Tenly may want to continue this engagement with you, but I'm done. I've wasted a lot of time trying to make you see things from a wider viewpoint but you just don't get it and I'm not sure you ever will.
Continue to visit forums like this one. Do more listening and less arguing. Realize that there are many gaps in your knowledge, and in time - maybe you will actually learn something.
As for your very last sentence. Through this entire thread, I never once claimed that there was any fault with the Surface tablets.
Good luck Tenly. He's all yours.
Ha ha! Well said nemoeac! I agree with 99% of what you said and I admire your patience. He obviously has a deep rooted need to defend Microsoft - probably an employee. It's clear to me that he doesn't want to understand reality. He's not worth me wasting any more of my time on either.
I'll start with clarifying that I'm not an Apple employee. My posts have been from a MBA, while I have other Apple devices. At the same time, my only device from MS is the Xbox. Since you asked, are you an Apple employee? For some reason you feel the obligation to defend Apple and critisize MS.
If you read my post, you may see I agree with many of you and @nemoeac points about redundancy. But you have to consider that an arena of that size may already have redundancy for servers and network components, and with all of this, it failed. How do you know what they did, what kind of infrastructure or recovery plan the arena have in place? Do any of you had physical access to the network o have access to the recovery plan documents? I don't think so. And still for some reason, you blame MS from the wifi failure. Can the NFL and MS do more? Of course. But remember that redundancy doesn't means 100% of availability. I means reduce downtime in case of failure, and that's what happen. They went hardwire while they fix the cabling issue that brought down wifi for NE.
All my posts are based on what I heard from the live game and from I have read in different websites. So maybe I'm missing something or just "I don't want to understand reality".
OS X is one product competing in an entire industry. If you compare apple unit sales 1 to 1 against any single company, then you'll see that Apple is doing very well.
Now, the surface is one product being compared to another product. If you compare the surface to the iPad 1 to 1, the surface looks like a failure. Keep in mind that people lambasted the Apple Watch as a failure, and people just shrugged and accepted that assessment, yet it has better adoption than the surface.
the iPad on its launch sold over 300,000 units on the first day and took less than a month to sell 1 million units. The surface's best quarter to date, after years on the market, has been 1 million units sold.
The post I answered mention "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close.
So in his POV, numbers define success. I don't necessarily agree with that. If that's the case, then OS X is a failure, since Windows 10 is for far ahead. And I can use the same logic with MS Office over iWorks or iPhone over Windows Phone.
There are many examples of excellent devices and applications that are a failure in sales. IMO, success doesn't means quality, and that applies to Apple and MS devices and applications. For me OS X, even with it's low marketshare, is an excellent OS, same as Windows 10. Surface Pro are great devices, even though they sell far less than iPads, which is a great device.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever. However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were "why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple. Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile, no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
The post I answered mention "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close.
So in his POV, numbers define success. I don't necessarily agree with that. If that's the case, then OS X is a failure, since Windows 10 is for far ahead. And I can use the same logic with MS Office over iWorks or iPhone over Windows Phone.
There are many examples of excellent devices and applications that are a failure in sales. IMO, success doesn't means quality, and that applies to Apple and MS devices and applications. For me OS X, even with it's low marketshare, is an excellent OS, same as Windows 10. Surface Pro are great devices, even though they sell far less than iPads, which is a great device.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever. However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were "why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple. Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile, no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
If the iPad Pro had nothing but the Pencil going for it, it would still be a must have for creatives, it's that good. Oh, and I have both for the record, and danvm's vocal about how great Surface Pro is, but I'm not seeing any acknowledgement that he is even in the market for one; but he argues like he has skin in the game.
I don't take danvm as a troll, but his attempt to spin my statement "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close" is especially weak.
What danvm can't or won't admit, is that iPad is absolutely a product in the mobile space, with all the limitations due to that, but Surface is a desktop product that MS is trying to sell against both the Mac Book line and against the iPad and iPad Pro. danvm is correct that Windows dominates the PC space and OS X is low marketshare, but when you look at mobile, MS isn't even a player with Surface. Maybe that will change with mass adoption of hybrids and success with Surface Phone, but frankly, Apple is going to develop the iPad line faster that Surface will evolve into mobile. The only question for iPad Pro's success is how many pro apps are developed for the iPad Pro.
This is a version one product we're talking about, not a fourth generation Surface, so it won't be hard to extrapolate how good the iPad Pro will be over the next couple of generations, and how the Pencil might evolve.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever. However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were "why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple. Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile, no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
If the iPad Pro had nothing but the Pencil going for it, it would still be a must have for creatives, it's that good. Oh, and I have both for the record, and danvm's vocal about how great Surface Pro is, but I'm not seeing any acknowledgement that he is even in the market for one; but he argues like he has skin in the game.
I don't take danvm as a troll, but his attempt to spin my statement "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close" is especially weak.
What danvm can't or won't admit, is that iPad is absolutely a product in the mobile space, with all the limitations due to that, but Surface is a desktop product that MS is trying to sell against both the Mac Book line and against the iPad and iPad Pro. danvm is correct that Windows dominates the PC space and OS X is low marketshare, but when you look at mobile, MS isn't even a player with Surface. Maybe that will change with mass adoption of hybrids and success with Surface Phone, but frankly, Apple is going to develop the iPad line faster that Surface will evolve into mobile. The only question for iPad Pro's success is how many pro apps are developed for the iPad Pro.
This is a version one product we're talking about, not a fourth generation Surface, so it won't be hard to extrapolate how good the iPad Pro will be over the next couple of generations, and how the Pencil might evolve.
I agree 100% about the pencil. Apple hit a homer with that one for it to be a first gen product. I think the key to the product will be dependent on the software that comes out for it, as you said.
