Apple's new iPad Pro is faster, more affordable than Microsoft's Surface Pro 4

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  • Reply 241 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    a guy with a 4-post history says the "prevailing opinion" is the MS stylus is better than the Pencil, never mind that Pencil just came out and is hard to find. okay....nice astroturfing, guy.

    Just going by what I've seen thus far, but nice creeping, guy. I normally don't need to comment on things like this, but the article popped up in my news feed and was utterly laughable - it couldn't even be bothered to get the configurations of the products it was bashing correct, much less stop itself from lying by omission.

     

    I guess I was just expecting the Pro to stand up on its own merits, and not need someone outright lying and presenting that as news.

  • Reply 242 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    The Apple Pencil blows away the Surface stylus.  

     

    Here is what a REAL professional said about the Pencil:

     

    "On the other hand, Apple Pencil worked really, really well. I’ve tried a few different brands of styluses in the past, and never have I been wowed like I am with this one. "

     

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/13/9728140/ipad-pro-apple-pencil-stylus-adobe-draw-sketch-comp

     

     

    No one is giving the Surface $20 stylus that type of praise.

     

    I'm not here to bash the Surface stylus.  My whole point is saying the Surface stylus and the Apple Pencil are equals is ridiculous.


     

    That's just factually incorrect. First of all, the Surface Pro doesn't have a "stylus", it uses an active digitizer pen. The article you quoted is talking about the capacitive styluses for the other iPad devices. They are not comparable devices. She never once mentions Surface in the entire article. 

     

    Everyone who's used both has put the Surface Pen (which is $60 if you want to buy an extra one) and iPad Pro's "Pencil" has described them as being similar experiences. The Surface Pen does have different swappable tip options, something you don't get with the Pencil, and eraser functionality. But the general functionality and writing experience seems to be very similar. I am interested to hear some artist/designer thoughts on it though, especially the new version from the SP4 versus the Apple Pencil. Perhaps Gabe from Penny Arcade will do a comparison at some point - he was a well known fan of the Surface Pro 2 and 3 pens and uses them to draw the strip when traveling.

  • Reply 243 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Oh great.  Another Microsoft troll with 11 posts.


     

    What an insightful contribution you've made here.

  • Reply 244 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

     

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I personally know a video editing startup that make extensive use of the Surface Pro 3 for their work. I also know people in the advertising business who do the same. People also use MacBook Pros for this kind of work. No, neither is a replacement for a workstation and you aren't going to run a national TV broadcast from it or anything, but to pretend that is the kind of video editing work the OP was talking about is absurd and I assume disingenuous.

     

    Surface Pros are actually excellent devices for lots of high-end work. Mine was my primary development machine for over a year, with a dock hooked up to a 4K monitor in my office. I've now replaced it with a Surface Book, primarily for the battery life and GPU. It's great at all the things the rMBP 13" is great at, but with better performance, a better display, and a touch screen / tablet mode which it turns out is pretty helpful when you're developing mobile apps. And of course Windows is just a better environment for developers (Apple's iOS development lock-in notwithstanding).


     

    Video editing startup = your cousin Vinny making amateur porn in his garage, I guess.

     

    My "bubble" is based on 15 years of experience editing television and advertising.  I have literally never seen anyone do such professional work on any laptop, MacBook, Surface, you name it.   Home movies, sure.  Wedding videos.... probably.  But I'm sure your extensive imaginary expertise in this field trumps all that... on the internet... 

     

    Comparing the Surface Book to an iPad Pro is truly laughable.  A well-equipped Surface Book is nearly 3 times the cost of a maxed-out iPad Pro ($2699 versus $949; around $1200 for the iPad if you get the keyboard and pencil).  The top end Surface Book is well over 3 grand ($3199 to be exact).    Leave it to a Microsoft fanboy to try to compare those two devices with a straight face.   Hilariously, a completely maxed out 13-inch Mac Book Pro (i7, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB storage, just like the top end Surface Book) is $500 cheaper than the Microsoft product -- $2699, yet you are comparing the Surface Book to the iPad Pro... thanks for the laugh.

