DOJ confirms successful iPhone data extraction, withdraws encryption case against Apple [u]

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  • Reply 121 of 159
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    One theory: Apple and the FBI cut a deal. Apple would unlock the phone, but the FBI wouldn't tell. I'm not sure. I don't like to believe that Apple would do that, but it would make sense. Apple could do away with all the bad press and save their face, the FBI could get their phone unlocked... It would require a bold faced lie from the FBI, but I wouldn't put that past them considering how they've acted during the rest of this ordeal. 

    I was thinking the same. This way, they both get to be heroes in their respective supporters' eyes, and because they made a deal - maybe even a long term one? - court case is dropped. Everyone wins.

    Have DOJ really cracked encryption on their own, can't really see why would they drop case. That might be precedent that can create them a lot of trouble in some future case when they are not lucky/capable to crack phone themselves... and not only against Apple, but any other phone maker. Or a tablet maker. Or laptop. Pretty much anything that can be encrypted...
  • Reply 122 of 159
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    In the latest breaking non-news today, the US government decided to persue its back-peddaling full-force with its unconstitutional efforts in forcing Apple to destroy the only secure commercial operating system on the planet. Due to various circumstances, such as paid-for media outlets and 'lobbying', no explanation will ever be given by either player of their roles in this farce with their mutally-supportive vested interests. 

    The gang at AppleInsider are still keeping Dilger safely enclosed in their favourite faux-persian rug to ensure no actual insights, opinions, or historical conext are given. Thankfully, the commenters on the sight came to the rescue, roundly decrying rhe stupidity and worthlessness of the state of the nation. 

    In other news, a giant catepillar landed on my sister's hand after falling a great height from a tree. Video highlights on youtube later tonight!
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 123 of 159
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    volcan said:
    And did they inform Apple of the security vulnerability that was used? Probably not, but they should as it could be an issue of national security.
    They don't have to tell Apple anything...they tried to work with Apple but, Apple decided to make this something nasty in the media...good luck getting the FBI to work with you after a very public bashing
    I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONSTITUTION IS EVEN FOR WHY DO WE EVEN BOTHER WITH ELECTIONS WHERE IS HITLER?!?!?
    palominestevehtallest skil
  • Reply 124 of 159
    spacekidspacekid Posts: 183member
    tdsmac said:
    entropys said:
    I suspect you could be right. From the FBI's perspective better to leave the issue unresolved than to go to court and have it resolved in a way the FBI didn't like. If Apple won it would reduce the FBI's options not just with Apple but also with other 'less principled' manufacturers.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal also creates the impression Apple's encryption might have been broken. Apple will need to at least be seen to upgrade encryption in iOS9.4 that could deal with the exploit.

    The gripping hand is the encryption war goes on forever.
    I think this is a real possibility.  If the FBI did break the encryption I get them not saying how it was done. However, I will not accept them not saying if anything was found on the phone. They made this public and that is what this was all about "supposedly". All citizens have the right to know if they found anything of value after this whole charade. 
    Contrary to all of the conspiracy theories and disbelief in the US government here, it is likely what happened is what the FBI has stated. It is not likely they broke any encryption but rather bypassed or tricked some security measure.

    And where is this "right to know"? Do I have a right to know your income and SSN?

  • Reply 125 of 159
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,782member
    FBI, if you say so. Now, don't bother Apple for those 75 iphones waiting to be hacked.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 126 of 159
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    entropys said:
    cali said:
    Part of me thinks this is BS and they never got into the iPhone and withdrew because of all the bad press they were getting.
    I suspect you could be right. From the FBI's perspective better to leave the issue unresolved than to go to court and have it resolved in a way the FBI didn't like. If Apple won it would reduce the FBI's options not just with Apple but also with other 'less principled' manufacturers.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal also creates the impression Apple's encryption might have been broken. Apple will need to at least be seen to upgrade encryption in iOS9.4 that could deal with the exploit.

    The gripping hand is the encryption war goes on forever.
    Even on AI/MR people were speculating about how the FBI can get in, and the NAND mirroring was one example I described without actually calling it such.

