Steve Jobs is highest paid executive...

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  • Reply 21 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by MafiaMac:

    <strong>



    1. He started the company in 1976.



    2. He persuaded Woz to make money out of his obsession.



    3. He lead the Macintosh team in the right direction.



    4. He was fired from the company in 1985 and came back in 1996.



    5. He helped to save Apple from failure with the introduction of the iMac.



    6. 6 Million units later and 5 years the iMac is the best selling PC of all time.



    7. He turned Apple's fortunes around in the biggest corporate comeback in history.



    8. HE WORKS TWO JOBS.

    ---------------------------------------

    If Steve doesnt deserve that kind of money I dont know who does. He is a pioneer in business with a vision for the future.



    [ 09-26-2002: Message edited by: MafiaMac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'm not saying that Jobs isn't deserving of immense praise and compensation. I think the guy is a genius, a real hero, and I'd be the first one to give him credit for revitalizing Apple since he returned. If I were a female I'd want to shag him, but as a male I'd settle for his daughter



    All these things you say about Jobs are true, he is an extremely motivated, dedicated, creative genius. I wish I was more like him, but alas I'm more generation X loser than hippy-turned-yuppie success.



    My point is only that Jobs, like all other American executives, is overpaid. I compared his pay to that of the average Apple employee to make this point. If you compare the ratio of executive pay to average employee pay over the past 50 years in America, it becomes evident that executives are grossly overpaid today. As the divide between the upper and middle classes has grown in this country, so has the disparity between executive and employee salaries. At the very heart of this divide is the implicit idea that somehow the executives are WORTH more than the employees, that their contribution to the company is more valuable than that of the employees. But time and time again it is proven that the employees make a company what it is, and that an executive can "lead a horse to water, but can't force it to drink" . Or something like that. I'm too tired to discuss this, so let's just agree that Steve Jobs is a genius and leave it at that for now, ok?
  • Reply 22 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>



    I'm not saying that Jobs isn't deserving of immense praise and compensation. I think the guy is a genius, a real hero, and I'd be the first one to give him credit for revitalizing Apple since he returned. If I were a female I'd want to shag him, but as a male I'd settle for his daughter



    All these things you say about Jobs are true, he is an extremely motivated, dedicated, creative genius. I wish I was more like him, but alas I'm more generation X loser than hippy-turned-yuppie success.



    My point is only that Jobs, like all other American executives, is overpaid. I compared his pay to that of the average Apple employee to make this point. If you compare the ratio of executive pay to average employee pay over the past 50 years in America, it becomes evident that executives are grossly overpaid today. As the divide between the upper and middle classes has grown in this country, so has the disparity between executive and employee salaries. At the very heart of this divide is the implicit idea that somehow the executives are WORTH more than the employees, that their contribution to the company is more valuable than that of the employees. But time and time again it is proven that the employees make a company what it is, and that an executive can "lead a horse to water, but can't force it to drink" . Or something like that. I'm too tired to discuss this, so let's just agree that Steve Jobs is a genius and leave it at that for now, ok?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    America is a capitalist system not a socialist/communist one.
  • Reply 23 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by MafiaMac:

    <strong>Steve Jobs definately did not come from a rich family, in fact, he was adopted.</strong><hr></blockquote> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 24 of 38
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    What does Jobs do with his money?

    I mean with that kind of money you'd think he'd donate some to charity.



    While we all love to bash Gates, you must admit he's pretty good when it comes to charity (although I think he could still give more away).



    Is there a cause that's near and dear to Jobs' heart?
  • Reply 25 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Nobody is worth that much money. Nobody.



    It's so typically American to pay some executive over 100 times the pay of the average worker at a company. All this does is sow resentment and feelings of inequality...and of course it goes towards making executives more arrogant, greedy, and corrupt.



    Assuming that the average Apple employee has an annual salary of $100,000 (LOL!), this makes Jobs' salary of $43,511,534 435 fold greater than this average.



    Of course for capitalism to work, there must be incentive to work harder, more creatively, and more efficiently. Executives deserve to get paid more than the average worker at a company. But 435 fold more? What makes Steve Jobs 435 times more valuable than the "average" Apple employee? What makes him 435 times a better human? What makes his thoughts 435 times more valuable?



    Very little, IMO. His pay is so far out of touch with the reality of the average Apple employee that they don't even see him as being payed, or rewarded, on the same scale that they are. The average employee has promotions, raises, and bonuses to look forward to, but no matter what sort of work they do they will never even approach the pay of Steve Jobs. That's because Jobs' pay isn't about his work, it's about his social caste.



    Executive pay in America is about concrete social castes. It's about sustaining the upper class's insulation from the upper middle class. it's about maintaining a culture. Executive pay has NOTHING to do with the amount or quality of work, witness the fat paychecks and bonuses of executives who have run their businesses into the ground for proof. Example: George Dubya Bush mismanaged his businesses to become a millionaire--and he never could have done this without being born into an upper class family. It always comes back to that social caste system in America.