     

    p.s. I love you guys on the internet who are experts as developing mobile apps, IT security, and television editing.  You must have spent 40 years in grad school!

  • Reply 245 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Every single of your dozen posts is about Microsoft products. You are not fooling anyone.

     

    The Apple Pencil is getting universal praise as one of the best drawing and writing tools ever. People are comparing the experience to $2000 professional tools.

     

    The Surface stylus is an after thought. Its decent but the same as a $30 generic 


     

    lol what? Who am I trying to "fool"?

     

    And no, no it isn't. Almost no one even has the Apple Pencil as they haven't shipped it yet, and most reviews say "yup it draws, but I don't know what to do with it because I'm not an artist."

     

    The Surface Pro 1 and 2 used Wacom digitizers and were universally praised as being fantastic replacements for traditional separate Wacom or Cintiq desktop digitizers. The evidence all over the internet proves you wrong. The SP3 switched to N-Trig tech (combining touch and active pen into a thinner panel). At release it had some issues that they fixed with software + firmware updates, but even though it had a lower resolution pressure resolution (256 levels versus 1024 in the Wacom solution), artists like Gabe from PA still loved it. Since then, MS bought N-Trig and the SP4 has an even better version of their combined tech (back to 1024 pressure levels, on the thinnest touch+pen+display stack ever).

     

    It's too early to say if the Apple Pencil is on the same level. It might be comparable, but there's no evidence anywhere to suggest that it's better.

     

    Also, calling something an "afterthought" when they clearly built the whole device around it from the very beginning through four generations, and include it with every model (not as an overpriced optional extra) is just plain ridiculous.

  • Reply 246 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    More proof that the pencil BLOWS away the Suface generic sytlus

     

    " In apps that support it, the Pencil is an unbelievably accurate, fine instrument for creation or control. When you write or draw, it feels like ink is coming straight from its tip. You can shade with the side of the Pencil, write in beautiful calligraphy, or sketch with amazing accuracy.

    The Pencil works so well because it gets special access to the Pro’s software. To set it up, just plug it into the Lightning port. After that, whenever your iPad detects the Pencil touching the display, it doubles the screen’s read rate so it checks for movement 240 times a second. That, plus pressure sensitivity and real-time measuring of the Pencil’s angle and position, means the Pencil puts out much more data than you’ll get from any other stylus. You can use others, but the Pencil is special."

    http://www.wired.com/2015/11/apple-ipad-pro-review/

     

    "The Pencil’s greatest feature, then, is its precision. In my experience there was almost no latency between the Pencil and the screen; it really felt like I was using a pencil or pen. Unlike styluses that rely on Bluetooth connectivity, the iPad Pro senses when a stylus is near the display and scans for a "tip signal" 240 times per second, Apple says. There are also sensors in the tip of the stylus that detect pressure and tilt, for stuff like shading.(Surface Pro does not do tilt)" 

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9705966/apple-ipad-pro-review

     

    " I’ve had him use a regular iPad and stylus combo before, and he wasn’t wowed. I also had him take a Surface Pro for a spin — but the iPad Pro and Pencil just destroyed it when it came to fluidity and precision."

    http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/11/test-2/?ncid=rss#.tsd6ztf:pPzq

     

    Game Over. The Apple Pencil blows away the generic Surface stylus




    The Surface Pen does not use Bluetooth (except for the cap button).? It's exactly the same induction/EMR tech being used in the Apple Pencil. It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

     

    It will be interesting to see some artists compare the two.

  • Reply 247 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by radiospace View Post

     

     

    Video editing startup = your cousin Vinny making amateur porn in his garage, I guess

     

    My "bubble" is based on 15 years of experience editing television and advertising.  I have literally never seen anyone do such professional work on any laptop, MacBook, Surface, you name it.   Home movies, sure.  Wedding videos.... probably.  But I'm sure your extensive imaginary expertise in this field trumps all that... on the internet... 

