What to expect from Apple's 'let us loop you in' event today

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 83
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Soli said:
    knowitall said:
    Ha, I do knowitall.
    So, know the argument is that is must be able to run x86 apps.
    Thats a mistake, lots of people have no need for Intel apps and Apple has fat binaries from before eh Apple so Apple can produces el cheapo MacBooks for $600 or less and expensive $1000+ versions with abysmal performance for people who don't get it.
    Some people aren't going to get it. Some think that ARM will need to be faster than all the Macs Apple has on the market, allow for a Rosetta option, and even argue that it would make the VMs and Boot Camp nonfunctional. These are all foolish concepts to a solution that allows Apple to enter into a new, low-end of the PC market and allow for fat-binaries. They also don't see the advantages Apple has now over their PowerPC to Intel switch by 1) having an App Store in place, 2) selling many times more Macs per quarter than back in 2006, 3) the number of users a low-end, ARM-based notebook PC opens up for Apple and 3rd-party developers, 4) what kind of apps low-end users need, and 5) and Apple's continued, excellent work with their IDE SW.
    If an ARM Mac were to only run apps from the Mac App Store then Apple need to do some serious work on sorting out that store. It's not fit for that purpose.
  • Reply 62 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    Some people aren't going to get it. Some think that ARM will need to be faster than all the Macs Apple has on the market, allow for a Rosetta option, and even argue that it would make the VMs and Boot Camp nonfunctional. These are all foolish concepts to a solution that allows Apple to enter into a new, low-end of the PC market and allow for fat-binaries. They also don't see the advantages Apple has now over their PowerPC to Intel switch by 1) having an App Store in place, 2) selling many times more Macs per quarter than back in 2006, 3) the number of users a low-end, ARM-based notebook PC opens up for Apple and 3rd-party developers, 4) what kind of apps low-end users need, and 5) and Apple's continued, excellent work with their IDE SW.
    If an ARM Mac were to only run apps from the Mac App Store then Apple need to do some serious work on sorting out that store. It's not fit for that purpose.
    You mean there are no apps in the Mac App Store that support an ARM-based Macs? I agree, but I'm not sure why that's a deal breaker at this point.
  • Reply 63 of 83
    BlasterBlaster Posts: 97member
    Soli said:
    Blaster said:
    And billions more devices running Windows have been sold.  Your point?
    1) Those are running on x86, not on ARM. Apple has proven itself with rewriting OS X for ARM.

    2) Your issue, is you have this ridiculous notion that a desktop OS has to run x86 or it can't run at all. That's foolish on multiple levels, especially in 2016 when Apple's A-series performance outstrip that of cheap Windows notebooks.
    Show us those "billion" devices running "OS X" on ARM today as you claim.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 64 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Blaster said:
    Soli said:
    1) Those are running on x86, not on ARM. Apple has proven itself with rewriting OS X for ARM.