    I'll give Steve Jobs this much: He didn't come from an upper class family as far as I know. He is one of the lucky few who have leap-frogged up in class, up to the upper class caste. He deserves credit for this, but still he's overpaid and there's no excuses.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I agree with your thesis e.g. first sentence but find your argument e.g social caste system of America lacking. Job's pay, like those of most overpaid executives, is approved by the board e.g. people who are like the executives themselves. The desire of those in power to protect and promote those like them is present as much in capitalistic America as in, say, socialist China.



    To extend this argument further, who determines why one actor gets $20 million and another gets scale? Does the $20 million actor act 200,000 times better than the scale actor? Does filet mignon taste 10 times better than chuck?



    Don't get me wrong, I think he is overpaid too, but to conclude this is a result of American culture is, to put it lightly, is gross simplification.
  • Reply 26 of 38
    Steve Jobs is overpaid.



    You must separate two thinks : it's normal to become incredibily rich if you made your own companie and that companies become a giant.

    It's not normal that is salary or equivalent is so high representating a quarter of the benefit of the year of Apple. If i own some Apple's action i won't be happy with that. Having so much high salaries bring bad feeling among the workers of Apple, especially in bad times. As long the situation is OK everything is fine, but in case of trouble, difficult to ask to fire people because they are costing too much.
  • Reply 27 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Nobody is worth that much money. Nobody.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Incorrect. We don't live in a socialist sh*thole of a nation where a political party decides how much people are worth. If Steve is paid that much, clearly the people that matter think he's worth it.



    [quote]

    You must separate two thinks : it's normal to become incredibily rich if you made your own companie and that companies become a giant.

    It's not normal that is salary or equivalent is so high representating a quarter of the benefit of the year of Apple. If i own some Apple's action i won't be happy with that. Having so much high salaries bring bad feeling among the workers of Apple, especially in bad times. As long the situation is OK everything is fine, but in case of trouble, difficult to ask to fire people because they are costing too much.

    <hr></blockquote>



    You really have no idea. Studies have shown that a highly paid, flashy boss has a greater ability at motivating his employees. It's something for them to look forward to.



    Again, in certain coercive nations, no one has anything to look forward to period, in terms of financial goals.



    I'm sorry for ranting, but people here and everywhere don't seem to understand that the market forces are dominating here and everywhere, and that the market is the most perfect smapling of public opinion that there can possibly be.



    So cleary and obviously everyone here thinks Steve is paid pretty much fairly, or else they wouldn't be so eager to buy Apples.



    [ 09-27-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
  • Reply 28 of 38
    I am surprised no one has mentioned the effect this has had on product pricing. People are always talking about the need for Apple to maintain certain profit margins. It seems to me that since Jobs? salary = total profits, then the products are unnecessarily over priced. In every age, the king always eats well during a famine while the peasants starve. In such tough economic times, and product pricing so high, it is borderline obscene for Jobs to be the highest paid exec in America. But then again, I?m sure it can all be explained by the CEO salary myth.



    Knowing exactly where the money is going makes it that much harder for me to plunk down the cash to buy a Mac.
  • Reply 29 of 38
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    [quote]Studies have shown that a highly paid, flashy boss has a greater ability at motivating his employees. It's something for them to look forward to.

    <hr></blockquote>



    I can work myself into an early grave so that my boss can buy that retirement island he's been hankering after?



    At least Apple are making profit. Golden parachutes when a company is being run into the ground really annoy me. Especially if I happpen to be a shareholder .
  • Reply 30 of 38
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    Ok, just help me get inside Apple





    if i go too often under 300 $ a month here...

    i want something else.





    ps. Mafiamac... don't say pc when you mean computer. pcs are those horrible things with a pentium in it.
  • Reply 31 of 38
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>



    You really have no idea.





    .



    [ 09-27-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    A people who have no idea, have no brain : do you mean that i have no brain ?



    More seriously do you think you really motivate your collaborator if you win 435 more time than them. Work more to make me more rich. If you want to motivate people you gave them more money.If you take nearly all this money for yourself where will you find some for your collaborators ?

    Winning 45 millions $ can be a factor of motivation for the executive staff of Apple, because they have a chance of becoming a CIO themselves, but it will be never a motivation for the average worker.



    I can't said to the nurses who help me, work more to make me more rich, it will be one day your turn, it will be never their turn they are not surgeon. I will not repeat either that i am a surgeon and she is only a nurse and thus merit many more money than her : it will just bring some jealousy and eager. Many people find normal that a great Soccerplayer wins millions because they think that perhaps their kids will be able to become one. And that curious millions of people are ready to see their kids as champions, but very few are ready to see them CEO.



    I do not see the morality to fire people from your companie just for economical reasons and simultaneously obtain substantific gains.