     

    Comparing the Surface Book to an iPad Pro is truly laughable.  A well-equipped Surface Book is nearly 3 times the cost of a maxed-out iPad Pro ($2699 versus $949; around $1200 for the iPad if you get the keyboard and pencil).  The top end Surface Book is well over 3 grand ($3199 to be exact).    Leave it to a Microsoft fanboy to try to compare those two devices with a straight face.   Hilariously, a completely maxed out 13-inch Mac Book Pro (i7, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB storage, just like the top end Surface Book) is $500 cheaper than the Microsoft product -- $2699, yet you are comparing the Surface Book to the iPad Pro... thanks for the laugh.

     

    p.s. I love you guys on the internet who are experts as developing mobile apps, IT security, and television editing.  You must have spent 40 years in grad school!


     

    I'm the CTO of a tech startup (which is not exactly a secret). Our office used to be at the WeWork co-working space. There was a video editing/production company there using Surface Pros. In fact, there was a second one who gave a presentation there which I forgot about (but they were making a video editing app, and I'm not sure it was actually going anywhere).

     

    I actually have some limited video editing experience (used to do a lot with Vegas back in the day, and some effects work with Combustion back in college), but no I've never claimed to be an expert in that field. I always did most or all of that work on desktops/workstations, but there's really no reason these days I couldn't do that on a Surface, both on the go and docked to a/some large monitors.

     

    I never compared the Surface Book to the iPad Pro. Not once. Making things up adds nothing to the discussion. I very clearly compared it to the rMBP. Perhaps you should read posts before replying to them.

     

    There's nothing "hilarious" about the top end Surface Book being $500 more than the top end rMBP 13". The Surface Book has a larger and higher resolution touch screen, a pen (which is $100 in Apple money), and an NVidia GPU. That pricing actually makes perfect sense.

     

    I never once mentioned IT security (though obviously that is an area I have quite a lot of expertise in), and I'm pretty sure you're the only one in the thread who has mentioned television. It's also very odd that you consider expertise in any of these to have anything to do with grad school (let alone whatever remedial program you think would take 40 years to handle three subjects).

  • Reply 248 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    The quotes above are by artist.



    And one one of them flat out stated the pencil blows away the Surface and the other said its the best stylus on the market.



    I've never heard a single serious top level artist use the surface pen for their art work. The guys at Disney and Pixar already are lining up to get the pencil.

     

    No they weren't. Lauren Goode is a tech reviewer at The Verge, not an artist. Neither is David Pierce. Neither of them made any comparison to the Surface Pro, either. They only mentioned capacitive styluses shipped for the iPad, which are obviously a completely different animal.

     

    Only the TC article mentioned that the reviewer's father was an artist who tried it. They casually mention that he "tried the Surface Pro" but don't provide any details about which version or what software was being used. The software you choose makes a huge difference in the experience, and that one vague sentence is literally the only thing he says about the Surface. Is that really the one thing you're going on?

     

    I can't find anyone who's compared the two directly. But AnandTech's forthcoming review may be interesting. Their preview piece about note taking on the iPad Pro had this in the last paragraph:

     

    "Obviously, there’s much more to this tablet than just how the stylus behaves, but so far the Apple Pencil is a seriously impressive stylus. Whether this is comparable or better than competitors like the Surface Pro is something I'm going to hold off on discussing until the full review - that alone can be quite the discussion - but so far I’ve found the iPad Pro to be a great tablet.?"

  • Reply 249 of 324
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post

     

     

    Well if the iPad Pro sells 2.5 million units this month.... that is still probably more than half the volume Microsoft has for the Surface in a complete year.....  I would consider that a success for a niche product that the iPad Pro was aimed for.


