US Department of Justice files motion to force Apple to crack terrorist's iPhone

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  • Reply 101 of 127
    jungmark said:
    So will you leave your doors unlocked or provide the local police dept with your keys?
    You are overthinking (or not thinking) and extrapolating beyond reason what I said. They can sure look at my computer's drives (and should be able to look at anyone else's) if they have good reason to suspect paedophilia. I will certainly give them my keys if they want to look in the boot of my car. 
    You are basically a Putin supporter; so, I think you should move to Russia.
  • Reply 102 of 127
    postman said:
    "The FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation," Cook wrote. "In the wrong hands, this software -- which does not exist today -- would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone's physical possession."

    The FBI couldn't protect the country against 911 despite the fact that the attackers were "under survellance". The result after that historic failure are new laws that for the first time in American history circumvent 'habeus corpus'. And we now all live in a country where all citizens' have their personal information and communications surveilled 24/7. With cameras watching us on every street corner. Where we have to take our shoes and belts off and be subject to bodily search just to fly home for the holidays. And yet where they cannot protect us from identity theft, phone fraud or having our personal data stolen from hackers in other countries. 


    If we give everything gov't law enforcement agencies want, America will be by definition a surveillance police state. Where companies like Apple are legally forced to work for them. Rather than protect the privacy of their customers. This "overreach" by the FBI and their political cronies in Washington is going to permanently alter this country - beyond recognizability as we lose more and more of our rights - if leaders like Tim Cook don't stand up to them.

    Anyone who got a C- in High School Physics, should wonder aloud how WTC 1 + 2 + 7 fell to the ground at the acceleration due to gravity = 32 meters/second squared.  

    In the physical Universe you live in, presumably in possession of a brain (you think is worthy of making an informed comment here), the video evidence of 9/11/2001 is impossible, unless the buildings were imploded with incendiaries and/explosives.  

    So, you believe a trillion dollar North American defense system failed completely that morng, then 3 steel framed buildings collapsed at the acceleration due to gravity, which is impossible because no office + jet fuel (diesel) fire burns at a temp sufficient to melt structural steel. 

    Does your Weber Grill collapse from hot dogs?  

    Wake Up!  Lemming are we?  Trust Government?  The German people did that once....  
  • Reply 103 of 127
    foggyhill said:
    You are overthinking (or not thinking) and extrapolating beyond reason what I said. They can sure look at my computer's drives (and should be able to look at anyone else's) if they have good reason to suspect paedophilia. I will certainly give them my keys if they want to look in the boot of my car. 
    You are basically a Putin supporter; so, I think you should move to Russia.
    Brilliant deduction and subsequent recommendation. Ü 
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 104 of 127
    kamilton said:
    Anyone who got a C- in High School Physics, should wonder aloud how WTC 1 + 2 + 7 fell to the ground at the acceleration due to gravity = 32 meters/second squared.  

    In the physical Universe you live in, presumably in possession of a brain (you think is worthy of making an informed comment here), the video evidence of 9/11/2001 is impossible, unless the buildings were imploded with incendiaries and/explosives.  

    So, you believe a trillion dollar North American defense system failed completely that morng, then 3 steel framed buildings collapsed at the acceleration due to gravity, which is impossible because no office + jet fuel (diesel) fire burns at a temp sufficient to melt structural steel. 

    Does your Weber Grill collapse from hot dogs?  

    Wake Up!  Lemming are we?  Trust Government?  The German people did that once....  
    Not sure if serious...
    pscooter63
  • Reply 105 of 127
    Why do I have the image of US politics wielding the evil red light saber, and Apple with the blue?
  • Reply 106 of 127
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,452member
    jfc1138 said:
    mac_128 said:
    Funny I was just thinking about this scenario. And yes, Jack Bauer would be pointing a gun at Tim Cook's head after abducting from his home and driving him to his office at 3AM at Apple. If Cook didn't comply, Bauer would brutally assault him while the engineering team looked on. Threatening each one of them one-by-one. And they would have less than 24 hours to comply in order for Bauer to unlock the phone and thwart the next terrorist attack. 

    Which brings me to the next thing ... if the government is filing against Apple, and corporations are people in the eyes of the law, what happens if "Apple" doesn't comply? Does the company go to jail? Or do its officers go to jail? Or all of its employees? Or do they just take the company away from everyone and not let anyone in to go to work?
    The company simply points to The Cult of Apple and like Hobby Lobby, cults can't be forced to do stuff against their faith. Apple get's off.

    Moment of Silence.
    Haha.

    Seriously.

    Who goes to jail?
  • Reply 107 of 127
    foggyhill said:
    The sooner Apple makes it to where NOONE can crack the encryption, the better.  Government is never one to help in the privacy of any citizen, but will do everything they can to spy on absolutely everyone.  


    The irony here is that this case throws the bu!!sh!t flag in the face of the NSA who's been quietly telling the world that they have everyone's data already.  If that were literally the case, the FBI could walk over to the NSA and get everything they wanted without the phone at all.  This obviously isn't the case, so the NSA isn't doing what people thought they were.  

