Tim Cook calls FBI backdoor demand 'dangerous,' vows to fight case

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  • Reply 41 of 161
    If you've been killed while on a killing spree and have links to extremists, I think it's fair that access to your phone be provided. Create the parameters such as those required for a search warrant and there shouldn't be an issue with such a tool.
  • Reply 42 of 161
    Man, this is some really good PR campaigning, goings on, here! Good job, Apple! Long lasting, too! You just wait and see, though. At some point the narrative is going to change. You'll start to comply with the government, but by then you'll have the public thinking that you put up this long, hard fight to stop it from happening. It's going to be a gradual progression to get the people acclimated, while at the same time, you'll still have the people's trust. After a while it'll all blow over. The government will have access to all of our data (that's if they don't already), and no one will say/do anything about it. No big deal, at least they tried to fight it, after all... "just keep giving me my Apple products every year!"
  • Reply 43 of 161
    mr o said:
    I stand with you Tim!

    Very lame of the FBI and the US Government. IF Bernie is to be believed, the US Government itself is kept hostage by those that fund the candidates. So, where is it going to end? Sharing our health data with insurance companies in exchange for money to the Government?

    >:x
    I hope you don't seriously believe Bernie Sanders is anything less than a statist. HE'S IN FAVOR OF A GOVERNMENT FAR MORE POWERFUL THAN THE OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT WE HAVE TODAY! His every policy would steal vastly more money from all to fund his "free everything" proposals. Bernie sucks, Trump sucks, Hillary sucks! This election is a shit show with nothing but awful choices!

    And Trump just sided with the FBI saying Apple must cooperate with the FBI and give them what they want. He's as liberal and as much a statist on this issue as Obama or Clinton! Very, very bad for all Americans, and very bad for Apple.

    Just look at the flight from the stock now:  http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021716/big-money-flees-apple-icahn-einhorn-sell-shares.asp?partner=YahooSA

    It's starting to look like Apple will have to use those hundreds of billions to take on the government with an army of lawyers and lobbyists never before seen in US history. If they fall to the demands of the FBI they're done. The iPhone will no longer be trusted anywhere.
    edited February 2016 buzdots
  • Reply 44 of 161
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,808member
    We should not be against Apple helping to uncover data from such terrorists phone but certainly against providing blanket backdoor. There is a difference. FBI or NSA is run by humans and they can abuse against us open backdoor into anyone's phone. We give away much of our privacy willing or unwilling or unknowingly agreeing to vising websites or using apps. All apps ask user to access this and that on your phone and we agree to install/use the App. Do we know than what app does to your Data ?
  • Reply 45 of 161
    metrixmetrix Posts: 244member
    Right now I would vote for Tim over any of the candidates we have before us. The agencies have a full court press to get Apple to open a backdoor and it is obvious when they start saying things like "think of our children", terrorist, etc.  Apple should close its doors before letting this government force them to do this. Apple we are behind you!!!!
    williamlondonargonaut
  • Reply 46 of 161
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,988member
    gatorguy said:

    I don't know what idiot wrote that on another site, but to say Apple can do this or that has got to come from someone with a single digit IQ. Could be from someone in this thread, as I'm seeing quite a few embarrassing and stupid posts.
    Visit your "other site" anytime between 9to5. ;) They have the article up there and it's certainly not written by anyone with a single-digit IQ. 
    I did read the blog and have read about the brute-force attacking hardware months ago. It would have been a better post if you included more since many of the commenters have a problem reading long posts.

    "iOS enforces increasing delays between failed passcode attempts:

    1-4 attempts: no delay
    5 attempts: 1 minute
    6 attempts: 5 minutes
    7-8 attempts: 15 minutes
    9 attempts: 1 hour

    All this supposes that iPhone is only protected by a 4-digit passcode, however. If a complex password was used, no-one in the FBI would live long enough to gain access.

    John Kelly, head of info security at Square, who previous worked for Apple on embedded security and thus presumably knows his stuff, says that it is perfectly possible for Apple to overwrite the Secure Enclave firmware without preventing access."