Indeed, I've used the surface many times and have a few friends that have one. Of course, they aren't very much into technology and have little to no brand loyalty. I have one associate that owns an iPad mini, a surface pro 3 and a 21" Wacom cintiq, for instance.
for me, it was a matter of already being deeply entrenched in the iOS ecosystem, needing to upgrade and the fact that the pencil was announced. After that, I knew exactly what I was going to buy. Everything else is just gravy.
Your facts will fall on deaf ears here. Everyone here seems to be more interested in "feels" than "reals".
Oh boy, a Microsoft fan site loses their mo]ind ove highly suspect data from a suspect source using suspect methodology and when it is rightfully dim issued, it's about "feels" not "reals".
"Reals" would wait this]l actual sales figures come out. Even Paul Thurott, mr Microsoft fan himself, lambasted the winbeta article as useless fluff.
Your facts will fall on deaf ears here. Everyone here seems to be more interested in "feels" than "reals".
The winbeta.org link would need a whole lot of asterisks to be any kind of sales win against the iPad, but it's all that Surface fans have. The Surface is only doing well with regard to its previous sales metrics which are shit.
Hell, the Apple watch will probably do $8 B for its first year alone.
The post I answered mention "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close.
So in his POV, numbers define success. I don't necessarily agree with that. If that's the case, then OS X is a failure, since Windows 10 is for far ahead. And I can use the same logic with MS Office over iWorks or iPhone over Windows Phone.
There are many examples of excellent devices and applications that are a failure in sales. IMO, success doesn't means quality, and that applies to Apple and MS devices and applications. For me OS X, even with it's low marketshare, is an excellent OS, same as Windows 10. Surface Pro are great devices, even though they sell far less than iPads, which is a great device.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to the Lenovo, which ships close to 3x per quarter over Apple, even with the slowdown. And these number are from Gartner and IDC, since I haven't seen specific number from Apple or Lenovo.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and
Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will
destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever.
However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually
bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to
do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is
suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just
want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually
put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try
and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine
told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were
"why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet
at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple.
Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and
still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree
with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile,
no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just
watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases
basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought
theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to the Lenovo, which ships close to 3x per quarter over Apple, even with the slowdown. And these number are from Gartner and IDC, since I haven't seen specific number from Apple or Lenovo.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
"The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to Lenovo"
Logical fallacy; Apple makes 50% of the profit in the PC industry on it's meager share .
The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to the Lenovo, which ships close to 3x per quarter over Apple, even with the slowdown. And these number are from Gartner and IDC, since I haven't seen specific number from Apple or Lenovo.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
"The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to Lenovo"
Logical fallacy; Apple makes 50% of the profit in the PC industry on it's meager share .
Yes, I already knew that. But in my conversation with @liquidmarkI was referring devices sales, not profit. But thanks for point out the profit of Apple Mac line.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever. However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were "why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple. Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile, no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
If the iPad Pro had nothing but the Pencil going for it, it would still be a must have for creatives, it's that good. Oh, and I have both for the record, and danvm's vocal about how great Surface Pro is, but I'm not seeing any acknowledgement that he is even in the market for one; but he argues like he has skin in the game.
I don't have a Surface Pro, since I'm waiting to them for fix power management issues. But I have used them and they are great devices. I'm looking forward to buy one in the future.
I don't take danvm as a troll, but his attempt to spin my statement "As
for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe
the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known
Tuesday after the stock markets close" is especially weak.
What
danvm can't or won't admit, is that iPad is absolutely a product in the
mobile space, with all the limitations due to that, but Surface is a
desktop product that MS is trying to sell against both the Mac Book line
and against the iPad and iPad Pro. danvm is correct that Windows
dominates the PC space and OS X is low marketshare, but when you look at
mobile, MS isn't even a player with Surface. Maybe that will change
with mass adoption of hybrids and success with Surface Phone, but
frankly, Apple is going to develop the iPad line faster that
Surface will evolve into mobile. The only question for iPad Pro's
success is how many pro apps are developed for the iPad Pro.
I don't know where you had the idea that I don't think that the iPad is a mobile device. Tablets, smartphones and notebooks are mobile devices. You definition of Surface as a desktop product that doesn't makes sense. The Surface Pro is portable device, which is capable run universal app that are touch optimized and have a keyboard to use as a notebook. Doesn't that qualifies as a mobile device?
And you are saying that iPad Pro will evolve faster. But based in what I have seen, that's no necessarily true. You had to wait close to 5 years for a proper stylus, limited side by side apps and multitasking, and still there is no multiuser profiles a proper file system or support for pointing devices for when it's used vertically with the keyboard. All of this was included with Surface Pro since day one.
This
is a version one product we're talking about, not a fourth generation
Surface, so it won't be hard to extrapolate how good the iPad Pro will
be over the next couple of generations, and how the Pencil might evolve.
It's clear that iPad Pro will get better, as with previous iPads. But the same can be said for the Surface Pro line, that had been getting better every year. And I want to say this one more time, I have and love my iPad. But I have not problem seen when other devices do more than what I currently have.
If the iPad Pro had nothing but the Pencil going for it, it would still be a must have for creatives, it's that good. Oh, and I have both for the record, and danvm's vocal about how great Surface Pro is, but I'm not seeing any acknowledgement that he is even in the market for one; but he argues like he has skin in the game.
I don't have a Surface Pro, since I'm waiting to them for fix power management issues. But I have used them and they are great devices. I'm looking forward to buy one in the future.
I don't know where you had the idea that I don't think that the iPad is a mobile device. Tablets, smartphones and notebooks are mobile devices. You definition of Surface as a desktop product that doesn't makes sense. The Surface Pro is portable device, which is capable run universal app that are touch optimized and have a keyboard to use as a notebook. Doesn't that qualifies as a mobile device?
And you are saying that iPad Pro will evolve faster. But based in what I have seen, that's no necessarily true. You had to wait close to 5 years for a proper stylus, limited side by side apps and multitasking, and still there is no multiuser profiles a proper file system or support for pointing devices for when it's used vertically with the keyboard. All of this was included with Surface Pro since day one.
