Wow, we're getting closer to a dictatorship where nothing is protected. The headline is a little sensationalist compared to the actual article but if the Justice Dept is even thinking about it, it worries me. I'm sure they don't have any legal grounds to do this just like they don't have any legal grounds to compel Apple to write software to hack its own system. This insanity by the Justice Dept and FBI really needs to stop. It's an embarrassment to the people of the US and is making us look even more foolish than we already do to the rest of the world.
Our appearance to the rest of the world is irrelevant. Without our constitutional protections the US is no better than China or Russia...which may be what Obama and his globalist buddies have been going for.
You think Obama and his "globalist buddies" are going for a China and Russia look alike? Really, really ignorant comment that reflects someone who is lead by his preferred flavor of media and not by strong thinking and analysis based on a variety of sources.
Why don't you tell us how you think some of the current crop seeking the Presidency stands on this issues and related constitutional privacy and freedoms. Once you do that it will be a bit easier to assess the level of politically motivated hypocrisy in your comment.
Okay. This whole encryption debate has gone on too long in my opinion.
The logic never made ANY sense. It is crazy stuff. I have to start looking deeper for "why".
It is a transparent fact that weakening the security of iOS will affect everyone, it would destroy our personal device's security. Which would greatly increase law enforcement's workload chasing finance crime, extortion, etc.
Equally transparent is the fact that the criminals have lots of crypto software alternatives or could write their own, since it is Mathematics that enables it. Can't outlaw math.
So, if it won't change the future in terms of encrypted criminal communications, and if it would increase the amount of crime and fraud, then
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CASE ABOUT?????
You know, I'm getting the idea that the US simply HATES Apple. I would like to know why they have it in for this company so bad. Just look at the hassles Apple has been going through with the Justice Dept. in the past couple years.
What is the reason for all of this ire directed at Apple?
1. Maybe they haven't spent enough money lobbying/schmoozing the govt?
2. Maybe encryption debate is a lie to get bad guys to use their iPhones to talk when govt knows nsa really can get in?
3. Maybe Eric Schmidt is pulling strings against a competitor as a part of new nsa technology group ?( he was appointed around same time)
4. Maybe the military industrial complex has an angle I can't imagine?
5. Maybe the nsa really can't help them get in?
6. Maybe this is a counterintelligence story directed at some other govt?
7. What precedent? Clipper Chip failed in the 90s. End-run around Congress via the courts? 9. This is step one before they destroy all our liberties, and they expect it will be resolved with another attack of some sort.
Feel free to add your own paranoid ideas. It is time to start looking at reasons for Apple's woes other than those the govt claims and Wall Street bs. The more ideas the better. I eagerly await your replies, and a million others.
The popular vote is meaningless. The president is elected by delegates at the Electoral College.
And there’s nothing wrong with that, because we’re not a direct democracy. Thing is, we ought to undo what Andrew Jackson did (only thing he did wrong, really) and allow the Electoral College to be proportional again instead of winner take all. Makes every state a battleground .
They could be found in contempt of court, FBI could raid Apple's US locations and confiscate all their computers. Farfetched but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
Apple should relocate all software development outside of US immediately, and it needs to be to a country that is not a US puppet and can stand up to pressure. That makes at the most two, neither of which could probably ultimately withstand US sanctions and none of Apple's software engineers are going to want to live there.
Great idea chasing the single largest taxpayer out of the country.
Apple has enough cash to just buy some islands and become a sovereign nation. All hail Macland!
This move by the DOJ is a bluff. They don't intend to follow through with it. But in doing so they have lessened faith and credit in the US government. Actions like this combined with the brinkmanship of the US congress in budgeting and surmounting national debt ($19.1 trillion as of right now but it's hard to keep current with that out of control figure) are turning this country into a place unfavorable to business.
The debt is trivial; U.S. Government assets are way beyond $20 Trillion in valuation, and the U.S. is a very secure place to do business; a situation that I would like to continue.
tmay said: The debt is trivial; U.S. Government assets are way beyond $20 Trillion in valuation
That’s literally not at all how it works. There is more than a dollar of debt for every dollar in existence. It is physically impossible to pay it back. Foreign debt is only about a 10th of total debt.
Why doesn't apple add the argument that since all info on a phone was placed there by the user or with the permission of the user, the phone should be protected by our fifth amendment right against self incrimination: "No person shall be … compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".
The FBI's actions are a repeat of the McCarthyism era - coercion, intimidation and deceit.
McCarthy was a national hero.
McCarthy was a drunk and a bully who remains a byword for 'demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents.' (Wikipedia).
