves into that hole then get mad at others for doing so. Crazy. This is exactly americas racism problem.
A bunch of kids, all wearing back packs, possibly causing trouble (why are they filming this at this point? What happened before for them to start?) , extremely unlikely they were there to purchase something, every right to ask them to leave. It's not racism just because they are black at no point is race mentioned.
You're the type of piece of **** that shouldn't be working at an Apple Store.
This is stupid and the one of the crazy problems with the world right now. There is not hint of racism in the video. Complete and utter nonsense Political correctness which actually breeds and creates the problem people are apparently so outraged about.
I find it actually racist to call this racism. Your only calling it racism because the guys are black. Racism to me, is defining someone as different based on there race, which I find absolutely absurd, but half the people that shout racism are doing the exact same thing, they are defining the person as different in the first place. Even people that are "victims" of this do this, which is crazy, they put themselves into that hole then get mad at others for doing so. Crazy. This is exactly americas racism problem.
A bunch of kids, all wearing back packs, possibly causing trouble (why are they filming this at this point? What happened before for them to start?) , extremely unlikely they were there to purchase something, every right to ask them to leave. It's not racism just because they are black at no point is race mentioned.
I've never gone into an Apple store in which scores of customers were not carrying backpacks, large purses, wearing thick coats or carrying such extra items that would make it "easy" to steal big time: small store Madison WI, Apple store on Michigan in Chicago, Grand Central in NYC, Apple store in Aix in Provence France.
Not that facts have any persuasive power with you. And I know the reason why, as does anyone reading your BS.
Tim Cook did a good job here. I would give the guys a gift card and fire the judge mental employee.
Agreed - the response by Cook was pitch-perfect. I didn't think it was a PR move. I'm sure they will compensate the customers in some way - likely some gift cards. The idiot that had them kicked out can now say he was personally fired by the CEO.
You're pretty clueless if you think it would have been better PR for Apple to stay completely silent about this viral video and would only keep growing without an official statement. I mean, really clueless. Whether or not there was racism involved, Tim Cook responded in absolutely the right way, from a PR perspective.
Why do you need to denigrate Apple's and Tim Cook's statements by sullying it as PR, though I acknowledge you are responding to another by reference. Tim Cook responded correctly, period, though being politic when doing so -- unlikely is the incident isolated.
That's a little harsh. Slurpy was correct that it needed a comment. To describe that comment as PR is being honest, how else would you categorize such a comment? I suspect you perceive PR as a bad thing but that maybe simply because most PR is BS, that doesn't mean all PR is.
the guy must be fired for his stupidity. What's he fucking thinking, judging people's le based on skin color? Black people don't have money? Totally bs! This employee needs to get fired and never should get a retail job again...maybe warehouse stocking should be his job so he doesn't have to deal with people. Fucking disgrace!
If the action was based on skin biased than yes he needs to learn lot and removed from that position. Has anyone asked this guy what was real reason of his action ? He may have answer that has nothing to do with freaking racism but past experience of theft with same kids. If he has seen in past those kids mishandling, damaging gadgets on display, property than he is suppose to take action as store manager. If he ignores few people doing wrong thing(mishandle,damage,steal,etc) because they are back or brown or red, blue in store than more people will be encouraged to do the same ruining business, mall,neighborhood,etc. That is what happened in America's once good neighborhood turned into like Chicago's southside or some part of whatever big city you go to.
Agreed - the response by Cook was pitch-perfect. I didn't think it was a PR move. I'm sure they will compensate the customers in some way - likely some gift cards. The idiot that had them kicked out can now say he was personally fired by the CEO.
Again, I agree but you are saying all PR is bad. It doesn't have to be, it seems so because so much PR is bad, Tim's is good.
I thought you were from the United States, land of the free? Yet you're content with someone who isn't in law enforcement carrying out an unconstitutional search of your property and detention of yourself on the suspicion you may have stolen something?
I thought the USA still held onto the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Besides, what can someone actually pocket and run off with from an Apple Store? An iPhone or two, or an iPad at best. Well, there's the Apple Edition watches but they're locked away, otherwise relatively low value items compared to an iMac, MacBook or Mac Pro.
