Apple hit with second class action lawsuit over Wi-Fi Assist data overages

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  • Reply 41 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tenly View Post





    What makes you so sure that is BS? Some games are over 1GB. Between updating apps, backing up to iCloud and watching NetFlix, it's very possible to use that much data in a single day.... Just because it might not be possible to do the way YOU use your phone - doesn't mean it's not possible at all. You can't be so narrow minded when determining what is and is not possible...



    Possible? Okay. Likely? No. A case of someone's own neglect/negligence about their data use with a source that can now be blamed? Pretty likely.  ... Do you think this user used his phone in that manner for the first time when this issue arose? If he had a weak/lousy/intermittent WiFi now, he most likely has had the issue for a long time. Did he magically think it had resolved itself? Did he think the new data performance/strength in bandwidth flow had dropped out of the sky? Sorry, I will go back to it's BS.

  • Reply 42 of 59
    tenlytenly Posts: 710member
    pmz wrote: »

    I completely agree with this. I think this is a great feature and should be on by default, but it would be more helpful for notify the user even in a subtle way like a little "+" symbol or something next to the WiFi logo, to indicate assist kicking in.

    This feature will never ever ever be used by me, because I know how to properly setup a WiFi network. For most people that don't have a clue, and will sit 2 rooms away from a shitty router with 1 bar of service, it might be beneficial to tell them, "Hey moron, you're at home and using data. Do something about your network."
    Well not everybody is a hermit like you. Often they are at airports, Starbucks, hotels and other businesses that offer Wi-Fi at inconsistent levels of performance....

    This was a really narrow-minded post. Somebody is a moron for trusting that the cable company set up their router properly? Most people don't *need* to know. Setting up a router is not general knowledge. If someone chose not to learn how to configure and manage a home network, it doesn't make them a moron - just like you wouldn't necessarily be a moron for not knowing how to properly execute a call options straddle on the stock market.

    Ease up a little and try being nicer. We get the point you were trying to make - you are awesome and smart and other people are not so they should be bullied. Got it. I don't believe it - I don't agree with it....but I understand that's what you were trying to say....
  • Reply 43 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jordon Schultz View Post





    You're absolutely right. Another consideration would be photo, messaging, email restoration. But it's all BS so we must be full of it.



    Thank you for the support btw, some people can't see beyond their own point of view. Thanks internet.

     

    Logic Jordan. Is this the first time you used your phone in this manner? I doubt it.

     

    BTW, your thanks to the internet? The internet also exposes BS much more effectively/quickly than earlier forms of communication did.

  • Reply 44 of 59
    tommikele wrote: »

    Possible? Okay. Likely? No. A case of someone's own neglect/negligence about their data use with a source that can now be blamed? Pretty likely.  ... Do you think this user used his phone in that manner for the first time when this issue arose? If he had a weak/lousy/intermittent WiFi now, he most likely has had the issue for a long time. Did he magically think it had resolved itself? Did he think the new data performance/strength in bandwidth flow had dropped out of the sky? Sorry, I will go back to it's BS.

    So what else do you think happened over the course of maybe 3 hours with ONLY basic phone use like texts and calls? Besides suggesting I'm just lying to have Apple pay my phone bill (which I am not doing) what else could have been going on to burn through multiple gigs of data? Btw are you at all aware of how large a backup file can be?
  • Reply 45 of 59
    tommikele wrote: »
    Logic Jordan. Is this the first time you used your phone in this manner? I doubt it. So it's either BS or you are a few cards short of a full deck. If my option was one of those two, I'd take BS.

    BTW, your thanks to the internet? The internet also exposes BS much more effectively/quickly than earlier forms of communication did.

    It also allows people to be rude to others without recourse. Behavior like that in real life could potentially end with an ass kicking, which is a good asshole deterrent.
  • Reply 46 of 59
    tenlytenly Posts: 710member
    tommikele wrote: »

    Possible? Okay. Likely? No. A case of someone's own neglect/negligence about their data use with a source that can now be blamed? Pretty likely.  ... Do you think this user used his phone in that manner for the first time when this issue arose? If he had a weak/lousy/intermittent WiFi now, he most likely has had the issue for a long time. Did he magically think it had resolved itself? Did he think the new data performance/strength in bandwidth flow had dropped out of the sky? Sorry, I will go back to it's BS.

