again CLUE LESS. The surface 4/pro have a chip inside it just for pen/touch input and it works really well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jGSOX2-G6M (go to 2:08) its not perfect but its way better than the surface pro 3.
Hope you are getting a nice commission check for pumping Surface merchandise here.
Fine. The Surface Pen is as good as a $30 China Pen. Happy now?
That is because over a few decades we have trained ourselves to be a throwaway society. It really didn't use to be that way and is something we can unlearn.
apple's products are repairable -- just not by users.
so tell me, how often do *you* repair your home audio receiver? your television? I'm going to guess....never ever, and nor will you ever. but nobody is complaining about that, are they?
To the user the only thing that matters is the experience. Pencil has a better experience. That said, they should have included an eraser feature on the end.
says a guy who doesnt illustrate.
the tip of the pencil is more precise than a fat eraser. ever seen a pencil-shaped eraser? they exist, because theyre more precise. just because a pencil w/ eraser on the end is what you used as kid doesnt make it a good solution.
Serenity Caldwell (@settern) at iMore tested/used the two difference stylus solutions in the same video. I would not say "blows away" the competition since that is a very subjective comment, but the Apple pencil is definitely better overall.
She is also doing a series of videos/reviews (day 1 to day 7) of using the iPad Pro as an attempt to see how well it "replaces" a Mac (or PC) solution - which she says is going much better than expected. She was expecting extreme frustration.... which she expected since her work use case is very focused on the Mac.
Sorry, but the Apple Pencil does blow away the Surface pen. In Caldwell's posted examples, the Surface pen completely lacks subtlety and appreciation of craft.
The order of priority is likely set by use cases for the devices in combination volume needed, and volume available etc. The iPad Pro obviously has priority when it comes to pencil and keyboard over iPhone . The faster touch id goes to the phone simply because users press to unlock hundreds of times a day potentially (lock code needed for security, but also payments), while the iPad will likely stay unlocked for hours.... so maybe used a couple times a day.... (I lock my phone with a passcode, but I don't bother on my iPad because it is not that important).
Yep with iPad Pro we may see instances where iPad gets something before iPhone. But prior to Pencil and keyboard is there anything iPad got first? The only thing I can think of is LTE. But I think that was more a case of launch cycle than Apple specifically targeting it for the iPad first.
Sorry, but the Apple Pencil does blow away the Surface pen. In Caldwell's posted examples, the Surface pen completely lacks subtlety and appreciation of craft.
And Serenity Caldwell is a Mac user. So this isn't like a Federico Vicitti who is iPad biased. She was expecting to not really like this device and she loves it. Even Marco Arment, who has no trouble being criticle of Apple, said the Pencil was amazing. I think this is one of the most impressive pieces of technology Apple has released in a long time. What impresses me most is, as far as we know, it's tech developed in-house, not something Apple bought like Microsoft did with nTrig.
And Serenity Caldwell is a Mac user. So this isn't like a Federico Vicitti who is iPad biased. She was expecting to not really like this device and she loves it. Even Marco Arment, who has no trouble being criticle of Apple, said the Pencil was amazing. I think this is one of the most impressive pieces of technology Apple has released in a long time. What impresses me most is, as far as we know, it's tech developed in-house, not something Apple bought like Microsoft did with nTrig.
A little correction Serenity Caldwell is primarily a Mac user - in that I believe she has mentioned she owns an iPad. She indicated she was very interested and excited by the new iPad for it's artistic capabilities such as sketching. Her articles about using the iPad Pro as a replacement for the Mac. It is this use case that she expected to be extremely frustrated since her experience was that the iPad could not really fulfill her primary (important use cases). She has indicated that (so far) she has been pleasantly surprised because her expectations of these frustrations have not really been born out and she was for the most part able to use the iPad Pro for more. At the end of the 7 days I expect her to go back to using the Mac more for her use cases -- with the exceptions of the "artist" things like sketching and using stuff to turn it into a Wacom style tablet for the Mac. The end result is that if her experience is that I expect the iPad Pro can serve as a primary device for a wider range of people than previous models.... but it does not mean that it is a replacement for a computer for everyone.... It is widening the iPad base.