     

    I expect the Ipad pro will sell 4-5M by the end of the year... Yup, a absolute unmitigated failure... (sic)

  • Reply 250 of 324
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

     

    Our office used to be at the WeWork co-working space. There was a video editing/production company there using Surface Pros.

     

     


     

    Which makes you an expert on video editing... now I get it!

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    I actually have some limited video editing experience (used to do a lot with Vegas back in the day, and some effects work with Combustion back in college), but no I've never claimed to be an expert in that field. 


     

    I actually have some limited experience playing quarterback (used to toss a ball around with my brother in the yard), but I would never tell a pro football player, "Sorry to burst your bubble, but..." and then proceed to lecture them on their brand of shoulder pads.  Which is in fact exactly what you did with me, which better be a way of claiming you are an expert in the field, because otherwise, why did you open your mouth to begin with?

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    I always did most or all of that work on desktops/workstations, but there's really no reason these days I couldn't do that on a Surface, both on the go and docked to a/some large monitors.


     

    Oh, wait, I thought you just said you never claimed to be an expert in television and yet here you are telling us there's no reason you couldn't do that work on a Surface.  But how would you know, if you aren't an expert?  Oh, that's right, you're the CTO OF A STARTUP, therefore you know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING.. got it!

     

    Let me give you a few reasons why not only a Surface, but any Windows computer is an incredibly poor choice for video editing:

     

    1.  99.9% percent of the people you are going to be interacting with are going to be using Mac-based systems.  By choosing Windows you are ensuring that any collaboration or freelance work you engage in is going to be fraught with completely unnecessary technological issues.  And for no good reason -- there is no good reason to choose Windows computing over Mac for video editing.

     

    2.  Some companies are still using versions of Final Cut Pro to do TV post production.  You will not be able to accept any such project if you are using Windows computers.

     

    3.  The vast majority of good editors have the vast majority of their work experience on Macs (see point 1), therefore you are going to create bad moral and poorer work from your freelance hires if they are frustrated by the unusual use of Windows as an editing platform.  (Or you are going to limit your potential employees to a very small subset of all available editors if you only hire people who have substantial experience editing on Windows).

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    I never compared the Surface Book to the iPad Pro. Not once. Making things up adds nothing to the discussion. I very clearly compared it to the rMBP. Perhaps you should read posts before replying to them.


     

    This thread is about the iPad Pro, not the Mac Book Pro... by bringing up the merits of the Surface Book in this thread, you are by definition comparing it to the iPad Pro.  Perhaps you should read thread titles before posting to them.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    There's nothing "hilarious" about the top end Surface Book being $500 more than the top end rMBP 13". The Surface Book has a larger and higher resolution touch screen, a pen (which is $100 in Apple money), and an NVidia GPU. That pricing actually makes perfect sense.


     

    No, it really is hilarious, because you are slickly trying to badmouth the $949 iPad Pro by comparing it to a device that is not only triple its price, but significantly more expensive than a fully loaded, comparable Mac Book Pro.  

     

    It's equally hilarious that you are adding the cost of the Apple Pencil to a Mac Book Pro... when it doesn't have a touch screen!

     

    "Larger screen" 13.5" versus 13".  Is that really worth $500?

     

    I'm not going to crap all over the Surface Book's specs, though, because as I have stated elsewhere, I think it's a great, if extremely pricey, device, and is certainly a top choice for someone looking for a high end Windows laptop with a touchscreen. 

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    I'm pretty sure you're the only one in the thread who has mentioned television. 


     

    Except for the part where you mentioned it to "burst my bubble", then said you weren't an expert, then mentioned again how you could do pro editing work on a Surface, because you were next door to a company that did video editing, so you are kind of an expert, but you never mentioned it, but you would like us to know your expert qualifications and also you used Vegas once or twice.  (Just to recap that part of the discussion that you are conveniently forgetting).  

