What does that have to do with anything? The 5c was discontinued last September. The 5S is the current low-end phone. It has Touch ID. Apple is not going to remove a feature the current low end phone has.
You said "the 5s replaced the 5c," that's why. It didn't.
Nothing personal but I'm putting you on mute. You don't seem to be able to put together a coherent argument and it just wastes my time (as well as yours), to argue with you about anything.
Yes it absolutely did place the 5c as the entry level model, last year. But thanks for pointing out something that wasn't even germane to the conversation being discussed.
I couldn't be happier to be included on your ignore list, and now that you've reminded me to check that out again, you'll be on mine. Nothing personal.
I don't. I know this phone won't have the best camera or 3D Touch. But 2GB RAM allows it to get multiple years of software upgrades without much degradation in user experience.
but what about the people who bought iPhone6 just 4 months ago? Strange that a bottom tier phone will have better specs than a top-tier phone sold 4 months ago.
True, but that just shows how stupid Apple was for not giving 6 and 6 Plus 2GB RAM in the first place. The 6 Plus expecially needed it.
Utter bs. People who buy 6s over 6 because it's better spec, not a look. When I tried 6s, I was sold by its performance, camera, 3D Touch...so I traded in my wife's 1-year old 6 for it....
Then you have no idea how the mainstream buyer thinks. The mainstream buyer only cares about how it looks, how big the screen is, and that its the latest body style.
I don't get this. Most people aren't buying a new phone every year. Apple updates the body style every two years so for most people it's not the same.
Of course Apple cares about cannibalization. They care about lower end products canibalzing higher end products. That's why there was no iPad Air3 last year (canibalize iPad Pro) That's why they released the iPhone 5c instead of selling the 5 at a discount. That's why they are constantly gimping the iPad mini.
The exception was last year when they kept the iPhone6. I don't think they will make that same mistake again.
People are idiots. You can a thousand commericals explaining why the 6s is better than the 6. But they won't believe you or care once they see that the 6s and the 6 look virtually identical.
Only 30% of iPhone users have upgraded to 6 series. I belong to the remaining 70%... We 70%, are we drunk or what, dude?
Of course 100% are not expected to upgrade, but 30% is still too low... Apple failed to sell 6 series to its loyal customer base, consisting in large majority of iPad owners who don't need any phablet or large screen at all...
But I see your point regarding people's buying habits and partially agree. Meanwhile I suspect there is a deeper pattern there involving large screen and phablet buyers. Given that these are mostly Android switchers or first time buyers in the third world, they are already dead end, who don't upgrade, don't buy anything extra and who absolutely are not interested in the Apple system.
So the blame is not on 6 to 6s incremental upgrade,or their looking virtually identical, the blame is with the form factor itself...
Possibly Touch ID? The 5S has Touch ID, why would a refresh not? The article author got too caught up in the comparison with the older 5 and forgot there's already a 4" model with Touch ID.
The iPhone 5c, which this would presumably be replacing, doesn't have Touch ID. Not like it's above Apple to use Touch ID/Apple Pay access as a push to buy the more expensive 6s...
The presumption is that it's replacing a device in the currently line up (the 5s, the 5c is no longer available via Apple), so it's more likely that it would/should have Touch ID actually (because the 5s does) and in that case then, why not just include Apple Pay.
How about a model for those of us whom don't have a problem with the money, but do have a problem with the size. I bought the 6 Plus for one reason, and that was the camera. Do I like the size? Not at all. If I could have a 4" model that includes absolutely every one of the major features, I'd pay for it. There's absolutely ZERO logic in assuming that people with no money would get the small model, and people with money will buy the huge model.
Don't think for a second that I wouldn't LOVE to have absolutely every option crammed into the original iPhone case. I loved that size, and it's not at all about the cash. I've got that. I just hate having to buy the big phones for the features. Hey Jony, you're big with minimalism right? Make it happen. A jam-packed feature phone in an original iPhone 1 case. Hell, price it the same as a 6S Plus. Give me a 128GB model with the latest LTE antennas, the latest camera, and I'll happily hand over the Benjamins.
