small anecdote: I know a guy, his family is the most hardcore group of right-wing conservatives you'll ever meet. and yes I mean the whole family. We used to go out to this community centre to go swimming and in the locker rooms one of the first things you'd probably notice is all the old Russian chaps walking around with their wangs hanging out. and this guy was totally fine with it
fun fact: his son just came out to me as bisexual :P so there is that
If you’re not going to have an actual reply, I’m just going to start reporting your insults.
You couldn't make this up. The ignorant deluded guy spewing hate, promoting discrimination, swearing, using derogatory terms, implying people with problems he doesn't understand are mentally ill, etc. is now complaining about insults.
You bunch of knuckle draggers are the laughing stock of modern society but the pain and suffering you cause to some innocent people is too much to laugh about. How about you go back up the tree you came from and let the rest of us, human beings, live in peace?
the pain and suffering you cause to some innocent people
And so the pain and suffering of skyrocketing post-surgery suicide rates brought on by your support of MENTAL. ILLNESS. doesn’t count, then?
David Peter Reimer was a Canadian man, sexually reassigned as a female after his penis was destroyed during circumcision. John William Money was a psychologist and author, specializing in research into sexual identity and biology of gender. He persuaded Reimer’s parents that sex reassignment surgery was in David’s best interest. David’s testes were removed and he was assigned the name Brenda. Money saw David annually for roughly a decade for consultations and to assess the outcome of the surgery and societal reassignment. As this case had a control in the form of David’s twin brother Brian, Money sought to validate his claims that gender was exclusively a societal identity.
Reimer said that Money forced the twins to rehearse sexual acts involving “thrusting movements”, with David on the bottom. Reimer said that, as a child, he had to “get down on all fours” with his brother “up behind his butt” with “his crotch against his buttocks”. Money forced him, in another sexual position, to have his “legs spread” with Brian on top. Money also forced the children to “take their clothes off” and engage in “genital inspections”. On “at least one occasion”, Money photographed the children doing these activities. Money’s rationale for this was his belief that “childhood ‘sexual rehearsal play’ was important for a healthy adult gender identity.”
Notes by a former student at Money’s lab state that Reimer’s parents lied to lab staff about the success of the procedure. Brian Reimer developed schizophrenia.
In David’s own account, he did not identify as a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers, and neither the frilly dresses he was forced to wear nor the estrogen he was forced to inject made him feel female. By the age of 13, Reimer experienced suicidal depression, and he told his parents he would commit suicide if they made him see Money again. His parents told him the truth about his gender reassignment, and at 14 he reassumed his male identity, calling himself David. He underwent testosterone injections, and double mastectomy, and two phalloplasty operations. David told his story to sexologist Milton Diamond in order to dissuade physicians from treating other infants similarly.
For the first 30 years after Money’s initial report that the reassignment had been a success, his view on the “malleability” of gender became the dominant viewpoint among physicians and doctors, reassuring them that sexual reassignment was the correct decision in certain instances, resulting in thousands of sexual reassignments.
How about you go back up the tree you came from and let the rest of us, human beings, live in peace?
No force of will, no power of man, and no act of God will EVER make you into anything other than what you were born.
Now either respond with a refutation, rebuttal, disproof, or actual argument, or don’t fucking bother.
And he's so clueless about what he is talking about that he posts the case of David Reimer which clearly shows the problems of having a male brain in a woman's body as supporting his case when it does completely the opposite.
Step one: Be disrespectful. The ruder you are the more likely you will be to scare the other person into submission. Make sure to cuss lots
Step two: Be loud. See above
Step three: Argument from fallacy. i.e. assuming someone's point of view is incorrect because of their inability to present a convincing argument (I had this same problem trying to explain quantum physics to one of my classmates)
Like this?
I didn't realize that an argument had to have a "winner". No ones mind is ever changed on these things it's only a show of ignorance from all involved.
Also any claim that being trans causes mental illness or vice-versa is merely post hoc ergo propter hoc so please stop
I don't think that's the claim that's being made as much as the claim is there is a mental condition (possibly a mental illness) called gender dysphoria which leads individuals to becoming transgender through the application of medical procedures.
I'd suggest further reading into that article you linked. the final paragraph clearly says
Gender dysphoria used to be called “gender identity disorder.” But the mismatch between body and internal sense of gender is not a mental illness. Instead, what need to be addressed are the stress, anxiety, and depression that go along with it
...the case of David Reimer which clearly shows the problems of having a male brain in a woman’s body as supporting his case...