     

    And then there was the guy I was responding to who brought up the idea of the Surface being better than the iPad Pro because you could conceivably do video editing on it.   Surely you read that original post, right?  I mean you did just say, "maybe you should read a post before replying to it"?  Or did you not say that?  Are you an expert on reading posts before replying to them or not, is what I guess I'm getting at....?

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    It's also very odd that you consider expertise in any of these to have anything to do with grad school (let alone whatever remedial program you think would take 40 years to handle three subjects).


     

    I'm sure you are self-taught and an expert in many fields, in fact, probably in most fields (if I get a tumor I will be contacting you to perform radiation oncology on it, in fact, so just keep an eye open for that message down the road -- you did drive by a clinic on the way to work this morning and soak up the expertise, didn't you?).  

     

    And I have no doubt that a brilliant individual like yourself, who, being self-taught, has never had any occasion to attend a higher education institution whatsoever.  

     

    So what I'm saying is, I completely understand how from your exalted perspective the idea that someone would go to, say, the best film school in the world in order to learn the craft is completely mystifying, because heck, you were able to become an expert in it just by working next door to a video production company.  I totally get it!  Some of us just aren't quite that bright... and pardon us for it.

  • Reply 251 of 324
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    I'm the CTO of a tech startup (which is not exactly a secret). Our office used to be at the WeWork co-working space. There was a video editing/production company there using Surface Pros. In fact, there was a second one who gave a presentation there which I forgot about (but they were making a video editing app, and I'm not sure it was actually going anywhere).

     

    I actually have some limited video editing experience (used to do a lot with Vegas back in the day, and some effects work with Combustion back in college), but no I've never claimed to be an expert in that field. I always did most or all of that work on desktops/workstations, but there's really no reason these days I couldn't do that on a Surface, both on the go and docked to a/some large monitors.

     

    I never compared the Surface Book to the iPad Pro. Not once. Making things up adds nothing to the discussion. I very clearly compared it to the rMBP. Perhaps you should read posts before replying to them.

     

    There's nothing "hilarious" about the top end Surface Book being $500 more than the top end rMBP 13". The Surface Book has a larger and higher resolution touch screen, a pen (which is $100 in Apple money), and an NVidia GPU. That pricing actually makes perfect sense.

     

    I never once mentioned IT security (though obviously that is an area I have quite a lot of expertise in), and I'm pretty sure you're the only one in the thread who has mentioned television. It's also very odd that you consider expertise in any of these to have anything to do with grad school (let alone whatever remedial program you think would take 40 years to handle three subjects).


     

    Plenty of people actually compared the Surface  Pro and the Ipad pro, look for it more. 

    They don't compare, not even close. You know how to google; do it now.

     

    BTW. I was a CTO/senior architect, etc, starting nearly 17 years ago.

     

    And yes, Surface PRO is a POS tablet; I've had the displeasure of using it.

  • Reply 252 of 324

     

    Nope. Which means exactly what I said. There are video production companies using Surface Pros. That was the entirety of my claim and the entirety of my point. Your straw man is not contributing to the discussion.

     

    Quote:

     I actually have some limited experience playing quarterback (used to toss a ball around with my brother in the yard), but I would never tell a pro football player, "Sorry to burst your bubble, but..." and then proceed to lecture them on their brand of shoulder pads.  Which is in fact exactly what you did with me, which better be a way of claiming you are an expert in the field, because otherwise, why did you open your mouth to begin with?




     

    You said no one would use a Surface Pro for video production work. I told you about people who do.

     

    Quote:

     Oh, wait, I thought you just said you never claimed to be an expert in television and yet here you are telling us there's no reason you couldn't do that work on a Surface.  But how would you know, if you aren't an expert?  Oh, that's right, you're the CTO OF A STARTUP, therefore you know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING.. got it!


     

    I never said anyone would do television work. I said there are kinds of video production besides Hollywood TV production, and specifically said that the projects *I* did could absolutely be done on a Surface.

     

    By the way, I now no longer believe that you are in TV production.