It's clear that iPad Pro will get better, as with previous iPads. But the same can be said for the Surface Pro line, that had been getting better every year. And I want to say this one more time, I have and love my iPad. But I have not problem seen when other devices do more than what I currently have.
Nobody considers laptops with desktop operating systems mobile devices, they are portables.
Because of the usage of the Surface, a hybrid, I feel fine considering it a portable desktop machine until there is wide adoption of its mobile functionality, and I have stated thus. But as a tablet split from its keyboard, the Surface is a weak contender in the mobile environment; wide development of Universal Apps could certainly change that, but just having the capability of mobile, doen't make the Surface a player in mobile.
I believe that the Surface competes today with the Mac Book and other laptops, and not well with any iPad. You do not agree with that obviously.
The numbers for Mac sales are nice tho. Like I said, you have to do a 1-to-1 comparison of sales instead of comparing one company to the entire combined market. If you do the latter then the one company will always look bad. Like I said, the numbers on the surface line are bad when you compare it to the numbers of the iPad line. No one is comparing the surface to the entire tablet market, it is being compared to another product. The surface is basically Zune 2.0 in terms of its market performance.
The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to the Lenovo, which ships close to 3x per quarter over Apple, even with the slowdown. And these number are from Gartner and IDC, since I haven't seen specific number from Apple or Lenovo.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
It doesn't matter. Apple easily is one of the top 5 companies when it comes to computer sales according to both Gartner and IDC. That's the point. It doesn't have to beat Lenovo, it just has to place in the top to be considered relevant. You can't call the Mac a failure when it's one of the top companies in the market in terms of sales. There's a difference between being a success and being #1. To claim otherwise is foolish. Your claim would be like claiming that Mercedes is a failure of a brand because it doesn't out ship Toyota.
in terms of the surface, it doesn't even have 1/10th the install base of either apple or Samsung. In terms of adoption, it probably ranks lower than HTC's tablets. The best quarter the surface ever saw, it moved 1 million units. A bad quarter for the iPad is 10 times that. Currently, there are over 250 million iPads that have been sold. 250 million. The surface has been out for over three years. Has it even sold more than 5-10 million units yet? Samsung managed to sell over 40 million units by 2013, so what's Microsoft's excuse? They have none. They are just being Microsoft. They are that nerdy rich kid that has expensive parties that nobody wants to go to because having money and a bouncy house doesn't make you cool instead of socially inept.
Also, the zune was OK, on paper, but it had the misfortune of being a Microsoft product and with Microsoft products, there's always a catch 22, an interface issue or a corner cut somewhere. There's always a moment where you could almost hear the committee mulling over a checklist of what should be in this product. IIRC they had a crazy DRM scheme with the thing, no real answer to iTunes, the original zune was turd colored, they bet the farm on their silly 'squirt' gimmick and the device itself just wasn't cool or sexy. They had the Zune HD, which was ok, but it just didn't actually DO much that an iPod Touch didn't already do. I Remember that Microsoft was talking about taking Apple down with some sort of music subscription service. Whoops! That didn't work! The Zune was a huge boondoggle. If you want to buy one as a curiosity, by all means, but it lost because it was created under the X-Killer mentality. That's why Microsoft keeps failing.
instead of making a good laptop, Microsoft wants to make a MacBook-Killer (surface pro and surface book). All complete with some shady advertising tactics and claims
Remember the 2010 CES announcement that ballmer gave? Microsoft just slapped some slate PC's together because they knew (just like everyone else) that Apple will likely be announcing a tablet device the following month and they wanted to beat Apple to the punch. Absolutely zero thought went into those things and the iPad easily embarrassed them in the market.
If Microsoft just chilled out and kindly stayed in its lane then it wouldn't repeatedly suffer embarrassment in the market. But believe me, Apple users aren't sitting around thinking about what Microsoft is doing day in and day out and you'll usually only hear "get a mac" when you are actually having problems that would probably (at least in the opinion of the observers) be solved by getting a Mac.
I don't have a Surface Pro, since I'm waiting to them for fix power management issues. But I have used them and they are great devices. I'm looking forward to buy one in the future.
I don't know where you had the idea that I don't think that the iPad is a mobile device. Tablets, smartphones and notebooks are mobile devices. You definition of Surface as a desktop product that doesn't makes sense. The Surface Pro is portable device, which is capable run universal app that are touch optimized and have a keyboard to use as a notebook. Doesn't that qualifies as a mobile device?
And you are saying that iPad Pro will evolve faster. But based in what I have seen, that's no necessarily true. You had to wait close to 5 years for a proper stylus, limited side by side apps and multitasking, and still there is no multiuser profiles a proper file system or support for pointing devices for when it's used vertically with the keyboard. All of this was included with Surface Pro since day one.
It's clear that iPad Pro will get better, as with previous iPads. But the same can be said for the Surface Pro line, that had been getting better every year. And I want to say this one more time, I have and love my iPad. But I have not problem seen when other devices do more than what I currently have.
Nobody considers laptops with desktop operating systems mobile devices, they are portables.
Your are right. I misunderstood the term "mobile", since in my main language the same term may apply to notebooks.
Because of the usage of the Surface, a hybrid, I feel fine considering
it a portable desktop machine until there is wide adoption of its mobile
functionality, and I have stated thus. But as a tablet split from its
keyboard, the Surface is a weak contender in the mobile environment;
wide development of Universal Apps could certainly change that, but just
having the capability of mobile, doen't make the Surface a player in
mobile.
Since you already know that the Surface Pro is capable of running universal mobile apps, why you still think is not a mobile device? Because is capable of doing more and run desktop applications? If that's the case, maybe that the reason they are categorized as 2 in 1 devices. Which means it has the characteristics of mobile and portable devices. Here is Wikipedia definition for mobile devices,
"A mobile device is a small computing device, typically small
enough to be handheld (and hence also commonly known as a handheld computer or
simply handheld) having a display screen with touch input and/or a miniature
keyboard and weighing less than 2 pounds (0.91 kg).[citation needed] Samsung,
Sony, HTC, LG, Motorola Mobility and Apple are just a few examples of the many
manufacturers that produce these types of devices.
