There is far more to this than just breaking in to the iPhone. There is a great blog article by a Forensics expert regarding this wish of the FBI. He explains how one of the biggest problems is when things hit the courts and information found on the phone is involved. Here is the URL to the article. I found it extremely enlightening as I had never thought about this part of the problem. http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645
Very interesting article. Thanks.
That is indeed a very informative article. With a little editing/grammar/spelling work it would be an excellent document to present in any hearing or litigation as evidence along with the author's CV.
As one of the millions who had background check/finger prints etc. stolen i can say If you trust the government to keep anything secure you are a fool. Once they start and the then this gets leaked out into the wild the will take no responsibility for it.
What's with the huge influx of new POS trolls lately? AI has always had a few idiots show up now and then, but the last few months it seems we get several new posters per article.
I'm sure it's envious Android users upset by the fact they have to read weekly updates on Apple seeding new iOS updates to developers while they continue to wait for their 2 year old Android OS to be updated.
Comey has been talking for years about smartphone encryption and how smartphone encryption should be illegal. Now he says, "I hope folks will take a deep breath and stop saying the world is ending." The FBI director doth protest too much, methinks.
We know the FBI has had access to the iPhone 5c for a few weeks and that it changed (or directed the change) of the iPhone's passcode. Perhaps (hypothetically) the FBI also installed malware that will issue it a report on any changes to iOS subsequently made by Apple engineers who cooperate with the FBI's investigation. Armed with that, the FBI might not need Apple's assistance to hack subsequent iPhones.
Its good to know the FBI is focused on all the right things with their clever scare tactics./s I'm just wondering where the outrage is over the main form of terrorism in this country...
Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries and 11,208 deaths by homicide, 21,175 by suicide with a firearm, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms. And lastly, more of our youth are killed with guns every year than die in auto accidents.
Come, do your job with the resources you have or go find another job!
You might wonder why I’m terrified for the future of the country. World. I’m terrified because this kind of bullshit is even in question. Everyone knows that the Constitution has been subverted. The terrifying thing is that there are people who do not care. Most people on the Internet probably only come in contact with less than a dozen sites. Google, with its Gmail and YouTube, Facebook, perhaps a random community like Tumblr, a couple of image boards, the occasional visit to Amazon, maybe some news websites, and that’s about it. For the vast majority of the population, the Internet is a prepackaged, socially engineered spy grid. It fuels itself on your input and weaponizes the information against you and everyone else.
Already the social engineers are dividing us entirely, confusing the tongue, and making it difficult to communicate effectively. On Google and YouTube, comments and videos are filtered such that you only come in contact with certain predetermined material derived by social algorithms. They make it nearly impossible to discover new random channels and points of view. When you click on a video and scroll down, you’re presented with preselected comments that jive with the opinions you tend to agree with and made to jump through hoops of inconvenience to look at all the other discussions taking place.
Since Google is so influential, this sort of strategy is largely finding its way into every facet of the corporate-controlled Internet. This means that when I click on a video, say of the puppet Obama fake crying about Sandy Hook, I will see comments that are critical of his phony bullshit and other comments mocking the counterfeit brainwashing media. Yet when a stereotypical phony “liberal” feminist clicks on the same video, she’ll be presented with comments that agree with her gun-grabbing ideology. In effect, we’re being self-imprisoned on these tiny Internet islands where we can’t reach out to one another.
Google can control who and what we interact with and see, and so divide and conquer the mind of the population. It’s a good strategy to quell dissent; when I click on a controversial news video or article, I unwillingly come in contact with opinions that tend to support my own, and so I leave with the sense that there is a consensus on a particular world event like Sandy Hook. This engineering of a false consensus has the effect of pacifying the people, making them content in their beliefs. In being content, they became lazy and stop questioning the world and discussing reality with those around them.
By forcing the ignorant to be separate from the wise, from the stupid, from the trolls, even, this system of division is impeding the social development of humanity at large. The typical person on the Internet is confined within their own little bubble of information–a literal reservation matrix.