It may well be better to suffer the occasional loss of demo equipment and accessories than to depress your sales with an oppressive shopping environment.
Ask yourself this question, would you feel comfortable shopping in a place where security followed you from shelf to shelf on the chance that you may be a thief?
Silly argument. The illegality of searches, innocent until proven guilty and all such rights apply to GOVERNMENT actions. Private actions have limits also, but they tend toward contract and tort law.
The real racist people are those who automatically think that these people were asked to leave because of the colour of their skin. There's absolutely no reason to indicate that this was the reason they were asked to leave. They were carrying bags, they may have been acting suspiciously or mucking around. If it had been a group of suspicious looking white kids with bags that were asked to leave, would it have been racist? It's a shame that people who are just doing their job by monitoring suspicious activity are branded racist, simply because the other person has different coloured skin.
While I fully agree with what Cook is saying, and believe he is serious about it,.. This corporate political correct buzzword sermon is painful. Some clear words would be better.
Would you like to enlighten us with some of those "clear words"?
Tim's statement was pretty clear and right to the point
Imo. I do believe he said the right things in the right way.
This is stupid and the one of the crazy problems with the world right now. There is not hint of racism in the video. Complete and utter nonsense Political correctness which actually breeds and creates the problem people are apparently so outraged about.
I find it actually racist to call this racism. Your only calling it racism because the guys are black. Racism to me, is defining someone as different based on there race, which I find absolutely absurd, but half the people that shout racism are doing the exact same thing, they are defining the person as different in the first place. Even people that are "victims" of this do this, which is crazy, they put themselves into that hole then get mad at others for doing so. Crazy. This is exactly americas racism problem.
A bunch of kids, all wearing back packs, possibly causing trouble (why are they filming this at this point? What happened before for them to start?) , extremely unlikely they were there to purchase something, every right to ask them to leave. It's not racism just because they are black at no point is race mentioned.
Yeah! That make a lot of sense! A group of black teenager, students, with backpacks, can
only be walking into an Apple Store to steal. Never in a million years would they
Be able to just come in an buy something. Nope! No way! You already told us so.
You are the expert. You looked at them and were able to determine, that they were
A group of poor, ghetto, gangsters, black teenager, who were there just to steal,
From them good white folk. You should call their government and get them a medal
For their good deed! While you are at it, send them a check and a job application to a
Place where they won't have to deal with such a horrible experience again.
They may still have a retail problem, especially outside United States.
They used to work under the authority of the best salesman this planet has ever seen and didn't worry about their own marketing and sales skills. Now that he's gone, time to learn something about selling, especially in retail, especially face to face, on front lines... The formation of a good Apple salesman takes years...
If the action was based on skin biased than yes he needs to learn lot and removed from that position. Has anyone asked this guy what was real reason of his action ? He may have answer that has nothing to do with freaking racism but past experience of theft with same kids. If he has seen in past those kids mishandling, damaging gadgets on display, property than he is suppose to take action as store manager. If he ignores few people doing wrong thing(mishandle,damage,steal,etc) because they are back or brown or red, blue in store than more people will be encouraged to do the same ruining business, mall,neighborhood,etc. That is what happened in America's once good neighborhood turned into like Chicago's southside or some part of whatever big city you go to.
"Past"? You use the "Past" to justify your actions "Now"? No further comment. You should never be in retail business.
Would you like to enlighten us with some of those "clear words"?
Tim's statement was pretty clear and right to the point
Imo. I do believe he said the right things in the right way.
Not sure it will be enlightening, but some points (and just to say it again, I agree on the "right things", just not "the right way")...
Quote:
What people have seen and heard from watching the video on the web does not represent our values
No need to lecture people on Apple's values. Companies are not expected to have values, everybody knows they, at large, have none without the prefix "shareholder". Clear statements could have been "we do not tolerate any kind of discrimination", "we do not instruct our staff to perform racial profiling"etc. Pointing to nebulous "values" is not containing any other information than "we are great, we have values". It is 100% PR speak.
