The blanket 60-80 hrs statement is never a blanket. Living minutes away from MS, I have heard stories of work hrs of 60-100+ hrs, At the same time, I have also stories of supers kicking out their charges if it is after 5:00 PM.
Makes a lot of sense - over paid, has no value to add so she spews BS to try and look valuable.
ah right, so you must work pretty closely with Tim Cook in order to have such insight into her job performance? other than what we the public know as far as Apple stores being among the most profitable & successful per square-foot on earth. i mean, easy, right.
The blanket 60-80 hrs statement is never a blanket. Living minutes away from MS, I have heard stories of work hrs of 60-100+ hrs, At the same time, I have also stories of supers kicking out their charges if it is after 5:00 PM.
Tim has said on stage as did Steve before giving thanks and appreciation to the engineers for putting in long hours and sacrificing their family life for working on the latest and greatest. Randy Ubillos even claimed to have written most of iMovie HD while on vacation.
BTW many Apple engineers have their current projects posted on Linkedin.
Working for an Apple store is not the same as working for Apple as a developer or engineer, which is what this article is about, as stated in its opening sentence.
I'm well aware she's SVP of Retail, but the one quote that stands out in that article is this:
"The thing I didn’t know before I came in—a month in, I told my husband, "I now know why this is one of the most successful companies on the planet: Because the culture is so strong. The pride, the protection, the values." The company was built to change people’s lives. That foundation, that service mentality, that drive to continue to change lives—that is a core value in the company."
She isn't just talking about retail here, but the entire company, which is why this Fast Company interview & The Guardian article contradict each other. And I figure if Apple was that bad, she wouldn't have left her $28 million a year CEO job at Burberry to be SVP of Retail at Apple. Apple is the only company that I've seen where it can convince CEO's of other companies take a "demotion".
As one might say in England, "what a lot of bollocks".
This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, guys. Who gives a royal flush what these self-interested parties are griping about Apple? Honestly.
But what if it's true? I have a friend (another scout dad -- I've backpacked with him for years) who worked for several years at Apple in Austin, as an electrical engineer. He said that Apple is a miserable place to work. The yelling, long hours, and upper management pressure were common themes. He hated it, and is much happier at ARM now.
I've worked at many employers where yelling, backstabbing, undermining and credit stealing (of the "look what I did!" variety, not the credit card kind) were commonplace. Workplaces are competitive environments!
Whatever company is on top is always going to draw the ire of those who think that belittling others improves their own status. The same heavily biased attacks were leveled at Microsoft when they were King. This behavior is a common trait and characteristic of a class of people we commonly refer to as "Losers."
In the Guardian's pea brained logic I guess they must think that engineers and scientists working at defense contractors and for government agencies like the NSA must feel socially stunted because they can't brag about their work on Facebook. Reality is, true professionals don't need the kind of hollow and narcissistic affirmation that Facebook provides. The majority of professionals, whether degreed or not, whether working in an auto dealership or NASA, just do their job, contribute to teams they care about, provide for their families, and are accountable for their own actions. True professionals don't whine, bitch, moan, and complain about trivial stuff in a public forum.
As far as "free" food and other workplace amenities are concerned, most companies that provide such things do so for one reason, to keep their people at work longer or to compensate for employees spending time they should be spending with their families stuck at work. I'd rather have two day old stale cold pizza with my family than working OT or on a weekend with a gourmet steak served by my boss. Companies that value their people don't ask them to sacrifice their family time for a donut and free soda.
Oh dear. Your personal anecdote is nullified by mine.
I don't find it less crowded, but business is conducted much more efficiently; I get in and make my purchase faster. My store in Reno has been in operation since March 2006, and I go there about 4 times a year; a couple of major purchases, and usually a quick stop for an accessory or cable. It's always fast if you know what you want, and I have never seen any of the tables for consultations or diagnosis empty.
There would be less excitement of course than when the store opened, but then again, I'm part of the customer base for the store for the last decade. Younger customers likely have a "more exciting" experience.
Let me ask you a couple questions about your quarterly visits to Jony Ive's House (your local Apple Store) You already own one of everything they sell, correct? Your visits there are not an eye opening experience? Are you challenged ( oh that's a neat, intriguing, compelling accessory I was unaware of) at all?
My point is that for an increasing amount of people, store visits are a ho-hum experience. A lot of traffic with fewer and fewer actual purchases. Much like my last quarterly visit which was to view a very specific website (high def images of King Tut's Tomb) on a 5K monitor to see if there was noticeable difference from my 7 year old iMac at home. I surfed the website (unimpressed, no discernible difference) and walked out.
I think many people are having the same experience.
Yet, actual sales and even satisfaction numbers don't back anything you said; so, guess your gut is wrong hmmm...
Of course there is. It is not uncommon for people to NOT be able to talk about their work. I had an avionics software bug I discovered recently that made Fox, CNN, SlashDot, The Verge, ArsTech... The whole lot.
Reading the comments in the comment sections were a hoot and frustrating because lots and lots of people know tons about nothing. I couldn't speak up.
secrecy in your work is not just military.