I am excited by the new iPad Pro but my use cases are still better served by my (now aging 2008 Mac Pro; 2 x ATI 5770 cards; 10GB memory).... I could not see myself hunched over an iPad of any type for 12 hours a day (I have 4 monitors - ranging from 24" to 40") - but I like the idea of integrating it into my desktop and having the ability to take it with me the odd time I need something portable.... The worst experience I had was using an iPad for Remote Desktop access to a Windows 7 machine -- what should have taken 30 minutes ended up taking 5 hours - mostly do to poor choices in how to translate touch to a mouse/desktop type experience.
... they should have included an eraser feature on the end.
I say the following only somewhat tongue-in-cheek:
Apple could sell an eraser accessory (for $19.99): an alternate end-cap that acts as an eraser and uses the underlying Lightning port to communicate its eraser function to the rest of the electronics.
I agree with others (above) that a thick eraser isn't appropriate for many graphic artists... but there are other casual users/artists who would be willing to pay a small amount for something that mimics a traditional eraser.
I agree with others (above) that a thick eraser isn't appropriate for many graphic artists... but there are other casual users/artists who would be willing to pay a small amount for something that mimics a traditional eraser.
It has been 30 years since I have done anything really artistic with a pencil, but even back then .... even if the pencil had an eraser it would remain unused because the pencil at the end was typically lower quality and the "white" eraser was better for erasing. Of course for more accurate erasing there were "pencil type" erasers..... When did the eraser at the end of the pencil become such an important feature that it actually got used? and thus should be simulated electronically.....
Also did i say surface stylus was superior? No, I said your comment comparing that surface pen to a $20 china pen was bull
Quote:
Editor Serenity Caldwell found the Surface Pen to be "about as responsive" as the Apple Pencil, but said Microsoft's stylus pressure was slightly harder to control and had more trouble at writing small type.
What she just described there would be a very very big annoyance if I were using a device for that purpose primarily. Things that are a "small" annoyance for a few minutes are very major annoyances when you spend hours dealing with those annoyances or trying to compensate. The responsiveness was "latency" the pressure sensitivity, clicking, etc was talked about as a separate issue.... and that difference was significant.
The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.
As an electronic product designer/manufacturer, the best way to be environmentally responsible is to ensure your electronics are designed to last as long as possible (using the best quality components and build quality) and be easily recycled. Both of which Apple does better than most competitors.
If your products need to be repaired frequently because of poor build quality, the vast majority of people are just going to throw them away because the cost of repairing them is generally more expensive than getting a new one. Sure there are a few DIYers who are willing to spend time learning how to and repairing things to keep them going, but these people are very much the minority. The unfortunate reality of electronics becoming so cheap is that they have become throwaway items.
What she just described there would be a very very big annoyance if I were using a device for that purpose primarily. Things that are a "small" annoyance for a few minutes are very major annoyances when you spend hours dealing with those annoyances or trying to compensate. The responsiveness was "latency" the pressure sensitivity, clicking, etc was talked about as a separate issue.... and that difference was significant.
And That's fine and might bother you if your an artist, but if your a note taker you can care less about stylus pressure. Also they said writing in One note was fine, it was other apps that seemed to have some "issues" just like the apple pencil with some apps there are issues.
?Over all sounds like the are comparable with the pencil being over all better. But the surface pro definitely is not = to a $20 china stylus
Have to add, People who use photoshop and want one device, surface pro is going to probably be better option for most of them (until adobe comes out with better PRO iPad apps)
It has been 30 years since I have done anything really artistic with a pencil, but even back then .... even if the pencil had an eraser it would remain unused because the pencil at the end was typically lower quality and the "white" eraser was better for erasing. Of course for more accurate erasing there were "pencil type" erasers..... When did the eraser at the end of the pencil become such an important feature that it actually got used? and thus should be simulated electronically.....
Totally missing the point.
Seriously, does no one use the eraser end on their Wacom pens as often as I do? It's not pinpoint precise like the tip end, but it's also far superior to the actual eraser that inspired it. The Wacom styli essentially have TWO pressure sensitive ends to work with where the Apple Pencil has only one. The eraser end on Wacom's styli are for erasing OR marking, and controls precise tools just fine (if you don't mind the large plastic part). It's however you configure it to be.
The analogue is pencil to stylus. That doesn't mean the tip or eraser ends of an electronic stylus have to behave with the same limitations as the objects that inspired them.
And That's fine and might bother you if your an artist, but if your a note taker you can care less about stylus pressure. Also they said writing in One note was fine, it was other apps that seemed to have some "issues" just like the apple pencil with some apps there are issues.
