It's always the first that sets the precedent; they won't stop at one, they won't have to stop at one, and you know that.
I'm not a Snowden/Greenwald conspiracy theorist when it comes to data.
If your loved ones were gunned down & the information on that phone was helpful to the FBI, you'd want them to access it.
and you would be wrong. Your motivation in that case is emotional and not rational.
Also - some of you really need to read actual news. The amount of hearsay on this thread is bizarre. The fact that many here are active in the tech sector and yet post NSA still believe that Apple should appease the government blows my mind. I know that political view are personal and unique but i always believe that strong encryption was something all of us basically believed in knowing the caveats that it could be a tool used for nefarious purposes. That's the trade off we should be willing to make.
Also the poster who stated that they have nothing to hide while questioning the motivations of those that agree with apple must not have a grasp of history.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." - Pastor Martin Niemöller
This is the world that you are actively trying to re-create.
I don't think the method is restricted to the 5c. Even though 5s data is securely encrypted a valid passcode will *decrypt* it. And I don't think this will take years or even months to do. There are only 10^8 codes to try. If you bypass repetition checks and can brute force 1000 codes/s that's 10^5 seconds -- a little over a day. Even if you have to go an order of magnitude slower it's still just 2 weeks.
If it's so easy, why doesn't the FBI carry on and do it? Because they're trying to make Apple the "fall guy". Cook should tell them in no uncertain terms to GTFO.
Because they can't do it without a revised "private" version of iOS that removes the restriction on how quickly you can enter passcodes. And you need to bypass the touch interface and feed the passcodes directly from a search algorithm. The FBI doesn't have the knowledge or ability to do this, but Apple does.
muppetry said: I'm sure that they are primarily looking for contacts in the US, as they should be.
Just as I'm sure that once they look for those, they'll widen their scope. Nobody with the power that such a tool provides will ever be able to not use it for other things.
Trump is 100% right.
Apple can do the work in their own labs in total secrecy on such occasions where National Security is an issue. Otherwise as President life will become very difficult for Apple, more than Offshoring and Job Exporting.
You could make that statement for each of the ten's of thousands of homicides every year. Why even stop there?
This instance is about setting precedent and it's obvious.
This wasn't just a homicide. It was a terror attack. This couple spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. In the UK they have parliamentary oversight for these things. There's no reason why there can't be a bi-partisan group set up to make sure the cases are worthy.
As many western intelligence agencies have said, the Snowdon leaks have made it infinitely more difficult to gather intelligence.
Your fear is of elected officials abusing power. That's legitimate. My fear is of Islamism and terror attacks that are tearing Europe apart.
Ya think that the Saudi's might know something? Ya think that we asked? Ya think that they gave us the details?
The truth is, it is mostly the Middle East nations that are taking the brunt of this. and mostly Moslem civilians, as casualties, refugees, and civilians in combat zones. Everybody is pouring weapons into the fray, and it is spilling over, as would be expected, and there is lots of collateral damage that feeds terrorism. This isn't going to get solved with a backdoor into an iPhone.
There are some remarkably naïve people on here who believe the simple "them" and "us" storiess painted by the politicians and corporate media. Not a surprise given that we're well trained day in day out to believe it all.
Read "Web of Deceit" by Mark Curtis. It's about the UK, but it shows, clear as day using the government's own papers released under the 30 year rule that the UK government lied, lied and lied to us over decades. I expect that the governments in the USA, France, Italy, Germany and more have done just the same.
Here in the UK, it was discovered, purely by chance that undercover police had adopted the identities of dead children, infiltrated the lives of environmental activists by posing as activists, forming relationships with several female activists over years, fathering children with them and in some cases actually inciting and causing criminal damage as part of their cover! They then vanished - these women have been subject to incredible personal trauma and the government has belatedly apologised for some of it after years after the women took legal action. It's vital to remember that these were environmental activists had not broken the law - the police wanted information and that was how they went about it. You think you have nothing to hide, well, the FBI, CIA or whoever, may not care about that if they assume they have something you want. If you think the government is always on your side then you really need to wake up and smell the coffee.
muppetry said: I'm sure that they are primarily looking for contacts in the US, as they should be.
Just as I'm sure that once they look for those, they'll widen their scope. Nobody with the power that such a tool provides will ever be able to not use it for other things.
