Apple-FBI battle will set precedent for future court orders, FBI director acknowledges

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in General Discussion
Speaking in front of a Congressional intelligence panel, FBI Director James Comey admitted that the outcome of an Apple-FBI battle over unlocking an iPhone will likely set a legal precedent, despite recent suggestions to the contrary.

Image Credit: Jim Lo Scalzo/EPA
Image Credit: Jim Lo Scalzo/EPA


The final ruling will probably "guide how other courts handle similar requests," Comey told the panel on Thursday, according to The Guardian. The statement is a change in tone from Sunday, when Comey wrote an editorial stating that the case "isn't about trying to set a precedent or send any kind of message."

On Thursday, in fact, Comey also claimed that the case was "unlikely to be a trailblazer," though he added it would be "instructive for other courts." That isn't the agency's intent, he cautioned.

Comey maintained a position that the FBI's request is limited in scope, explaining that legal and technical experts told him the combination of an iPhone 5c and iOS 9 limited the potential applications of the court order. The order is asking Apple not to supply an encryption key, but rather to craft new software to bypass iOS 9's passcode retry limit, which can be set to auto-erase a device when hit. The target phone was owned by Syed Farook, one of the shooters in December's San Bernardino terrorist attack.

Apple has officially filed to vacate the order, arguing that the case would not only set precedent but do so in an unconstitutional manner, paving the way for future rights violations.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    No kidding! Who knew? /s
    MacsAlwayswetlanderhorvaticcornchipjony0
  • Reply 2 of 21
    Um, no kidding Mr. Comey. What's becoming obvious, by way of his tactics, waging a PR war with Apple, and attempting to use the All Writs act to compel a private American company to work on the government's behalf to break its own products - James Comey's handling of this matter is just as incompetent as the investigation itself.
    edited February 2016 MacsAlways
  • Reply 3 of 21
    The more Captain Obvious speaks, the more of his lies are revealed. If Apple loses this fight, they are going to be bombarded from courts around the country, if not the world, requesting copies of GovOS. 
    edited February 2016 MacsAlwaysSpamSandwichjahbladecornchip
  • Reply 4 of 21
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    You mean Comey was lying? Get out. 
    MacsAlwayswetlanderhorvaticewtheckmancornchip
  • Reply 5 of 21
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    ...

    Image Credit Jim Lo ScalzoEPA
    Today, my lips are moving


    ...

    jungmark said:
    You mean Comey was lying? Get out. 
    Amazing what just 24 hours will bring forth.  And if speaking in front of a Congressional intelligence panel, I assume he is under oath.
    MacsAlwayshorvaticlatifbp
  • Reply 6 of 21
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    So he's finally admitted to lying all this time on this?

    Guy should get fired immediately. He told that to Congress right? Lying to Congress is a crime. Jail him now.
    MacsAlwaysSpamSandwichhorvaticewtheckmancornchip
  • Reply 7 of 21
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    That's a good photo of him. You can see both of his faces.
    jfc1138palomineboltsfan17wetlanderhorvaticewtheckmancornchipduervojohn galtlatifbp
  • Reply 8 of 21
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    "Speaking in front of a Congressional intelligence panel, FBI Director James Comey admitted that the outcome of an Apple-FBI battle over unlocking an iPhone will likely set a legal precedent, despite recent suggestions to the contrary." "Suggestions"?? The guy flat out stated that.
  • Reply 9 of 21
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,198member
    I guess Comey got called out by too many people to continue thinking he could "pull the wool" over the public's eyes on this.
    Next up: Comey admits the All Writs Act doesn't actually support his agency's request.
    cornchip
  • Reply 10 of 21
    Fracking Liars! FBI is acting like the mob they are suppose to protect us from!
    cornchip
  • Reply 11 of 21
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 1,035member
    I'm surprised this whole thing didn't get buried in some FISA court where Apple would have lost, the NSA would have a backdoor into every iPhone, and we wouldn't have heard a thing about it until someone like Snowden came out and revealed it.
    cornchip
  • Reply 12 of 21
    jfc1138 said:
    So he's finally admitted to lying all this time on this?

    Guy should get fired immediately. He told that to Congress right? Lying to Congress is a crime. Jail him now.
    He's one of the guys who has the dirt on every single member of Congress, not to mention every president since their founding.
    wetlanderpunkndrubliccornchip
  • Reply 13 of 21
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    linkman said:
    I'm surprised this whole thing didn't get buried in some FISA court where Apple would have lost, the NSA would have a backdoor into every iPhone, and we wouldn't have heard a thing about it until someone like Snowden came out and revealed it.
    Once the precedent is set, future court orders will likely, as you suggest, be issued by secret rubber stamp courts like FISA.
  • Reply 14 of 21
    No kidding! Who knew? /s
    I'm actually glad he decided to acknowledge  this, because it shows he was either wrong and later changed his mind, or he was making a disingenuous argument before. At least now he is agreeing with Apple on the risk this case has on the future of encryption and privacy.

    The issue was never as simple as "but but but this is just about one phone." If only the trolls would stop using this rhetoric in the forums, and see the bigger picture.