    The iPhone 5c doesn't have the security enclave but iOS 9 does more or less default to a 6-digit passcode so if these people were smart, they'd use the longer passcode or an alphanumeric passcode and there's no way anyone would be able to break this encryption. Incidentally, this is the same encryption process being used on iPhones used in government and enterprise facilities, which means their data is being properly protected. (Except when these mobile devices are being managed by a MDM system, which has it's own "backdoor" in the form of management certificate keys and passwords since the data stored on these devices is not the user's but the company's and therefore, the company has every right to it. I thought I read these iPhones might have been the property of the company these people worked for. It appears if they were the company didn't manage them properly or they would have been able to unlock them.
    hlee1169argonaut
  • Reply 47 of 161
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,988member
    By the way, I wasn't able to find any comments in this forum about Judge Pym's "exemplary" history. See https://cacorruptionwatch.wordpress.com/tag/magistrate-sheri-n-pym/ and https://cacorruptionwatch.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/u-s-magistrate-judge-sheri-pym-recuses-herself-from-erin-baldwins-section-1983-claim/ about her tainted activities and the Central District Court's designed violation of constitutional rights of civil right's victims. This court seems to be the equivalent of the eastern district of Texas in its judicial corruption. I grew up believing the court system was an honorable system filled with honorable people. Now I know differently and it's a sad part of US history.
    daren_mitchellhlee1169argonautcnocbui
  • Reply 48 of 161
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 262member
    thh21044 said:
    Traitor. Not a victim, and not a Veteran? Not my problem I guess, Tim? Here is hoping you are ground zero on the next attack. Traitor.
    I think you don't understand the implications of the situation. If Apple does create a back door for the iPhone/iPad/iPod it will put those devices at a risk for not only law enforcement to access them but also hackers. Those hackers could be terrorists utilizing your iPhone to do their communications and ultimately implicate the owner including yourself. 

    The FBI and other government agencies could violate our constitutional rights with this type of control. I don't want to live in a country that could do that type of spying by breaking into anyone's phone to gather information. The scary thing is that there are several republican candidates for president that would have no qualms about using this capability to spy on anyone who isn't a white conservative evangelical. Their comments regarding people of the Muslim religion and suspecting all are involved in terrorism is frightening and reminds me of another time in history that I was alive for. It's called McCarthyism and was a dark time for all Americans. 

    Mr. Cook is trying to protect us from going down that rabbit hole again. He is not a traitor but a hero that wants to protect the rights of everyone no matter what faith they practice and allow us to keep our personal information private. Let the FBI get their information from other sources. There's a good chance they wouldn't get any compelling info from the iPhone that could be collected elsewhere. 

    I I have an iPhone partly because of the capabilities to keep my information private and safe from hackers. 
    hlee1169argonautaylk
  • Reply 49 of 161
    imatimat Posts: 153member
    Move the seat of Apple to Europe (almost any country might do). Less taxes, better protection, less pressure.
  • Reply 50 of 161
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,647member
    matrix077 said:
    Do you have an evidence that Tim Cook does?
    Do you have evidence he doesn't? Ask any security expert and they'll tell you that there's always a backdoor. They may break the code up to different people as to make sure it's not solely owned by one person but there's always a backdoor.
    You can't prove a negative. If he did have a backdoor, why hasn't anyone been able to pry it open?
    williamlondonsuddenly newtonhlee1169
  • Reply 51 of 161
    If Apple loses, it is the end of privacy as any government in the world will also use any terrorist case and also force Apple to create or provide the 'backdoor tool' to them!!!
    williamlondonargonaut
  • Reply 52 of 161
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,647member
    If you've been killed while on a killing spree and have links to extremists, I think it's fair that access to your phone be provided. Create the parameters such as those required for a search warrant and there shouldn't be an issue with such a tool.
    I heard that's one of the questions iOS asks: have you killed or attempted to kill someone. 
    If yes, enable backdoor. 
    suddenly newtonjony0argonaut
  • Reply 53 of 161
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 262member
    This isn't as bad as it sounds. Remember, this is a 5C we are talking about which doesn't use the secure enclave. That means there is no hardware delay when attempting to brute force passwords. Granted, they'll still need apple to sign whatever modified version of iOS they want to upload but after that they can brute force it themselves. 
    Whether or not it is feasible is not the point. Privacy of us all is the point. Who wants to go back to a time like McCarthyism? It was a dark time that I was alive to witness. I'm guessing you are too young and that history subject wasn't even taught in your school. Go back and take a look. Instead of communism we will be persecuted for our religion. If you're not white and an evangelical you're at risk. I fear just because I'm an ELCA Lutheran since some presidential candidates only tolerate conservative right leaning Christianity. 

