Apple rails against FBI demands for 'GovtOS' in motion to vacate decryption request

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  • Reply 21 of 33
    GovtOS v1.1 will include the new applet allowing the FBI and local  Parks and Recreation Commission to secretly take stills and video from your phone. This new feature will be affectionately called the Telescreen.  

    To continue using your phone without GovtOS features,  download the new firmware from snowdenOS.ru    Not available in all market areas.
    If you use SnowdenOS, it'll download all your sensitive data and send it off to journalists for further dissemination.
    ewtheckman
  • Reply 22 of 33
    Watching this entertaining scrap from another country the positive side is something that hasn't received much attention.

    I don't know offhand what percentage of iPhone customers is Offshore from the US, but I believe it is something like 60% and growing.

    Most american AI contributors seem to have some awareness of the undesirability of enabling foreign agents and governments to hack the iPhone and get access to loads of juicy data ... that can then be used in a myriad of nefarious situations ... suppressing all opposition, accessing confidential and personal information in ways that are incompatible with the rule of law as touted in the US.

    What is missing is the awareness that for the majority of customers, the US government IS a foreign power, and a malicious and dangerous one to boot.

    There are currently two legal actions in the spotlight ... the FBI vs Apple in this case, and the longer running scrap between Microsoft ahd the DOJ relating to access to offshore data (in Ireland in this case) by US authorities. In the Microsoft case, it is a particularly ironic fact that the DOJ is attempting to force Microsoft to break EU law .... while at the same time professing to do this in the interests of the rule of law. Delicious !!!

    Remember the Boston Tea Party ... "no taxation without representation" ??? Why is it so difficult for Americans to understand that people in other countries are reluctant to allow the US legal system, owned by the 1% and disfigured to the point that it is simply bizarre, to extend its greedy fingers worldwide ... For the same reason that I don't get to vote in the US elections, YOU do not get to vote in the EU ... but still enjoy the fundamental rights and freedoms incorporated in the EU Charter and are equally protected by EU laws when in its geographical domain. The converse is unfortunately not true. I think you get my point here.

    But the positive side is clear enough. So far, the take-home lessons are clear.

    "The Cloud" is unprotected. Apple has already emphasized that everything from the person involved has already been made available to the FBI.   To customers outside the US, the message is clear ... DONT USE US Cloud services. EVER. And remember that the extensive use of NSL and gagging orders, together with the secret courts, repeated invocations of "National Security" and the vagaries of the US legal system in general mean that you have NO possibilities of knowing exactly what the US government is doing behind the curtains of secrecy and that you have NO possibilities of ever successfully challenging the legality of these actions under US law ... not to speak of challenging them under foreign law.

    So as Brad Smith of Microsoft says: if the Government wins on this, it's a K.O for US companies on the international market.

    The other posive point is that it is also the death-strike for the IoT.

    So I'm enjoying the entertainment of watching the US Government dig its own grave and eternally grateful to Apple for bringing this to an open fight for my rights. Frankly I don't think Apple will win in the long run ... but neither will any of the billions of private, law-abiding and peaceful citizens of countries outside of the US. .. the great majority of the world population. 

    And for you Americans ... do you REALLY think that anyone can trust you ? With President Trump ????????
    fracpalomineewtheckman
  • Reply 23 of 33
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
  • Reply 24 of 33
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    ^^^ taniwha, great post, thanks. 

    In addition, check out Jake in Seoul's post on PED's blog today:

    http://fortune.com/author/philip-elmer-dewitt/

    By the way, if there's a President Trump, it's finally bedtime for democracy, as Jello Biafra prophesied. America's television version of democracy, that is.

    The key to Trump's support, and the accelerating angry stupidity of American public opinion, is television news/entertainment. His followers are still watching, and are driven crazy as a result. 

    Further edit: Crazy right-wing talk radio also bears responsibility for Trump's insane following. So far, I haven't seen any journalist identify "voter anger" as a pathology.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 25 of 33
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    taniwha said:

    What is missing is the awareness that for the majority of customers, the US government IS a foreign power, and a malicious and dangerous one to boot.

    As smart and informed as many here pretend to be, at the end of the day they are still mostly under the delusion the US govt. is some kind of benevolent entity...whereas other countries view the US as one of most horrific oppressors in the world.
  • Reply 26 of 33
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    taniwha said:
    ...