    And that's the thing, the FBI just wanted an easy way in. The NAND mirroring process is destructive to the device, and probably not worth even doing unless you're trying to bust a crime ring. John Q Public's iPhone isn't interesting even if there might be dick pics on it.

    As long as the "breaking in" to the device is at a technologically sophisticated level that it can't be done without rendering the original device inoperable, it's still a viable means for LEO's to get into a device and more casual espionage (spying) still be left impossible to do on the device and thus must be done from the wire/wireless end (eg the carrier)

  • Reply 127 of 159
    felix01 said:
    quinney said:
    As a U.S. taxpayer, I would like to know how much the FBI paid the outside entity to access the data on the phone.  For people living places where law enforcement agencies have dozens of phones they want accessed, it would be nice to know what the costs and benefits are to using this technique repeatedly.
    $15,278 according to several online stories over the weekend.
    Pretty reasonable.

    Way less than one of Obmaa's tax payer funded vacations.
  • Reply 128 of 159
    entropys said:
    cali said:
    Part of me thinks this is BS and they never got into the iPhone and withdrew because of all the bad press they were getting.
    I suspect you could be right. From the FBI's perspective better to leave the issue unresolved than to go to court and have it resolved in a way the FBI didn't like. If Apple won it would reduce the FBI's options not just with Apple but also with other 'less principled' manufacturers.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal also creates the impression Apple's encryption might have been broken. Apple will need to at least be seen to upgrade encryption in iOS9.4 that could deal with the exploit.

    The gripping hand is the encryption war goes on forever.
    Apple's encryption was NOT broken! The PASSCODE LOCK was bypassed. Jeez! Get it right! The FBI still has to de-crypt the data, so they say! But now that they know the passcode (I would hope, since they bypassed the lock) they should have an easier time doing so, once they find the hardware key. Hardware key plus passcode are the two factors needed to break the encryption.
    cornchip
  • Reply 129 of 159
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,841member
    How do we know they're not lying?
    It's the Feds, so you know they are lying?   ;)
  • Reply 130 of 159
    lkrupp said:
    volcan said:
    And did they inform Apple of the security vulnerability that was used? Probably not, but they should as it could be an issue of national security.
    Some discussion by legal types say Apple has the legal right to request the government hand over the method.
    They may have the legal right, but with all the obfuscation and court delays, such will be moot by the time they get the information from the government because someone else will publish the flaw.
  • Reply 131 of 159
    This is a funny article ... The DOJ & FBI always had the tool ...  It was just an embarrassing situation for them to be shutdown by Apple ... 
  • Reply 132 of 159
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,841member
    Hahaha who'd have imagined *rolles eyes, sarcastically* The government can hire good hackers... Big surprise. See, now if Apple had just unlocked it for them, they wouldn't have a backdoor key. Now they have a backdoor key they can use on seized property at will. By refusing to do the right thing and unlock a terrorist's phone, you have actually created the conditions where the FBI has gone AROUND Apple and now they DO have a full backdoor key. Great job!
    Hahaha, you have this weird notion that technology doesn't change at all.  And so since the FBI was able to crack the encryption on an obsolete iPhone, then they now have a backdoor on every other model of iPhone out there. Awesome inference.  Great job!
    wetlandercornchip
  • Reply 133 of 159
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    tdsmac said:
    entropys said:
    I suspect you could be right. From the FBI's perspective better to leave the issue unresolved than to go to court and have it resolved in a way the FBI didn't like. If Apple won it would reduce the FBI's options not just with Apple but also with other 'less principled' manufacturers.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal also creates the impression Apple's encryption might have been broken. Apple will need to at least be seen to upgrade encryption in iOS9.4 that could deal with the exploit.