How about a model for those of us whom don't have a problem with the money, but do have a problem with the size. I bought the 6 Plus for one reason, and that was the camera. Do I like the size? Not at all. If I could have a 4" model that includes absolutely every one of the major features, I'd pay for it. There's absolutely ZERO logic in assuming that people with no money would get the small model, and people with money will buy the huge model.
Don't think for a second that I wouldn't LOVE to have absolutely every option crammed into the original iPhone case. I loved that size, and it's not at all about the cash. I've got that. I just hate having to buy the big phones for the features. Hey Jony, you're big with minimalism right? Make it happen. A jam-packed feature phone in an original iPhone 1 case. Hell, price it the same as a 6S Plus. Give me a 128GB model with the latest LTE antennas, the latest camera, and I'll happily hand over the Benjamins.
I really don't understand why Apple favors people with large hands which are mostly adult men and ignores people with small hands like women and kids. I have a 14 y/o nephew who owns his own 5s, his mother's 6, his own iPad 3, his mother's iPad Mini 3, his own iMac 27 boot camped for games... And his symbiotic favorite is the 5s, I discussed this with him but he doesn't give up and rejects 6 series.
The 6 series is too "macho" with that size, the rose gold doesn't bring "gender equality" to it ;-) Apple should provide a 4 inch version of its premium 6 series identical exactly in all specs except screen size (I accept other limitations due to smaller size). The top management is very modern and humanitarian but the iPhone product range seems reflecting a third world approach, favoring men over women...
The 6 and 6s look exactly the same. The only difference is the 6s is thicker and heavier. How is that better?
Most buyers don't give a crap about CPU, Live Photo's, 3d touch, ect. All they want is the latest iPhone style. So if two iPhones look identical they will most likely buy the cheaper one.
Well, you couldn't be more wrong here. People actually buy the phones based primarily on Apple's marketing points whether you think so or not. Also, generally speaking, when the new models come out the old ones are discontinued, so it's rare for people buying a phone to even have a choice.
For the record, (to address your "thicker and heavier" insult above), the iPhone 6s feels better in the hand. It isn't slippery like the iPhone 6 is and has a much more solid, substantial feel. This is because of the higher quality aluminium and the finish they put on it, both of which are undetectable to (your) eye, but still very compelling to the buyer.
His comment was based on his own nonsense analysis. Ignore it. If everyone is like who he thinks, Apple wouldn't be able to sell any "S" version. Historical data showed that Apple sold more and more "S" models. So, Sog35 didn't have any clue of what he said. My few examples from people I know around me, non-techie. They bought iPhone 6S version mainly because of camera capability, faster Touch ID and 3D Touch. Also, Asian like the Rose gold color too. However, the feature appealed to women a lot was LCD flash for selfie. Everyone I talked to mentioned that this was the feature they used a lot. Why? Women like selfie and social network...and LCD flash brought out the best of it.
How about a model for those of us whom don't have a problem with the money, but do have a problem with the size. I bought the 6 Plus for one reason, and that was the camera. Do I like the size? Not at all. If I could have a 4" model that includes absolutely every one of the major features, I'd pay for it. There's absolutely ZERO logic in assuming that people with no money would get the small model, and people with money will buy the huge model.
Don't think for a second that I wouldn't LOVE to have absolutely every option crammed into the original iPhone case. I loved that size, and it's not at all about the cash. I've got that. I just hate having to buy the big phones for the features. Hey Jony, you're big with minimalism right? Make it happen. A jam-packed feature phone in an original iPhone 1 case. Hell, price it the same as a 6S Plus. Give me a 128GB model with the latest LTE antennas, the latest camera, and I'll happily hand over the Benjamins.