?Over all sounds like the are comparable with the pencil being over all better. But the surface pro definitely is not = to a $20 china stylus
Have to add, People who use photoshop and want one device, surface pro is going to probably be better option for most of them (until adobe comes out with better PRO iPad apps)
Stylus pressure will affect the quality of the writing - which is most noticeable when you get down to smaller lettering. When you write normally pressure changes -- if you don't use that information then the quality of the writing will not match aesthetically to what we have become accustomed. It affects the readability of what you are writing.
I believe (I have not written anything for the iPad Pro) that built in developer libraries have been updated for the new technology. Remember the stylus was sort of a hack for earlier iPads -- and thus any apps that were written for 3rd party stylus are not necessarily going to be very great. I don't expect it to take long for all apps to use the appropriate built in support to use the information being passed by the pencils sensors etc.
This is why the testers are typically picking applications to use to test functionality that support the associate devices in each of the two machines (iPad Pro, or Surface).
But I think I've run across an ideal app for the iPad Pro: Trimble's SketchUp.
It is a very comprehensive 3D design app for architects, construction, engineering, urban planning, woodworking, 3D printing. kitchen, bath & interior design, landscape architecture, commercial interiors, game design, film and stage, education ...
It currently runs on Mac and Windows.
Have a look at a tutorial and imagine this running on an iPad Pro with pencil.
Stylus pressure will affect the quality of the writing - which is most noticeable when you get down to smaller lettering. When you write normally pressure changes -- if you don't use that information then the quality of the writing will not match aesthetically to what we have become accustomed. It affects the readability of what you are writing.
I believe (I have not written anything for the iPad Pro) that built in developer libraries have been updated for the new technology. Remember the stylus was sort of a hack for earlier iPads -- and thus any apps that were written for 3rd party stylus are not necessarily going to be very great. I don't expect it to take long for all apps to use the appropriate built in support to use the information being passed by the pencils sensors etc.
This is why the testers are typically picking applications to use to test functionality that support the associate devices in each of the two machines (iPad Pro, or Surface).
As I said, the issues were with a non Microsoft app which obviously was not coded as good to work with the surface stylus. Does not look like people are reporting the pressure issue with OneNote. Again people who need full production apps that use the stylus are most likely going find the surface pro a better device. The surface pro stylus looks to be "good enough". People who own a mac, and or iPad, will probably find the iPad pro with pencil (and maybe astro pad) the better device
As I said, the issues were with a non Microsoft app which obviously was not coded as good to work with the surface stylus. Does not look like people are reporting the pressure issue with OneNote. Again people who need full production apps that use the stylus are most likely going find the surface pro a better device. The surface pro stylus looks to be "good enough". People who own a mac, and or iPad, will probably find the iPad pro with pencil (and maybe astro pad) the better device
Maybe they are not reporting the issues with OneNote because they have accepted the limitations... The Serenity iPad Pro / Surface Pro 4 comparison where she complained about the pressure sensitivity and problems with small lettering.... was Fresh Paint.... a Microsoft app.....
Comments
Who's the one posting Amazon links?
apple's products are repairable -- just not by users.
so tell me, how often do *you* repair your home audio receiver? your television? I'm going to guess....never ever, and nor will you ever. but nobody is complaining about that, are they?
says a guy who doesnt illustrate.
the tip of the pencil is more precise than a fat eraser. ever seen a pencil-shaped eraser? they exist, because theyre more precise. just because a pencil w/ eraser on the end is what you used as kid doesnt make it a good solution.
Sorry, but the Apple Pencil does blow away the Surface pen. In Caldwell's posted examples, the Surface pen completely lacks subtlety and appreciation of craft.
Yep with iPad Pro we may see instances where iPad gets something before iPhone. But prior to Pencil and keyboard is there anything iPad got first? The only thing I can think of is LTE. But I think that was more a case of launch cycle than Apple specifically targeting it for the iPad first.
And Serenity Caldwell is a Mac user. So this isn't like a Federico Vicitti who is iPad biased. She was expecting to not really like this device and she loves it. Even Marco Arment, who has no trouble being criticle of Apple, said the Pencil was amazing. I think this is one of the most impressive pieces of technology Apple has released in a long time. What impresses me most is, as far as we know, it's tech developed in-house, not something Apple bought like Microsoft did with nTrig.
Hope you are getting a nice commission check for pumping Surface merchandise here.
Fine. The Surface Pen is as good as a $30 China Pen. Happy now?