The vast majority of modern people only interact with the world around them through the lens of the Internet. Everything they know–and much of where their worldview comes from–is directly influenced through what they experience online. By allowing a cabal of government/corporate entities with advanced technologies in their disposal to regulate what an individual interacts with online, they can shape and guide the development of one’s mind.
We are, quite literally, being domesticated through sophisticated weaponized psychology.
Most of human history and its accumulated knowledge is already immersed on the Internet; within our lifetimes all of it will be in the cloud, soon enough the entire population will be hardwired into the Internet, in one way or another. It’s conceivable that our entire species’ recorded collective experience–all of our history and knowledge–can be manipulated and censored by predatory algorithms that can gradually and insidiously edit the data to keep the truths from us. The beast supercomputers can sift through the entire Internet and gradually edit out certain sensitive or undesirable information–even change audio files and manipulate videos. In recent years, everyone’s identity is being lassoed to the Internet, such that there is no longer anonymity and free exchange. Certain people can be effectively silenced. The Internet with which I come into contact might be an entirely different Internet than the one others see. By socially engineering groups and confining certain people within these restricted informational reservations, reality and social/cultural trends can be manufactured.
It’s such a passive and insidious strategy. Just as a virus entering a cell coats itself with the host’s own membrane, masquerading as self to elude detection, this beast computer consciousness uses our own information and our own architecture to elude our defenses and gain entrance into our collective mind.
In short, why the fuck is this even happening? And why isn’t THIS IMAGE one of the most terrifying things anyone has ever seen?
I'm not sure where the "undue burden" criteria comes in. Is there precedent for that?
But it's really beside the point. I agree that others will ask for the same help and that Apple will suffer as a consequence. But this is a commercial argument, not a privacy argument. I have (surprisingly) found myself agreeing with the DOJ on this. There is no Orwellian threat to privacy here. But there is a commercial threat to Apple and its band. MHO, that is not grounds for refusal.
Encryption must work for everyone or it works for no one. Encryption is what stands between you, everything you own and every hacker on Earth.
The worldwide end of encryption isn't in play here. Apple can't decrypt the phone and isn't being asked to. It's being asked to allow the FBI to mount a passcode search.
Let's say Apple agrees and the FBI opens the phone. What then? The US gov't may well ask for this again. But they have a legal warrant for the information. There are due process protections in place, whether you want to believe it or not.
It's also plausible that countries without the same legal oversight will ask Apple based on this precedent. What then? It may be that Apple will be forced to withdraw from or change the products they sell in countries like China. Again, that's a commercial argument, not a privacy argument.
I understand that the US government has lost the trust of many people on this issue. But for all of the Snowden-incited hysteria about government overreach (and I agree that the NSA did overreach) there hasn't been any documented harm to anyone as a result. Why not? Because there actually is an oversight system. Snowden's original concern (and it was valid) was that the data collection was in excess of what was authorized by law and that eventually there might be harm. Since then he's gone off the deep end and apparently believes that Putin's Russia is a more open and democratic society than the US. Good luck with that, Ed.
There's a totally different set of issues at play here. Tim Cook and Apple are playing on people's valid fears and concerns to protect their own commercial interests. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric.
There is far more to this than just breaking in to the iPhone. There is a great blog article by a Forensics expert regarding this wish of the FBI. He explains how one of the biggest problems is when things hit the courts and information found on the phone is involved. Here is the URL to the article. I found it extremely enlightening as I had never thought about this part of the problem. http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645
Enlightening indeed. Makes you wonder why this story is not being told on the nightly national news. We know! . Also if the "claim" by the FBI is that what they are concerned about, is there may be others involved in future terrorist activity that could be revealed by the contents of the phone, then it would be just information that they seek and not evidence that needs to stand up in court. So it is all bullshit and anything we read about on the Internet is just that and a waste of our time.
JeffA2 said: You don't get to make that judgment. Whether you agree with the FBI's request or find it an attack on privacy, these investigators have a legal warrant to search that phone. Your opinion of the odds don't come into it at all.
A search warrant does NOT legally compel Apple or any law-abiding citizen to do anything to clean up a law enforcement agency's screw-up, nor to destroy their business in so doing. Apple is within their rights (and responsibilities) to try to appeal said writ.