A handheld computing device has an operating system (OS),
and can run various types of application software, known as apps. Most handheld
devices can also be equipped with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC and GPS capabilities
that can allow connections to the Internet and other devices, such as an
automobile or a microphone headset or can be used to provide Location-based services.
A camera or media player feature for video or music files can also be typically
found on these devices along with a stable battery power source such as a
lithium battery. Increasingly mobile devices also contain sensors like
accelerometers, compasses, magnetometers, or gyroscopes, allowing detection of
orientation and motion."
I think this definition matches the Surface Pro.
I believe that the Surface competes today with the Mac
Book and other laptops, and not well with any iPad. You do not agree
with that obviously.
IMO, when two devices compete is based in what users needs, and I agree with you to a some degree. You see the Surface Pro competing with laptops, but other people compare the Surface Pro to the iPad, specially the iPad Pro.
The sales numbers for Mac are nice until you compare it to the Lenovo, which ships close to 3x per quarter over Apple, even with the slowdown. And these number are from Gartner and IDC, since I haven't seen specific number from Apple or Lenovo.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
It doesn't matter. Apple easily is one of the top 5 companies when it comes to computer sales according to both Gartner and IDC. That's the point. It doesn't have to beat Lenovo, it just has to place in the top to be considered relevant. You can't call the Mac a failure when it's one of the top companies in the market in terms of sales. There's a difference between being a success and being #1. To claim otherwise is foolish. Your claim would be like claiming that Mercedes is a failure of a brand because it doesn't out ship Toyota.
Your post is exactly is exactly my point. Sales number don't define quality, among other things.
in terms of the surface, it doesn't even have 1/10th the install base of either apple or Samsung. In terms of adoption, it probably ranks lower than HTC's tablets. The best quarter the surface ever saw, it moved 1 million units. A bad quarter for the iPad is 10 times that. Currently, there are over 250 million iPads that have been sold. 250 million. The surface has been out for over three years. Has it even sold more than 5-10 million units yet? Samsung managed to sell over 40 million units by 2013, so what's Microsoft's excuse? They have none. They are just being Microsoft. They are that nerdy rich kid that has expensive parties that nobody wants to go to because having money and a bouncy house doesn't make you cool instead of socially inept.
Yes, the iPad easily outsells the Surface Pro. Let's see how they sold this quarter when they release their earning numbers tomorrow.
Also, the zune was OK, on paper, but it had the misfortune of being a Microsoft product and with Microsoft products, there's always a catch 22, an interface issue or a corner cut somewhere. There's always a moment where you could almost hear the committee mulling over a checklist of what should be in this product. IIRC they had a crazy DRM scheme with the thing, no real answer to iTunes, the original zune was turd colored, they bet the farm on their silly 'squirt' gimmick and the device itself just wasn't cool or sexy. They had the Zune HD, which was ok, but it just didn't actually DO much that an iPod Touch didn't already do. I Remember that Microsoft was talking about taking Apple down with some sort of music subscription service. Whoops! That didn't work! The Zune was a huge boondoggle. If you want to buy one as a curiosity, by all means, but it lost because it was created under the X-Killer mentality. That's why Microsoft keeps failing.
I never had the chance to use a Zune, but the reviews were very good. And they had a $10.00 subscription plan which include 10 songs per month, DRM free for the user. If you ask me, that's far better than any Apple offering at the time, and maybe even better than Apple Music today. Looks like there were ahead of time. This is an example on how a good product fails. Too bad.
instead of making a good laptop, Microsoft wants to make a MacBook-Killer (surface pro and surface book). All complete with some shady advertising tactics and claims
I saw the article, and it showed how applications optimised for GPU run faster than in the Macbook Pro 13. IMO, MS did the right thing of giving the option to add a GPU, while Apple decided to gave the option only to the Macbook Pro 15". Hope they change their mind for the next gen Macbook Pro 13".
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices.
Remember the 2010 CES announcement that ballmer gave? Microsoft just slapped some slate PC's together because they knew (just like everyone else) that Apple will likely be announcing a tablet device the following month and they wanted to beat Apple to the punch. Absolutely zero thought went into those things and the iPad easily embarrassed them in the market.
At leat Balmer is no more in MS. The new CEO has been a very positive change for MS.
If Microsoft just chilled out and kindly stayed in its lane then it wouldn't repeatedly suffer embarrassment in the market. But believe me, Apple users aren't sitting around thinking about what Microsoft is doing day in and day out and you'll usually only hear "get a mac" when you are actually having problems that would probably (at least in the opinion of the observers) be solved by getting a Mac.
I'm not sure todays Microsoft should be embarrassed of themselves. They have a lot of innovation around the Surface Pro and their whole cloud infrastructure, and the new CEO has done a lot of major changes in the short time he has been in the role. And looks like the results have been positive. I'll be more worried about Apple right now, specially after today announcement. iPhone sales flat (still are very strong), and decline in iPads (again. iPad Pro didn't change the trend) and Mac sales. Plus no mention of specific sales for Apple Watch, iPad Pro or Apple TV. And they expect decline in iPhone sales for the next quarter. I'm not saying that Apple is doomed, but they should not take these stats lightly.
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices.
At the start of the video, the guy explains that he chose the MBP 15" because it is much closer in price to the Surface Book (and not that much bigger overall). MBP is actually $200 less too. Even though the MBP 13" is closer size-wise, it is so much less expensive, it would not seem to be a fair comparison.
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices.
At the start of the video, the guy explains that he chose the MBP 15" because it is much closer in price to the Surface Book (and not that much bigger overall). MBP is actually $200 less too. Even though the MBP 13" is closer size-wise, it is so much less expensive, it would not seem to be a fair comparison.
