Apple's iPad Pro outsold Microsoft's entire Surface lineup over the holidays

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 62
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    Besides Paul Thurrott, the penultimate Microsoft apologist has some pretty harsh words for the Surface line of machines. 

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64095/welcome-to-surfacegate
    hard to take that stooge Thurrot seriously, since he rehashes the iphone 4 antenna story but manages to get it all wrong. if hed actually watched the media event he has a pic of, hed know Jobs published the AT&T data on dropped calls for the 4 -- and it proved there was no issue. which is why apple didnt recall it and in fact continued to sell the 4 unchanged for years. i still have one and friend just used it as a temp phone without issue. as i did when it was new.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 42 of 62
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,998member
    Apple's entire iPad Pro lineup sold more than Microsoft's entire Surface lineup.

    And I would hope so!
  • Reply 43 of 62
    Rayz2016 said:
    Logitech have been flogging detachable iPad keyboards since before the Surface appeared. I think the popularity of the iPad Pro is due to something else: the massive screen or the pencil. 
    The extra real estate is an added benefit especially when using split screen, however the pencil is the biggest reason I picked one up.  I'm not using the iPad Pro with a physical keyboard, but can see why some would want one - especially if they were trying to use the iPad Pro instead of a laptop, but, I just switch to a Macbook Pro if I need to use a keyboard (or the 12" Macbook when I'm on the road).
    justadcomics
  • Reply 44 of 62
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,472member
    ...
    Keep the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines. I will no longer purchase a machine with an x86 CPU. 
    ...

    What CPU does the MacBook and MacBook Pro use again??  Or are you saying you won't even use MacBooks or Pros either?
    edited February 2016 bkkcanuck
  • Reply 45 of 62
    This was an ESTIMATE from the IDC. There's nothing to back it up, and considering Apple didn't announce sales of the product, we probably will never know!
  • Reply 46 of 62
    super6646 said:
    This was an ESTIMATE from the IDC. There's nothing to back it up, and considering Apple didn't announce sales of the product, we probably will never know!
    The simple fact is that it would not take much to beat the entire Surface line.  Microsoft had $1.3 billion in revenue from the ENTIRE surface line, and unlike Apple that is recorded from everything that is manufactured and out the door - regardless of whether they were actually bought.  That number includes both Surface products and attachments.  If you simply estimate the blended average price for one device, you will only get at most between 1 and 2 million units.  As far as it being only an estimate - they are based on real numbers and extrapolated out based on statistics... which is why it is an estimate... But then most numbers before Apple reports are estimates and they are usually pretty close to the mark (+/- 10%) -- probably because they are based in part on real numbers.  
    williamlondonchia
  • Reply 47 of 62
    bkkcanuck said:
    super6646 said:
    This was an ESTIMATE from the IDC. There's nothing to back it up, and considering Apple didn't announce sales of the product, we probably will never know!
    The simple fact is that it would not take much to beat the entire Surface line.  Microsoft had $1.3 billion in revenue from the ENTIRE surface line, and unlike Apple that is recorded from everything that is manufactured and out the door - regardless of whether they were actually bought.  That number includes both Surface products and attachments.  If you simply estimate the blended average price for one device, you will only get at most between 1 and 2 million units.  As far as it being only an estimate - they are based on real numbers and extrapolated out based on statistics... which is why it is an estimate... But then most numbers before Apple reports are estimates and they are usually pretty close to the mark (+/- 10%) -- probably because they are based in part on real numbers.  
    I'm not saying that the surface is wildely successful, but we have absolutely nothing to show for iPad Pro numbers. The reason we can't produce estimate's is because we don't know the total revenue of the product. The IDC has also been known to be shaky in terms of numbers, so I'd take this with a grain of salt.
  • Reply 48 of 62
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,307member
    I'm starting to see more Surface Pros being used as small notebook replacements for folks who think they need extreme portability in a WinPC but don't realize the cost that comes along with it. Until I can actually use one of those things in my lap they are of no interest to me. C'mon Microsoft, just build a straight-up laptop and get beyond this silly flappy keyboard crap. "Think Different" doesn't mean "Think Silly." Beyond the compromised design and usability and all the other fun stuff that comes with Windows, the number of reported crashes and lockups from Surface Pro users seems to be noticeably higher than with even commodity Dell and Lenovo PCs. They seem like rather temperamental little beasts judging from the bitch-o-meter that I see and hear with current adopters.  
    williamlondonliquidmark
  • Reply 49 of 62
    super6646 said:
    bkkcanuck said:
    The simple fact is that it would not take much to beat the entire Surface line.  Microsoft had $1.3 billion in revenue from the ENTIRE surface line, and unlike Apple that is recorded from everything that is manufactured and out the door - regardless of whether they were actually bought.  That number includes both Surface products and attachments.  If you simply estimate the blended average price for one device, you will only get at most between 1 and 2 million units.  As far as it being only an estimate - they are based on real numbers and extrapolated out based on statistics... which is why it is an estimate... But then most numbers before Apple reports are estimates and they are usually pretty close to the mark (+/- 10%) -- probably because they are based in part on real numbers.  
    I'm not saying that the surface is wildely successful, but we have absolutely nothing to show for iPad Pro numbers. The reason we can't produce estimate's is because we don't know the total revenue of the product. The IDC has also been known to be shaky in terms of numbers, so I'd take this with a grain of salt.
    The IDC report has the iPad Pro outselling all of the surface line by 20%....  Are you saying that IDC have an error rate of more than 20% on average?  The Surface 2/1 line was out for the entire quarter (even if some of the new products like Surface Pro 4 came out 30% into the quarter).  The iPad Pro was out in November -- constrained to begin with (unconstrained at the end) -- and there were many that were holding off the purchase until they could get both the pencil and iPad Pro at the same time (I know locally the tablet is available at the stores but none of the accessories are available to play with).  If you had asked me a year ago whether a theoretical iPad Pro would have much of a market and I would have laughed... but now that I see it, it does look like an interesting product.  