I really don't understand why Apple favors people with large hands which are mostly adult men and ignores people with small hands like women and kids. I have a 14 y/o nephew who owns his own 5s, his mother's 6, his own iPad 3, his mother's iPad Mini 3, his own iMac 27 boot camped for games... And his symbiotic favorite is the 5s, I discussed this with him but he doesn't give up and rejects 6 series.
The 6 series is too "macho" with that size, the rose gold doesn't bring "gender equality" to it ;-) Apple should provide a 4 inch version of its premium 6 series identical exactly in all specs except screen size (I accept other limitations due to smaller size). The top management is very modern and humanitarian but the iPhone product range seems reflecting a third world approach, favoring men over women...
I'm not interested in making this a gender issue. Phones are as neutral as tennis balls. I stated my case, and I think a lot of people would love to have absolutely all the features in a small form factor. It annoys me to no end that they don't focus on this. I'd trade in my 6 Plus in a heart beat for an original sized iPhone with zero compromises on tech. At worst, a 4" model that isn't dialed down just to fsck with people. I'll kindly take my iPhone in black or space gray. The rest of the color options are lost on me.
How about a model for those of us whom don't have a problem with the money, but do have a problem with the size. I bought the 6 Plus for one reason, and that was the camera. Do I like the size? Not at all. If I could have a 4" model that includes absolutely every one of the major features, I'd pay for it. There's absolutely ZERO logic in assuming that people with no money would get the small model, and people with money will buy the huge model.
Don't think for a second that I wouldn't LOVE to have absolutely every option crammed into the original iPhone case. I loved that size, and it's not at all about the cash. I've got that. I just hate having to buy the big phones for the features. Hey Jony, you're big with minimalism right? Make it happen. A jam-packed feature phone in an original iPhone 1 case. Hell, price it the same as a 6S Plus. Give me a 128GB model with the latest LTE antennas, the latest camera, and I'll happily hand over the Benjamins.
I really don't understand why Apple favors people with large hands which are mostly adult men and ignores people with small hands like women and kids. I have a 14 y/o nephew who owns his own 5s, his mother's 6, his own iPad 3, his mother's iPad Mini 3, his own iMac 27 boot camped for games... And his symbiotic favorite is the 5s, I discussed this with him but he doesn't give up and rejects 6 series.
The 6 series is too "macho" with that size, the rose gold doesn't bring "gender equality" to it ;-) Apple should provide a 4 inch version of its premium 6 series identical exactly in all specs except screen size (I accept other limitations due to smaller size). The top management is very modern and humanitarian but the iPhone product range seems reflecting a third world approach, favoring men over women..
Why? Because the phone usage evolved over time. People today use the phone for mainly internet browsing, video, social networks and texting which is better with large screen . Phone call is less than 10% usage. 4" version is perfect for phone calls and adequate for texts, but for browsing web, video or social network, it sucks.
I don't like position of the new iPhone 6C or 5SE! It being called already the "poor man's iPhone"!
No it's not. Jun quarter sale would be terrible without the new 4" version. Apple know it. So, this will boost the sale. 4" iPhone 6, I called it "6 Minus" with new Touch ID, Apple Pay, A9 chip, 2GB RAM and Live Photo will play important role in Mid tier beside iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. Many people still love 4" version and will upgrade from 5s to gain the new features/specs.
The 6 series is too "macho" with that size, the rose gold doesn't bring "gender equality" to it ;-) Apple should provide a 4 inch
I'm not interested in making this a gender issue. Phones are as neutral as tennis balls.
I'm not interested in making this a gender issue, either. If a handheld device is in question the size of a hand does matter, no matter what the gender is. Taken demographically, one can see a gender issue there or not. A non negligible percentage of the population are forced to use these phones with both hands and I claim Apple must take care of this.
but what about the people who bought iPhone6 just 4 months ago? Strange that a bottom tier phone will have better specs than a top-tier phone sold 4 months ago.