I guess Macrumors must be too:
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/19/ipad-pro-apple-pencil-vs-surface-pen/
Wonder how much MS must of paid them
Also did i say surface stylus was superior? No, I said your comment comparing that surface pen to a $20 china pen was bull
And Serenity Caldwell is a Mac user. So this isn't like a Federico Vicitti who is iPad biased. She was expecting to not really like this device and she loves it. Even Marco Arment, who has no trouble being criticle of Apple, said the Pencil was amazing. I think this is one of the most impressive pieces of technology Apple has released in a long time. What impresses me most is, as far as we know, it's tech developed in-house, not something Apple bought like Microsoft did with nTrig.
A little correction Serenity Caldwell is primarily a Mac user - in that I believe she has mentioned she owns an iPad. She indicated she was very interested and excited by the new iPad for it's artistic capabilities such as sketching. Her articles about using the iPad Pro as a replacement for the Mac. It is this use case that she expected to be extremely frustrated since her experience was that the iPad could not really fulfill her primary (important use cases). She has indicated that (so far) she has been pleasantly surprised because her expectations of these frustrations have not really been born out and she was for the most part able to use the iPad Pro for more. At the end of the 7 days I expect her to go back to using the Mac more for her use cases -- with the exceptions of the "artist" things like sketching and using stuff to turn it into a Wacom style tablet for the Mac. The end result is that if her experience is that I expect the iPad Pro can serve as a primary device for a wider range of people than previous models.... but it does not mean that it is a replacement for a computer for everyone.... It is widening the iPad base.
I am excited by the new iPad Pro but my use cases are still better served by my (now aging 2008 Mac Pro; 2 x ATI 5770 cards; 10GB memory).... I could not see myself hunched over an iPad of any type for 12 hours a day (I have 4 monitors - ranging from 24" to 40") - but I like the idea of integrating it into my desktop and having the ability to take it with me the odd time I need something portable.... The worst experience I had was using an iPad for Remote Desktop access to a Windows 7 machine -- what should have taken 30 minutes ended up taking 5 hours - mostly do to poor choices in how to translate touch to a mouse/desktop type experience.
... they should have included an eraser feature on the end.
I say the following only somewhat tongue-in-cheek:
Apple could sell an eraser accessory (for $19.99): an alternate end-cap that acts as an eraser and uses the underlying Lightning port to communicate its eraser function to the rest of the electronics.
I agree with others (above) that a thick eraser isn't appropriate for many graphic artists... but there are other casual users/artists who would be willing to pay a small amount for something that mimics a traditional eraser.
I agree with others (above) that a thick eraser isn't appropriate for many graphic artists... but there are other casual users/artists who would be willing to pay a small amount for something that mimics a traditional eraser.
It has been 30 years since I have done anything really artistic with a pencil, but even back then .... even if the pencil had an eraser it would remain unused because the pencil at the end was typically lower quality and the "white" eraser was better for erasing. Of course for more accurate erasing there were "pencil type" erasers..... When did the eraser at the end of the pencil become such an important feature that it actually got used? and thus should be simulated electronically.....
I guess Macrumors must be too:
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/19/ipad-pro-apple-pencil-vs-surface-pen/
Wonder how much MS must of paid them
Also did i say surface stylus was superior? No, I said your comment comparing that surface pen to a $20 china pen was bull
What she just described there would be a very very big annoyance if I were using a device for that purpose primarily. Things that are a "small" annoyance for a few minutes are very major annoyances when you spend hours dealing with those annoyances or trying to compensate. The responsiveness was "latency" the pressure sensitivity, clicking, etc was talked about as a separate issue.... and that difference was significant.
The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.
As an electronic product designer/manufacturer, the best way to be environmentally responsible is to ensure your electronics are designed to last as long as possible (using the best quality components and build quality) and be easily recycled. Both of which Apple does better than most competitors.
If your products need to be repaired frequently because of poor build quality, the vast majority of people are just going to throw them away because the cost of repairing them is generally more expensive than getting a new one. Sure there are a few DIYers who are willing to spend time learning how to and repairing things to keep them going, but these people are very much the minority. The unfortunate reality of electronics becoming so cheap is that they have become throwaway items.
What she just described there would be a very very big annoyance if I were using a device for that purpose primarily. Things that are a "small" annoyance for a few minutes are very major annoyances when you spend hours dealing with those annoyances or trying to compensate. The responsiveness was "latency" the pressure sensitivity, clicking, etc was talked about as a separate issue.... and that difference was significant.
