palm rejection works everywhere? - that's just not true - whomever wrote this - how were you able to test all apps? Native Notes, and Notability are probably the best I've tested so far - looking for Microsoft OneNote to join the the ranks, but not so far. I don't think I'm alone to say this is rather confusing and Apple needs to clarify if their pen is really anything differnt than Pencil 53 except for the way it pairs; my preliminary testing says yes, it is different, but it's difficult to determine how - do developers need to update their software to take advantage of the API's for the pencil to truly have palm rejection or not? For those looking for a Surface/Galaxy Note replacement (I am), it is not there yet - the question is, can rewrites of the software achieve it with the new accessory?
A dedicated eraser end seems... quaint. Backward-thinking. The ultimate in skeumorphicity.
[edit: spelling]
And what is this? Why does Apple even offer an analogue watch face? Much less one with skeuomorphic features? What is the purpose of the "tail" depicted on the second hand for instance?
Skeuomorphism has it's place. People intuitively know what to do with a product that mimics what it looks like. For someone who's never used a digital drawing device like the Pencil, they would instinctively know that turning it over might erase.
But I agree with you too. I don't find an eraser on the end particularly useful in this instance, and would slow down serious productivity. I also don't know how many people still use pencils and erasers anyway for this particular skeuomorphic holdover to have substantial meaning. For me, it also seems quaint. But it also seems like one of those touches that sets Apple apart, and if they had done it, we'd all be debating how stupid and useless it is.
Rene Ritchie (who has an art degree) tweeted that really good professional pencils do not have erasers on the end of them and the ones that do are crap. I'm not an artist so I wouldn't know but I did some searching and sure enough most expensive pencils do not have erasers. Of course that doesn't mean the Apple Pencil couldn't have one but perhaps that's the frame of reference the Pencil designers came from. Whenever I see a Surface Pro 4 pen it doesn't remind me of a drawing tool it reminds of a cheap Bic pencil.
palm rejection works everywhere? - that's just not true - whomever wrote this - how were you able to test all apps?
Native Notes, and Notability are probably the best I've tested so far - looking for Microsoft OneNote to join the the ranks, but not so far. I don't think I'm alone to say this is rather confusing and Apple needs to clarify if their pen is really anything differnt than Pencil 53 except for the way it pairs; my preliminary testing says yes, it is different, but it's difficult to determine how - do developers need to update their software to take advantage of the API's for the pencil to truly have palm rejection or not?
For those looking for a Surface/Galaxy Note replacement (I am), it is not there yet - the question is, can rewrites of the software achieve it with the new accessory?
My understanding is there are developer APIs for the Pencil so developers need to update their apps for the best experience.
It shows the use of finger touch in combination with Pencil touch to create a 3D drawing -- which is then broken down further into component parts ...
Unfortunately, I have zero drawing ability -- so I want to use a CAD app to create the component parts and combine them into a 3D rendering ala AutoCad, Blender, etc.
The best/easiest one I have found is for the Mac or Windows. It is called SketchUp Pro and cost $700. It has a free version called SketchUp Make.
They have a SketchUp Viewer app for the current iPad.
IDK if there is enough RAM in the iPad Pro to allow a full implementation of the OS X OpenGL app on iOS9 Metal.
Here's an intro to the OS X app.
[VIDEO]
I am primarily interested in using SketchUp for woodworking ... my grandson for architecture (there are some similarities to the game Minecraft which he used to play a lot).
You can search YT for other SketchUp videos, if interested.
palm rejection works everywhere? - that's just not true - whomever wrote this - how were you able to test all apps?
Native Notes, and Notability are probably the best I've tested so far - looking for Microsoft OneNote to join the the ranks, but not so far. I don't think I'm alone to say this is rather confusing and Apple needs to clarify if their pen is really anything differnt than Pencil 53 except for the way it pairs; my preliminary testing says yes, it is different, but it's difficult to determine how - do developers need to update their software to take advantage of the API's for the pencil to truly have palm rejection or not?