True, but that just shows how stupid Apple was for not giving 6 and 6 Plus 2GB RAM in the first place. The 6 Plus expecially needed it.
I don't believe this 4" version is released at low tier, but mid tier, same price as iPhone 6. You get smaller screen with better specs for the same price. It's fair. There's no reason that Apple release this 4" phone to replace the 5s. 5s will be discontinued in Fall anyway, why rush? However, they may drop $100 on this new 4" phone and move it to low tier in Fall when they release iPhone 7. I don't see anything wrong with this lineup in Mar:
6S/6S+: $650/$750 6/5se/6+: $550/$550/$650. I believe the name won't be 5se, but 6Something. 5S: $450
And move these down and discontinue 5s in Fall when iPhone 7 is released.
I really don't understand why Apple favors people with large hands which are mostly adult men and ignores people with small
Why? Because the phone usage evolved over time. People today use the phone for mainly internet browsing, video, social networks and texting which is better with large screen . Phone call is less than 10% usage. 4" version is perfect for phone calls and adequate for texts, but for browsing web, video or social network, it sucks.
Browsing web, video or social networks started with the 3.5 inch iPhone, if it was sucking the iPhone wouldn't even start. Larger screens started not because of such needs, but because Android's Java VM is consuming so much battery that the phones needs to be made larger to accomodate larger batteries. The extra screen space was just a byproduct, not a goal.
I know it Won't happen, but I would Love it if apple use all the same parts as the 6S in a 4" 2GB ram, A9, 12MP/5MP 3D touch etc. all in a 4" package: cost: $599 16GB, $699 64GB, $799 128GB. Make it a real phone and see where sales go with that size phone. Don't gimp the specs.
I have to say this is just a crazy argument. There is arguably a greater difference between the iPhone 6s and the iPhone 6 than many of the previous models. Anyone who has examined both devices or even seen them side by side can tell you this. They even feel different in the hand.
The 6 and 6s look exactly the same. The only difference is the 6s is thicker and heavier. How is that better?
Most buyers don't give a crap about CPU, Live Photo's, 3d touch, ect. All they want is the latest iPhone style. So if two iPhones look identical they will most likely buy the cheaper one.
Let's not forget that you don't actually know the sales breakdown between iPhone models, so when you say 'most likely' you're guessing with absolutely nothing to back it up.
I know it Won't happen, but I would Love it if apple use all the same parts as the 6S in a 4" 2GB ram, A9, 12MP/5MP 3D touch etc. all in a 4" package: cost: $599 16GB, $699 64GB, $799 128GB. Make it a real phone and see where sales go with that size phone. Don't gimp the specs.
So, you want 2/3 the battery life of the 6s... Seems that's what you asked? So, 5-6h of browsing before your phone dies? There are reasons you don't get all those things in a smaller phone.... It's smaller! You may get a A9, but it will be clocked so it's just a bit faster than a A8 (thus saving battery life because it's a smaller process than the A8). 3D touch takes a lot of space inside the phone, so it probably would not be there in a smaller phone. Of course, they could make the phone much thicker that the 6s and then you'd get maybe 3d touch and similar battery life to the 6s even with A9 clocked higher.
I know it Won't happen, but I would Love it if apple use all the same parts as the 6S in a 4" 2GB ram, A9, 12MP/5MP 3D touch etc. all in a 4" package: cost: $599 16GB, $699 64GB, $799 128GB. Make it a real phone and see where sales go with that size phone. Don't gimp the specs.
So, you want 2/3 the battery life of the 6s... Seems that's what you asked? So, 5-6h of browsing before your phone dies? There are reasons you don't get all those things in a smaller phone.... It's smaller! You may get a A9, but it will be clocked so it's just a bit faster than a A8 (thus saving battery life because it's a smaller process than the A8). 3D touch takes a lot of space inside the phone, so it probably would not be there in a smaller phone. Of course, they could make the phone much thicker that the 6s and then you'd get maybe 3d touch and similar battery life to the 6s even with A9 clocked higher.