     

    Quote:

    Let me give you a few reasons why not only a Surface, but any Windows computer is an incredibly poor choice for video editing:

     

    1.  99.9% percent of the people you are going to be interacting with are going to be using Mac-based systems.  By choosing Windows you are ensuring that any collaboration or freelance work you engage in is going to be fraught with completely unnecessary technological issues.  And for no good reason -- there is no good reason to choose Windows computing over Mac for video editing.

     

    2.  Some companies are still using versions of Final Cut Pro to do TV post production.  You will not be able to accept any such project if you are using Windows computers.

     

    3.  The vast majority of good editors have the vast majority of their work experience on Macs (see point 1), therefore you are going to create bad moral and poorer work from your freelance hires if they are frustrated by the unusual use of Windows as an editing platform.  (Or you are going to limit your potential employees to a very small subset of all available editors if you only hire people who have substantial experience editing on Windows).



     

    I know that Macs are very popular in the video production/editing field. However there are many who use Windows for this, and there are many great tools like Sony Vegas that rival or best their Mac counterparts. And a lot of the high end effects stuff (like all the Combustion/Toxik stuff that rolled into Maya) is available cross-platform.

     

    Again, TV is only a small part of the video production market.

     

    Quote:

     This thread is about the iPad Pro, not the Mac Book Pro... by bringing up the merits of the Surface Book in this thread, you are by definition comparing it to the iPad Pro.  Perhaps you should read thread titles before posting to them.


     

    I was responding to your post where you mentioned it. I did not and would not compare it to the iPad Pro as I don't think anyone considering one would consider an iPad Pro as a viable alternative.

     

    Quote:

     No, it really is hilarious, because you are slickly trying to badmouth the $949 iPad Pro by comparing it to a device that is not only triple its price, but significantly more expensive than a fully loaded, comparable Mac Book Pro.  


     

    I have not badmouthed the iPad Pro once, anywhere. I also haven't compared it to anything here. And no, the Surface book is comparably priced to a comparable MacBook Pro.

     

    Quote:

     It's equally hilarious that you are adding the cost of the Apple Pencil to a Mac Book Pro... when it doesn't have a touch screen!

     

    "Larger screen" 13.5" versus 13".  Is that really worth $500?



     

    It's a 3:2 screen. The surface area of the display is significantly larger than if it were the same aspect ratio as the MBP. You wanted to know why the $3200 SB is $500 more than the $2700 MBP. I told you: Because it has a larger, touch-enabled screen, a pen, and a discrete GPU. If you compare the cheaper dGPU models to the equivalent MacBook, they are not $500 more.

     

    Quote:

     I'm not going to crap all over the Surface Book's specs, though, because as I have stated elsewhere, I think it's a great, if extremely pricey, device, and is certainly a top choice for someone looking for a high end Windows laptop with a touchscreen.  (See how easy that was, fanboy?)


     

    You must have me confused with somebody else.

     

    Quote:

    Except for the part where you mentioned it to "burst my bubble", then said you weren't an expert, then mentioned again how you could do pro editing work on a Surface, because you were next door to a company that did video editing, so you are kind of an expert, but you never mentioned it, but you would like us to know your expert qualifications and also you used Vegas once or twice.  (Just to recap that part of the discussion that you are conveniently forgetting).  


     

    I never once claimed to be an expert, nor did I say anything which would require me to be. You said no one would ever use a Surface for video editing. I disputed this because I know it to be untrue.

     

    Quote:

     And then there was the guy I was responding to who brought up the idea of the Surface being better than the iPad Pro because you could conceivably do video editing on it.   Surely you read that original post, right?  I mean you did just say, "maybe you should read a post before replying to it"?  Or did you not say that?  Are you an expert on reading posts before replying to them or not, is what I guess I'm getting at....?