For those looking for a Surface/Galaxy Note replacement (I am), it is not there yet - the question is, can rewrites of the software achieve it with the new accessory?
As you can see in one of the images, palm rejection is working fine in the official AppleInsider app, even though it is not designed for Pencil or even scaled up yet for the iPad Pro. Palm rejection also works fine in plenty of apps when you're selecting items or scrolling, like Safari or Facebook or Twitter. If there's an app where palm rejection doesn't work properly, maybe that app is doing something outside of the norm.
It shows the use of finger touch in combination with Pencil touch to create a 3D drawing -- which is then broken down further into component parts ...
Unfortunately, I have zero drawing ability -- so I want to use a CAD app to create the component parts and combine them into a 3D rendering ala AutoCad, Blender, etc.
The best/easiest one I have found is for the Mac or Windows. It is called SketchUp Pro and cost $700. It has a free version called SketchUp Make.
They have a SketchUp Viewer app for the current iPad.
IDK if there is enough RAM in the iPad Pro to allow a full implementation of the OS X OpenGL app on iOS9 Metal.
Here's an intro to the OS X app.
I am primarily interested in using SketchUp for woodworking ... my grandson for architecture (there are some similarities to the game Minecraft which he used to play a lot).
You can search YT for other SketchUp videos, if interested.
It looks like the iPad Pro will become an alternate platform for CAD, be it browser, App and Cloud, or fully offline as an APP. The pencil would seem to be a natural for CAD, and as most CAD is built around floating point data, the Pen would be a bit overkill as pens go, but a nice addition.
I have to believe the AutoDesk Fusion 360 will arrive fairly soon on the iPad Pro, and another, Onshape, has already committed to the iPad Pro.
These are quite comparable in capabilities to existing MCAD systems like SolidWorks, Inventor, and PTC Creo, but likely lacking some of the productivity features.
It could be possible that the Pencil doesn't do the gestures from the edge because it overlaps with its ability to draw close to the edges. In other words, the way it reads that your finger is coming from the edge (80% sure) is by reading a tiny half blotch reading from someone's finger rather than a "full blotch". The pencil tip would register that way all the time right? Even when you are just trying to do a little shading near the edge of the screen.
If I'm right about that it is a technical reason. Much better to make someone use their finger tip (easy even while holding pencil) do gestures rather than get accidental gesture actions just by drawing near the edge.
Makes logical sense to me at least.
Itching to get my hands on this pencil. I've had it ordered since minutes into the time it was possible.
It shows the use of finger touch in combination with Pencil touch to create a 3D drawing -- which is then broken down further into component parts ...
Unfortunately, I have zero drawing ability -- so I want to use a CAD app to create the component parts and combine them into a 3D rendering ala AutoCad, Blender, etc.
The best/easiest one I have found is for the Mac or Windows. It is called SketchUp Pro and cost $700. It has a free version called SketchUp Make.
They have a SketchUp Viewer app for the current iPad.
IDK if there is enough RAM in the iPad Pro to allow a full implementation of the OS X OpenGL app on iOS9 Metal.
Here's an intro to the OS X app.
It looks like the iPad Pro will become an alternate platform for CAD, be it browser, App and Cloud, or fully offline as an APP. The pencil would seem to be a natural for CAD, and as most CAD is built around floating point data, the Pen would be a bit overkill as pens go, but a nice addition.
I have to believe the AutoDesk Fusion 360 will arrive fairly soon on the iPad Pro, and another, Onshape, has already committed to the iPad Pro.
These are quite comparable in capabilities to existing MCAD systems like SolidWorks, Inventor, and PTC Creo, but likely lacking some of the productivity features.
Skeuomorphism has it's place. People intuitively know what to do with a product that mimics what it looks like.