And That's fine and might bother you if your an artist, but if your a note taker you can care less about stylus pressure. Also they said writing in One note was fine, it was other apps that seemed to have some "issues" just like the apple pencil with some apps there are issues.
?Over all sounds like the are comparable with the pencil being over all better. But the surface pro definitely is not = to a $20 china stylus
Have to add, People who use photoshop and want one device, surface pro is going to probably be better option for most of them (until adobe comes out with better PRO iPad apps)
Totally missing the point.
Seriously, does no one use the eraser end on their Wacom pens as often as I do? It's not pinpoint precise like the tip end, but it's also far superior to the actual eraser that inspired it. The Wacom styli essentially have TWO pressure sensitive ends to work with where the Apple Pencil has only one. The eraser end on Wacom's styli are for erasing OR marking, and controls precise tools just fine (if you don't mind the large plastic part). It's however you configure it to be.
The analogue is pencil to stylus. That doesn't mean the tip or eraser ends of an electronic stylus have to behave with the same limitations as the objects that inspired them.
And That's fine and might bother you if your an artist, but if your a note taker you can care less about stylus pressure. Also they said writing in One note was fine, it was other apps that seemed to have some "issues" just like the apple pencil with some apps there are issues.
?Over all sounds like the are comparable with the pencil being over all better. But the surface pro definitely is not = to a $20 china stylus
Have to add, People who use photoshop and want one device, surface pro is going to probably be better option for most of them (until adobe comes out with better PRO iPad apps)
Stylus pressure will affect the quality of the writing - which is most noticeable when you get down to smaller lettering. When you write normally pressure changes -- if you don't use that information then the quality of the writing will not match aesthetically to what we have become accustomed. It affects the readability of what you are writing.
I believe (I have not written anything for the iPad Pro) that built in developer libraries have been updated for the new technology. Remember the stylus was sort of a hack for earlier iPads -- and thus any apps that were written for 3rd party stylus are not necessarily going to be very great. I don't expect it to take long for all apps to use the appropriate built in support to use the information being passed by the pencils sensors etc.
This is why the testers are typically picking applications to use to test functionality that support the associate devices in each of the two machines (iPad Pro, or Surface).
But I think I've run across an ideal app for the iPad Pro: Trimble's SketchUp.
It is a very comprehensive 3D design app for architects, construction, engineering, urban planning, woodworking, 3D printing. kitchen, bath & interior design, landscape architecture, commercial interiors, game design, film and stage, education ...
It currently runs on Mac and Windows.
Have a look at a tutorial and imagine this running on an iPad Pro with pencil.
[VIDEO]
Stylus pressure will affect the quality of the writing - which is most noticeable when you get down to smaller lettering. When you write normally pressure changes -- if you don't use that information then the quality of the writing will not match aesthetically to what we have become accustomed. It affects the readability of what you are writing.
I believe (I have not written anything for the iPad Pro) that built in developer libraries have been updated for the new technology. Remember the stylus was sort of a hack for earlier iPads -- and thus any apps that were written for 3rd party stylus are not necessarily going to be very great. I don't expect it to take long for all apps to use the appropriate built in support to use the information being passed by the pencils sensors etc.
This is why the testers are typically picking applications to use to test functionality that support the associate devices in each of the two machines (iPad Pro, or Surface).
As I said, the issues were with a non Microsoft app which obviously was not coded as good to work with the surface stylus. Does not look like people are reporting the pressure issue with OneNote. Again people who need full production apps that use the stylus are most likely going find the surface pro a better device. The surface pro stylus looks to be "good enough". People who own a mac, and or iPad, will probably find the iPad pro with pencil (and maybe astro pad) the better device
UMake for iPad Pro.
As I said, the issues were with a non Microsoft app which obviously was not coded as good to work with the surface stylus. Does not look like people are reporting the pressure issue with OneNote. Again people who need full production apps that use the stylus are most likely going find the surface pro a better device. The surface pro stylus looks to be "good enough". People who own a mac, and or iPad, will probably find the iPad pro with pencil (and maybe astro pad) the better device
Maybe they are not reporting the issues with OneNote because they have accepted the limitations... The Serenity iPad Pro / Surface Pro 4 comparison where she complained about the pressure sensitivity and problems with small lettering.... was Fresh Paint.... a Microsoft app.....
It's so ugly inside. Jony Ive really blew it this time.
heh...