Bill Gates sides with FBI on Apple encryption fight, says scope is limited to one iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 149
    Simplistic argument rife with assumptions of FBI sincerity regarding this request as merely an individual case.
    As for the "ribbon tied around the disk" metaphor, eye-rolling naivety...
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 62 of 149
    …if Bill disagrees with Apple, he’s obviously a “statist”…
    Common Core. Your argument’s destroyed.
  • Reply 63 of 149
    Considering MS's track record with both privacy and security, I deny Gates' qualifications to comment on the issue!
    baconstangwilliamlondonAnipscooter63dysamoriapalomine
  • Reply 64 of 149
    Gee Bill, I wonder how many terrorists use Windows phones?   They may be evil, but they're no stupid.
    brakkenAni
  • Reply 65 of 149
    lwiolwio Posts: 100member
    It's almost like some people have have not heard of the the word precedent.

    It will start with this and eventually thanks to the Legal system Apple will be sued to open little Mary's phone to see if she did stay over in her friends house.


    Anidysamoria
  • Reply 66 of 149
    What do you expect from the ex head of one the government's most faithful lapdogs, Microsoft? While other companies were resisting creating security backdoors for US government agencies, Microsoft would happily give it away to secure government business. In a way, Bill became the biggest traitor to his customers, by selling  your and my personal info to the US government behind our backs, which made Microsoft the main operating system of the world and made him billions of dollars. Microsoft has always lied to the consumer, by telling them that their da6a was safe and protected with Microsoft products. Microsoft turned the once safevand secure Skype program into a mass surveillance malware for the US government right after it was acquired by Microsoft. Bill's support for the FBI comes to us as a no surprise. This guy is a backstabber and a lier. 
    brakkenAnispinnydhlee1169
  • Reply 67 of 149
    noivadnoivad Posts: 186member
    We have to remember, Bill Gates is not a lawyer. Despite his company’s many legal battles, he might not fully understand how precedents and the legal “goal posts” are moved back and forth. Deconstructing language and reconstructing intent of those words in prior cases to fit their goal is used by lawyers all the time to argue for widening what looks to be a narrow precedent to expand it to full legality further strengthening it. It is also used to narrow things that are considered too wide as well. This narrow-to-wide powers technique is exactly how the law is being used right now.
  • Reply 68 of 149
    What did you expect ?
  • Reply 69 of 149
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,610member

    "This is a specific case where the government is asking for access to information. They are not asking for some general thing, they are asking for a particular case," Gates said. "It is no different than [the question of] should anybody ever have been able to tell the phone company to get information, should anybody be able to get at bank records. Let's say the bank had tied a ribbon round the disk drive and said 'don't make me cut this ribbon because you'll make me cut it many times'."


    This is proof that Bill Gates does not know what the issue is. Or what's he's talking about. 

    The FBI is not asking Apple to hand over the data in this one iPhone. The FBI is not asking for Apple to break the encryption on this one iPhone. The FBI is asking Apple to write special software that will allow them (the FBI) to break the encryption on this one iPhone to retrieve the data in it. The FBI is promising that Apple don't have to turn over, to them, the newly create software that defeats the security measures in iOS9 and add the ability to use a computer to enter the passcode (instead of having to punch it in using the touch keyboard), of this one locked iPhone. 

    What the FBI wants and stated in the court order is for Apple to created special software so that the FBI can break into the iPhone and retrieve the data themselves. Why? Because once the software is loaded in that one iPhone and the FBI has possession of that iPhone, the FBI will have the key that can potentially help them break into all iPhones, without Apple's help or a search warrant. The FBI will not return the iPhone nor let Apple be present when they use brute force to break into it. The key will now already be in the wrong hands. 

    This is like a phone company giving the FBI access to all their customers data or a bank giving them the master key to all their customers safety deposit boxes, providing that they promise to only look at the data of the bad guys or return the master key, without making a duplicate, when they're done. Most of us here know how's that's going to turn out. 

    This is not like asking for the data they have or cutting the ribbon around one hard drive and retrieving the data. This is the FBI asking Apple to construct the special scissors needed to cut the ribbon around this one hard drive and hand over the scissors to the FBI (along with the hard drive), so that they can find a way to modify scissors to cut the ribbon around all similar hard drives.