Quote:
"Our stores and our hearts are open to people from all walks of life, regardless of race or religion, gender or sexual orientation, age, disability, income, language or point of view," Cook wrote. "All across our company, being inclusive and embracing our differences makes our products better and our stores stronger."
Another "we are so great" PR bubble that was not asked for (almost none of the "groups" mentioned here were even involved). Reads like written by committee. "Did I forget something?""Shouldn't we mention hydrocephalus with low income Tim?" Voice from the back "Won't fit through the door anyhow." Laughter.
There is no point in saying we are constitutional, as nobody (operating retail chains) would come out saying we are not. It is not something that makes you stand out, it is what everybody can expect. Inclusion and "embracing our differences" are shallow gibberish. Inclusion is a buzzword without any meaning, there is only one human race and there is nothing to embrace here, exclusion is the exception in nature, not the norm (e.g. there is no discrimination between black and white poodles, it requires human fear and greed to create such a concept), nothing to brag about here. Won't hold up a sign saying "I'm decent!" either.
"Makes our products better and stronger" is complete fail. Are you addressing concerned groups of people, the customer's money, and/or shareholders ("look Ma, we are not really that good, but it helps the bottom line")? I am not saying that is what Cook thinks, but that is how it sounds.
Quote:
"While I firmly believe that this was an isolated incident rather than a symptom of a broader problem in our stores, we will use this moment as an opportunity to learn and grow. Our store leadership teams around the world, starting in Australia, will be refreshing their training on inclusion and customer engagement. These are concepts and practices they know well, but can always stand to reinforce."
"Learn and grow"? Sorry, but a corporation is neither a support group nor a family. Worse, you do not "own" employees and you don't control what is on their minds. Stop pretending that. If you show a racist an 8-hour presentation about "inclusion and customer engagement", he will still be a racist, just more pissed. You are an employer and what you can and should do is a) give very clear instructions on what is expected (e.g. which conditions lead to showing customers the door, where being drunk, smelly or rude could be valid reasons, and having the "wrong" color an invalid reason), and b) be very clear which behavior or violation of these instructions lead to instant termination. And then execute that.
There would be more to say, but I am well in TL;DR territory.
White guys lecturing us on the fine points of what racism is. Hilarious.
But white guys are the biggest victims of racism, don't you know¡
Actually, yes they are.
When was the last time you heard of a group of white men, targeting a black man and beating him, for being black and in the wrong neighborhood? Or a gang of white people going into a convenience store and "flash mob rob" the place? Or how about a gang of white men raping a black woman? Statistically speaking - it NEVER happens. However, it's so common to see a gang of blacks going "Polar Bear Hunting" or playing the "Knock out game", robbing, muggings, rapings, thefts are so common that they are an everyday occurrence. They happen everywhere.
And if you point out that blacks make up only ~12% of the population, yet contribute greater than 50% of the violent crime - you are labelled a racist. If you point out that blacks make up only ~12% of the population, yet overwhelmingly are over-represented on welfare recipients, you are also a racist. Yet, these are measurable, quantifiable and verifiable facts. Name the vice, whether it's gangs, drugs, teenage pregnancy, alcoholism, rape, burglary, identity theft, robbery or gun related criminal activity - blacks are way over-represented. To say anything else is simply a racist lie - because these facts are very easy to verify.
Why do Asians, whites and people from India feel comfortable congregating together? Because, statistically they are safe in each other company.
Instead of pointing the fingers at the victims of the crimes, how about we actually ask the black community to join the rest of civilization? Blacks have a cultural problem - no matter where you go in the world, no matter what time period in human history you pick - these problems are persistent, and the same tired excuse it trotted out over and over again. Everyone else is racist.
Comments
The person you're replying to is one of the police thugs at the end of this video
Last I checked you couldn't steal a single device from there. They were all
Connected to those security wires that ring when you cut them or yank the device off.
You're the type of piece of **** that shouldn't be working at an Apple Store.
This is stupid and the one of the crazy problems with the world right now. There is not hint of racism in the video. Complete and utter nonsense Political correctness which actually breeds and creates the problem people are apparently so outraged about.