    The gripping hand is the encryption war goes on forever.
    I think this is a real possibility.  If the FBI did break the encryption I get them not saying how it was done. However, I will not accept them not saying if anything was found on the phone. They made this public and that is what this was all about "supposedly". All citizens have the right to know if they found anything of value after this whole charade. 
    Who the hell are you that the FBI should tell you if they found any evidence/information? They don't answer to you or any one of us. 
    jony0
  • Reply 134 of 159
    Government is always lying about something... sometimes for the best and sometimes for the worst... so you should always take that as a fact, not an assumption.
  • Reply 135 of 159
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    newtonrj said:
    And the question we all have is: 'what was on the phone?' 

    -RJ
    It's Nuclear Launch Codes!!!! Thank goodness the FBI hacked the iPhone!!! Bad Apple!!!! Oh wait,....
  • Reply 136 of 159
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    nikon133 said:
    One theory: Apple and the FBI cut a deal. Apple would unlock the phone, but the FBI wouldn't tell. I'm not sure. I don't like to believe that Apple would do that, but it would make sense. Apple could do away with all the bad press and save their face, the FBI could get their phone unlocked... It would require a bold faced lie from the FBI, but I wouldn't put that past them considering how they've acted during the rest of this ordeal. 

    I was thinking the same. This way, they both get to be heroes in their respective supporters' eyes, and because they made a deal - maybe even a long term one? - court case is dropped. Everyone wins.

    Have DOJ really cracked encryption on their own, can't really see why would they drop case. That might be precedent that can create them a lot of trouble in some future case when they are not lucky/capable to crack phone themselves... and not only against Apple, but any other phone maker. Or a tablet maker. Or laptop. Pretty much anything that can be encrypted...
    Apple made a secret deal with the FBI? absurd nonsense. it would leak, period. reputation would never recover. 

    the fbi dropped this case for a clear reason -- they were going to lose. they didn't want to risk that and will instead wait for another case to try again to set precedent, while working to get congress to mandate it. 
    edited March 2016 cornchip
  • Reply 137 of 159
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    spacekid said:
    tdsmac said:
    I think this is a real possibility.  If the FBI did break the encryption I get them not saying how it was done. However, I will not accept them not saying if anything was found on the phone. They made this public and that is what this was all about "supposedly". All citizens have the right to know if they found anything of value after this whole charade. 
    Contrary to all of the conspiracy theories and disbelief in the US government here, it is likely what happened is what the FBI has stated. It is not likely they broke any encryption but rather bypassed or tricked some security measure.

    And where is this "right to know"? Do I have a right to know your income and SSN?

    a person has a right to privacy. the government does not and is susceptible to FOIA requests.
    tallest skilcornchip
  • Reply 138 of 159
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    scxfan said:
    felix01 said:
    $15,278 according to several online stories over the weekend.
    Pretty reasonable.

    Way less than one of Obmaa's tax payer funded vacations.
    only a fucking tool believes the current president is the first to take a vacation. Bush went golfing all the time.
    wetlandercornchip
  • Reply 139 of 159
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    tdsmac said:
    I think this is a real possibility.  If the FBI did break the encryption I get them not saying how it was done. However, I will not accept them not saying if anything was found on the phone. They made this public and that is what this was all about "supposedly". All citizens have the right to know if they found anything of value after this whole charade. 
    Who the hell are you that the FBI should tell you if they found any evidence/information? They don't answer to you or any one of us. 
    nonsense. of course the government answers to us -- they work for us. not he other way round. duh. if there is no ongoing criminal case, then the FBI has no right to keep it secret. again, they answer to the public.
    wetlandercornchip
  • Reply 140 of 159
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member
    The only approach that will work - and the one that is being tried (sources), is to brute force the fingerprint recognition of TouchID. The only weakness in Apple's armor, is that there is no limit on wrong fingerprint attempts, nor is there is any delay after several unsuccessful attempts.

    The FBI has a humongous database of fingerprints, and their Israeli consultants have figured out a way to quickly take a fingerprint image and trick TouchID into believing that it is a valid human finger. This is the reason the FBI doesn't need Apple, but they don't know if and when they can crack TouchID.
    The iPhone in question in the case is a 5c.

    Which does not have TouchID hardware.
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