Wow, we're getting closer to a dictatorship where nothing is protected. The headline is a little sensationalist compared to the actual article but if the Justice Dept is even thinking about it, it worries me. I'm sure they don't have any legal grounds to do this just like they don't have any legal grounds to compel Apple to write software to hack its own system. This insanity by the Justice Dept and FBI really needs to stop. It's an embarrassment to the people of the US and is making us look even more foolish than we already do to the rest of the world.
Our appearance to the rest of the world is irrelevant. Without our constitutional protections the US is no better than China or Russia...which may be what Obama and his globalist buddies have been going for.
Maybe the time to join the rest and become anti-US is getting nearer each day... If US really does go down this path, I am sure the rest of the world will start turning elsewhere. Looks like the downfall of US firms won't be due to competition but instead, due to anti-competition and suffocation from the DICTATORSHIP.
So much for the talks and preaching of DEMOCRACY to the rest of the world!!!
Completely agree. Isolationist policies ended in the 1940's, but astonishingly, many Americans still think the US is somehow an entity unto itself. In any case, the international impact of coney and the general inability of the govt to follow due process is already disastrous. There are groups with very particular agendas pushing this situation, and I'm sure sacrificing US honour is just a pawn-move in their long-term strategy.
So much for the talks and preaching of DEMOCRACY to the rest of the world!!!
We actually need to be careful about championing or appealing to democracy in this because it can backfire. In fact, I think one of the reasons the FBI went public with this case was because they thought they had (and to some extent still may have) a "slam dunk" appeal to emotion case with the general public that would ultimately force Apple into capitulating.
Apple is, rightly, taking a principled stand here regardless of what the majority may want or think. They are right in this case and right and wrong are not subject to popular vote. I hope they stand firm even if the tide of public opinion turns against them. That, not democracy, is the basis and foundation of liberty.
Great point! How can a nation fed populist - read 'contrived by paid media corporations' - views daily, where sensationalism is standard, make an informed, functional democracy? The election of bush jnr proves your point. Illegality was found, but no action taken, and another nail in the US constitution was struck.
We have regularly scheduled government overthrows, they are called elections.
True! The last time a US pres tried to make changes... well Obama tried to 'bring the troops home', but we ended up with hamstrung health care and gay marriage. The last time actual change was gaining momentum, a Us Pres tried to return federal power to democratic mechanisms from the finance industry. He was shot in the head.
McCarthy was a national hero. Do a comparison to Stalin or something.
And there’s nothing wrong with that, because we’re not a direct democracy. Thing is, we ought to undo what Andrew Jackson did (only thing he did wrong, really) and allow the Electoral College to be proportional again instead of winner take all. Makes every state a battleground .
I can understand your point, and there may be a few who still think highly of McCarthy, but it is somewhat doubtful there are many (if any). Regardless, the term McCarthyism, is hardly something viewed positively - those who liked the goal of McCarthy, and willing to ignore his methods, wouldn't use the term. The term has a specific meaning which involves coercion, intimidation and deceit. The comments made by the FBI are attempts to damage Apple in order to meet their agenda. Same technique used by McCarthy, ... both in the "name of keeping us safe."
McCarthy was a drunk and a bully who remains a byword for 'demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents.' (Wikipedia).
Yes, Wikipedia’s owned by the same kind of people who’ve slandered his memory. What’s your point?
The last time actual change was gaining momentum, a Us Pres tried to return federal power to democratic mechanisms from the finance industry. He was shot in the head.
I’ve heard mixed reports about EO 11110 and its true intent. Do you have something I could use as a primer?
Comments
9. This is step one before they destroy all our liberties, and they expect it will be resolved with another attack of some sort.
Completely agree. Isolationist policies ended in the 1940's, but astonishingly, many Americans still think the US is somehow an entity unto itself. In any case, the international impact of coney and the general inability of the govt to follow due process is already disastrous. There are groups with very particular agendas pushing this situation, and I'm sure sacrificing US honour is just a pawn-move in their long-term strategy.
Great point!
How can a nation fed populist - read 'contrived by paid media corporations' - views daily, where sensationalism is standard, make an informed, functional democracy?
The election of bush jnr proves your point. Illegality was found, but no action taken, and another nail in the US constitution was struck.
Quaint.
The DoJ can demand anything that they would like to demand.
Actually receiving what they demand is a different story.
The term has a specific meaning which involves coercion, intimidation and deceit. The comments made by the FBI are attempts to damage Apple in order to meet their agenda. Same technique used by McCarthy, ... both in the "name of keeping us safe."
brakken said:I’ve heard mixed reports about EO 11110 and its true intent. Do you have something I could use as a primer?