I nodded my head in agreement with your points, but my brain shoved ahead with the following anyway:
What makes both of these skeurmorphic scenarios (analog watch face, eraser-tipped pencil) intuitive? These are *learned* processes, often from very young childhood. And at that age, who convinced us this was the best way? And why was that so?
Stating the obvious, because there wasn't anything better. In the eraser use case... now there is.
It seems like some are having trouble with the eraser's paradigm shift. That's their problem, not Apple's.
To overcome the slick feel of plastic-on-glass, I wonder if someone will sell an overlay film (like a screen protector) with a little "tooth" (texture) that will make the Pencil feel like it is really stroking a piece of paper. It's an accessory opportunity!
It's interesting to see all the negative comments regarding the lack of an "erasure" on the Apple Pencil. I started using mechanical pencils back in high school 50+ years ago and I haven't used a regular wooden pencil in over a decade. Back when I did use pencils, I also used a separate erasure as the one that was on the pencil would usually smudge more than it would erase. And I often wondered "where did I put that damn erasure?"
My introduction to personal computers included MacPaint and learned to use the mouse to click on the "erasure" and proceed from there. So I have had nearly 30 years of experience with that paradigm. Now, the Apple Pencil doesn't require me to "give up" anything or learn anything new.
I have been playing with the Apple Pencil which I purchased with the iPad Pro and Logitech Create keyboard on the day of introduction. I like the new Notes app for casual drawing/sketching/writing/doodling. And I can see/modify notes on my desktop as well. I have been surprised how responsive both the Pencil and iPad is. The whole idea for me was to use the iPad Pro as a laptop when I am away from home since I switched to a 27-inch iMac 5 years ago. I just have to have a big, calibrated screen for post-processing photos. The iPad Pro combination I have now allows me to accomplish 90% of what I could with the a standard laptop. Plus, I can use GPS when I am "on the road" to figure out exactly where I am.
I have atrocious handwriting and I filled out a lengthy document with it yesterday. The best compliment I can give the Pencil is it perfectly replicated my atrocious handwriting with no issues.
Palm rejection that 'just works' must be the deal maker.
Saw my first Pro 'in the flesh' yesterday and to use a much hackneyed expression, was shocked at its size. Pencils have long been my friends, looking forward to experiencing Apple's pencil and iPad Pro (currently a first gen user).
To overcome the slick feel of plastic-on-glass, I wonder if someone will sell an overlay film (like a screen protector) with a little "tooth" (texture) that will make the Pencil feel like it is really stroking a piece of paper. It's an accessory opportunity!
Getting that just right would be an interesting achievement. Lifetime of the tip would be reduced (I'd guess).
The lack of an eraser is a glaring oversight. I've seen many artist on video already yearn for this ability. I'm surprised Ive didn't include it, it's so clearly a good idea. Especially not the likes of note taking apps.
Without arguing for or against an eraser end cap, it strikes me that the lightning connector could have provided power and communications with an active cap. I'd also like to be able to tap the pen on an end cap absent mindedly a few times (as I do with a real pencil, active end cap not necessary though) and have Siri come up and ask, "penny for your thoughts?" " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> (Okay, I should get out more often.)
Edit: have read more of the thread now and note similar comments.
Comments
Native Notes, and Notability are probably the best I've tested so far - looking for Microsoft OneNote to join the the ranks, but not so far. I don't think I'm alone to say this is rather confusing and Apple needs to clarify if their pen is really anything differnt than Pencil 53 except for the way it pairs; my preliminary testing says yes, it is different, but it's difficult to determine how - do developers need to update their software to take advantage of the API's for the pencil to truly have palm rejection or not?
For those looking for a Surface/Galaxy Note replacement (I am), it is not there yet - the question is, can rewrites of the software achieve it with the new accessory?
A dedicated eraser end seems... quaint. Backward-thinking. The ultimate in skeumorphicity.
