Obama administration, FBI must act to restore US government's credibility in Apple's encryption deb

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  • Reply 101 of 126
    Hay, AppleInsider: other forums assign certain topics to an area where anyone can post BUT only if they have a hundred previous posts. That is, newbies can read but not post.

    This would be a good plan for you to adopt.
    latifbpjony0
  • Reply 102 of 126
    sog35 said:

    with that logic, what's currently stopping an Apple developer from developing the crack on their own, like you said it's worth tens of billions of dollars. There are developers within Apple that have access to the encryption code so what's stopping them from creating the back door at home and becoming filthy rich?

    You're talking about how dangerous this crack would be if terrorists got their hands on it but at the same time you have no problem protecting their right for their data to remain private and plan out attacks communicating over iPhones and iPads because even if they are killed all possible intelligence that could be recovered is safely protected by Apple. 

    And no, I don't believe terrorists or mobsters would kidnap anyone because if it was that simple to kidnap someone for that purpose, what's stopping them from doing it now? You're watching too many action flicks...
    Apple has safeguards in place to make sure no Apple employee writes code for a backdoor for iOS. '

    Again I ask would you be okay if the government or corporation created a machine that could read people's minds?  Would you?
    Yes that mind reading machine may help solve some cases but the possibility of it landing in the wrong hands is too much of a risk to build. This is not about the rights/privacy of the dead terrorist.  This is about the rights and privacy and SAFETY of every single US citizen. If Apple gives in you know darn well that Android will be forced to do the same.

    And why the hell do you think there is any important information on that iPHone?  The terrorist destroyed their personal phones and computers. Why do you think they didn't bother destroying the company iPhone? Does not take a genius to figure it out.

    There would be no reason for a terrorist or mobster to kidnap an Apple engineer because no Apple engineer has built a backdoor to iOS. 20 years ago people thought terrorist flying planes into the World Trade Center was crazy.  You'd probably be accused of watching too many action flicks. The lesson is don't underestimate the terrorist and to what desperate lengths they will go to.  It is not out of question that they would try any means necessary to steal or recreate a backdoor to iOS if Apple built it.
    Seriously, now you're talking about mind reading devices???

    Tell me about these safeguards that prevent people from working on a code at home? Go ahead, explain how Apple can ensure that someone's personal computer, held in the privacy of their own home can't be used to write a crack for the encryption.

    And no, no one 20 ago would think you were crazy about commercial planes being used as weapons because 10 years prior to 9/11 there that there was a plot to blow up a hijacked plane over Eiffel Tower.

    "The lesson is don't underestimate the terrorist and to what desperate lengths they will go to" - then why ensure there is a safe tool with unbreakable encryption for them to use to communicate on?
  • Reply 103 of 126
    The FBI (in this case) reminds me of the video I once saw in which the cop said, "If you have nothing to hide you'll let us search your car." No. No. No. Sometimes there are some people in authority positions who don't understand the concept of liberty. We don't belong to the government.
    latifbp
  • Reply 104 of 126
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,745member
    thedba said:
    apple ][ said:
    I assume that not all of those 175 suspects are dead, so they should use other methods to gain access, without compromising my security and the security of all other Apple users. Let them waterboard the suspects, I don't care. Just do not mess with my security.
    I just knew that "the Donald" in you would come out. 
    I have long been a supporter of that years before "the Donald" ever mentioned anything about it. When he did mention it, I obviously agreed 100% and I was extremely happy.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 105 of 126
    I thought that the legal system is there to penalize someone for doing something. How the heck can it force someone to do something? The only way I have heard of this is in the punishment phase. Si the Government now saying that a programmer has to write code a certain way? Funny how all these authoritarians on both side of the isle no nothing about what freedom really is.
  • Reply 106 of 126
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    plovell said:

    Apple has the social responsibility to cooperate with the government on the safety of its citizenry. Surely they have the expertise to unlock one phone without creating a backdoor software, which can then be destroyed after its specific use for one phone. If one more death occurs from this one unlocked phone, Apple would have blood on their hands.

    Mag, you are quite right "Apple has the social responsibility to cooperate with the government on the safety of its citizenry". And that is what it has done. It is choosing to protect the many against the few.

    "Surely they have the expertise to unlock one phone without creating a backdoor software, which can then be destroyed after its specific use for one phone"
    That is a nice theory but perhaps you haven't noticed that the FBI has 9 (or 12) other cases 
    pending. It's not "just this one" no matter how much Director Comey says it is. And the New York DA says that he has 175 cases. 

    "If one more death occurs from this one unlocked phone, Apple would have blood on their hands."
    I guess you aren't thinking at all about the people who are protected by the unavailability of their private information to the governments of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and others. So, to point the question back to you for your consideration - how many deaths of dissidents in these countries will it take for you to accept that the blood is on your hands? If one more death occurs from Apple having to hack this one phone, then the blood is on your hands.

    Chew that over before you post again.
    People like her who use "blood on their hands" argument make my blood curl.