    Actually - I didn't realize that he was claiming this happened during a restore..,but now that I see that, I'm amazed that he ONLY used 3.5GB!!! I don't know if he wiped the phone and restored - or if he restored to new hardware - but either way, a restore could require a ton of data to be brought down from the cloud. My camera roll alone is over 45GB and my iMessages total over 11GB - but even if his camera roll was empty, simply bringing down fresh copies of all of his apps could easily add up to far more than 3.5GB. I have a total of 388 apps on my phone. 3 of them: Vainglory (1.1GB), Heroes of Order and Chaos (1.2GB) and Modern Combat (0.97GB) add up to 3.2GB. During a restore, these all have to come from either iTunes on your computer or from the cloud - and so do the other 385 apps!

    I also don't know why you assume that the problem with this users home wi-fi is a chronic problem that has always existed...maybe there was a problem just that day because of some unusual interference - or work being done in his area by the cable company. It could also be Apples algorithm that determines when to switch! They haven't shared details as to what kind of performance levels will trigger a switch. Maybe it's flawed. Maybe his Wi-Fi gives him 20Mbps but his LTE gives him 50Mbps and the iPhone determined that 50Mbps would give him a better experience? I would hope that Apple wouldn't do something that stupid - but the way they've handled everything else related to this feature makes me want to ask for details on the algorithm.

    In any case - all I'm really saying is that 3.5GB is very possible and that perhaps we should wait for some proof that users are morons before assuming that to be the case. There are plenty of users here who really do deserve to be permanently wearing the dunce cap - but I don't see why we should assume this user is one of them. I at least think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and would like to believe that his Wi-Fi normally works adequately for exactly the reason you mentioned - that he's used it many times before this feature existed and has not had crippling performance problems.
    At this point, I'm far more suspicious of the Algorithm than I am of this user doing anything dodgy...
  • Reply 47 of 59
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tenly View Post





    Actually - I didn't realize that he was claiming this happened during a restore..,but now that I see that, I'm amazed that he ONLY used 3.5GB!!! I don't know if he wiped the phone and restored - or if he restored to new hardware - but either way, a restore could require a ton of data to be brought down from the cloud. My camera roll alone is over 45GB and my iMessages total over 11GB - but even if his camera roll was empty, simply bringing down fresh copies of all of his apps could easily add up to far more than 3.5GB. I have a total of 388 apps on my phone. 3 of them: Vainglory (1.1GB), Heroes of Order and Chaos (1.2GB) and Modern Combat (0.97GB) add up to 3.2GB. During a restore, these all have to come from either iTunes on your computer or from the cloud - and so do the other 385 apps!



    I also don't know why you assume that the problem with this users home wi-fi is a chronic problem that has always existed...maybe there was a problem just that day because of some unusual interference - or work being done in his area by the cable company. It could also be Apples algorithm that determines when to switch! They haven't shared details as to what kind of performance levels will trigger a switch. Maybe it's flawed. Maybe his Wi-Fi gives him 20Mbps but his LTE gives him 50Mbps and the iPhone determined that 50Mbps would give him a better experience? I would hope that Apple wouldn't do something that stupid - but the way they've handled everything else related to this feature makes me want to ask for details on the algorithm.



    In any case - all I'm really saying is that 3.5GB is very possible and that perhaps we should wait for some proof that users are morons before assuming that to be the case. There are plenty of users here who really do deserve to be permanently wearing the dunce cap - but I don't see why we should assume this user is one of them. I at least think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and would like to believe that his Wi-Fi normally works adequately for exactly the reason you mentioned - that he's used it many times before this feature existed and has not had crippling performance problems.

    At this point, I'm far more suspicious of the Algorithm than I am of this user doing anything dodgy...

     

    Thank you for the benefit of the doubt, Tenly. It's unfortunate that isn't given so easily by more. It was both a wipe then restore (on an iOS9 beta that was acting weird) and a restore to a new iPhone 6S and each time I burned through multiple gigs of data. Now before someone throws the "moron" word around again, I was most certainly connected to Wifi as you cannot initiate a restore without, but it was at a hotel which can definitely be subject to wild changes in speed. Had I known I was risking a hit against my data allowance I would have made some change but I didn't even consider that possibility and was only alerted to something going wrong because AT&T likes to send you emails/texts once you pass certain high thresholds. Image my surprise when they tell you 90% of your data has been used when just 15 minutes before that you were informed that you have used 60%. This is why it was ONLY a few gigs of data vs something in double digits.

    There will be someone who questions why I let it happen more than once and the answer is I honestly thought it was some sort of anomaly and didn't come to realize it was as a result of the restore until the second time.