    It is interesting that the Surface Pro which was supposedly a super successful product - was probably outsold by what is considered to be a very niche product just entering the market.  
    liquidmarkwilliamlondonicoco3
  • Reply 50 of 62
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    dewme said:
    I'm starting to see more Surface Pros being used as small notebook replacements for folks who think they need extreme portability in a WinPC but don't realize the cost that comes along with it. Until I can actually use one of those things in my lap they are of no interest to me. C'mon Microsoft, just build a straight-up laptop and get beyond this silly flappy keyboard crap. "Think Different" doesn't mean "Think Silly." Beyond the compromised design and usability and all the other fun stuff that comes with Windows, the number of reported crashes and lockups from Surface Pro users seems to be noticeably higher than with even commodity Dell and Lenovo PCs. They seem like rather temperamental little beasts judging from the bitch-o-meter that I see and hear with current adopters.  
    I think someone could use a Surface Book on their lap:


  • Reply 51 of 62
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Why would Microsoft users buy Surface Pros?  They are competing against many cheaper Windows 10 tablets.  This is like the Google Nexus smartphone.  It is competing against many cheaper Android smartphones. 
    liquidmark
  • Reply 52 of 62
    I love the iPad Pro. I got it for storing and reading music with the ForScore app, bluetooth foot pedal and Apple Pencil. Works great! But I find that I also love it as a tablet for browsing the web or watching movies. The large screen is fantastic, and the form factor isn't too large to be comfortable, as I thought it might be.

    I'd like to see app designers take full advantage of the large screen size. Legacy apps designed for smaller iPads look dorky on the iPad Pro.