    First the FBi themselves admitted there it nothing else to be gained.
    Secondly, even if there was something on there, the chance that is actionable intelligence, is extraordinarily remote.
    Most of the crap intelligence agencies collect, even from real live terrorists is useless.
    Also, even if it were actionable, we're now in the immensely remote, the chance the FBi could actually connect the dots and stop the event in time would be nearly zero (as has been seen in many cases were they had the intelligence, 911, Boston bombing, etc)
    Finally, it assumes that even if it connected the dots it could actually potentially stop the event; they'd get a full picture to arrest and convict the right people.
    That's unlikely in the immediate aftermath and implausible months later.
    Most of the people that were doing the flying courses pre-911 had not really done anything wrong, even talking to a known terrorist wouldn't be enough to arrest them.

    They'd at most question people and have to release them. That's very very inconvenient, but that inconvenience is what makes a democracy great.

    So, say they by a miracle of miracle they get all those ridiculous things lined up, a being killed by an asteroid event (1 in many tens of billion event), you've given up all privacy and security for that once in a blue moon event that may or may not happen.

    Stopping violence before they happen is very very hard; people that are angry/fearful adhere to the "just world" and think that giving up all their liberty/privacy will works miracles. That terrorist will just "play ball" and make it easy for people to catch them by being predictable and dumb.

    The only real way to stop violence, even terrorism, is removing the seeds of it which comes from poverty, despair and alienation. Making people fearful works in the absolute opposite way to what's needed.





    punkndrublic
  • Reply 107 of 126
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,151member
    Actions by the leadership of the Federal Bureau of Investigation over the past month related to the San Bernardino encryption issue demonstrate a shocking level of dishonest and callous disregard for the nation's core principles of democracy. FBI director James B. Comey should issue a formal apology or resign his post, AppleInsider's Daniel Eran Dilger argues.

    That alone is reason enough for Comey to immediately dial down the FBI's rhetoric and withdraw the demands for a back door from Apple, made without the consultation of Congress having the opportunity to fully debate the issues involved without the fervent, rushed emotionalism this public smear campaign is attempting to leverage.
    Free speech and freedom of assembly do not apply to plots to commit mass murder. The public has a legitimate right to reconstruct all the activities of the terrorist couple that led up to the atrocity. Furthermore, the phone itself belongs to San Bernardino County, meaning its taxpayers. Finally, please keep in mind that the argument you are trying to assert would have protected Richard Nixon, if it were a valid one. It didn't, because it wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg could not have published the Pentagon Papers if the public did not have a right to know. You are on a slippery slope, Apple, no matter how enamored you might be of your position and your privacy. Again, just as Richard Nixon was, this particular terrorist was a public employee, so shielding his phone from scrutiny would be the equivalent of shielding Richard Nixon from being scrutinized for his workplace behavior...
    Then the tax payer should make use of tools provided by Apple to retain complete control of the digital state of their property. This is why device management systems exist. The tax payer should be highly pissed at the government entities that dropped the ball on properly protecting assets they had at their disposal. 

    Why should Apple send more resources and diminish the value of their products to other customers  covering up government incompetence when they have already given them a number of layer of tools the government has failed to deploy correctly?
  • Reply 108 of 126
    1) The accumulation of power through financial means results in the death of democracy
    2) The people in the US who hold true to the Constitution and its Amendments are now the minority and the enemy
    3) Apple believes it has the power to stand up to the Powers That Be
    4) The PTB believes it has the power to push through their agenda unconstitutionally
    5) DED still writes the best articles on the Internet
    6) I vote Apple!!!
  • Reply 109 of 126

    kamilton said:
    No Privacy = No Liberty

    When the director of the FBI explains the phenomenon described in the below link, then I'll allow a permanent colonoscopy of my personal data.


    Holy fuck.

    I'm just in disbelief. 9/11 was a huge eye-opener for me, and I curse the Bushes every time I think of them, but I believe they were small cogs in a bigger machine. So much BS.

    My most earnest wishes to everyone who acts for truth.
  • Reply 110 of 126
    bradipao said:
    In my opinion Cook should had managed in a completely different way:
    First, to admit that since they can do it, they have to do it because of judge order, even if they don't like it.
    Second, to immediately release an iOS update that prevent any future use of this technique (or similar), even if attempted by Apple itself.
    The best for all parties with bonus increased privacy.
    Your total ignorance of both law and technology is offensive. Please do not post here again.
  • Reply 111 of 126
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,463member
    "Actions by the leadership of the Federal Bureau of Investigation over the past month related to the San Bernardino encryption issue demonstrate a shocking level of dishonest and callous disregard for the nation's core principles of democracy. FBI director James B. Comey should issue a formal apology or resign his post, AppleInsider's Daniel Eran Dilger argues."