No - I think you missed my point, which was in response to the previous poster stating that there was no point looking for contacts in the Middle East because they would not be useful. If you mean widen the scope in relation to this phone - yes, I'm sure that they want everything on it. If you mean widen the scope outside that, then I'm not sure what you are envisaging.
Trump doesn't have to shut up anymore than the rest of us do. Trump doesn't have to prove anything. He has every right to his opinion. Maybe he is right. Surely Apple could counter-offer the FBI and open up just this one iPhone -- not write a program to hack all iPhones, but just get the information for the FBI and give them what they need. How could that endanger all other iPhones out there, including mine?
You could make that statement for each of the ten's of thousands of homicides every year. Why even stop there?
This instance is about setting precedent and it's obvious.
This wasn't just a homicide. It was a terror attack. This couple spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. In the UK they have parliamentary oversight for these things. There's no reason why there can't be a bi-partisan group set up to make sure the cases are worthy.
As many western intelligence agencies have said, the Snowdon leaks have made it infinitely more difficult to gather intelligence.
Your fear is of elected officials abusing power. That's legitimate. My fear is of Islamism and terror attacks that are tearing Europe apart.
Seventy years ago, fascism and a secret police apparatus was tearing Europe apart, sixty years ago, the secret agencies of East and West were tearing the postwar peace apart, fifty years ago, America was tearing apart Southeast Asia with a secret colonial-imperialist anti-revolutionary war, forty years ago, America began dismembering socialist and other popular movements in Latin America, skip ahead to fifteen years ago, when the US began tearing the Middle East apart with a trumped-up fabric of intel lies to justify the worst crime in US history, the invasion of Iraq.
And you have a fear of these gnats tearing Europe apart. Maybe the FBI has a junior cadet informer program you could join to show your loyalty. Who knows, maybe boots and a uniform in it for you.
Having just read Tim Cook's statements on this I'm now confused. He implies that Apple could create a software tool to break into the phone but that such a tool would be "too dangerous to create" - presumably in the sense that they could not, subsequently, prevent its widespread use as a backdoor to any iPhone.
Cook is correct. Once this tool is created the government will next request they have full access to the tool. And when that happens the bad guys will get access to it also.
That's idiotic. The FBI has all the tools to bust open your front door, but they can't without the proper authorization.
It always makes me think taht people who are obsessed with privacy, are up to no good. Those who do not want to do do anything illegal or bad don't have to be afraid. Most people live their lives in cyberspace anyway and their data is subject to hackers all over the place, they have no problem posting it all on Facebook but are bent out of shape when law enforcement needs to get info about terrorists. Cook should give up this fight. I'd rather be safe than worried about someone knowing what I'm up to if I intend no harm.
Then please use Android or Windows where privacy and security are not only irrelevant, but obstacles to business. Don't bother buying anything from Apple again and sell what you do have.
Trump doesn't have to shut up anymore than the rest of us do. Trump doesn't have to prove anything. He has every right to his opinion. Maybe he is right. Surely Apple could counter-offer the FBI and open up just this one iPhone -- not write a program to hack all iPhones, but just get the information for the FBI and give them what they need. How could that endanger all other iPhones out there, including mine?
Trump is running for president and he's arguing that the people should lose their liberty in favor of a false security.
Trump is 100% right.
Apple can do the work in their own labs in total secrecy on such occasions where National Security is an issue. Otherwise as President life will become very difficult for Apple, more than Offshoring and Job Exporting.
You do know Trump hired tons of illegals and offshored his god damn products! Man get a god damn clue. Another one who has no clue about anything yet speaks loudly; like their POS "hero" trump. Go back to crapville USA where delusions run free and people trolling with many different accounts are considered AOK
Considering the number of "people" who just register everytime anything talks about trump I'm going to call out the fact that these are likely one or two person trolling. The writing style is the same in all posts (same thing on Macrumors).
You're right. He's a barely disguised fascist. There are nothing left but really, really bad choices this election.
Trump is a very practical man, incredibly successful and just want American needs at this time. Cook should do his duty to the families that lost their loved ones, and help to avoid further attacks of this kind, possibly by people who could be discovered by the information on the phone. Obama has doubled our national debt, made our borders worthless, signed treaties that enrich our sworn enemies, and allowed ISIL to run without serious restraint - and then there's Obamacare, an insiders game, where the rich get richer. Trump will use common sense and business standards to move this country forward again.