     

    To possibly add more credibility to my statements- I am not seeking damages of any kind from Apple even though I had to pay for overages each time this happened. Sometimes things don't go as we would like but this wasn't that big of a deal, I just don't think those who have fallen victim should be berated here by those who automatically assume user error.

  • Reply 48 of 59
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  • Reply 49 of 59
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jordon Schultz View Post





    So what else do you think happened over the course of maybe 3 hours with ONLY basic phone use like texts and calls? Besides suggesting I'm just lying to have Apple pay my phone bill (which I am not doing) what else could have been going on to burn through multiple gigs of data? Btw are you at all aware of how large a backup file can be?



    I turned hotspot on my iPhone to watch a movie on Stan as due to rain my ADSL through shitty copper was running too slow.

     

    Feel asleep and forgot about it, woke up to 5 messages alerting me to data running out and $10 for extra auto adding, used 7GB.

     

    The iPhone goes silent in my radio dock.

     

    My mistake, I won't do it again and won't whine about it.

     

    Two iPads, two iPhones and Macbook backed up to iCloud.

  • Reply 50 of 59
    apple has never hidden how the feature works. nor the fact that you can turn off cell data access for any app you want.

    most of the stories I've heard are people who say that their teen, who is addicted to Netflix, has shitty wifi signal in the bedroom on the far side of the house. so they kind of set up themselves for this issue by not research the new iOS and actually fixing their wifi issues. It's not hard, $99 and 30 minutes gets you an airport express set up to be a bounce to Junior's room etc
  • Reply 51 of 59

    Hi love Apple products and have been using them from the beginning. However, I do kinda hate when they introduce "new" features and leave them on by default. They have done this many times. Then articles are written how users can find it hidden in the menu system and put things back to the way they were, often when they weren't broken to begin with.

     

    Some new features people find useful and want. Many new features often are not used by most. I think Apple has a tendency to cram "new" features at users like everyone will be so thrilled when often, people will want a more safe and gradual change and rather turn features on if they want.

     

    Apple also is slim on providing user manuals for their products because they are supposed to be so intuitive. But often their new features are not very intuitive. 

     

    That being said, I simply wish Apple would take a more safe route, not enable features by default, and be more continences of users wanting controlled gradual change and no surprises. 

     

    I hate lawyers like the next guy, but if my overage charges drastically shot up, I might be pissed off too.

  • Reply 52 of 59
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    charlituna wrote: »
    apple has never hidden how the feature works. nor the fact that you can turn off cell data access for any app you want.

    most of the stories I've heard are people who say that their teen, who is addicted to Netflix, has shitty wifi signal in the bedroom on the far side of the house. so they kind of set up themselves for this issue by not research the new iOS and actually fixing their wifi issues. It's not hard, $99 and 30 minutes gets you an airport express set up to be a bounce to Junior's room etc
    Won't even cost that much to fix your wi-fi dead zone. Covered the far upstairs end of mine with a $40 wifi extender, and there's cheaper ones for as little as $25. My guess is folks just don't realize they're available and figure they just have to accept poor signal areas in their homes.
  • Reply 53 of 59
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    charlituna wrote: »
    apple has never hidden how the feature works. nor the fact that you can turn off cell data access for any app you want.

    most of the stories I've heard are people who say that their teen, who is addicted to Netflix, has shitty wifi signal in the bedroom on the far side of the house. so they kind of set up themselves for this issue by not research the new iOS and actually fixing their wifi issues. It's not hard, $99 and 30 minutes gets you an airport express set up to be a bounce to Junior's room etc
    Won't even cost that much to fix your wi-fi dead zone. Covered the far upstairs end of mine with a $40 wifi extender, and there's cheaper ones for as little as $25. My guess is folks just don't realize they're available and figure they just have to accept poor signal areas in their homes.

    A little trick that works is the positioning the antennas of a router. Most people keep them straight up but the signal travels sideways along the length of the antenna. If you need signal on another floor then position one of the antennas horizontally.
  • Reply 54 of 59
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    A little trick that works is the positioning the antennas of a router. Most people keep them straight up but the signal travels sideways along the length of the antenna. If you need signal on another floor then position one of the antennas horizontally.
    Really? I wasn't aware of that. Thanks!
  • Reply 55 of 59
    tenlytenly Posts: 710member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Won't even cost that much to fix your wi-fi dead zone. Covered the far upstairs end of mine with a $40 wifi extender, and there's cheaper ones for as little as $25. My guess is folks just don't realize they're available and figure they just have to accept poor signal areas in their homes.