    That will be the day; do you see how ridiculous this is?
  • Reply 112 of 126
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,463member
    I thought that the legal system is there to penalize someone for doing something. How the heck can it force someone to do something? The only way I have heard of this is in the punishment phase. Si the Government now saying that a programmer has to write code a certain way? Funny how all these authoritarians on both side of the isle no nothing about what freedom really is.
    I'm not so sure they don't know what freedom is.
    Governments don't like it because freedom is the opposite of control.
  • Reply 113 of 126
    Attaeus said:
    But since it's only about the 4th Amendment and several other ambiguous rights to privacy and intrusion of law enforcement on basic liberties, the right wingers don't care.
    You have obviously not been paying attention. The administration pushing this intrusion is most definitely NOT "right wing". Many of us arguing that Apple is right ARE "right wingers". There are also "left wingers" arguing that Apple is right and "right wingers" arguing on behalf the statist position (which, BTW, is contrary to basic "right wing" principles). The sides on this case and reasons for various positions does not fit the left/right mold.
  • Reply 114 of 126
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    The FBI director must be replaced. He lacks understanding of the internet, technology, cyber criminals. He has shown to be woefully in equipped to fight crime in 2016 and beyond. The director is at a loss as to what tools, systems and data strategies he needs as the premier law enforcement agency of the world. By taking the Apple I-phone case to court is like the cops dialing 911 for help.
    Please stop pretending that Comey, the FBI, or the government in general are inept and don't understand technology.
    Its embarrassing.

    They know exactly what they're doing. It's just not what any American citizen would fantasize that their government does.
  • Reply 115 of 126
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    Mr. Dilger.

    Drama much?
  • Reply 116 of 126
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    spice-boy said:

    apple ][ said:
    Those clowns can not be trusted, and the integrity of Apple's devices and the security of their customers takes precedence over dishonest and foolish demands from incompetent govt agencies.
    If (god forbid) President Trump told Apple to cave would you still have his picture next to your name?
    Vote for Hillary for protection of data.

    She is an expert at it.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 117 of 126
    foggyhill said:
    plovell said:

    Mag, you are quite right "Apple has the social responsibility to cooperate with the government on the safety of its citizenry". And that is what it has done. It is choosing to protect the many against the few.

    "Surely they have the expertise to unlock one phone without creating a backdoor software, which can then be destroyed after its specific use for one phone"
    That is a nice theory but perhaps you haven't noticed that the FBI has 9 (or 12) other cases pending. It's not "just this one" no matter how much Director Comey says it is. And the New York DA says that he has 175 cases. 

    "If one more death occurs from this one unlocked phone, Apple would have blood on their hands."
    I guess you aren't thinking at all about the people who are protected by the unavailability of their private information to the governments of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and others. So, to point the question back to you for your consideration - how many deaths of dissidents in these countries will it take for you to accept that the blood is on your hands? If one more death occurs from Apple having to hack this one phone, then the blood is on your hands.

    Chew that over before you post again.
    (...snip...)

    The only real way to stop violence, even terrorism, is removing the seeds of it which comes from poverty, despair and alienation. Making people fearful works in the absolute opposite way to what's needed.





    Poverty in other countries may be widely a result of Socialist, Marxist and other collectivist political and economic systems in action (many of which are also feudal and warlord controlled) which are all unsustainable. The US cannot be held responsible for the poor choices of other countries, their leaders and their unfortunate citizens. Also, there will ALWAYS be "someone" on the top of the pyramid and "someone" on the bottom. This is a competitive world and (thankfully) we are not living under a single world government, which would doubtless be as big of a mess as the EU is now. The US should never cede our sovereignty to outside influences and in the same way, US foreign policy should be friendly and open to trade will all and have "entangling alliances" with none. There are way too many entangling alliances today.
  • Reply 118 of 126
    Rumor should be started that this terrorist act was one of the many FBI sting operations, but was chosen to not stop, so that FBI chief J Edgar Comey could play his red flag operation out to destroy iOS encryption.
  • Reply 119 of 126

    The SHOCKING truth behind the FBI's pursuit of Apple 
    http://theapplenarrative.simplesite.com/

    And look who agrees with me...Obama's former top intel chief-
  • Reply 120 of 126
    Finally, something ex-NSA Chief General Michael Hayden and I can agree on. This is what General Michael Hayden had to say about encryption and Jim Comey in a recent interview with the WSJ:

    "The issue here is end-to-end unbreakable encryption, should American firms be allowed to create such a thing. You’ve got Jim Comey, the director of the FBI, saying, I am really going to suffer if I can’t read Tony Soprano’s email or if I’ve got to ask Tony for the PIN number before I get to read Tony’s emails. I get it. There is an unarguable downside to unbreakable encryption. On the other side is the question: On balance, is America more or less secure with unbreakable end-to-end encryption, regardless of whether Jim can read Tony’s emails? I think Jim Comey’s wrong. Jim’s logic is based on the belief that he remains the main body and you should accommodate your movements to the movements of him, which is the main body. And I’m telling you, with regard to the cyber domain, he’s not. You are"

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