You seem to have misconstrued, let me put it another way. Is the secrecy that was exercised at Bletchly of greater importance than the secrecy Apple exercises? The former is about peoples lives and national security and survival, the latter is about some small pile of money. Are these two instances of secrecy of equal importance?
I didn't misconstrue what you wrote in any way. You spicifically stated there was not the slightest parallel between keeping secrets for code breakers in WWIi and keeping secrets for commercial companies. In BOTH the lively hood of people can be at stake but in differnt ways. You belittle people working for "a pile of money" and disregard the impact their work and actions have on the people around them.
Companies can (and have) failed because of leaked information like product road maps. This can displace 100's or 1000's of families creating lots of strife and stress in the process.
Is it the same as keeping war time secrets and getting to pick what battalion to save and which to sacrifice? Nope. Are their strong parallels? Absolutely and without a doubt.
I'd go further and just spray "repellant" all over the hiring window.
Sign at Apple corporate hiring window...
We hope you love Apple as much as we do, but please do NOT apply to be employed on our team if:
1. If it pains you that you can't brag about your work to your friends to upgrade your social status. 2. If you prefer to work with those that produce only failed products and services. 3. If you're looking for a free lunch.
I would love to work for Apple, my dream job. But I don't want to leave NYC.
Well then, your dream of living in New York obviously trumps your dream of working for Apple else you'd have already moved.
Congratulations on achieving and living one of your dreams (living in New York). Some people don't ever achieve something they dream about - so you're already a step ahead. Don't be greedy and unsatisfied - and maybe consider helping someone else achieve one of their dreams now.
Oh dear. Your personal anecdote is nullified by mine.
I don't find it less crowded, but business is conducted much more efficiently; I get in and make my purchase faster. My store in Reno has been in operation since March 2006, and I go there about 4 times a year; a couple of major purchases, and usually a quick stop for an accessory or cable. It's always fast if you know what you want, and I have never seen any of the tables for consultations or diagnosis empty.
There would be less excitement of course than when the store opened, but then again, I'm part of the customer base for the store for the last decade. Younger customers likely have a "more exciting" experience.
My point is that for an increasing amount of people, store visits are a ho-hum experience. A lot of traffic with fewer and fewer actual purchases. Much like my last quarterly visit which was to view a very specific website (high def images of King Tut's Tomb) on a 5K monitor to see if there was noticeable difference from my 7 year old iMac at home. I surfed the website (unimpressed, no discernible difference) and walked out.
I think many people are having the same experience.
it would be great if you could back up your un-tested hypothesis with some cold, hard data. because the apple stores are among the most profitable spaces in retail. on earth.
Of course there is. It is not uncommon for people to NOT be able to talk about their work. I had an avionics software bug I discovered recently that made Fox, CNN, SlashDot, The Verge, ArsTech... The whole lot.
Reading the comments in the comment sections were a hoot and frustrating because lots and lots of people know tons about nothing. I couldn't speak up.
secrecy in your work is not just military.
You seem to have misconstrued, let me put it another way. Is the secrecy that was exercised at Bletchly of greater importance than the secrecy Apple exercises? The former is about peoples lives and national security and survival, the latter is about some small pile of money. Are these two instances of secrecy of equal importance?
why on earth are you bringing up the notion of "importance"? nobody's talking about that, the point was that secrets can be kept -- for years, if needed.
i suspect youre attempting to use this new notion of importance as a red herring to the fact that the original point flew over your head. "Quick, misdirect!"
You seem to have misconstrued, let me put it another way. Is the secrecy that was exercised at Bletchly of greater importance than the secrecy Apple exercises? The former is about peoples lives and national security and survival, the latter is about some small pile of money. Are these two instances of secrecy of equal importance?
why on earth are you bringing up the notion of "importance"? nobody's talking about that, the point was that secrets can be kept -- for years, if needed.
i suspect youre attempting to use this new notion of importance as a red herring to the fact that the original point flew over your head. "Quick, misdirect!"
Also, in the Bletchley park case, they kept the secret even when in all fairness, it was kind of pointless. Loyalty to their country, to their duty was more important than the recognition they could get from what they did.he war, Just after the war, this silence it helped keep the enigma cracking a secret; but they kept it secret until the state declassified it much much later.
This sense of duty and loyalty, trumping their own need for self-aggrandizement is basically what's needed to work at Apple. That's duty and loyalty is what kept those code breakers from talking. Their own satisfaction for jobs well done is the key in both cases.
I would really love to work for Apple, I have extensive experience and have applied many time, but not successful. I do feel there is a diversity issue at Apple, every time I had phone screen with them I am dealing with people who do not want a diversity.
Or maybe, just maybe, you are overvaluing yourself and that refusal to hire you had nothing to do with diversity. Diversity is orthogonal to the main goal of the company. It is something that would be nice to have, IF it doesn't hinder the progress to the main goal.
Unqualified but diverse people will hinder the progress by the virtue of being less qualified than other candidates....
Also, by explaining it away as a diversity issue, you are robbing yourself of the opportunities.