Based in the dimensions, which is a very common way to categorise devices, the Macbook Pro 13" is the most similar device from Apple. But when you add a detachable touchscreen, GPU and a stylus, then it's easy to see why it's more expensive. IMO, comparing it to the Macbook Pro 15", a device that is larger and heavier, is not right. Looking at whole picture, there is no device from Apple that compare feature by feature to the Surface Book.
It doesn't matter. Apple easily is one of the top 5 companies when it comes to computer sales according to both Gartner and IDC. That's the point. It doesn't have to beat Lenovo, it just has to place in the top to be considered relevant. You can't call the Mac a failure when it's one of the top companies in the market in terms of sales. There's a difference between being a success and being #1. To claim otherwise is foolish. Your claim would be like claiming that Mercedes is a failure of a brand because it doesn't out ship Toyota.
Your post is exactly is exactly my point. Sales number don't define quality, among other things.
Yes, the iPad easily outsells the Surface Pro. Let's see how they sold this quarter when they release their earning numbers tomorrow.
I never had the chance to use a Zune, but the reviews were very good. And they had a $10.00 subscription plan which include 10 songs per month, DRM free for the user. If you ask me, that's far better than any Apple offering at the time, and maybe even better than Apple Music today. Looks like there were ahead of time. This is an example on how a good product fails. Too bad.
I saw the article, and it showed how applications optimised for GPU run faster than in the Macbook Pro 13. IMO, MS did the right thing of giving the option to add a GPU, while Apple decided to gave the option only to the Macbook Pro 15". Hope they change their mind for the next gen Macbook Pro 13".
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices. At leat Balmer is no more in MS. The new CEO has been a very positive change for MS.
I'm not sure todays Microsoft should be embarrassed of themselves. They have a lot of innovation around the Surface Pro and their whole cloud infrastructure, and the new CEO has done a lot of major changes in the short time he has been in the role. And looks like the results have been positive. I'll be more worried about Apple right now, specially after today announcement. iPhone sales flat (still are very strong), and decline in iPads (again. iPad Pro didn't change the trend) and Mac sales. Plus no mention of specific sales for Apple Watch, iPad Pro or Apple TV. And they expect decline in iPhone sales for the next quarter. I'm not saying that Apple is doomed, but they should not take these stats lightly.
1) The iPad pro sold 2 million units since it was launched in November. I don't know how many surfaces sold, but I'm guessing it's not 2 million units based on trends.
2) who wants to pay a subscription to listen to music? I'd rather own my songs and be done with it. I wouldn't say that Microsoft was ahead of its time since there were already music subscription services on the maket before the Zune came out.
3) Microsoft compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a much more expensive non-entry level surface book. How is that a fair or proper comparison? What's next? Showing that women have more upper body strength than men by having Aneta Florczyk arm wrestle Steve Urkel?
4) the surface book is a laptop. Microsoft was the one to compare their surface book to a MacBook FIRST. Microsoft is the one that compares the surface book to MacBooks in their advertising. It doesn't matter that the MacBook Pro is quad core, it costs significantly less than the surface book. You want a comparison to the 13" MacBooks? Ok, tell Microsoft to cut thief price in half for the surface book then.
5) what innovation does Microsoft have around the surface pro? What does the surface pro actually do that has improved upon tablets or 2-in-1's? The idea of a snap-on keyboard isn't new by a long shot. The idea of using an n-trig digital pen for input isn't new either. At least Apple developed their own tech and method to get the Apple pencil to work, what did Microsoft innovate here?
5a) you're complaining about apple's sales but look. Apple's iPhone sales dwarf Windows phone sales by a country mile. iPad sales continue to dwarf surface sales by a country mile. Mac sales are decent for ONE manufacturer. We know that the iPad pro represents 15% of iPad sales. 16.5 million iPads were sold last quarter. That means that 1.9 million iPad pro's sold in its opening quarter. You're talking about being more worried about Apple when Microsoft can't even get any traction? This is bad comedy.
At the start of the video, the guy explains that he chose the MBP 15" because it is much closer in price to the Surface Book (and not that much bigger overall). MBP is actually $200 less too. Even though the MBP 13" is closer size-wise, it is so much less expensive, it would not seem to be a fair comparison.
Based in the dimensions, which is a very common way to categorise devices, the Macbook Pro 13" is the most similar device from Apple. But when you add a detachable touchscreen, GPU and a stylus, then it's easy to see why it's more expensive. IMO, comparing it to the Macbook Pro 15", a device that is larger and heavier, is not right. Looking at whole picture, there is no device from Apple that compare feature by feature to the Surface Book.
Except for the fact that there is a HUGE price difference between the 13" mbp that they used in their comparison and the surface book that they compared to it. It costs $800 more and it was only faster in one (1) category. In every other category, the speeds were similar.
Then look at what happened when the top of the line surface book was compared to the top of the line MacBook. The surface book wound up spitting gravel.
i find it interesting that, when Microsoft is the more expensive one, that suddenly form factor is important now. There have been all-in-one PC's with touch screens for ages now. Does having a touchscreen make any of them a better product or bargain than buying an imac? Nope.
Microsoft said it was twice as fast as the MacBook Pro. They lied.
Your post is exactly is exactly my point. Sales number don't define quality, among other things.
Yes, the iPad easily outsells the Surface Pro. Let's see how they sold this quarter when they release their earning numbers tomorrow.
I never had the chance to use a Zune, but the reviews were very good. And they had a $10.00 subscription plan which include 10 songs per month, DRM free for the user. If you ask me, that's far better than any Apple offering at the time, and maybe even better than Apple Music today. Looks like there were ahead of time. This is an example on how a good product fails. Too bad.
I saw the article, and it showed how applications optimised for GPU run faster than in the Macbook Pro 13. IMO, MS did the right thing of giving the option to add a GPU, while Apple decided to gave the option only to the Macbook Pro 15". Hope they change their mind for the next gen Macbook Pro 13".
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices. At leat Balmer is no more in MS. The new CEO has been a very positive change for MS.