     

    It is a valid point. The Surface Pro 4 is currently a much more capable device than the iPad Pro, largely because of the software available (but also for other reasons, like having a trackpad). Surely the iPad Pro will become more capable if/when more software is built for it. Though it's easy to say it won't replace a MacBook or a Surface for many kinds of tasks (of which serious video editing is likely to be one).

     

    Quote:

     I'm sure you are self-taught and an expert in many fields, in fact, probably in most fields (if I get a tumor I will be contacting you to perform radiation oncology on it, in fact, so just keep an eye open for that message down the road -- you did drive by a clinic on the way to work this morning and soak up the expertise, didn't you?).  


     

    I could tell you how medicine is a unique field with an exceptionally long and intense (and effective) education regimen, and thus a poor counterpoint to my statement.

     

    Quote:

     And I have no doubt that a brilliant individual like yourself, who, being self-taught, has never had any occasion to attend a higher education institution whatsoever.  


     

    Yeah, those college video editing classes I mentioned definitely didn't happen at one of those!

     

    Quote:


    So what I'm saying is, I completely understand how from your exalted perspective the idea that someone would go to, say, the best film school in the world in order to learn the craft is completely mystifying, because heck, you were able to become an expert in it just by working next door to a video production company.  I totally get it!  Some of us just aren't quite that bright... and pardon us for it.



     

    Being an expert in mobile app development and/or IT security requires no grad school, let alone decades of it.

  • Reply 253 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

     

    Plenty of people actually compared the Surface  Pro and the Ipad pro, look for it more. 

    They don't compare, not even close. You know how to google; do it now.


     

    Please point me to one. I've searched extensively and have not found any detailed comparisons, and no comparisons at all (other than that one vague sentence from TC) of the pen/pencils.

     

    Quote:

    And yes, Surface PRO is a POS tablet; I've had the displeasure of using it.



     

    I have my doubts that you have, but you know what they say about opinions.

     

    Personally, I've found it to be a fantastic device. I am far from alone. Apple also must think highly of it to imitate it ;-)

  • Reply 254 of 324
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

     

    Grow up.


     

    You appear to have reverted to your last, desperate rhetorical device -- ad hominem.  Not the least bit surprising.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    Being an expert in mobile app development and/or IT security requires no grad school, let alone decades of it. If you spent 40 years in grad school for film that is great for you. Perhaps you should've spent some of that time learning how to converse with others in a civilized manner.


     

    I never said or implied that I spent 40 years in grad school for film.  Indeed, you stated earlier in your post that you don't even believe that I am an adult, so clearly I could not have spent 40 years in grad school if I'm not an adult.  You make competing, insulting claims which are logically inconsistent under any definition of reality. In other words: you are a liar.  

     

    It's quite interesting that you think that calling someone an "ass" is conversing in a civilized manner.  (Or, telling them to "Grow up.").  Clearly you are an arrogant idiot who is unable to backup your outlandish claims with any facts and so you resort to such pitiful rhetorical tactics.

     

    I'm actually quite surprised that you haven't been banned for calling me an "ass", I thought this forum kept out such foul-mouthed riff-raff in the past.  But I guess the times they are a changing.  

  • Reply 255 of 324
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

     

    Please point me to one. I've searched extensively and have not found any detailed comparisons, and no comparisons at all (other than that one vague sentence from TC) of the pen/pencils.

     

     

    Um okay. I feel bad for anyone who ever had to work with you.

     

     

    I have my doubts that you have, but you know what they say about opinions.

     

    Personally, I've found it to be a fantastic device. I am far from alone. Apple also must think highly of it to imitate it ;-)


     

    You know what desingenious is: well, you are it. Google that too while doing googling for the first thing....

    You're a very special type of troll; 19 posts to get to ignore, a absolute record here, or on any forum. Bye.

  • Reply 256 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    I've never heard a single serious top level artist use the surface pen for their art work. The guys at Disney and Pixar already are lining up to get the pencil.

    Disney / Pixar has to be taken with a grain of salt since they are too close to Apple to be unbiased in many cases.