    I haven't replaced my Macbook with the iPad Pro, and I don't expect to do that. There are too many situations where the laptop is perfect and the tablet is a bit off, mostly because of the software and operating system usability gaps, not the hardware itself. It's getting closer, but not quite there yet.
    cyberzombie
  • Reply 53 of 62
    This doesn't make any sense given what Apple reported

    With the iPad Pro price levels at $800, $950 and $1080, lets say at 1/3 of each type, the average price is $933. If Apple sold 2m iPad Pros, that would equal revenue of $1.9bn. Total iPad revenue in the quarter was $7.1bn. So none Pro revenue was $5.2bn and none Pro units were 14.1m units. That implies an average selling price of $369, compared to an average selling price of $435 over the past 8 quarters, a 15% decline.

    So either Apple has been offering significant discounts off its non-Pro iPads (which I haven't really seen any evidence of) or the IDC report is very wrong and nowhere near 2m iPad Pros were sold.
  • Reply 54 of 62
    This doesn't make any sense given what Apple reported

    With the iPad Pro price levels at $800, $950 and $1080, lets say at 1/3 of each type, the average price is $933. If Apple sold 2m iPad Pros, that would equal revenue of $1.9bn. Total iPad revenue in the quarter was $7.1bn. So none Pro revenue was $5.2bn and none Pro units were 14.1m units. That implies an average selling price of $369, compared to an average selling price of $435 over the past 8 quarters, a 15% decline.

    So either Apple has been offering significant discounts off its non-Pro iPads (which I haven't really seen any evidence of) or the IDC report is very wrong and nowhere near 2m iPad Pros were sold.
    Just a guess, the price levels of $800, etc.  would not be a direct translation into revenue from iPads would it not?  What is the wholesale price of those? (maybe 70%?? I don't know).  If an iPad is sold at $800, would not dealer not receive revenue from the sale, and Apple receive a net amount?  The Apple store would likely have to treat it the same but not compete on price, so revenue to the apple store would be a portion, and revenue from iPad would be the net amount (maybe 70%).
  • Reply 55 of 62
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    6 million Microsoft Surface tablets reportedly shipped in 2015 Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 00:50, by Alan F. 6 million Microsoft Surface tablets reportedly shipped in 2015 According to manufacturers in the Taiwan-based supply chain, Microsoft shipped a total of 6 million Surface tablets in 2015. That topped expectations by a brisk 50%. Fourth quarter shipments amounted to 2.5 million units. During that quarter, which expired at the end of December, Surface shipments rose 29% year-over-year thanks to the new Surface Pro 4 and the Surface Book.

    In head-to head combat, during the fourth-quarter it is believed that the new 12.9-inch Apple iPad Pro sold 2 million units, topping the 1.6 million Surface Pro 4 slabs that were reportedly rung up in the three month. For the quarter, Apple had a leading 24.5% share of the global tablet market. The company sold 16.1 million units for the three month period, down nearly 25% from the previous year. Microsoft was not included in the top five for the quarter or for the year.
    http://www.phonearena.com/news/6-million-Microsoft-Surface-tablets-reportedly-shipped-in-2015_id77960

    edited February 2016
  • Reply 56 of 62
    entropys said:
    Well at my work (2000 FTEs) the IT department is trying to force us off iPads and dell laptops to surface pros only. Because Microsoft is best apparently, hot design and other lameness. I actually had to go to the IT committee to argue the case for an iPad deployment even though up until recently it was quite OK. It as only because there is no GPS/LTE in SPs that won the day. The IT head is on a jihad against Apple.

    My ideal work config within current ITD constraints: iPad Air and a dell xps hooked up to a big monitor.  Their ideal? An SP hooked up to a big monitor.  My set up is cheaper, a broader range of functionality and has better battery life. The IT retaliation is to profile as much functionality out of the iPad as they can get away with.
    Looks like you're going to have to get your IT guy fired...or start looking for another job. ;)
  • Reply 57 of 62
    entropys said:
    Well at my work (2000 FTEs) the IT department is trying to force us off iPads and dell laptops to surface pros only. Because Microsoft is best apparently, hot design and other lameness. I actually had to go to the IT committee to argue the case for an iPad deployment even though up until recently it was quite OK. It as only because there is no GPS/LTE in SPs that won the day. The IT head is on a jihad against Apple.