I'm not sure todays Microsoft should be embarrassed of themselves. They have a lot of innovation around the Surface Pro and their whole cloud infrastructure, and the new CEO has done a lot of major changes in the short time he has been in the role. And looks like the results have been positive. I'll be more worried about Apple right now, specially after today announcement. iPhone sales flat (still are very strong), and decline in iPads (again. iPad Pro didn't change the trend) and Mac sales. Plus no mention of specific sales for Apple Watch, iPad Pro or Apple TV. And they expect decline in iPhone sales for the next quarter. I'm not saying that Apple is doomed, but they should not take these stats lightly.
1) The iPad pro sold 2 million units since it was launched in November. I don't know how many surfaces sold, but I'm guessing it's not 2 million units based on trends.
2) who wants to pay a subscription to listen to music? I'd rather own my songs and be done with it. I wouldn't say that Microsoft was ahead of its time since there were already music subscription services on the maket before the Zune came out.
3) Microsoft compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a much more expensive non-entry level surface book. How is that a fair or proper comparison? What's next? Showing that women have more upper body strength than men by having Aneta Florczyk arm wrestle Steve Urkel?
4) the surface book is a laptop. Microsoft was the one to compare their surface book to a MacBook FIRST. Microsoft is the one that compares the surface book to MacBooks in their advertising. It doesn't matter that the MacBook Pro is quad core, it costs significantly less than the surface book. You want a comparison to the 13" MacBooks? Ok, tell Microsoft to cut thief price in half for the surface book then.
5) what innovation does Microsoft have around the surface pro? What does the surface pro actually do that has improved upon tablets or 2-in-1's? The idea of a snap-on keyboard isn't new by a long shot. The idea of using an n-trig digital pen for input isn't new either. At least Apple developed their own tech and method to get the Apple pencil to work, what did Microsoft innovate here?
5a) you're complaining about apple's sales but look. Apple's iPhone sales dwarf Windows phone sales by a country mile. iPad sales continue to dwarf surface sales by a country mile. Mac sales are decent for ONE manufacturer. We know that the iPad pro represents 15% of iPad sales. 16.5 million iPads were sold last quarter. That means that 1.9 million iPad pro's sold in its opening quarter. You're talking about being more worried about Apple when Microsoft can't even get any traction? This is bad comedy.
1) Neither Apple or MS released official sales numbers for those devices, so I don't know where your numbers came from. IDC released an estimate. If you want to trust them, be my guest.
2) Agree, nobody wants to pay for music, but still there is Spotify, Apple Music and other subscription services with millions of paying customers. It's true, they were not the first, but had the best offer, unlimited music + 10 DRM free songs per month for $10.00. Isn't that better than what Spotify or Apple Music offers? How many DRM free songs per month Spotify or Apple Music includes?
3) Yes, it's true. In that case, there nothing from Apple to compare to the SB with similar dimensions and specs.
4) Yes, MS compare it to the...Macbook Pro 13", not the 15". Since you mention "thief price", have you seen to cost of the under power Macbook? Now we are talking about "thief pricing".
5) Two examples of innovation are the hybrid cooling, which I haven't seen in other device with the dimensions of the SP4 (but maybe I'm wrong). Another thing is the keyboard, which is great when you consider how thin it is. Compare that to the Macbook and iPad Pro keyboard, which are awful.
5a) Yes, I know MS devices are behind iPhone and iPad. And the two strongest Apple devices are not that strong as before. iPad sales have been down quickly in last two years, even with the release of the iPad Pro. iPhone sales were flat for this quarter, plus they already expect lower sales next quarter. If you think MS can't get any traction, then Apple is losing theirs.
Comments
If you read my post, you may see I agree with many of you and @nemoeac points about redundancy. But you have to consider that an arena of that size may already have redundancy for servers and network components, and with all of this, it failed. How do you know what they did, what kind of infrastructure or recovery plan the arena have in place? Do any of you had physical access to the network o have access to the recovery plan documents? I don't think so. And still for some reason, you blame MS from the wifi failure. Can the NFL and MS do more? Of course. But remember that redundancy doesn't means 100% of availability. I means reduce downtime in case of failure, and that's what happen. They went hardwire while they fix the cabling issue that brought down wifi for NE.
All my posts are based on what I heard from the live game and from I have read in different websites. So maybe I'm missing something or just "I don't want to understand reality".
think about it. With the zune, we had people, mostly Apple haters and Microsoft fanboys, championing the device and claiming that it will destroy the iPod because it has X feature, Y advantage or Whatever. However, only a few people actually bought it. If the boasters actually bought it, it would have been successful, but seriously, who's going to do that? no, it's much easier to talk and claim victory. The surface is suffering from the same thing, most of the people championing it, just want to see Apple destroyed by Microsoft. That's not enough to actually put one's money where one's mouth is. The farthest they'll go is to try and convince other people to buy the surface.
A buddy of mine told a coworker of his about my getting an iPad pro and his words were "why didn't he just get a surface?". Meanwhile he doesn't have a tablet at all himself. He just wants *me*, a total stranger, to not buy Apple. Nevermind that I'm well aware of the surface, have used the surface and still don't want the surface. If I make a purchase that he doesn't agree with, then I must not be an informed consumer, in his mind. Meanwhile, no less than four people that I know chose to buy a pro after just watching me use mine. I didn't ask them to buy one and in a couple cases basically said "I don't know if you actually need it". But they bought theirs and are satisfied with their purchases. That's the difference.
I don't take danvm as a troll, but his attempt to spin my statement "As for Surface and the iPad Pro, I'm all for letting the numbers describe the success of each. iPad sales for the previous quarter will be known Tuesday after the stock markets close" is especially weak.