I find it actually racist to call this racism. Your only calling it racism because the guys are black. Racism to me, is defining someone as different based on there race, which I find absolutely absurd, but half the people that shout racism are doing the exact same thing, they are defining the person as different in the first place. Even people that are "victims" of this do this, which is crazy, they put themselves into that hole then get mad at others for doing so. Crazy. This is exactly americas racism problem.
A bunch of kids, all wearing back packs, possibly causing trouble (why are they filming this at this point? What happened before for them to start?) , extremely unlikely they were there to purchase something, every right to ask them to leave. It's not racism just because they are black at no point is race mentioned.
I've never gone into an Apple store in which scores of customers were not carrying backpacks, large purses, wearing thick coats or carrying such extra items that would make it "easy" to steal big time: small store Madison WI, Apple store on Michigan in Chicago, Grand Central in NYC, Apple store in Aix in Provence France.
Not that facts have any persuasive power with you. And I know the reason why, as does anyone reading your BS.
Tim Cook did a good job here. I would give the guys a gift card and fire the judge mental employee.
Agreed - the response by Cook was pitch-perfect. I didn't think it was a PR move. I'm sure they will compensate the customers in some way - likely some gift cards. The idiot that had them kicked out can now say he was personally fired by the CEO.
Totally agree.
That's a little harsh. Slurpy was correct that it needed a comment. To describe that comment as PR is being honest, how else would you categorize such a comment? I suspect you perceive PR as a bad thing but that maybe simply because most PR is BS, that doesn't mean all PR is.
the guy must be fired for his stupidity. What's he fucking thinking, judging people's le based on skin color? Black people don't have money? Totally bs! This employee needs to get fired and never should get a retail job again...maybe warehouse stocking should be his job so he doesn't have to deal with people. Fucking disgrace!
If the action was based on skin biased than yes he needs to learn lot and removed from that position. Has anyone asked this guy what was real reason of his action ? He may have answer that has nothing to do with freaking racism but past experience of theft with same kids. If he has seen in past those kids mishandling, damaging gadgets on display, property than he is suppose to take action as store manager. If he ignores few people doing wrong thing(mishandle,damage,steal,etc) because they are back or brown or red, blue in store than more people will be encouraged to do the same ruining business, mall,neighborhood,etc. That is what happened in America's once good neighborhood turned into like Chicago's southside or some part of whatever big city you go to.
Again, I agree but you are saying all PR is bad. It doesn't have to be, it seems so because so much PR is bad, Tim's is good.
I thought you were from the United States, land of the free? Yet you're content with someone who isn't in law enforcement carrying out an unconstitutional search of your property and detention of yourself on the suspicion you may have stolen something?
I thought the USA still held onto the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Besides, what can someone actually pocket and run off with from an Apple Store? An iPhone or two, or an iPad at best. Well, there's the Apple Edition watches but they're locked away, otherwise relatively low value items compared to an iMac, MacBook or Mac Pro.
It may well be better to suffer the occasional loss of demo equipment and accessories than to depress your sales with an oppressive shopping environment.
Ask yourself this question, would you feel comfortable shopping in a place where security followed you from shelf to shelf on the chance that you may be a thief?
Silly argument. The illegality of searches, innocent until proven guilty and all such rights apply to GOVERNMENT actions. Private actions have limits also, but they tend toward contract and tort law.
Would you like to enlighten us with some of those "clear words"?
Tim's statement was pretty clear and right to the point
Imo. I do believe he said the right things in the right way.
Yeah! That make a lot of sense! A group of black teenager, students, with backpacks, can
only be walking into an Apple Store to steal. Never in a million years would they
Be able to just come in an buy something. Nope! No way! You already told us so.
You are the expert. You looked at them and were able to determine, that they were
A group of poor, ghetto, gangsters, black teenager, who were there just to steal,
From them good white folk. You should call their government and get them a medal
For their good deed! While you are at it, send them a check and a job application to a
Place where they won't have to deal with such a horrible experience again.