    2) Your issue, is you have this ridiculous notion that a desktop OS has to run x86 or it can't run at all. That's foolish on multiple levels, especially in 2016 when Apple's A-series performance outstrip that of cheap Windows notebooks.
    Show us those "billion" "OS X" devices running on ARM today.
    So now you're wanting me to show you 1,000,000,000 devices running iOS, tvOS, and watchOS? Sure, I'll get right on that¡
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 65 of 83
    BlasterBlaster Posts: 97member
    Soli said:
    Blaster said:
    Show us those "billion" "OS X" devices running on ARM today.
    So now you're wanting me to show you 1,000,000,000 devices running iOS, tvOS, and watchOS? Sure, I'll get right on that¡
    No, I said show us those billion devices running "OS X" on ARM as you claimed.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 66 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Blaster said:
    Soli said:
    So now you're wanting me to show you 1,000,000,000 devices running iOS, tvOS, and watchOS? Sure, I'll get right on that¡
    No, I said show us those billion devices running "OS X" on ARM as you claimed.
    And all those OSes are built from OS X. Just as Macs use Mac OS which now use 64-bit Intel architecture, and previously 32-bit Intel architecture, and before that, PowerPC architecture; all those devices I mentioned use an OS that came from OS X (which is Darwin OS, plus various other frameworks) to run on 32-bit ARM, and now 64-bit ARM.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 67 of 83
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Soli said:
    crowley said:
    If an ARM Mac were to only run apps from the Mac App Store then Apple need to do some serious work on sorting out that store. It's not fit for that purpose.
    You mean there are no apps in the Mac App Store that support an ARM-based Macs? I agree, but I'm not sure why that's a deal breaker at this point.
    No, I'm saying that the Mac App Store is in desperate need of attention from Apple; it's a substandard experience.
  • Reply 68 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    You mean there are no apps in the Mac App Store that support an ARM-based Macs? I agree, but I'm not sure why that's a deal breaker at this point.
    No, I'm saying that the Mac App Store is in desperate need of attention from Apple; it's a substandard experience.
    Absolutely. I've even argued that Apple letting it linger is evidence that an ARM-based Mac or Mac-like lower-end 'PC' that has to heavily rely on its App Store in-part or in-full, shows that Apple isn't close to having such a device on the market anytime soon.
  • Reply 69 of 83
    BlasterBlaster Posts: 97member
    Soli said:
    Blaster said:
    No, I said show us those billion devices running "OS X" on ARM as you claimed.
    And all those OSes are built from OS X. Just as Macs use Mac OS which now use 64-bit Intel architecture, and previously 32-bit Intel architecture, and before that, PowerPC architecture; all those devices I mentioned use an OS that came from OS X (which is Darwin OS, plus various other frameworks) to run on 32-bit ARM, and now 64-bit ARM.
    From now on, we should just refer to OS X as BSD, Safari as Konqueror, and Android as Linux.  And every iPhone and iPad user is a Mac user.  Got it.
    edited March 2016 radarthekat
  • Reply 70 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Blaster said:
    Soli said:
    And all those OSes are built from OS X. Just as Macs use Mac OS which now use 64-bit Intel architecture, and previously 32-bit Intel architecture, and before that, PowerPC architecture; all those devices I mentioned use an OS that came from OS X (which is Darwin OS, plus various other frameworks) to run on 32-bit ARM, and now 64-bit ARM.
    From now on, we should just refer to OS X as BSD, Safari as Konqueror, and Android as Linux.  And every iPhone and iPad user is a Mac user.  Got it.
    What a reasonable conclusion¡ :eyeroll:
  • Reply 71 of 83
    BlasterBlaster Posts: 97member

    Soli said:
    crowley said:
    No, I'm saying that the Mac App Store is in desperate need of attention from Apple; it's a substandard experience.
    Absolutely. I've even argued that Apple letting it linger is evidence that an ARM-based Mac or Mac-like lower-end 'PC' that has to heavily rely on its App Store in-part or in-full, shows that Apple isn't close to having such a device on the market anytime soon.
    But Apple already has ARM based Macs: the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Apple Watch and Apple TV.
  • Reply 72 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Blaster said:

    Soli said:
    Absolutely. I've even argued that Apple letting it linger is evidence that an ARM-based Mac or Mac-like lower-end 'PC' that has to heavily rely on its App Store in-part or in-full, shows that Apple isn't close to having such a device on the market anytime soon.
    But Apple already has ARM based Macs: the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Apple Watch and Apple TV.
    Those aren't Macs, and if you had read carefully you'd have noticed that I referred to the umbrella OS as OS X, not Mac OS X. Mac, as in Macintosh, is Apple's branding for their traditional 'PC' running Mac OS X, which uses Cocoa for its UI.

    But don't take my word for it, go back and see where Apple says they made the OS for the iPhone by stripping down Mac OS and building it up to support an ARM-based system and a touchscreen as primary I/O. They even had a nifty banner supporting this amazing accomplishment back in 2008 for WWDC.


    edited March 2016 nolamacguy
  • Reply 73 of 83
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Blaster said:
    Soli said:
    And all those OSes are built from OS X. Just as Macs use Mac OS which now use 64-bit Intel architecture, and previously 32-bit Intel architecture, and before that, PowerPC architecture; all those devices I mentioned use an OS that came from OS X (which is Darwin OS, plus various other frameworks) to run on 32-bit ARM, and now 64-bit ARM.
    From now on, we should just refer to OS X as BSD, Safari as Konqueror, and Android as Linux.  And every iPhone and iPad user is a Mac user.  Got it.
    We should refer to you has someone who got his ass blasted (sic) by Soli to the consistency of polished glass; watch out when you sit, could be slippery.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 74 of 83
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Blaster said:
    Soli said:
    1) Those are running on x86, not on ARM. Apple has proven itself with rewriting OS X for ARM.

    2) Your issue, is you have this ridiculous notion that a desktop OS has to run x86 or it can't run at all. That's foolish on multiple levels, especially in 2016 when Apple's A-series performance outstrip that of cheap Windows notebooks.
    Show us those "billion" devices running "OS X" on ARM today as you claim.
    uh, you do realize the iPhone's OS is a subset of OS X, right? probably not. that was the big hotness when it was first released -- that they got OS X onto a smartphone. it has its own UI kits on top. then rebranded as iOS a few years later. 

    history. 
  • Reply 75 of 83
    Well, the UK store is down for iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, iPad mini 2 and iPad Air:  "We can't wait to show you what we have in store".   Still showing 6s, mini 4, Air 2 and Pro iPads, all Macs, watches and TV.