What danvm can't or won't admit, is that iPad is absolutely a product in the mobile space, with all the limitations due to that, but Surface is a desktop product that MS is trying to sell against both the Mac Book line and against the iPad and iPad Pro. danvm is correct that Windows dominates the PC space and OS X is low marketshare, but when you look at mobile, MS isn't even a player with Surface. Maybe that will change with mass adoption of hybrids and success with Surface Phone, but frankly, Apple is going to develop the iPad line faster that Surface will evolve into mobile. The only question for iPad Pro's success is how many pro apps are developed for the iPad Pro.
This is a version one product we're talking about, not a fourth generation Surface, so it won't be hard to extrapolate how good the iPad Pro will be over the next couple of generations, and how the Pencil might evolve.
Indeed, I've used the surface many times and have a few friends that have one. Of course, they aren't very much into technology and have little to no brand loyalty. I have one associate that owns an iPad mini, a surface pro 3 and a 21" Wacom cintiq, for instance.
for me, it was a matter of already being deeply entrenched in the iOS ecosystem, needing to upgrade and the fact that the pencil was announced. After that, I knew exactly what I was going to buy. Everything else is just gravy.
"Reals" would wait this]l actual sales figures come out. Even Paul Thurott, mr Microsoft fan himself, lambasted the winbeta article as useless fluff.
Hell, the Apple watch will probably do $8 B for its first year alone.
If the 1-to-1 comparison is going to be made, I suppose it has to be to a similar device, so it can't be an iPad. Based in specs, it's more similar to the Macbook and the Macbook Air 11". Too bad Apple, neither MS release specific numbers for those devices, so a comparison can be made.
From what I read, Zune was a great device. I never had the chance to use one, since I was an iPod user, and still have my 30GB somewhere. This is one of the device I'll add to my list of great products that failed.
That championing attitude you mention was in both sides, for Zune and iPod, and attitude that still today with fanboys in both sides, while adding Google to the list.
And the experience of someone thinking you were not an informed consumer because you went for the iPad Pro, can apply to someone considering Surface Pro or other devices. There are that kind of people in both sides, Apple and MS.
Logical fallacy; Apple makes 50% of the profit in the PC industry on it's meager share .
http://www.dailytech.com/Lenovo+Once+Again+The+Top+Global+PC+Maker+Apple+Takes+50+of+PC+Profits/article36693.htm
I don't know where you had the idea that I don't think that the iPad is a mobile device. Tablets, smartphones and notebooks are mobile devices. You definition of Surface as a desktop product that doesn't makes sense. The Surface Pro is portable device, which is capable run universal app that are touch optimized and have a keyboard to use as a notebook. Doesn't that qualifies as a mobile device?
And you are saying that iPad Pro will evolve faster. But based in what I have seen, that's no necessarily true. You had to wait close to 5 years for a proper stylus, limited side by side apps and multitasking, and still there is no multiuser profiles a proper file system or support for pointing devices for when it's used vertically with the keyboard. All of this was included with Surface Pro since day one.
It's clear that iPad Pro will get better, as with previous iPads. But the same can be said for the Surface Pro line, that had been getting better every year. And I want to say this one more time, I have and love my iPad. But I have not problem seen when other devices do more than what I currently have.Because of the usage of the Surface, a hybrid, I feel fine considering it a portable desktop machine until there is wide adoption of its mobile functionality, and I have stated thus. But as a tablet split from its keyboard, the Surface is a weak contender in the mobile environment; wide development of Universal Apps could certainly change that, but just having the capability of mobile, doen't make the Surface a player in mobile.
I believe that the Surface competes today with the Mac Book and other laptops, and not well with any iPad. You do not agree with that obviously.
in terms of the surface, it doesn't even have 1/10th the install base of either apple or Samsung. In terms of adoption, it probably ranks lower than HTC's tablets. The best quarter the surface ever saw, it moved 1 million units. A bad quarter for the iPad is 10 times that. Currently, there are over 250 million iPads that have been sold. 250 million. The surface has been out for over three years. Has it even sold more than 5-10 million units yet? Samsung managed to sell over 40 million units by 2013, so what's Microsoft's excuse? They have none. They are just being Microsoft. They are that nerdy rich kid that has expensive parties that nobody wants to go to because having money and a bouncy house doesn't make you cool instead of socially inept.
Also, the zune was OK, on paper, but it had the misfortune of being a Microsoft product and with Microsoft products, there's always a catch 22, an interface issue or a corner cut somewhere. There's always a moment where you could almost hear the committee mulling over a checklist of what should be in this product. IIRC they had a crazy DRM scheme with the thing, no real answer to iTunes, the original zune was turd colored, they bet the farm on their silly 'squirt' gimmick and the device itself just wasn't cool or sexy. They had the Zune HD, which was ok, but it just didn't actually DO much that an iPod Touch didn't already do. I Remember that Microsoft was talking about taking Apple down with some sort of music subscription service. Whoops! That didn't work! The Zune was a huge boondoggle. If you want to buy one as a curiosity, by all means, but it lost because it was created under the X-Killer mentality. That's why Microsoft keeps failing.
instead of making a good laptop, Microsoft wants to make a MacBook-Killer (surface pro and surface book). All complete with some shady advertising tactics and claims
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2995599/laptop-computers/surface-book-vs-macbook-pro-it-isnt-twice-as-fast-its-three-times-as-fast.html
but look at what happens when called to task
Remember the 2010 CES announcement that ballmer gave? Microsoft just slapped some slate PC's together because they knew (just like everyone else) that Apple will likely be announcing a tablet device the following month and they wanted to beat Apple to the punch. Absolutely zero thought went into those things and the iPad easily embarrassed them in the market.
If Microsoft just chilled out and kindly stayed in its lane then it wouldn't repeatedly suffer embarrassment in the market. But believe me, Apple users aren't sitting around thinking about what Microsoft is doing day in and day out and you'll usually only hear "get a mac" when you are actually having problems that would probably (at least in the opinion of the observers) be solved by getting a Mac.