As for my opinion on the odds, your opinion is equally meaningless, if not more so. I am within my rights to express an opinion on motives of the so-called investigators. With due respect to law enforcement personnel everywhere, were there not already precedence of the Federal government's repeated overreach vis-a-vis Privacy and Encryption, your disagreement might have merit. As such, I can make that judgement all day long, TYVM. I do not for one second believe the FBI thinks they're going to find their "magic bullet" locked within that one little iPhone, as they claim to be pinning their hopes upon. Instead, this is a CYA operation to cover their own goof-up, and are willing to throw a major US corporation under the bus, along with the millions of their customers that depend upon them, just to save face. Meanwhile, their higher-ups are using this to set legal precedence against private sector encryption, which is an even more egregious act.
Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually. ...
Fixed it for you...
The problem is violence. I have yet to see a gun run out and harm someone. Since it is a specific enumerated right in the constitution, change the constitution if you don't like it. Leave the gun rants for the gun control websites.
Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed. (Source: Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, Aldine, 1997)
If that limited goal was true they would not have demanded, via their magistrate, the DELIVERY of the software masterkey to open iPhones.
There would still be All Writs Act of 1789 issues had they really been focused on the one phone as seen by placing the phone in Apple's possession under FBI continuous supervision to maintain the evidence trail, but they didn't, they went the mastery demand.
Possibly panicked by the skepticism voiced by Judge Ornstein in the Brooklyn, Feng case on a similar issue (opening an iPhone).
Just the fact that he says this proves he's not listening, or doesn't care. The truth is that what he asks for is not possible. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
He is implying that if Apple modifies the phone to allow unlimited, rapid attempts, then that will not permit them, or anyone else, to use that on any other phone. Great in principle except, as pointed out before, at a minimum it sets a precedent to make a court-sanctioned request for more than just information, would demonstrate that this vulnerability exists, and sets the bar much higher for the level of assistance LE can expect from third parties in an investigation. In the worst case, he is wrong, and it does become a master key.
It's also a blatant lie as what is demanded with the current court order is for the DELIVERY of masterkey software to disable iPhone security features TO the FBI. At which point they pinkie swear to "only" use it on the one ipHone? Believe that and I've a bridge to sell you.
Comments
When you sell a Maserati to some one who can't drive, don't be surprised when they wreck it.
Federal Bumbling Idiots... but wait, come cover our asses.
I digress.
Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries and 11,208 deaths by homicide, 21,175 by suicide with a firearm, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms. And lastly, more of our youth are killed with guns every year than die in auto accidents.
Come, do your job with the resources you have or go find another job!
Already the social engineers are dividing us entirely, confusing the tongue, and making it difficult to communicate effectively. On Google and YouTube, comments and videos are filtered such that you only come in contact with certain predetermined material derived by social algorithms. They make it nearly impossible to discover new random channels and points of view. When you click on a video and scroll down, you’re presented with preselected comments that jive with the opinions you tend to agree with and made to jump through hoops of inconvenience to look at all the other discussions taking place.
Since Google is so influential, this sort of strategy is largely finding its way into every facet of the corporate-controlled Internet. This means that when I click on a video, say of the puppet Obama fake crying about Sandy Hook, I will see comments that are critical of his phony bullshit and other comments mocking the counterfeit brainwashing media. Yet when a stereotypical phony “liberal” feminist clicks on the same video, she’ll be presented with comments that agree with her gun-grabbing ideology. In effect, we’re being self-imprisoned on these tiny Internet islands where we can’t reach out to one another.
Google can control who and what we interact with and see, and so divide and conquer the mind of the population. It’s a good strategy to quell dissent; when I click on a controversial news video or article, I unwillingly come in contact with opinions that tend to support my own, and so I leave with the sense that there is a consensus on a particular world event like Sandy Hook. This engineering of a false consensus has the effect of pacifying the people, making them content in their beliefs. In being content, they became lazy and stop questioning the world and discussing reality with those around them.
By forcing the ignorant to be separate from the wise, from the stupid, from the trolls, even, this system of division is impeding the social development of humanity at large. The typical person on the Internet is confined within their own little bubble of information–a literal reservation matrix.