How can Apple expect to get a world class AI researcher to work there? Nobody knows if they even have a serious AI department. From all accounts, Apple doesn't actually invent anything new in the world of computer science... They exceed at applying existing technologies to make quality consumer goods.
they've given tiny peeks into the design lab. They need to do the same for the engineering side of indeed there is anything groundbreaking and fundamental going on.
How can Apple expect to get a world class AI researcher to work there? Nobody knows if they even have a serious AI department. From all accounts, Apple doesn't actually invent anything new in the world of computer science... They exceed at applying existing technologies to make quality consumer goods.
they've given tiny peeks into the design lab. They need to do the same for the engineering side of indeed there is anything groundbreaking and fundamental going on.
I'm pretty sure with Apple's bank balance they can get just about anyone they want to come work there. Does anyone really believe if we don't know about something that means Apple's not researching it?
How can Apple expect to get a world class AI researcher to work there? Nobody knows if they even have a serious AI department. From all accounts, Apple doesn't actually invent anything new in the world of computer science... They exceed at applying existing technologies to make quality consumer goods.
they've given tiny peeks into the design lab. They need to do the same for the engineering side of indeed there is anything groundbreaking and fundamental going on.
You need to look up what "innovation" means rather than "invention"
Then you will understand why Apple doesn't benefit from showcasing "unfinished ideas" over "finished products", as some other tech companies seem to prefer.
As for hiring, I'm sure there are both researchers that want the credit for their efforts to be known far and wide, and others who would just like to see the results tin groundbreaking products that "change the world".
Comments
BTW many Apple engineers have their current projects posted on Linkedin.
https://www.linkedin.com/title/software-engineer-at-apple
"The thing I didn’t know before I came in—a month in, I told my husband, "I now know why this is one of the most successful companies on the planet: Because the culture is so strong. The pride, the protection, the values." The company was built to change people’s lives. That foundation, that service mentality, that drive to continue to change lives—that is a core value in the company."
She isn't just talking about retail here, but the entire company, which is why this Fast Company interview & The Guardian article contradict each other. And I figure if Apple was that bad, she wouldn't have left her $28 million a year CEO job at Burberry to be SVP of Retail at Apple. Apple is the only company that I've seen where it can convince CEO's of other companies take a "demotion".
In the Guardian's pea brained logic I guess they must think that engineers and scientists working at defense contractors and for government agencies like the NSA must feel socially stunted because they can't brag about their work on Facebook. Reality is, true professionals don't need the kind of hollow and narcissistic affirmation that Facebook provides. The majority of professionals, whether degreed or not, whether working in an auto dealership or NASA, just do their job, contribute to teams they care about, provide for their families, and are accountable for their own actions. True professionals don't whine, bitch, moan, and complain about trivial stuff in a public forum.
As far as "free" food and other workplace amenities are concerned, most companies that provide such things do so for one reason, to keep their people at work longer or to compensate for employees spending time they should be spending with their families stuck at work. I'd rather have two day old stale cold pizza with my family than working OT or on a weekend with a gourmet steak served by my boss. Companies that value their people don't ask them to sacrifice their family time for a donut and free soda.
Companies can (and have) failed because of leaked information like product road maps. This can displace 100's or 1000's of families creating lots of strife and stress in the process.
Is it the same as keeping war time secrets and getting to pick what battalion to save and which to sacrifice? Nope. Are their strong parallels? Absolutely and without a doubt.
Sign at Apple corporate hiring window...
We hope you love Apple as much as we do, but please do NOT apply to be employed on our team if:
1. If it pains you that you can't brag about your work to your friends to upgrade your social status.
2. If you prefer to work with those that produce only failed products and services.
3. If you're looking for a free lunch.
Congratulations on achieving and living one of your dreams (living in New York). Some people don't ever achieve something they dream about - so you're already a step ahead. Don't be greedy and unsatisfied - and maybe consider helping someone else achieve one of their dreams now.
data like these:
http://fortune.com/2015/03/13/apples-holiday-top-10-retailers-iphone/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/barbarathau/2014/05/20/apple-and-the-other-most-successful-retail-stores-by-sales-per-square-foot/
http://mashable.com/2012/08/15/apple-stores-infographic/#827cb4.zpOqr
http://macdailynews.com/2009/09/03/apple_store_regent_street_the_most_profitable_shop_in_london_for_its_size/
i suspect youre attempting to use this new notion of importance as a red herring to the fact that the original point flew over your head. "Quick, misdirect!"
Loyalty to their country, to their duty was more important than the recognition they could get from what they did.he war,
Just after the war, this silence it helped keep the enigma cracking a secret; but they kept it secret until the state declassified it much much later.
This sense of duty and loyalty, trumping their own need for self-aggrandizement is basically what's needed to work at Apple.
That's duty and loyalty is what kept those code breakers from talking.
Their own satisfaction for jobs well done is the key in both cases.
they've given tiny peeks into the design lab. They need to do the same for the engineering side of indeed there is anything groundbreaking and fundamental going on.
Then you will understand why Apple doesn't benefit from showcasing "unfinished ideas" over "finished products", as some other tech companies seem to prefer.
As for hiring, I'm sure there are both researchers that want the credit for their efforts to be known far and wide, and others who would just like to see the results tin groundbreaking products that "change the world".