Since you already know that the Surface Pro is capable of running universal mobile apps, why you still think is not a mobile device? Because is capable of doing more and run desktop applications? If that's the case, maybe that the reason they are categorized as 2 in 1 devices. Which means it has the characteristics of mobile and portable devices. Here is Wikipedia definition for mobile devices,
"A mobile device is a small computing device, typically small enough to be handheld (and hence also commonly known as a handheld computer or simply handheld) having a display screen with touch input and/or a miniature keyboard and weighing less than 2 pounds (0.91 kg).[citation needed] Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG, Motorola Mobility and Apple are just a few examples of the many manufacturers that produce these types of devices.
A handheld computing device has an operating system (OS), and can run various types of application software, known as apps. Most handheld devices can also be equipped with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC and GPS capabilities that can allow connections to the Internet and other devices, such as an automobile or a microphone headset or can be used to provide Location-based services. A camera or media player feature for video or music files can also be typically found on these devices along with a stable battery power source such as a lithium battery. Increasingly mobile devices also contain sensors like accelerometers, compasses, magnetometers, or gyroscopes, allowing detection of orientation and motion."
I think this definition matches the Surface Pro.
IMO, when two devices compete is based in what users needs, and I agree with you to a some degree. You see the Surface Pro competing with laptops, but other people compare the Surface Pro to the iPad, specially the iPad Pro.
Yes, the iPad easily outsells the Surface Pro. Let's see how they sold this quarter when they release their earning numbers tomorrow.
I never had the chance to use a Zune, but the reviews were very good. And they had a $10.00 subscription plan which include 10 songs per month, DRM free for the user. If you ask me, that's far better than any Apple offering at the time, and maybe even better than Apple Music today. Looks like there were ahead of time. This is an example on how a good product fails. Too bad.
I saw the article, and it showed how applications optimised for GPU run faster than in the Macbook Pro 13. IMO, MS did the right thing of giving the option to add a GPU, while Apple decided to gave the option only to the Macbook Pro 15". Hope they change their mind for the next gen Macbook Pro 13".
About the video, he compare the Surface Book to a 15" notebook. Aren't those two devices in different categories? The Macbook Pro is quad core, have a larger screen, is heavier and larger, and less battery life. IMO, the right comparison is with the Macbook Pro 13", since they are similar devices.
At leat Balmer is no more in MS. The new CEO has been a very positive change for MS.
I'm not sure todays Microsoft should be embarrassed of themselves. They have a lot of innovation around the Surface Pro and their whole cloud infrastructure, and the new CEO has done a lot of major changes in the short time he has been in the role. And looks like the results have been positive. I'll be more worried about Apple right now, specially after today announcement. iPhone sales flat (still are very strong), and decline in iPads (again. iPad Pro didn't change the trend) and Mac sales. Plus no mention of specific sales for Apple Watch, iPad Pro or Apple TV. And they expect decline in iPhone sales for the next quarter. I'm not saying that Apple is doomed, but they should not take these stats lightly.
2) who wants to pay a subscription to listen to music? I'd rather own my songs and be done with it. I wouldn't say that Microsoft was ahead of its time since there were already music subscription services on the maket before the Zune came out.
3) Microsoft compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a much more expensive non-entry level surface book. How is that a fair or proper comparison? What's next? Showing that women have more upper body strength than men by having Aneta Florczyk arm wrestle Steve Urkel?
4) the surface book is a laptop. Microsoft was the one to compare their surface book to a MacBook FIRST. Microsoft is the one that compares the surface book to MacBooks in their advertising. It doesn't matter that the MacBook Pro is quad core, it costs significantly less than the surface book. You want a comparison to the 13" MacBooks? Ok, tell Microsoft to cut thief price in half for the surface book then.
5) what innovation does Microsoft have around the surface pro? What does the surface pro actually do that has improved upon tablets or 2-in-1's? The idea of a snap-on keyboard isn't new by a long shot. The idea of using an n-trig digital pen for input isn't new either. At least Apple developed their own tech and method to get the Apple pencil to work, what did Microsoft innovate here?
5a) you're complaining about apple's sales but look. Apple's iPhone sales dwarf Windows phone sales by a country mile. iPad sales continue to dwarf surface sales by a country mile. Mac sales are decent for ONE manufacturer. We know that the iPad pro represents 15% of iPad sales. 16.5 million iPads were sold last quarter. That means that 1.9 million iPad pro's sold in its opening quarter. You're talking about being more worried about Apple when Microsoft can't even get any traction? This is bad comedy.
Then look at what happened when the top of the line surface book was compared to the top of the line MacBook. The surface book wound up spitting gravel.
i find it interesting that, when Microsoft is the more expensive one, that suddenly form factor is important now. There have been all-in-one PC's with touch screens for ages now. Does having a touchscreen make any of them a better product or bargain than buying an imac? Nope.
Microsoft said it was twice as fast as the MacBook Pro. They lied.
2) Agree, nobody wants to pay for music, but still there is Spotify, Apple Music and other subscription services with millions of paying customers. It's true, they were not the first, but had the best offer, unlimited music + 10 DRM free songs per month for $10.00. Isn't that better than what Spotify or Apple Music offers? How many DRM free songs per month Spotify or Apple Music includes?
3) Yes, it's true. In that case, there nothing from Apple to compare to the SB with similar dimensions and specs.
4) Yes, MS compare it to the...Macbook Pro 13", not the 15". Since you mention "thief price", have you seen to cost of the under power Macbook? Now we are talking about "thief pricing".
5) Two examples of innovation are the hybrid cooling, which I haven't seen in other device with the dimensions of the SP4 (but maybe I'm wrong). Another thing is the keyboard, which is great when you consider how thin it is. Compare that to the Macbook and iPad Pro keyboard, which are awful.
5a) Yes, I know MS devices are behind iPhone and iPad. And the two strongest Apple devices are not that strong as before. iPad sales have been down quickly in last two years, even with the release of the iPad Pro. iPhone sales were flat for this quarter, plus they already expect lower sales next quarter. If you think MS can't get any traction, then Apple is losing theirs.