    Make of that what you will.  For me, I read it as the 5s is gone, 6 dropping to the 5s price and the SE slotting in between the 6 and the 6s with 6s internals.  Then a new 9.7" iPad above the Air2 and the Air2 dropping to the Air pricepoint and the Air disappearing.  Not sure on the minis, maybe just dropping the mini 2.

    I don't expect to see anything about Macs or OSX until the WWDC.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 76 of 83
    al80al80 Posts: 5member

    I there's a chance that they might announce that Barclays Bank in the UK might finally add Apple Pay support - Barclays has been a sizable holdout to Apple Pay and if added would mean all major banks have adopted the service.  Barclays made a pretty vague announcement a while back - it would make sense if the ambiguity around the timing is because perhaps Apple were influencing the timelines.  Anyhow... here's hoping... better late than never.

  • Reply 77 of 83
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Looks like “pump and dump” is in full effect for AAPL. The stock has been rising unexpectedly the past month based on predictions of better than expected iPhone sales. So get ready for the big dump after the “underwhelming” and “disappointing” Apple Event today. Those words are already floating around the various news sites. This cycle has become so utterly predictable in the last few years.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 78 of 83
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    apple ][ said:
    I haven't really been following too many of the rumors lately, but I hope to see something announced or introduced that is totally unexpected.

    I want to be surprised and wowed, is that asking too much? 

    I also hope that there's no musical guest at the end. Screw the music. I'm interested in Apple and their products. If people want to watch and hear music, then go to damn youtube and watch a video. 

    My excitement level prior to this Apple event is about a 2 out of 10. 

    Nevertheless, I will be tuning in tomorrow, and eagerly watching the keynote, like I always do. :#

    It is pretty hard to be surprised in the age of the Internet but yes a surprise would be nice.  

    6Sgoldfish
  • Reply 79 of 83
    Come to think of it, it would actually be cool if Apple squeezed the 6S' guts into the 6th gen iPod Touch shell. It feels great in your palm and surprisingly premium with its smooth metal back and the characteristically 'Apple' chamfered front finish. Plus, it comes in a variety of colours should Apple wish to pull a similar trick as with the iPhone 5c. They wouldn't need to invent a new form factor for the time being, and we all know how apprehensive they are about changing the bezel symmetry and physical home button. 
  • Reply 80 of 83
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    knowitall said:
    knowitall said:

    "Specifically, Apple's MacBook Pro and 12-inch MacBook lineups are both due for upgrades to Apples latest-generation A10 processors. New Macs are likely to make the leap to Apples A10 too, which boosts CPU speeds by up to 20 percent, and also increases power efficiency with a huge factor of 5, making possible 35 hours of battery life and a drop in price of $300 or more ..."

    There, fixed that for you.
    Lol no. Cute, but no. There is zero evidence of OSX builds running on anything other than an Intel platform in the wild, and you're not going to see one until the A series is powerful enough to not only run desktop-level apps specifically coded for it, but legacy x86 apps running in a VM environment like Apple had to do after switching from PowerPC to Intel chips via Rosetta. Sorry, but we are nowhere close to that day, Knowitall, and Apple isn't going to risk their hard-earned market share gains by making every piece of software installed on current systems incompatible at launch just to apease the anti-Intel bunch.

    Kind of surprised you didn't already "know" that...
    Ha, I do knowitall.
    So, know the argument is that is must be able to run x86 apps.
    Thats a mistake, lots of people have no need for Intel apps and Apple has fat binaries from before eh Apple so Apple can produces el cheapo MacBooks for $600 or less and expensive $1000+ versions with abysmal performance for people who don't get it.
    You may not know it all but I have to agree emulation won't be Apples technique to support a Mac OS/X machine if it ever comes. I suspect that they will either implement cross compiling apps to a target architecture Or simply have developers submit multiple binaries as part of agreeing to app stare access. The have certainly put in place technology that would enable either approach over the last few SDK releases. The other option is to run iOS apps in a Window. The idea that Emulation would be required is a bit silly, this isn't the 1990's and frankly far fewer people need i86 support. I'm one of those people and was initially reluctant to buy Apple hardware until the i86 transition. It was quickly realized that running Windows apps, the original consideration for i86 as a requirement, is one longer a requirement. That is as much an acknowledgment of a change in interests as it is realizing I don't need the Windows support for the software I need now. An ARM based Mac would leave one in the same position if the base software needs are taken care of the processor Means little.
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