    Apple needs to improve encryption and make it bombproof so that no one, even them, can access anything against some's will.  
    It's already the case on the 5s and up. If it were one of these phones, the DOJ wouldn't have a chance on earth; they just lucked out that it was the 5c.
    security expert Bruce Schniere says otherwise -- that the same sort of hack can be used on all models:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/18/why-you-should-side-with-apple-not-the-fbi-in-the-san-bernardino-iphone-case/
  • Reply 108 of 127
    jfc1138 said:
    Minor detail: the 5c was owned by the San Bernardino County Dept. of Health. It was a work phone which is why I expect when the murderers crushed their own cellphones and didn't bother with this one.

    The DoJ couldn't care less about sanitary inspection reports, they're after a masterkey and a precedent.

    So they filed another whine with Pym? Like she needs encouragement. She didn't even request input from Apple before rubber stamping the original DoJ request for a masterkey software kit.
    I think you're right - they have had an end game in mind and have recently switched to a more "salable" strategy allowing them to nibble away until they get unfettered access to all devices. James Comey had been pushing to stop end to end encryption, and gain a back door to devices well before the San Bernardino incident. It's unlikely the county iPhone has significant informative value, but he's using the incident to push through his agenda. It's an old tactic which has been played many times with great success - get your foot in the door, and, under the radar, inch yourself towards your goal. People keep talking about this as a privacy issue vs national security. However, if the OS is degraded as proposed, it will be more of a security issue than one of privacy. I could care less if someone sees my emails, but having access to my account(s) userid/password is another issue. I, along with a number of people/business use portable devices to manage investments, accounts, and control access to my home. You can't have national security if individual securities are compromised. All people will see if they look at my emails is I seem to need a lot of viagra, and have desire to h00kup with all sorts of women - oh yes, and it seem I need vast amounts of lux watches at discounted prices :~}.
  • Reply 109 of 127
    Would be great if they imprisoned Tim Cook so that a more competent leader would run Apple.
    Another "one post wonder"... 

    You FBI guys sure are busy today.
  • Reply 110 of 127
    jfc1138 said:
    "Let's have pizza at 3 next Thursday"? How do you decrypt that as a suicide attack next Sunday at 6? Adding three to both…
    I guess eating three pizzas would be suicide, but I fail to see how it’s an attack of anything other than your heart.  ;) 
    Upside down world said:
    Would be great if they imprisoned Tim Cook so that a more competent leader would run Apple.
    I’d recommend checking the IP location of these posts, you know? See if it’s not just government shills.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 111 of 127
    volcan said:
    applesauce007 said:

    McAfee plans to take the phone apart, copying all the bits to another device and then hack it for about 3 weeks to get the information.

    Why doesn't the government let him do this for them for free?  Or do it themselves?
    Because the government has other ulterior motives to hack at the world's data.
    You certainly could be right, however if you take the phone apart and are unsuccessful, I doubt the phone would ever work again. It would be a one shot deal, and honestly I doubt the FBI trusts McAfee whatsoever. If I was in charge of the FBI I would want a software patch that was nondestructive so it could be tested and debugged.
    The encryption is distributed end to end.  You cannot patch the software to not use encryption anymore.
    You either have the key to decrypt it or you have to hack it and hacking could take a very long time.
    McAfee thinks Social Engineering could help speed things up but there is really no guarantee.

    Here is a quote from the article linked below:  ( Good Luck with breaking that... lol )
    "It is therefore estimated, that standard desktop computing power would take 4,294,967,296 x 1.5 million years to break a DigiCert 2048-bit SSL certificate. Or, in other words, a little over 6.4 quadrillion years."

    Check it out: 
    https://www.digicert.com/TimeTravel/math.htm


  • Reply 112 of 127
    If you agree that what the government is proposing is wrong, then I recommend you take a min and head over to whitehouse.gov and sign the petition that just went up for this issue:

    Halt efforts that compel Apple and other device makers to create a "backdoor" for the Government to access citizens data


    The direct link is: http://wh.gov/ifwGT
  • Reply 113 of 127
    "I'm usually on the side of tech companies but I really feel Apple is in the wrong here. and 18 others." and without justification you're opinion is about as useless as a football bat.
    edited February 2016 cnocbui
  • Reply 114 of 127
    HeyImMike said:
    If you agree that what the government is proposing is wrong, then I recommend you take a min and head over to whitehouse.gov and sign the petition that just went up for this issue:

    Halt efforts that compel Apple and other device makers to create a "backdoor" for the Government to access citizens data


    The direct link is: http://wh.gov/ifwGT
    Done
  • Reply 115 of 127
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,982member
    dmdev said:
    HeyImMike said:
    If you agree that what the government is proposing is wrong, then I recommend you take a min and head over to whitehouse.gov and sign the petition that just went up for this issue:

    Halt efforts that compel Apple and other device makers to create a "backdoor" for the Government to access citizens data


    The direct link is: http://wh.gov/ifwGT
    Done
    me too. Done
  • Reply 116 of 127
    It's kind of scary to think that Apple could push an iOS update to a locked phone that would then disable the password security. If Apple could do it, why couldn't a hacker looking to take possession of my iPhone?
  • Reply 117 of 127
    I am pretty sure the FBI could go to the network provider for the list of calls made from the phone. However this kind of issue should not have been made public, Apple should have complied with the FBIs wishes and kept the whole matter quiet. Sometimes national security needs to be put before the privacy of terrorists.
  • Reply 118 of 127
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    tmay said:
    Unrelated.