    Michelin has built a huge empire, but the Michelin's family have always been humble, (too much to my advice) but it has bring social stability.
  • Reply 32 of 38
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>You really have no idea. Studies have shown that a highly paid, flashy boss has a greater ability at motivating his employees. It's something for them to look forward to.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be interested in seeing these studies. I could show you studies that charismatic leadership motivates employees, and I could show you studies that a lack of pay equity decreases motivation. But I've never heard that the higher-paid your boss, the more motivated you are.

    <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
  • Reply 33 of 38
    Steve Jobs is the highest paid executive in America, Apple is the most innovative company in America. Go freaking cry about it people. Apple is profitable and competitive and Steve gets some bling bling. Just cry about it.
  • Reply 34 of 38
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    That's an odd reference linked to in the title thread.



    This extensive analysis at Forbes.com (who I've at least heard of) puts Steve Jobs in 11th place. Granted, that's not for this quarter. Perhaps Jobs gets one bonus a year or something and it happened to be this quarter, and all the other execs get paid some other quarter...I dunno how to explain the disparities between the two articles.



    <a href="http://www.forbes.com/2002/04/25/ceos.html"; target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/2002/04/25/ceos.html</a>;



    I think I'll go with the Forbes article though. Gives much more information.



    What's really interesting is Eisner's pay/performance. They gave him an F (he makes a ton of dough). :o



    Hmmm...my conspiratorial side looked at the "Redmond, WA" in the source article above and I just had to click...



    turns out erieri.com is a business which sells an executive compensation assessor program for Windows that costs $2,289 and no cents.



    Hmm... strange facts.



    Well, that was my conspiratorial side. My wholesome wheat side can't explain it either though...



    [ 09-27-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
  • Reply 35 of 38
    [quote]Originally posted by MafiaMac:

    <strong>Steve Jobs is the highest paid executive in America, Apple is the most innovative company in America. Go freaking cry about it people. Apple is profitable and competitive and Steve gets some bling bling. Just cry about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Apple is innovative but the most innovative? Whacha smoking Mr. Wanna-be Mafia?
  • Reply 36 of 38
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by seb:

    <strong>What's really interesting is Eisner's pay/performance. They gave him an F (he makes a ton of dough).</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Eisner's really screwing up right now. There's a lot of talk about him losing his Mickey ears.



    I guess it really comes down to how much a company is willing to pay to a) get someone to work for them and b) retain them.



    And that counts for the top engineers, programmers, CEOs, baseball players, whatever.



    I know that many people think my salary is obscene, but it was offered to prevent me going elsewhere. I'd probably still have come to ***, but it wasn't to know that.



    [ 09-27-2002: Message edited by: Poppy Boggy-Hillocks ]</p>
  • Reply 37 of 38
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Ah...



    The wholesome wheat side of me found this on the eieio site...



    <a href="http://www.erieri.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=ExecCompIndices.Main&Year=200 2&Qtr=3" target="_blank">link</a>



    Step 2 ? Calculating the Composite Executive Compensation Index

    The ERI Executive Compensation Index is a composite index based on the mean of 45 individual company values. The ERI Executive Compensation Index is calculated by summing each of the 45 individual company indices for each period and dividing by 45 companies.



    Example: For 1998 the sum of the 45 individual companies? index is 864. Dividing 864 by 45 companies results in a 1998 mean index value of 19.2. For 1999 the sum of the 45 individual company annual percent change is 855. Dividing this sum by 45 companies results in a 1999 mean value of 19.0.



    The 1998 ERI Executive Compensation Index Value of 19.2 indicates total cash compensation was 19.2 percent higher in 1998 compared to 1997 for the highest paid executives among the 45 companies in the index.



    The 1999 ERI Executive Compensation Index Value of 19.0 indicates the highest paid executive among the 45 companies received total cash compensation averaging 19.0 percent higher in 1999 than in 1998.




    Makes perfect sense now.

    <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



    I guess they were talking relatively highest paid executive. As in relative to the index of 45 individual company values?



    Eh, either way, Steve Jobs isn't the highest paid executive in the way the title of the thread makes it sound.



    However, I do agree that the disparity between the top paid and the least paid is outrageous. Didn't FDR once pass legislation that the most a person could make was $25,000 a year? And I believe the greeks figured about 5 fold seemed about right.



    Oh well, I guess if it bothered me that much I'd go work my ass off to be a high paid CEO or a dorky rap star with a crooked cap or something. That's how capitalism works, after all.



    [ 09-27-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
  • Reply 38 of 38
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    What this thread needs is some graphics!



    Here some snapshots from forbes.com



    CEO of Oracle







    CEO of Apple







    CEO of Dell







    CEO of Gateway



    Oops didn't make the list



    CEO of HP (or whatever)







    CEO of Compaq (or whatever)







    CEO of Micron (they gave this poor bastard an F)







    CEO of Microsoft (what? bill gates not found? Oh yeah, he's chairman now)



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