They used to work under the authority of the best salesman this planet has ever seen and didn't worry about their own marketing and sales skills. Now that he's gone, time to learn something about selling, especially in retail, especially face to face, on front lines... The formation of a good Apple salesman takes years...
White guys lecturing us on the fine points of what racism is. Hilarious.
But white guys are the biggest victims of racism, don't you know¡
Would you like to enlighten us with some of those "clear words"?
Tim's statement was pretty clear and right to the point
Imo. I do believe he said the right things in the right way.
Not sure it will be enlightening, but some points (and just to say it again, I agree on the "right things", just not "the right way")...
No need to lecture people on Apple's values. Companies are not expected to have values, everybody knows they, at large, have none without the prefix "shareholder". Clear statements could have been "we do not tolerate any kind of discrimination", "we do not instruct our staff to perform racial profiling"etc. Pointing to nebulous "values" is not containing any other information than "we are great, we have values". It is 100% PR speak.
Another "we are so great" PR bubble that was not asked for (almost none of the "groups" mentioned here were even involved). Reads like written by committee. "Did I forget something?""Shouldn't we mention hydrocephalus with low income Tim?" Voice from the back "Won't fit through the door anyhow." Laughter.
There is no point in saying we are constitutional, as nobody (operating retail chains) would come out saying we are not. It is not something that makes you stand out, it is what everybody can expect. Inclusion and "embracing our differences" are shallow gibberish. Inclusion is a buzzword without any meaning, there is only one human race and there is nothing to embrace here, exclusion is the exception in nature, not the norm (e.g. there is no discrimination between black and white poodles, it requires human fear and greed to create such a concept), nothing to brag about here. Won't hold up a sign saying "I'm decent!" either.
"Makes our products better and stronger" is complete fail. Are you addressing concerned groups of people, the customer's money, and/or shareholders ("look Ma, we are not really that good, but it helps the bottom line")? I am not saying that is what Cook thinks, but that is how it sounds.
"Learn and grow"? Sorry, but a corporation is neither a support group nor a family. Worse, you do not "own" employees and you don't control what is on their minds. Stop pretending that. If you show a racist an 8-hour presentation about "inclusion and customer engagement", he will still be a racist, just more pissed. You are an employer and what you can and should do is a) give very clear instructions on what is expected (e.g. which conditions lead to showing customers the door, where being drunk, smelly or rude could be valid reasons, and having the "wrong" color an invalid reason), and b) be very clear which behavior or violation of these instructions lead to instant termination. And then execute that.
There would be more to say, but I am well in TL;DR territory.
White guys lecturing us on the fine points of what racism is. Hilarious.
But white guys are the biggest victims of racism, don't you know¡
Actually, yes they are.
When was the last time you heard of a group of white men, targeting a black man and beating him, for being black and in the wrong neighborhood? Or a gang of white people going into a convenience store and "flash mob rob" the place? Or how about a gang of white men raping a black woman? Statistically speaking - it NEVER happens. However, it's so common to see a gang of blacks going "Polar Bear Hunting" or playing the "Knock out game", robbing, muggings, rapings, thefts are so common that they are an everyday occurrence. They happen everywhere.
And if you point out that blacks make up only ~12% of the population, yet contribute greater than 50% of the violent crime - you are labelled a racist. If you point out that blacks make up only ~12% of the population, yet overwhelmingly are over-represented on welfare recipients, you are also a racist. Yet, these are measurable, quantifiable and verifiable facts. Name the vice, whether it's gangs, drugs, teenage pregnancy, alcoholism, rape, burglary, identity theft, robbery or gun related criminal activity - blacks are way over-represented. To say anything else is simply a racist lie - because these facts are very easy to verify.
Why do Asians, whites and people from India feel comfortable congregating together? Because, statistically they are safe in each other company.
Instead of pointing the fingers at the victims of the crimes, how about we actually ask the black community to join the rest of civilization? Blacks have a cultural problem - no matter where you go in the world, no matter what time period in human history you pick - these problems are persistent, and the same tired excuse it trotted out over and over again. Everyone else is racist.
Want to try again with an actual argument, please?