    The issue is creating a software tool as a backdoor into an individuals smartphone that if ever released, will allow cybercriminals full access. Do you understand that?

    Edit:

    Bloomberg:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-19/secret-memo-details-u-s-s-broader-strategy-to-crack-phones
    You do not understand the analogy.
    I think it's you that doesn't understand the actual issue. And that is, indeed, the point tmay was making.

    But if you want to stick to your analogy, I think jungmark answered it perfectly.
    "It depends. Do they have a master key that opens all trunks but pinky swears to use it on (just) one car?"
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 119 of 127
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    It's kind of scary to think that Apple could push an iOS update to a locked phone that would then disable the password security. If Apple could do it, why couldn't a hacker looking to take possession of my iPhone?
    This is exactly (one of) the points.
  • Reply 120 of 127
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,982member
    kamilton said:
    postman said:

    The FBI couldn't protect the country against 911 despite the fact that the attackers were "under survellance". The result after that historic failure are new laws that for the first time in American history circumvent 'habeus corpus'. And we now all live in a country where all citizens' have their personal information and communications surveilled 24/7. With cameras watching us on every street corner. Where we have to take our shoes and belts off and be subject to bodily search just to fly home for the holidays. And yet where they cannot protect us from identity theft, phone fraud or having our personal data stolen from hackers in other countries. 


    If we give everything gov't law enforcement agencies want, America will be by definition a surveillance police state. Where companies like Apple are legally forced to work for them. Rather than protect the privacy of their customers. This "overreach" by the FBI and their political cronies in Washington is going to permanently alter this country - beyond recognizability as we lose more and more of our rights - if leaders like Tim Cook don't stand up to them.

    Anyone who got a C- in High School Physics, should wonder aloud how WTC 1 + 2 + 7 fell to the ground at the acceleration due to gravity = 32 meters/second squared.  

    In the physical Universe you live in, presumably in possession of a brain (you think is worthy of making an informed comment here), the video evidence of 9/11/2001 is impossible, unless the buildings were imploded with incendiaries and/explosives.  

    So, you believe a trillion dollar North American defense system failed completely that morng, then 3 steel framed buildings collapsed at the acceleration due to gravity, which is impossible because no office + jet fuel (diesel) fire burns at a temp sufficient to melt structural steel. 

    Does your Weber Grill collapse from hot dogs?  

    Wake Up!  Lemming are we?  Trust Government?  The German people did that once....  
    You must think that the following is a conspiracy as well:
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldecott_Tunnel_fire

    Extent of damage[edit]

    The fire burned for between twenty-eight and forty minutes, and during this time most of the 8,700 U.S. gal (33,000 L) of gasoline carried by the truck were consumed. About 250 U.S. gal (950 L)) were either discharged into the drainage or recovered from the tanker.[citation needed]

    All the heat and smoke from the fire went uphill towards the eastern entry portal. There was no fire damage west (downhill) of the fire site.[citation needed]

    Brass vehicle components at the tanker melted, indicating that temperatures were over 1,800 °F (980 °C), but no examples of melted copper (melting point 1,981 °F (1,083 °C)) were identified during the clean-up operations, indicating that maximum temperature range remained between those two points.

    The tiles and grout on the walls of the tunnel were damaged and spalled by intense heat all the way to the entrance portal, 1,720 ft away (520 m). Over the first 750 ft (230 m) east of the fire site, there was spalling of the concrete false ceiling and of the concrete walls behind the tiles. Spalling stopped at the steel reinforcement bars, approximately 3 in (7.6 cm) below the concrete surface.[citation needed]

    Over the first 675 ft (206 m), the steel blanking plates over the ventilation flues in the false ceiling (these blanking plates are used to balance the air supply and extract rates) were buckled by heat and had to be replaced.[citation needed]

    The tunnel's wall tiles, water pipes, lighting, communications, signage and emergency panels had to be replaced throughout the east portion of the tunnel. The ceiling tiles had previously been removed due to poor adhesion. As part of the reconstruction project, enameled metal panels were used to cover the ceiling concrete. The third tube of the tunnel was closed for repairs lasting a period of months; costs of the reconstruction project totaled more than $3 million.[citation needed]"


    Steel loses it strength at high temperature; hence why jet engines use high temperature alloys of steel which include significant amounts of nickel, chromium and molybdenum as primary alloying agents.

    The Towers collapsed because the insulation of the beams for fire protection was lost in the initial impact or over time allowing the underlying steel to be exposed to high temperatures. The fire was supported by the mass of fuel, about 90000 kg released from the aircraft impact and the winds aloft feeding it.

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