    I think this will allow us to focus on the real debate: what kind of future do we want?
    edited February 2016 badmonk
  • Reply 15 of 21
    Yes Mr. Cocky, this will set a precedent that will mean everyone's data on any device or service will need a back door. Which means as Tim Cook said nobody's data will be safe anymore and the criminals of the world will have a grand time with identity theft and more. No corporations will be able to have any secret data on any device which means big trouble. Then there is the world view, China and every other country could get your data too without asking because they are great at hacking and with a backdoor already there they to will have a field day. What a mess!!! But that is what the GOP wants, IDIOTS!!!
    cornchip
  • Reply 16 of 21
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,950member
    horvatic said:
    But that is what the GOP wants, IDIOTS!!!
    It's not the GOP it's the NWO. Both sides are equally corrupt and neither gives a squirt of piss about you or anyone like you beyond your capability to fit in as a cog in their machine. They need to know as much about you and I as possible so they know exactly where to place us. 
  • Reply 17 of 21
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,322moderator
    jfc1138 said:
    So he's finally admitted to lying all this time on this?

    Guy should get fired immediately. He told that to Congress right? Lying to Congress is a crime. Jail him now.
    The following interview from about 1.5 years ago unfortunately indicates that would be unlikely:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/snowden-exile-exclusive-interview/

    "The surveillance revelations are critically important because they revealed that our rights are being redefined in secret, by secret courts that were never intended to have that role—without the consent of the public, without even the awareness of the majority of our political representatives. However, as important as that is, I don’t think it is the most important thing. I think it is the fact that the director of national intelligence gave a false statement to Congress under oath, which is a felony. If we allow our officials to knowingly break the law publicly and face no consequences, we’re instituting a culture of immunity"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#Admission_and_responses

    "John Dean, former White House Counsel for President Nixon, has claimed that it is unlikely Clapper would be charged with the three principal criminal statutes that address false statements to Congress: perjury, obstruction of Congress, and making false statements. David Sirota of Salon said that if the U.S. government fails to treat Clapper and Alexander in the same way as it did Roger Clemens, "the message from the government would be that lying to Congress about baseball is more of a felony than lying to Congress about Americans’ Fourth Amendment rights" and that the "message would declare that when it comes to brazen law-breaking, as long as you are personally connected to the president, you get protection rather than the prosecution you deserve."

    On December 19, 2013 seven Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee called on attorney general Eric Holder to investigate Clapper, saying that "witnesses cannot be allowed to lie to Congress." In January 2014, Robert Litt, the general counsel to the Office of the DNI, stated that Clapper did not lie to Congress, and in May 2015 clarified that Clapper "had absolutely forgotten the existence of" section 215 of the Patriot Act.

    In January 2014, six members of the House of Representatives wrote to President Obama urging him to dismiss Clapper for lying to Congress, but were rebuffed by the White House. Caitlin Hayden, a White House spokesperson, said in an e-mailed statement that Obama has "full faith in Director Clapper’s leadership of the intelligence community. The Director has provided an explanation for his answers to Senator Wyden and made clear that he did not intend to mislead the Congress."

    You notice a trend here time and time again. The financial crisis no accountability, mass surveillance no accountability. Deals are done behind closed doors, actions take place in secrecy, hidden away and encrypted from the world but they hack into and steal information from everyone else. The above interview is worth reading through and has some very good commentary on why this happens:

    "we do not live in a revolutionary time. People are not prepared to contest power. We have a system of education that is really a sort of euphemism for indoctrination. It’s not designed to create critical thinkers. We have a media that goes along with the government by parroting phrases intended to provoke a certain emotional response—for example, “national security.” Everyone says “national security” to the point that we now must use the term “national security.” But it is not national security that they’re concerned with; it is state security. And that’s a key distinction. We don’t like to use the phrase “state security” in the United States because it reminds us of all the bad regimes. But it’s a key concept, because when these officials are out on TV, they’re not talking about what’s good for you. They’re not talking about what’s good for business. They’re not talking about what’s good for society. They’re talking about the protection and perpetuation of a national state system.
    I’m not an anarchist. I’m not saying, “Burn it to the ground.” But I’m saying we need to be aware of it, and we need to be able to distinguish when political developments are occurring that are contrary to the public interest. And that cannot happen if we do not question the premises on which they’re founded."

    When this whole issue was brought up in the media, the outlets played to their audience, which is another thing discussed in the interview about partisan online communities helping reinforce people's values but also creating a one-sided rhetoric. The wording of a single headline can project a predefined emotional response onto hundreds of millions of people because of the constant repetitious cycle that lays the groundwork for it. 'Apple refuses FBI request to unlock terrorist phone' projects Apple in the wrong supporting an enemy, projects arrogant attitude playing on an already well-worn media stereotype of Apple, presents FBI as helpful, patriotic with a simple, polite request. In one sentence, in one fraction of a second, hundreds of millions of people can make an emotional decision about who's right and who's wrong and crucially to make a decision on what should be written into law:

    https://privacyinternational.org/node/751

    "if the Investigatory Powers Bill (IPB) was to become law, a telecommunications company receiving a similar demand from the UK Government would not be allowed to publish a letter like the one Apple has. They would be under a gagging order.

    Under the IPB, Section 102(1)1 and 190(8) would prevent companies from disclosing such requests to their customers.

    It would mean that the kind of public debate that the FBI/Apple case is prompting simply wouldn't happen."
    realjustinlong
  • Reply 18 of 21
    jony0jony0 Posts: 378member
    —The truth ? You want the truth ? You can’t handle the truth !
    Did you order the backdoor ?
    I did what I had to do !
    Did you order the backdoor ?
    You’re damn right I did !
  • Reply 19 of 21
    And they just keep grabbing everything they can get and giving back the Stasi.... Good trade ??
  • Reply 20 of 21
    Urei1620Urei1620 Posts: 88member
    Apple's win today is awesome, but what would really make my day is for Comey to resign or get fired.
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