    The other posive point is that it is also the death-strike for the IoT.

    So I'm enjoying the entertainment of watching the US Government dig its own grave and eternally grateful to Apple for bringing this to an open fight for my rights. Frankly I don't think Apple will win in the long run ... but neither will any of the billions of private, law-abiding and peaceful citizens of countries outside of the US. .. the great majority of the world population. 

    And for you Americans ... do you REALLY think that anyone can trust you ? With President Trump ????????
    Nothing can trump that.

    I'm not sure most U.S.A. citizens know what country they live in and how its perceived in other parts of the world. What's immediately clear for someone not from the US, arriving in the US, namely arriving in a police state, the arrogance and lack of humor, is perhaps not visible to people inside the US.
    Anyone who noticed Reagan discussing (in earnest) a 'limited' nuclear war against the SU on European soil knows what ethics the US stands for (I guess some people in Japan can attest to that).

    So I agree, the US has no moral and no ethics regarding (people in) other nations, and it's clear that they also lack for citizens within the US.

    edited February 2016
  • Reply 27 of 33

    Apple could implement this feature and appease everyone.

    1) Implement multi-user accounts. Have a hidden account that is a "Government" account.

    2) When the government (FBI) signs into the account, have a popup that asks them for the Court Order ID. On the Distant End, Apples Servers, there will be a database of court orders, as well as the permissions allowed by the court order.

    3) The server authenticates the ID and sends back the permissions the user (FBI) is allowed, for example, being able to view iMessage and phone calls only, or the settings, and also whether they're able to send or receive text messages, etc.

    4) If the Court ID is wrong then it'll just be a blank page of no apps, no notifications, no connectivity to the cell network,


    I didn't go into very specific details such as tunneling, but you get the point.

  • Reply 28 of 33
    That was a very interesting motion to read. I think there is no way that Apple loses this appeal.
  • Reply 29 of 33
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member
    Attaeus said:
    Where is this mythical buddy you speak of? Did it ever occur to any of you boot-licking, authoritarian gun lovers that the time to catch the terrorists was BEFORE they killed all those innocent people? 
    "This mythical buddy" was identified within a couple of days of the shootings. Have you been sleeping too much lately?

    As for "catching criminals before they commit crimes" ... seriously, you need to think through what you just said.
  • Reply 30 of 33
    steveh said:
    Attaeus said:
    Where is this mythical buddy you speak of? Did it ever occur to any of you boot-licking, authoritarian gun lovers that the time to catch the terrorists was BEFORE they killed all those innocent people? 
    "This mythical buddy" was identified within a couple of days of the shootings. Have you been sleeping too much lately?

    As for "catching criminals before they commit crimes" ... seriously, you need to think through what you just said.
    Indeed:

  • Reply 31 of 33
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    steveh said:
    Attaeus said:
    Where is this mythical buddy you speak of? Did it ever occur to any of you boot-licking, authoritarian gun lovers that the time to catch the terrorists was BEFORE they killed all those innocent people? 
    "This mythical buddy" was identified within a couple of days of the shootings. Have you been sleeping too much lately?

    As for "catching criminals before they commit crimes" ... seriously, you need to think through what you just said.

    I think you need to think through what he meant. 

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/6/14/1216187/-Director-Mueller-9-11-Hijackers-were-in-Fact-Under-NSA-Surveillance

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-san-bernardino-shooters-preplanning-20151209-story.html

    You actually think that our government only spies on the people that already committed a crime? The point of them surveying all internet traffic, phone calls. people on no fly list, people that visit Middle East countries, etc.,  is to catch the criminals before they commit a crime. Our government had every opportunity to "catch these criminals before they committed 911 and the San Bernardino attack. 
  • Reply 32 of 33
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    If Apple did it, and in the course of updating the phone all the data was wiped due to a bug in the software that was not previously discovered, would the FBI files charges against Apple?  That to me is a major worry.  Doubt it will come to that anyway as the FBI has overplayed their hand in this one.
  • Reply 33 of 33
    Boy, I'll bet people are regretting ever having supported Obama (the Commander in Chief, aka the person who commands the FBI, NSA and military).
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