    Maybe Bill Gate would understand if the FBI forced MS to build a backdoor into their Windows OS and hand them the key. Oh, I forgot, MS did just that, without the FBI even having to use any harsh language. I imagine it went something like this ………..

    FBI-  Build us a back door in Windows that can monitor all users, give us the key and we'll see to it that Windows will be use on all government agencies computers. 

    Gates- You forgot to say "please".

    FBI- Please

    Gates- Done deal.  
    edited February 2016 baconstangAnipscooter63dysamoriaspinnyd
  • Reply 70 of 149
    "They are not asking for some general thing, they are asking for a particular case," Gates said. "It is no different than [the question of] should anybody ever have been able to tell the phone company to get information, should anybody be able to get at bank records. Let's say the bank had tied a ribbon round the disk drive and said 'don't make me cut this ribbon because you'll make me cut it many times'."
    FACTS: (Source: WSJ Feb 19, 2016)
    "In the last six months of 2015, Verizon and AT&T combined received more than a quarter-million requests from law-enforcement agencies in civil and criminal matters and as many as 998 requests in the first six months of 2015 to access customer accounts for national-security reasons, according to transparency reports published by the companies."

    "By comparison, Apple says it received 971 law-enforcement requests for account data stored in users' iCloud or iTunes accounts. In the first half of 2015, the latest data available, and provided at least some data to 81% of them. As many as 499 additional requests were related to national security, according to Apple's transparency report. With much communications traffic shifting from the phone networks to data packets on the internet, monitoring is becoming more complicated"

    In other words, at this rate if the FBI and all the other law-enforcement agencies and prosecutors out there get their way, Apple will be working for the gov't full time 24/7. THAT is a slippery slope.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 71 of 149
    john673 said:
    i find it insensitive for the victims of the families involved in the tragedy that apple are such jerks to capitalize on the situation to advocate for free speech..
    Just take the freakin' iPhone from FBI unlock it and give it back to them 

    This power play is meant to erode privacy & privacy rights by winning over a gullible public that isn’t qualified to consider the risks nor even read what the actual facts* are, and your comment proves it. There’s no guarantee there’s anything on this guy’s work phone. In fact, if asked what is on the phone that they need, that they can’t get elsewhere, they’d have to answer: I don’t know. Which is what 2 year-olds say when you catch them doing something they know is wrong.

    And since you played the “insensitive” card. (1) Citizens do not have the right to not have their feelings hurt. and (2) Actually, some relatives of victims are siding with Apple because they understand the implications & realize public security— thus public safety—is also at risk.

    *read the news: Apple cannot unlock it. If you read the posts from Apple & other security firms, encryption cannot be unlocked without the key. The person who had the key is dead. The phone’s iCloud account had its password reset while in FBI custody. (If Apple had been consulted before they did that they would have known it would mean they locked the only route into the phone because changing your iCloud password means to reconnect a device you have to unlock the device and enter the new password to enable iCloud access). The iCloud backup was turned it off weeks before the crime, but they have backup from (?)6 weeks ago. Apple does not currently have the means to unlock or get to the data on the phone thanks to full device encryption. The order is demanding that Apple create something which undermines their entire security architecture meant to protect customers.

    “Those who would give up essential liberty** to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    **If you look up what the founding fathers considered “essential liberty” a few things that would pop up are “security” & “privacy.”

    edited February 2016 spinnydhlee1169
  • Reply 72 of 149
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,610member

    snova said:
    I wonder how the US government would react if the the country which was asking for back door tool from Apple was Iran or China? 

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-china-idUSKBN0LY2H520150302

    Kind of ironic that the US government seems to care more about the privacy of China's citizens than the privacy of their own citizens. 
    brakken
  • Reply 73 of 149
    he is right though, it is just one phone.
    but when they are done with that phone others will ask and then states will want that tool used to get in. 
  • Reply 74 of 149
    snova said:
    I wonder how the US government would react if the the country which was asking for back door tool from Apple was Iran or China? 
    Agree me too. Waiting for the next update.
  • Reply 75 of 149
    davidw said:

    "This is a specific case where the government is asking for access to information. They are not asking for some general thing, they are asking for a particular case," Gates said. "It is no different than [the question of] should anybody ever have been able to tell the phone company to get information, should anybody be able to get at bank records. Let's say the bank had tied a ribbon round the disk drive and said 'don't make me cut this ribbon because you'll make me cut it many times'."