[edit: spelling]
And what is this? Why does Apple even offer an analogue watch face? Much less one with skeuomorphic features? What is the purpose of the "tail" depicted on the second hand for instance?
Skeuomorphism has it's place. People intuitively know what to do with a product that mimics what it looks like. For someone who's never used a digital drawing device like the Pencil, they would instinctively know that turning it over might erase.
But I agree with you too. I don't find an eraser on the end particularly useful in this instance, and would slow down serious productivity. I also don't know how many people still use pencils and erasers anyway for this particular skeuomorphic holdover to have substantial meaning. For me, it also seems quaint. But it also seems like one of those touches that sets Apple apart, and if they had done it, we'd all be debating how stupid and useless it is.
My understanding is there are developer APIs for the Pencil so developers need to update their apps for the best experience.
Also not something that typically exists on expensive professional pencils.
Yes! Nice video, thanks for the link.
It shows the use of finger touch in combination with Pencil touch to create a 3D drawing -- which is then broken down further into component parts ...
Unfortunately, I have zero drawing ability -- so I want to use a CAD app to create the component parts and combine them into a 3D rendering ala AutoCad, Blender, etc.
The best/easiest one I have found is for the Mac or Windows. It is called SketchUp Pro and cost $700. It has a free version called SketchUp Make.
They have a SketchUp Viewer app for the current iPad.
IDK if there is enough RAM in the iPad Pro to allow a full implementation of the OS X OpenGL app on iOS9 Metal.
Here's an intro to the OS X app.
[VIDEO]
I am primarily interested in using SketchUp for woodworking ... my grandson for architecture (there are some similarities to the game Minecraft which he used to play a lot).
You can search YT for other SketchUp videos, if interested.
[VIDEO]
Especially notice the comments at the end!
As you can see in one of the images, palm rejection is working fine in the official AppleInsider app, even though it is not designed for Pencil or even scaled up yet for the iPad Pro. Palm rejection also works fine in plenty of apps when you're selecting items or scrolling, like Safari or Facebook or Twitter. If there's an app where palm rejection doesn't work properly, maybe that app is doing something outside of the norm.
Yes! Nice video, thanks for the link.
It shows the use of finger touch in combination with Pencil touch to create a 3D drawing -- which is then broken down further into component parts ...
Unfortunately, I have zero drawing ability -- so I want to use a CAD app to create the component parts and combine them into a 3D rendering ala AutoCad, Blender, etc.
The best/easiest one I have found is for the Mac or Windows. It is called SketchUp Pro and cost $700. It has a free version called SketchUp Make.
They have a SketchUp Viewer app for the current iPad.
IDK if there is enough RAM in the iPad Pro to allow a full implementation of the OS X OpenGL app on iOS9 Metal.
Here's an intro to the OS X app.
I am primarily interested in using SketchUp for woodworking ... my grandson for architecture (there are some similarities to the game Minecraft which he used to play a lot).
You can search YT for other SketchUp videos, if interested.
It looks like the iPad Pro will become an alternate platform for CAD, be it browser, App and Cloud, or fully offline as an APP. The pencil would seem to be a natural for CAD, and as most CAD is built around floating point data, the Pen would be a bit overkill as pens go, but a nice addition.
I have to believe the AutoDesk Fusion 360 will arrive fairly soon on the iPad Pro, and another, Onshape, has already committed to the iPad Pro.
These are quite comparable in capabilities to existing MCAD systems like SolidWorks, Inventor, and PTC Creo, but likely lacking some of the productivity features.
https://www.onshape.com
Just a technical note:
It could be possible that the Pencil doesn't do the gestures from the edge because it overlaps with its ability to draw close to the edges. In other words, the way it reads that your finger is coming from the edge (80% sure) is by reading a tiny half blotch reading from someone's finger rather than a "full blotch". The pencil tip would register that way all the time right? Even when you are just trying to do a little shading near the edge of the screen.