Trump has a lot in common with some conservative male Moslems.
It's always the first that sets the precedent; they won't stop at one, they won't have to stop at one, and you know that.
I'm not a Snowden/Greenwald conspiracy theorist when it comes to data.
If your loved ones were gunned down & the information on that phone was helpful to the FBI, you'd want them to access it.
But think of the children.
Since 9/11, I believe the US has spent approximately $500 M on security for each person killed in a terrorist incident. Do you know anyone personally who has suffered harm from a terrorist incident? Do you know anyone who has suffered from cancer? Had even half the money spent on 'security' been spent on other things, like medical research, I think it quite possible that many more lives would have been bettered than have been from what it was spent on.
It's a dangerous precedence. In NZ for the dotcom case, the NZ police seized all hard disks after a mass raid on his home. The FBI turned up made copies of the disk before the Judge ruled they must not be given to the FBI since they were illegally seized and may compromised dotcoms defence. FBI meantime already scooted back the US with the copies, but I'm sure they didn't look at them - we have a saying down here "yeah right!".
The original house search was deemed illegal, so the politician's changed the law backdating it so it was legal, no-one was ever charged with violating the law as it was. Rule of Thumb says don't trust a politician or anyone who wants to become one.
Comments
Also - some of you really need to read actual news. The amount of hearsay on this thread is bizarre. The fact that many here are active in the tech sector and yet post NSA still believe that Apple should appease the government blows my mind. I know that political view are personal and unique but i always believe that strong encryption was something all of us basically believed in knowing the caveats that it could be a tool used for nefarious purposes. That's the trade off we should be willing to make.
Also the poster who stated that they have nothing to hide while questioning the motivations of those that agree with apple must not have a grasp of history.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." - Pastor Martin Niemöller
This is the world that you are actively trying to re-create.
The truth is, it is mostly the Middle East nations that are taking the brunt of this. and mostly Moslem civilians, as casualties, refugees, and civilians in combat zones. Everybody is pouring weapons into the fray, and it is spilling over, as would be expected, and there is lots of collateral damage that feeds terrorism. This isn't going to get solved with a backdoor into an iPhone.
Read "Web of Deceit" by Mark Curtis. It's about the UK, but it shows, clear as day using the government's own papers released under the 30 year rule that the UK government lied, lied and lied to us over decades. I expect that the governments in the USA, France, Italy, Germany and more have done just the same.
Here in the UK, it was discovered, purely by chance that undercover police had adopted the identities of dead children, infiltrated the lives of environmental activists by posing as activists, forming relationships with several female activists over years, fathering children with them and in some cases actually inciting and causing criminal damage as part of their cover! They then vanished - these women have been subject to incredible personal trauma and the government has belatedly apologised for some of it after years after the women took legal action. It's vital to remember that these were environmental activists had not broken the law - the police wanted information and that was how they went about it. You think you have nothing to hide, well, the FBI, CIA or whoever, may not care about that if they assume they have something you want. If you think the government is always on your side then you really need to wake up and smell the coffee.
And you have a fear of these gnats tearing Europe apart. Maybe the FBI has a junior cadet informer program you could join to show your loyalty. Who knows, maybe boots and a uniform in it for you.
Good-bye.
You do know Trump hired tons of illegals and offshored his god damn products! Man get a god damn clue.
Another one who has no clue about anything yet speaks loudly; like their POS "hero" trump.
Go back to crapville USA where delusions run free and people trolling with many different accounts are considered AOK
Considering the number of "people" who just register everytime anything talks about trump I'm going to call out the fact that these are likely one or two person trolling.
The writing style is the same in all posts (same thing on Macrumors).
Trump has a lot in common with some conservative male Moslems.
Since 9/11, I believe the US has spent approximately $500 M on security for each person killed in a terrorist incident. Do you know anyone personally who has suffered harm from a terrorist incident? Do you know anyone who has suffered from cancer? Had even half the money spent on 'security' been spent on other things, like medical research, I think it quite possible that many more lives would have been bettered than have been from what it was spent on.