    This is proof that Bill Gates does not know what the issue is. Or what's he's talking about. 

    The FBI is not asking Apple to hand over the data in this one iPhone. The FBI is not asking for Apple to break the encryption on this one iPhone. The FBI is asking Apple to write special software that will allow them (the FBI) to break the encryption on this one iPhone to retrieve the data in it. The FBI is promising that Apple don't have to turn over, to them, the newly create software that defeats the security measures in iOS9 and add the ability to use a computer to enter the passcode (instead of having to punch it in using the touch keyboard), of this one locked iPhone. 

    What the FBI wants and stated in the court order is for Apple to created special software so that the FBI can break into the iPhone and retrieve the data themselves. Why? Because once the software is loaded in that one iPhone and the FBI has possession of that iPhone, the FBI will have the key that can potentially help them break into all iPhones, without Apple's help or a search warrant. The FBI will not return the iPhone nor let Apple be present when they use brute force to break into it. The key will now already be in the wrong hands. 

    This is like a phone company giving the FBI access to all their customers data or a bank giving them the master key to all their customers safety deposit boxes, providing that they promise to only look at the data of the bad guys or return the master key, without making a duplicate, when they're done. Most of us here know how's that's going to turn out. 

    This is not like asking for the data they have or cutting the ribbon around one hard drive and retrieving the data. This is the FBI asking Apple to construct the special scissors needed to cut the ribbon around this one hard drive and hand over the scissors to the FBI (along with the hard drive), so that they can find a way to modify scissors to cut the ribbon around all similar hard drives.

    Maybe Bill Gate would understand if the FBI forced MS to build a backdoor into their Windows OS and hand them the key. Oh, I forgot, MS did just that, without the FBI even having to use any harsh language. I imagine it went something like this ………..

    FBI-  Build us a back door in Windows that can monitor all users, give us the key and we'll see to it that Windows will be use on all government agencies computers. 

    Gates- You forgot to say "please".

    FBI- Please

    Gates- Done deal.  
    I'm suspecting that Apple could, without too much trouble, whip up a Master Key and build a time lock of some description. As soon as the date is up, the software becomes unsignable just like with an app or an older version of iOS. I know I'm revealing my ignorance, but it would be good for all those idiots to think they have a way to undermine Apple and all its customers, and then have a 'Please update your operating system to the latest version' to make it functional again.

    And Apple can charge each instance about 1b$US to make up for all the cash that MS and SS stole from them. I just want Apple to find a way to permanently wipe that slimy smirk of Gates' face for good.
  • Reply 76 of 149
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    bugsnw said:
    Apple, take the phone, get the data off of it, and give the data to the FBI. Then do what you want with whatever method you used to crack that phone.
    Apple, take the phone, run your hastily cobbled together alpha software on it and say whoops, looks like it got wiped.  Damn, it's obvious now that colon should have been a comma.
  • Reply 77 of 149
    Everyone, including Bill Gates, who thinks this is about just one iPhone really should read this article: http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645. It explains, clearly and thoughtfully, the legal ramifications of the FBI's request.
    Thanks for the link. It's by far the best explanation I have seen so far. It's a MUST READ !!!
    pscooter63dysamoriahlee1169
  • Reply 78 of 149
    The Washington Post is today reporting that the DoJ want to decrypt a further dozen phones (but the DoJ is being quiet about it) none of which are anything to do with Terrorism but the FBI just want one looked at. NCIS (I watch TV) probably want a few dozen, the CSI will want copies of everything everyone else breaks into and the NSA will just want them all. ...The slippery slope beckons...
    edited February 2016 lwiodysamoria
  • Reply 79 of 149
    Who are these 'others,' and why won't they reveal themselves?
    dysamoria
  • Reply 80 of 149
    john673 said:
    I hope the US government gives them an ultimatum to pay their taxes that they've been evading for years or deport them all to Ireland
    they aren't evading any taxes. they are paying all they are legally obliged to. they don't write the laws. they just follow them. 
    hlee1169tallest skil
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