    What makes you think that most people are getting into trouble with this feature when at home? Most routers work fine for covering a modern, average sized home no matter where they're positioned. Older homes that use plaster instead of drywall might be an exception - but I've lived in several 2500-3000 square foot homes and a router in he basement has easily covered the entire house with no dead zones.

    I think mode people are getting into trouble with this new feature while away from home. Hotels, the airport, Starbucks, even Apple Stores and AT&T. But especially hotels. It would be even worse for people that choose to configure their device to "connect automatically". Anytime they are within range of somebody's wifi, the phone will try to connect to it - but until they authenticate to the sign-on screen, the wifi won't work so, previously the phone just wouldn't work in these situations, but now it just seamlessly will. I also wouldn't be so sure that our settings for "don't use cell data for these apps" are honoured by this new feature. I'd like to assume they are - but I could see that being yet another oversight in version 1 of this feature.

    Once again, I don't think Apple should be financially liable for people's overages - but I do think that the class action law suit will bring attention to the poor way this feature was implemented and hopefully pressure Apple to fix it sooner rather than later....
  • Reply 56 of 59
    Although I think Apple could have handled this better, legally I think it might fail. Apple doesn't charge for data used, so in my opinion they're the wrong defendant. They have no control over the data charges, so my guess is they're not legally liable. We'll see what happens.
  • Reply 57 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post



    Actually, it really is partly Apple's. I am one of the few remaining AT&T subs who still have the original unlimited data plans. So when I updated and initially saw that notice, I naturally thought it was a fine idea. In October, I went to Spain. I remember to get an international plan with the same data plan I'd used in past travels. On day 2 I was shocked to receive a notice that I'd already used 75% or 80% of my plan. It was then that I remembered that damned data assist thing. I purchased a bigger data plan then went through iOS switching apps off from using data, and of course I nixed the data assist. Now obviously, a good deal of the above situation was my own lapse. But one of the things that killed me was that I was still mostly using my iPhone in places where I had wifi. The wifi must not have been very good and the iPhone started gobbling up my cell-data. But you have no real way of seeing that this is happening. And there's where the problem is. This is a feature that potentially will use your data very rapidly and not give you any sense of how much or how fast.



    Implicit in your post is that you understood how obvious it was that you'd have overages. If it's so obvious that it needs to be turned off, then there is potential liability in creating the feature without better safeguards. Personally, I have enough money to swallow the bitter pill of my lesson. But maybe you should have a little empathy for people who were genuinely caught off guard. 



    I think it would be a nice feature if there was something (like a band across the top of the screen, similar to the green "phone call in background" thing) that changes color to warn you of how much "data assist" you're getting. This was a very clever feature, implemented without the attention to detail that Apple used to be good at.




    If you're WiFi is disconnected from your status bar and you're using data, then it's going to be over the cellular connection. You can also check in Settings to see what apps are using and how much they are using over the cellular connection. It's a great feature that's long overdue, but if you have a shitty route and/or a shitty wireless setup that's not Apple's fault. It's off by default.



    You do know that WiFi status bar icon is wrong way more often than it is right?   When I had the assisted wifi stuff turned on, it never once indicated it was using cellular.  The WiFi icon was there and showing plenty of signal.

     

    I can be sitting outside with my MBP and the MBP says I barely have a connection but my iPhone insists that I have a full strength WiFi signal...  (but the signal as witnessed in the AirPort Extreme's settings is worse than my MBP's)

     

    With no apps available to gauge accurate WiFi signal strength anymore (Apple kicked them all out), how is it these people's fault when their phone gets flakey and doesn't clearly indicate WiFi signal strength is degraded and it is now using cellular?  The WiFi icon stays up yet it is using the cellular data to assist...

  • Reply 58 of 59
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post



    A little trick that works is the positioning the antennas of a router. Most people keep them straight up but the signal travels sideways along the length of the antenna. If you need signal on another floor then position one of the antennas horizontally.


    Really? I wasn't aware of that. Thanks!



    Don't expect miracles with it though!

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_(radio)#Polarization

  • Reply 59 of 59
    For the second time in 4 months - I have exceeded my 10gb limit on a shared plan. Prior to WiFi-assist I was using approx 4-5gb / month... I knew about Wifi-Assist through news stories. I have turned it off on my phones (2 on separate plans) - my GB consumption is 0.5/month. Apple keeps pushing notices to upgrade to my other family users - apparently one has. As for notices that WI-Fi- is an feature you are told about - BULL. You upgrade to iOS9 - it is ON by default. You must go into the settings to shut it off - you are not told.
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