    My ideal work config within current ITD constraints: iPad Air and a dell xps hooked up to a big monitor.  Their ideal? An SP hooked up to a big monitor.  My set up is cheaper, a broader range of functionality and has better battery life. The IT retaliation is to profile as much functionality out of the iPad as they can get away with.
    Looks like you're going to have to get your IT guy fired...or start looking for another job. ;)
    Looks like you have to start some sort of asymmetrical warfare....  Have any issue, big or small by anyone documented and escalated.


  • Reply 58 of 62
    Maybe draw up a proposal to outsource network management to IBM :open_mouth: 

  • Reply 59 of 62

    cnocbui said:
    6 million Microsoft Surface tablets reportedly shipped in 2015 Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 00:50, by Alan F. 6 million Microsoft Surface tablets reportedly shipped in 2015 According to manufacturers in the Taiwan-based supply chain, Microsoft shipped a total of 6 million Surface tablets in 2015. That topped expectations by a brisk 50%. Fourth quarter shipments amounted to 2.5 million units. During that quarter, which expired at the end of December, Surface shipments rose 29% year-over-year thanks to the new Surface Pro 4 and the Surface Book.

    In head-to head combat, during the fourth-quarter it is believed that the new 12.9-inch Apple iPad Pro sold 2 million units, topping the 1.6 million Surface Pro 4 slabs that were reportedly rung up in the three month. For the quarter, Apple had a leading 24.5% share of the global tablet market. The company sold 16.1 million units for the three month period, down nearly 25% from the previous year. Microsoft was not included in the top five for the quarter or for the year.
    http://www.phonearena.com/news/6-million-Microsoft-Surface-tablets-reportedly-shipped-in-2015_id77960

    Of that 6 million, probably a million units are somewhere along the supply chain and not in people's hands.  (In addition to all the free placements :open_mouth: )

    6 million / 4 quarters = 1.5 million per quarter on average - seems about right.  (6 million is not just tablets, but the entire Surface line).


    williamlondon
  • Reply 60 of 62
    bkkcanuck said:
    This doesn't make any sense given what Apple reported

    With the iPad Pro price levels at $800, $950 and $1080, lets say at 1/3 of each type, the average price is $933. If Apple sold 2m iPad Pros, that would equal revenue of $1.9bn. Total iPad revenue in the quarter was $7.1bn. So none Pro revenue was $5.2bn and none Pro units were 14.1m units. That implies an average selling price of $369, compared to an average selling price of $435 over the past 8 quarters, a 15% decline.

    So either Apple has been offering significant discounts off its non-Pro iPads (which I haven't really seen any evidence of) or the IDC report is very wrong and nowhere near 2m iPad Pros were sold.
    Just a guess, the price levels of $800, etc.  would not be a direct translation into revenue from iPads would it not?  What is the wholesale price of those? (maybe 70%?? I don't know).  If an iPad is sold at $800, would not dealer not receive revenue from the sale, and Apple receive a net amount?  The Apple store would likely have to treat it the same but not compete on price, so revenue to the apple store would be a portion, and revenue from iPad would be the net amount (maybe 70%).
    I thought about this but don't believe it would have a significant impact.
    Firstly, from what I understand the margins on Apple products for retailers are tiny, I have read reports that they are 3%-5%, so wholesale price is not far from retail. Retailers then make margin pushing overpriced covers, keyboards etc.
    Secondly, most iPad Pro sales would be made at Apple stores given the limited availability initially and they would record it at full retail price as retail is not reported as a separate item.

    No, I still think something is wrong with the report, however I have seen reports now that there was a fair amount of discounting on iPads in some markets before Christmas.

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