  • Reply 257 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

     

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I personally know a video editing startup that make extensive use of the Surface Pro 3 for their work. I also know people in the advertising business who do the same. People also use MacBook Pros for this kind of work. No, neither is a replacement for a workstation and you aren't going to run a national TV broadcast from it or anything, but to pretend that is the kind of video editing work the OP was talking about is absurd and I assume disingenuous.

     

    Surface Pros are actually excellent devices for lots of high-end work. Mine was my primary development machine for over a year, with a dock hooked up to a 4K monitor in my office. I've now replaced it with a Surface Book, primarily for the battery life and GPU. It's great at all the things the rMBP 13" is great at, but with better performance, a better display, and a touch screen / tablet mode which it turns out is pretty helpful when you're developing mobile apps. And of course Windows is just a better environment for developers (Apple's iOS development lock-in notwithstanding).


     

    Where do they store all the footage that they use in their work?.... I doubt the internal storage of the Surface Pro or iPad Pro has enough for it.  RAW footage 4K original source footage I expect to be of a size too large to typically edit on such a small platform.  The only production storage I have seen.... they used a Pegasus RAID array to store the new footage (mobile)..... and that does not include the library of footage that many places would have as a source library.  Neither of these devices have thunderbolt or high speed networking that would be needed for using a SAN or any other large storage library (USB 3 is only really useful for backing up not for online use).

  • Reply 258 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post

     

     

    Where do they store all the footage that they use in their work?.... I doubt the internal storage of the Surface Pro or iPad Pro has enough for it.  RAW footage 4K original source footage I expect to be of a size too large to typically edit on such a small platform.  The only production storage I have seen.... they used a Pegasus RAID array to store the new footage (mobile)..... and that does not include the library of footage that many places would have as a source library.  Neither of these devices have thunderbolt or high speed networking that would be needed for using a SAN or any other large storage library (USB 3 is only really useful for backing up not for online use).


    ?

    Not everyone is working with RAW 4K footage. Other than the built-in storage (goes up to 1TB), USB, and SD cards, the Surface Pro does have a gigabit network port on the dock.

  • Reply 259 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by radiospace View Post

     

     

    You appear to have reverted to your last, desperate rhetorical device -- ad hominem.  Not the least bit surprising.

     

     

     

    I never said or implied that I spent 40 years in grad school for film.  Indeed, you stated earlier in your post that you don't even believe that I am an adult, so clearly I could not have spent 40 years in grad school if I'm not an adult.  You make competing, insulting claims which are logically inconsistent under any definition of reality. In other words: you are a liar.  

     

    It's quite interesting that you think that calling someone an "ass" is conversing in a civilized manner.  (Or, telling them to "Grow up.").  Clearly you are an arrogant idiot who is unable to backup your outlandish claims with any facts and so you resort to such pitiful rhetorical tactics.

     

    I'm actually quite surprised that you haven't been banned for calling me an "ass", I thought this forum kept out such foul-mouthed riff-raff in the past.  But I guess the times they are a changing.  


    ?

    You went out of your way to warrant that, which I think anyone reading this thread can clearly see. It is not an ad hominem to respond to childish insults and sarcasm with "grow up". It's simply the only response worth making to your flame bait.

  • Reply 260 of 324
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BrandonLive View Post

     

    ?

    You went out of your way to warrant that, which I think anyone reading this thread can clearly see. It is not an ad hominem to respond to childish insults and sarcasm with "grow up". It's simply the only response worth making to your flame bait.


     

    That's funny, what I can clearly see is that everyone else on this thread recognizes you as a troll, and is responding thusly.

     

    I don't actually think you ever worked next to a video production company using Surfaces by the way.  I think you made all that up, just like you made up the fact that I spent 40 years in grad school, or that I'm not actually a video professional, and probably everything else you have claimed in this thread -- pure lies.  And why not, it's the internet and you're just doing your job as a troll and MS fanboy.

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