    We we should all fear what is happening here. 
    williamlondonargonaut
  • Reply 54 of 161
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,647member
    thh21044 said:
    Traitor. Not a victim, and not a Veteran? Not my problem I guess, Tim? Here is hoping you are ground zero on the next attack. Traitor.
    Troll. Why don't you give up a key to your house. There could be terrorist information in your crawl space. 
    williamlondonhlee1169argonaut
  • Reply 55 of 161
    gatorguy said:
    From another site:

    "...it would be possible to put the iPhone into DFU mode and then overwrite the firmware with a version that has neither the auto-erase mode nor delays between passcode attempts. The FBI could then trivially brute-force its way into the phone.

    Care to name the other site? An anonymous site saying Apple could do this or that does not carry any weight.

    Could Apple make a digital copy of the existing phone? Essentially put an image of the phone in a VM? Then the govt could have 10,000 copies of the phone being hacked simultaneously. My suspicion is that with some sophisticated hardware to tap into the chips on the phone such a thing could be possible - maybe.

  • Reply 56 of 161
    Perhaps this is too simplistic, but why can't Apple create this new program (or "backdoor") for this one phone, and then in the next software update produce a fix that disables the backdoor?
  • Reply 57 of 161
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,988member
    jasenj1 said:
    gatorguy said:
    From another site:

    "...it would be possible to put the iPhone into DFU mode and then overwrite the firmware with a version that has neither the auto-erase mode nor delays between passcode attempts. The FBI could then trivially brute-force its way into the phone.

    Care to name the other site? An anonymous site saying Apple could do this or that does not carry any weight.

    Could Apple make a digital copy of the existing phone? Essentially put an image of the phone in a VM? Then the govt could have 10,000 copies of the phone being hacked simultaneously. My suspicion is that with some sophisticated hardware to tap into the chips on the phone such a thing could be possible - maybe.

    He gave the site name in his first sentence. You just need to do a little web search to find it. I did and commented above with more information from that site, including a statement from a former Apple security programmer. The hardware mentioned is real. It's called IP Box, http://teeltech.com/mobile-device-forensic-tools/ip-box-iphone-password-unlock-tool/, and has been used. It's not vaporware. Their website it only works up to iOS 8.1.1 but that doesn't mean there isn't another black box that does the same thing with iOS 9. 

    As far as copying the image that's on the iPhone, I'm not sure they can. If the user backed up their iPhone to iCloud or to a computer then your suggestion might partially work. They wouldn't need 10K copies, they'd only need to use one of their supercomputers to do it. In case you haven't kept up on supercomputers, http://www.top500.org/lists/2015/11/, the #1 supercomputer is located in China and has 3,120,000 cores. Four of the next six are located at DOE facilities with the smallest having 301K cores. Since Apple is working with IBM, I like #3 at LLNL with 1.5M cores. Since these are government computers the FBI could always attempt to force them to violate common sense and waste time by loading one of the iPhone images onto these supercomputers and seeing how long it would take. Of course, there would be plenty of upset supercomputer users screaming about when they'd get their time.
    argonaut
  • Reply 58 of 161
    The amount of fear that is being expressed by all positions on this subject is very sad indeed. 
    dasanman69
  • Reply 59 of 161
    If the government has a back door, everyone will have a back door.  When the hell was the government ever secure?

    Snowdon...
    jfc1138aylk
  • Reply 60 of 161
    rob53 said:
    (Except when these mobile devices are being managed by a MDM system, which has it's own "backdoor" in the form of management certificate keys and passwords since the data stored on these devices is not the user's but the company's and therefore, the company has every right to it. I thought I read these iPhones might have been the property of the company these people worked for. It appears if they were the company didn't manage them properly or they would have been able to unlock them.
    That "company" you refer to in this case is actually a government agency. Oh the irony if it's true.
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