All the FBI needs to do in order to get the data off the internal "Hynix H2JTDG2MBR 128 Gb (16 GB) NAND flash" is to take apart the terrorist used iphone that was passcode protected. Remove the flash memory from the logic board then take another iphone 5c with no passcode and swap out the flash memory by re- soldering it to the new iphone's logic board that does not have a passcode. Put it back together and access the data with no need for a passcode. Or use this article on how to read bare nand flash chips with a microprocessor
As I understand it, for phones with Touch ID, Flash data is encrypted and decrypted by the secure enclave. So, moving the Flash device to another phone does you no good. The secure enclave in the new phone won't have the correct key.
The Secure Enclave is only present on A7 & newer processors. The 5c runs an A6, so no secure enclave is present.
It looks like everybody is missing something pretty incredible here. The government wants to essentially trash privacy forever on a one time fishing trip. This is just oo unbalanced to evev rate a discussion of "National Security" (what hogwash...) against personal privacy.
Imagine what would happen if this stunt were to go ahead and if their team were to fail? That would be huge! And even better advertisement for Apple!
Here is what I don't understand...as far as the iPhone in question...it is just your everyday regular iPhone which is locked correct? Where you type in the 4 (or 6) digits to get in. So why can't Mr. McAfee simply use anyone's iPhone and just see if he can or cannot crack it using whatever method he thinks will work. Now he can tell us with absolute certainty whether he can or cannot.
I must have missed something about that iPhone being held by the gov't. In my humble opinion I don't he can crack it and if he could that is not going to bode well for Apple.
Why the terrorist not using a burn phone. Then it will be a lot easier for everyone in this case. Just destroy n throw it away. Done.
As I understand it, for phones with Touch ID, Flash data is encrypted and decrypted by the secure enclave. So, moving the Flash device to another phone does you no good. The secure enclave in the new phone won't have the correct key.
The Secure Enclave is only present on A7 & newer processors. The 5c runs an A6, so no secure enclave is present.
As I said. Phones with TouchID, which would be A7 on up. The general public is more likely to understand the TouchID requirement than the internal processor family name. The 5C does not have TouchID.
This requires the source code. And it would be greatly helped along if the people who wrote that source code also did the work. Not having the source code or the people most up to date with it is not a plan for an easy task, it's a plan for a very risky hack job.
Apple could easily do this and return the phone to the FBI, never having revealed the source code they wrote to achieve the feat.
And then you have this...it worked...I just hacked my own iPhone in less than a minute...
Pretty crazy. What OS are you running? Are you using an advanced password (encrypted)?
Man, I'm not sure. I don't get nagged that their is an update pending on my 5S so perhaps I have that latest? And I don't think I am using any advanced password...I just have the 6 digits to enter but I use my thumb touch to unlock it. So not sure about it. Anyway, that video definitely got me in...I did read somewhere that you can turn off Siri on the lock screen so maybe that will make iPhone's more secure...and perhaps that is the issue with the one the gov't has at the moment.
All the FBI needs to do in order to get the data off the internal "Hynix H2JTDG2MBR 128 Gb (16 GB) NAND flash" is to take apart the terrorist used iphone that was passcode protected. Remove the flash memory from the logic board then take another iphone 5c with no passcode and swap out the flash memory by re- soldering it to the new iphone's logic board that does not have a passcode. Put it back together and access the data with no need for a passcode. Or use this article on how to read bare nand flash chips with a microprocessor
As I understand it, for phones with Touch ID, Flash data is encrypted and decrypted by the secure enclave. So, moving the Flash device to another phone does you no good. The secure enclave in the new phone won't have the correct key.
But this is a iPhone 5c, no secure enclave. Just copy the FLASH and start hacking.
This requires the source code. And it would be greatly helped along if the people who wrote that source code also did the work. Not having the source code or the people most up to date with it is not a plan for an easy task, it's a plan for a very risky hack job.
Apple could easily do this and return the phone to the FBI, never having revealed the source code they wrote to achieve the feat.
John McAfee on the other hand, not a good plan.
If Apple do this just once, every government branch in the US with a law enforcement role will ask a judge to order Apple to do the same thing for whatever case involving an iPhone they are dealing with, and those judeges will do just that. 1 = thousands.
McAfee fled the country he had been living in for several years, as he was the number one suspect in a murder there. So yeah, he is looking for any kind of good press because all the fingers pointed at him. He pretty much got away with it.
If the FBI just want to unlock the one phone then they should let McAfee have a go.
I suspect they won't even bother because this case is just the excuse they've been looking for for years now to break Apple's consumer encryption.
From previous posts I take it that technically it would be possible to swap out the memory of interest into a different phone and read it out. IF that is correct what are the chances that this is all just a CYA PR stunt from Apple to be prepared when the news is spread that the phone under investigation has been deciphered?