Just give us the original iPhone size. It's thicker than current models, substantially so. Everything can be stuck into it, including a retina display that uses less power because it's smaller. I disagree with the idea that we have to have huge phones for the best features. Absolutely everything in a 6S Plus could be made to fit into an original iPhone enclosure with a new screen. Jony needs to take his whole minimalistic schtick to heart and give us back smaller phones that kick ass (or whomever it is that actually designs things at Apple these days).
The 6 and 6s look exactly the same. The only difference is the 6s is thicker and heavier. How is that better?
Most buyers don't give a crap about CPU, Live Photo's, 3d touch, ect. All they want is the latest iPhone style. So if two iPhones look identical they will most likely buy the cheaper one.
Let's not forget that you don't actually know the sales breakdown between iPhone models, so when you say 'most likely' you're guessing with absolutely nothing to back it up.
His argument is completely absurd...
He's saying people don't care about all those things below despite well, many of them being major reasons to buy a Iphone.
, people "don't care" for:
(Tougher phone, much tougher than all the competition) - Using AL 7000 - Seemingly made IPX7 at least without Apple officially acknowledging it (so says several tests)
(Using the camera is one of the major thing people do with their Iphone) - A better camera 12MP, phase detection autofocus (quicker) - Ability to film and take photo at the same time (Live Photo) - Much improved video: Ability to film in 4K (take 8MP while you film), Optical stabilisation in video (not in 4K mode), 240 fps 720p and 120fps 1080p - Better Selfie/videophone 5MP Camera and using the screen as a flash (so better low light selfies)
(Performance) - Twice the memory, important for power users and those that open lots of tabs in browser. - much faster, more efficient CPU, important in games, web browsing - massively faster GPU (that's especially important if you're looking in buying the 6+) - SSD-class controller and storage, way faster than well anyone else, important if manipulating large files - Battery life improved considerably, especially for the 6s (+25%).
(Screen) - 3D touch (how useful that is depends on your use case initially until most apps get a conversion)
(Network) - More LTE bands, makes a difference in network speed on some networks, like AT & T. - Supports LTE advanced - Blue tooth 4.2, much faster, better privacy, etc. Faster means uses less power (since its idle quicker) than older BT, if you have bluetooth anything, that's pretty important.
(Other things) - Almost instantaneous touch ID - Always on SIRI - Increased color selection
That's a hell of a lot of changes.
I often wonder when people state absurd thing; how can they even argue their position?
Comments
I couldn't be happier to be included on your ignore list, and now that you've reminded me to check that out again, you'll be on mine. Nothing personal.
Of course 100% are not expected to upgrade, but 30% is still too low... Apple failed to sell 6 series to its loyal customer base, consisting in large majority of iPad owners who don't need any phablet or large screen at all...
But I see your point regarding people's buying habits and partially agree. Meanwhile I suspect there is a deeper pattern there involving large screen and phablet buyers. Given that these are mostly Android switchers or first time buyers in the third world, they are already dead end, who don't upgrade, don't buy anything extra and who absolutely are not interested in the Apple system.
So the blame is not on 6 to 6s incremental upgrade,or their looking virtually identical, the blame is with the form factor itself...
Again/emphasis on presumption ...
Lets see if that's the case when it's released, because it could just as well still be called an iPhone 6 Mini, or anything anyone else has mentioned.
The 6 series is too "macho" with that size, the rose gold doesn't bring "gender equality" to it ;-) Apple should provide a 4 inch version of its premium 6 series identical exactly in all specs except screen size (I accept other limitations due to smaller size). The top management is very modern and humanitarian but the iPhone product range seems reflecting a third world approach, favoring men over women...