If I'm right about that it is a technical reason. Much better to make someone use their finger tip (easy even while holding pencil) do gestures rather than get accidental gesture actions just by drawing near the edge.
Makes logical sense to me at least.
Itching to get my hands on this pencil. I've had it ordered since minutes into the time it was possible.
Wow! Thanks for the links ....
Looks like I have some new toys to play with tomorrow!
Skeuomorphism has it's place. People intuitively know what to do with a product that mimics what it looks like.
I nodded my head in agreement with your points, but my brain shoved ahead with the following anyway:
What makes both of these skeurmorphic scenarios (analog watch face, eraser-tipped pencil) intuitive? These are *learned* processes, often from very young childhood. And at that age, who convinced us this was the best way? And why was that so?
Stating the obvious, because there wasn't anything better. In the eraser use case... now there is.
It seems like some are having trouble with the eraser's paradigm shift. That's their problem, not Apple's.
[edit: minor syntax improvement]
To overcome the slick feel of plastic-on-glass, I wonder if someone will sell an overlay film (like a screen protector) with a little "tooth" (texture) that will make the Pencil feel like it is really stroking a piece of paper. It's an accessory opportunity!
It's interesting to see all the negative comments regarding the lack of an "erasure" on the Apple Pencil. I started using mechanical pencils back in high school 50+ years ago and I haven't used a regular wooden pencil in over a decade. Back when I did use pencils, I also used a separate erasure as the one that was on the pencil would usually smudge more than it would erase. And I often wondered "where did I put that damn erasure?"
My introduction to personal computers included MacPaint and learned to use the mouse to click on the "erasure" and proceed from there. So I have had nearly 30 years of experience with that paradigm. Now, the Apple Pencil doesn't require me to "give up" anything or learn anything new.
I have been playing with the Apple Pencil which I purchased with the iPad Pro and Logitech Create keyboard on the day of introduction. I like the new Notes app for casual drawing/sketching/writing/doodling. And I can see/modify notes on my desktop as well. I have been surprised how responsive both the Pencil and iPad is. The whole idea for me was to use the iPad Pro as a laptop when I am away from home since I switched to a 27-inch iMac 5 years ago. I just have to have a big, calibrated screen for post-processing photos. The iPad Pro combination I have now allows me to accomplish 90% of what I could with the a standard laptop. Plus, I can use GPS when I am "on the road" to figure out exactly where I am.
How good is it to write with it? Can I use the iPad Pro and Pencil as a replacement for my Moleskine?
Horace Dediu wrote his review of the pencil by hand:
http://www.asymco.com/2015/11/18/my-review-of-the-apple-pencil/
I have atrocious handwriting and I filled out a lengthy document with it yesterday. The best compliment I can give the Pencil is it perfectly replicated my atrocious handwriting with no issues.
Palm rejection that 'just works' must be the deal maker.
Saw my first Pro 'in the flesh' yesterday and to use a much hackneyed expression, was shocked at its size. Pencils have long been my friends, looking forward to experiencing Apple's pencil and iPad Pro (currently a first gen user).
To overcome the slick feel of plastic-on-glass, I wonder if someone will sell an overlay film (like a screen protector) with a little "tooth" (texture) that will make the Pencil feel like it is really stroking a piece of paper. It's an accessory opportunity!
Getting that just right would be an interesting achievement. Lifetime of the tip would be reduced (I'd guess).
The lack of an eraser is a glaring oversight. I've seen many artist on video already yearn for this ability. I'm surprised Ive didn't include it, it's so clearly a good idea. Especially not the likes of note taking apps.
Without arguing for or against an eraser end cap, it strikes me that the lightning connector could have provided power and communications with an active cap. I'd also like to be able to tap the pen on an end cap absent mindedly a few times (as I do with a real pencil, active end cap not necessary though) and have Siri come up and ask, "penny for your thoughts?"
Edit: have read more of the thread now and note similar comments.