From previous posts I take it that technically it would be possible to swap out the memory of interest into a different phone and read it out. IF that is correct what are the chances that this is all just a CYA PR stunt from Apple to be prepared when the news is spread that the phone under investigation has been deciphered?
I don't know who keeps posting that. The drive is encrypted. Are you familiar with how File Vault works on OS X? The difference is, instead of 10,000 options for a 4-digit passcode, you have an extremely complex key for decrypting File Vault encryption. I'm not saying that Apple uses the same encryption tech for iOS as with OS X, but the concepts are likely the same.
From previous posts I take it that technically it would be possible to swap out the memory of interest into a different phone and read it out. IF that is correct what are the chances that this is all just a CYA PR stunt from Apple to be prepared when the news is spread that the phone under investigation has been deciphered?
I don't know who keeps posting that. The drive is encrypted. Are you familiar with how File Vault works on OS X? The difference is, instead of 10,000 options for a 4-digit passcode, you have an extremely complex key for decrypting File Vault encryption. I'm not saying that Apple uses the same encryption tech for iOS as with OS X, but the concepts are likely the same.
Well, posts# 49, 61, 65, 70 in this thread, for starters. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it would be THAT simple and it would be reassuring knowing it's protected by FileVault, or something similar.
On a side note, in all this discussion, I found the thought very nice that my iOS device is the second place where no one can snoop around (yet). The other one being inside my head, of course. This is not taking a stand on either side, just a feeling related to the idea no one could break into the phone.
From previous posts I take it that technically it would be possible to swap out the memory of interest into a different phone and read it out. IF that is correct what are the chances that this is all just a CYA PR stunt from Apple to be prepared when the news is spread that the phone under investigation has been deciphered?
I don't know who keeps posting that. The drive is encrypted. Are you familiar with how File Vault works on OS X? The difference is, instead of 10,000 options for a 4-digit passcode, you have an extremely complex key for decrypting File Vault encryption. I'm not saying that Apple uses the same encryption tech for iOS as with OS X, but the concepts are likely the same.
Errr, no and no. The drive is encrypted with a very secure key, but the weakest point isn't that key, it's the 4 digit key lock key of the phone (that is used to generate or retrieve or whatever the 'very secure key') that's the weak point and attack vector for the FBI.
I don't know who keeps posting that. The drive is encrypted. Are you familiar with how File Vault works on OS X? The difference is, instead of 10,000 options for a 4-digit passcode, you have an extremely complex key for decrypting File Vault encryption. I'm not saying that Apple uses the same encryption tech for iOS as with OS X, but the concepts are likely the same.
Errr, no and no. The drive is encrypted with a very secure key, but the weakest point isn't that key, it's the 4 digit key lock key of the phone (that is used to generate or retrieve or whatever the 'very secure key') that's the weak point and attack vector for the FBI.
Only, if you don't have a limit of retries before it gets wiped, correct?
And I am specifically interested in the chances of an attack on the encrypted memory itself by, eg moving it to a different phone. As I understand given a eg ten time limit of retries, and no modified iOS, both attack vectors appear to be equally weak.
I don't know who keeps posting that. The drive is encrypted. Are you familiar with how File Vault works on OS X? The difference is, instead of 10,000 options for a 4-digit passcode, you have an extremely complex key for decrypting File Vault encryption. I'm not saying that Apple uses the same encryption tech for iOS as with OS X, but the concepts are likely the same.
Errr, no and no. The drive is encrypted with a very secure key, but the weakest point isn't that key, it's the 4 digit key lock key of the phone (that is used to generate or retrieve or whatever the 'very secure key') that's the weak point and attack vector for the FBI.
You say "Errr, no and no," but then restate my words.
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Why not? It only took a couple dope smoking experts to make this whole thing possible in the first place.
How many guesses will McAfee be granted in the quest, if allowed to have a go? What if the phone gets erased or damaged?
And McAfee pays someone $500,000 a year? For what? Does he have a weed recommendation?
Apple could easily do this and return the phone to the FBI, never having revealed the source code they wrote to achieve the feat.
John McAfee on the other hand, not a good plan.
McAfee fled the country he had been living in for several years, as he was the number one suspect in a murder there. So yeah, he is looking for any kind of good press because all the fingers pointed at him. He pretty much got away with it.
On a side note, in all this discussion, I found the thought very nice that my iOS device is the second place where no one can snoop around (yet). The other one being inside my head, of course. This is not taking a stand on either side, just a feeling related to the idea no one could break into the phone.
The drive is encrypted with a very secure key, but the weakest point isn't that key, it's the 4 digit key lock key of the phone (that is used to generate or retrieve or whatever the 'very secure key') that's the weak point and attack vector for the FBI.
And I am specifically interested in the chances of an attack on the encrypted memory itself by, eg moving it to a different phone. As I understand given a eg ten time limit of retries, and no modified iOS, both attack vectors appear to be equally weak.