My few examples from people I know around me, non-techie. They bought iPhone 6S version mainly because of camera capability, faster Touch ID and 3D Touch. Also, Asian like the Rose gold color too. However, the feature appealed to women a lot was LCD flash for selfie. Everyone I talked to mentioned that this was the feature they used a lot. Why? Women like selfie and social network...and LCD flash brought out the best of it.
Why? Because the phone usage evolved over time. People today use the phone for mainly internet browsing, video, social networks and texting which is better with large screen . Phone call is less than 10% usage. 4" version is perfect for phone calls and adequate for texts, but for browsing web, video or social network, it sucks.
No it's not. Jun quarter sale would be terrible without the new 4" version. Apple know it. So, this will boost the sale. 4" iPhone 6, I called it "6 Minus" with new Touch ID, Apple Pay, A9 chip, 2GB RAM and Live Photo will play important role in Mid tier beside iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. Many people still love 4" version and will upgrade from 5s to gain the new features/specs.
I don't believe this 4" version is released at low tier, but mid tier, same price as iPhone 6. You get smaller screen with better specs for the same price. It's fair. There's no reason that Apple release this 4" phone to replace the 5s. 5s will be discontinued in Fall anyway, why rush? However, they may drop $100 on this new 4" phone and move it to low tier in Fall when they release iPhone 7.
I don't see anything wrong with this lineup in Mar:
6S/6S+: $650/$750
6/5se/6+: $550/$550/$650. I believe the name won't be 5se, but 6Something.
5S: $450
And move these down and discontinue 5s in Fall when iPhone 7 is released.
2GB ram, A9, 12MP/5MP 3D touch etc. all in a 4" package: cost: $599 16GB, $699 64GB, $799 128GB.
Make it a real phone and see where sales go with that size phone. Don't gimp the specs.
Let's not forget that you don't actually know the sales breakdown between iPhone models, so when you say 'most likely' you're guessing with absolutely nothing to back it up.
So, 5-6h of browsing before your phone dies?
There are reasons you don't get all those things in a smaller phone.... It's smaller!
You may get a A9, but it will be clocked so it's just a bit faster than a A8 (thus saving battery life because it's a smaller process than the A8).
3D touch takes a lot of space inside the phone, so it probably would not be there in a smaller phone.
Of course, they could make the phone much thicker that the 6s and then you'd get maybe 3d touch and similar battery life to the 6s even with A9 clocked higher.
He's saying people don't care about all those things below despite well, many of them being major reasons to buy a Iphone.
, people "don't care" for:
(Tougher phone, much tougher than all the competition)
- Using AL 7000
- Seemingly made IPX7 at least without Apple officially acknowledging it (so says several tests)
(Using the camera is one of the major thing people do with their Iphone)
- A better camera 12MP, phase detection autofocus (quicker)
- Ability to film and take photo at the same time (Live Photo)
- Much improved video: Ability to film in 4K (take 8MP while you film), Optical stabilisation in video (not in 4K mode), 240 fps 720p and 120fps 1080p
- Better Selfie/videophone 5MP Camera and using the screen as a flash (so better low light selfies)
(Performance)
- Twice the memory, important for power users and those that open lots of tabs in browser.
- much faster, more efficient CPU, important in games, web browsing
- massively faster GPU (that's especially important if you're looking in buying the 6+)
- SSD-class controller and storage, way faster than well anyone else, important if manipulating large files
- Battery life improved considerably, especially for the 6s (+25%).
(Screen)
- 3D touch (how useful that is depends on your use case initially until most apps get a conversion)
(Network)
- More LTE bands, makes a difference in network speed on some networks, like AT & T.
- Supports LTE advanced
- Blue tooth 4.2, much faster, better privacy, etc.
Faster means uses less power (since its idle quicker) than older BT, if you have bluetooth anything, that's pretty important.
(Other things)
- Almost instantaneous touch ID
- Always on SIRI
- Increased color selection
That's a hell of a lot of changes.
I often wonder when people state absurd thing; how can they even argue their position?