The vast majority of modern people only interact with the world around them through the lens of the Internet. Everything they know–and much of where their worldview comes from–is directly influenced through what they experience online. By allowing a cabal of government/corporate entities with advanced technologies in their disposal to regulate what an individual interacts with online, they can shape and guide the development of one’s mind.
We are, quite literally, being domesticated through sophisticated weaponized psychology.
Most of human history and its accumulated knowledge is already immersed on the Internet; within our lifetimes all of it will be in the cloud, soon enough the entire population will be hardwired into the Internet, in one way or another. It’s conceivable that our entire species’ recorded collective experience–all of our history and knowledge–can be manipulated and censored by predatory algorithms that can gradually and insidiously edit the data to keep the truths from us. The beast supercomputers can sift through the entire Internet and gradually edit out certain sensitive or undesirable information–even change audio files and manipulate videos. In recent years, everyone’s identity is being lassoed to the Internet, such that there is no longer anonymity and free exchange. Certain people can be effectively silenced. The Internet with which I come into contact might be an entirely different Internet than the one others see. By socially engineering groups and confining certain people within these restricted informational reservations, reality and social/cultural trends can be manufactured.
It’s such a passive and insidious strategy. Just as a virus entering a cell coats itself with the host’s own membrane, masquerading as self to elude detection, this beast computer consciousness uses our own information and our own architecture to elude our defenses and gain entrance into our collective mind.
WE WERE WARNED ABOUT THIS.
Let's say Apple agrees and the FBI opens the phone. What then? The US gov't may well ask for this again. But they have a legal warrant for the information. There are due process protections in place, whether you want to believe it or not.
It's also plausible that countries without the same legal oversight will ask Apple based on this precedent. What then? It may be that Apple will be forced to withdraw from or change the products they sell in countries like China. Again, that's a commercial argument, not a privacy argument.
I understand that the US government has lost the trust of many people on this issue. But for all of the Snowden-incited hysteria about government overreach (and I agree that the NSA did overreach) there hasn't been any documented harm to anyone as a result. Why not? Because there actually is an oversight system. Snowden's original concern (and it was valid) was that the data collection was in excess of what was authorized by law and that eventually there might be harm. Since then he's gone off the deep end and apparently believes that Putin's Russia is a more open and democratic society than the US. Good luck with that, Ed.
There's a totally different set of issues at play here. Tim Cook and Apple are playing on people's valid fears and concerns to protect their own commercial interests. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric.
As for my opinion on the odds, your opinion is equally meaningless, if not more so. I am within my rights to express an opinion on motives of the so-called investigators. With due respect to law enforcement personnel everywhere, were there not already precedence of the Federal government's repeated overreach vis-a-vis Privacy and Encryption, your disagreement might have merit. As such, I can make that judgement all day long, TYVM. I do not for one second believe the FBI thinks they're going to find their "magic bullet" locked within that one little iPhone, as they claim to be pinning their hopes upon. Instead, this is a CYA operation to cover their own goof-up, and are willing to throw a major US corporation under the bus, along with the millions of their customers that depend upon them, just to save face. Meanwhile, their higher-ups are using this to set legal precedence against private sector encryption, which is an even more egregious act.
The problem is violence. I have yet to see a gun run out and harm someone. Since it is a specific enumerated right in the constitution, change the constitution if you don't like it. Leave the gun rants for the gun control websites.
Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed. (Source: Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, Aldine, 1997)
There would still be All Writs Act of 1789 issues had they really been focused on the one phone as seen by placing the phone in Apple's possession under FBI continuous supervision to maintain the evidence trail, but they didn't, they went the mastery demand.
Possibly panicked by the skepticism voiced by Judge Ornstein in the Brooklyn, Feng case on a similar issue (opening an iPhone).
It's also a blatant lie as what is demanded with the current court order is for the DELIVERY of masterkey software to disable iPhone security features TO the FBI. At which point they pinkie swear to "only" use it on the one ipHone? Believe that and I've a bridge to sell you.
The guy is full of shit.