What part of “DID NOT IDENTIFY AS A WOMAN, DID NOT WANT TO BE A WOMAN, EVENTUALLY COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THE TORTURE AND MUTILATION THROUGH WHICH HE HAD BEEN PUT” was unclear about that story? What part of “it’s the poster story that has been used to show that trannies are ‘fine’ when the reality was always the exact opposite” was unclear?
Time to come clean. Are you just trolling or are you really this stupid? Because no one can be this stupid if they’re actually reading the posts before replying to them. Why do you support mental illness? Why do you refuse to actually refute anything I’ve said? What is wrong with you?
Famous people that were one time considered "mentally ill" Leonardo Da Vinci Michelangelo di Ludovico Buonarroti Alexander the Great Hadrian Oscar Wilde Walt Whitman Alan Turing Florence Nightingale Emily Dickinson Elanor Roosevelt Margaret Mead
Excuse me; try the FUCK again. Where do you get off, exactly? I mean where do your fallacies stop? Do they? We’ve already had an “appeal to fact” in the thread; I don’t think they can GET any more fallacious, by definition. When trannies call themselves trannies, it’s hardly derogatory to do so. SO. PROVE. IT. BY. DISPROVING. ANYTHING. I. HAVE. SAID.
Now either respond with a refutation, rebuttal, disproof, or actual argument, or don’t fucking bother.
Oh my, you're still going on about this?
There was no "appeal to statistics," in a rhetorical sense. I was merely pointing out the fact that you repeatedly refer to statistics that don't exist. From your own words, only a few pages ago: "Except it’s proven by every statistic ever recorded" and "Because of statistics?" And yet--and this is what's really telling--when I called you out on it, you spewed pages and pages of "evidence" that was taken from right wing sources based on conspiracy theories, along with a few broken links and several medical journals that actually disproved your argument.
I can see this practice, in particular, is a pattern with you, because your citing David Peter Reimer only serves as evidence that gender identity is not something that can be arbitrarily decided by a third party, and resides (of course) within the individual's brain.
Has everyone on this thread who has argued against you made flawless arguments backed up by citations of scholarly research? No, of course not. This is an internet forum, not a college research paper. But based on the poor evidence you have provided, your false equivalencies that border on creative fiction exercises, and so many straw men and ad hominem that I can't even keep track any more, you would decidedly receive an F on this paper.
roake said:
So your argument is that it's okay for my children to be exposed to nude adult strangers, and to try to shield them from that will cause "hang-ups?" You talk about cubicle bathrooms, but what about school or gym open showers? Clearly, there is no point in further discussion here.
Look, I understand that your point of view is coming from a genuine concern for your children being exposed to something you worry might scar them emotionally. I don't agree with you, but I can understand why you have that position (unlike tallest skill who I think might genuinely be a performance artist). All I ask is for you to imagine for one moment, one of your children telling you one day that they are transgender. Put aside your feelings of "I know my children! That would never happen," because that's what all parents say.
Would you want them to be barred from ever using a public restroom? Would you want laws to prevent them from taking legal action against discrimination in the workplace? You can't just hide in your home for the rest of your life. You have to be a part of society. And that's why this law is a problem. It operates within the fantasy that transgender people are just going to go away. They're not.
...you repeatedly refer to statistics that don’t exist.
Okay, enjoy believing whatever you want to believe.
...you spewed pages and pages of “evidence” that was taken from right wing sources...
Genetic fallacy. Already mentioned that.
based on conspiracy theories
Nah, medical fact isn’t a conspiracy.
...your citing David Peter Reimer only serves as evidence that gender identity is not something that can be arbitrarily decided by a third party, and resides (of course) within the individual’s brain.
You didn’t even read my excerpt, much less anything else about him.
But based on the poor evidence you have provided, your false equivalencies that border on creative fiction exercises, and so many straw men and ad hominem that I can't even keep track any more
List literally one, since I’ve done no such thing and you’ve provided absolutely nothing WHATSOEVER to back your claims other than “it hurts my feelings”. I’m not fucking playing around here. You don’t get to say whatever you want and have it be taken as fact. You don’t get to pretend that your feelings dictate reality. Have a fucking argument.
Would you want them to be barred from ever using a public restroom? Would you want laws to prevent them from taking legal action against discrimination in the workplace?
Nah, a sane person would just get his mentally ill child the treatment he actually needs rather than feed the mental illness.
It operates within the fantasy that transgender people are just going to go away. They're not.
...the case of David Reimer which clearly shows the problems of having a male brain in a woman’s body as supporting his case...
What part of “DID NOT IDENTIFY AS A WOMAN, DID NOT WANT TO BE A WOMAN, EVENTUALLY COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THE TORTURE AND MUTILATION THROUGH WHICH HE HAD BEEN PUT” was unclear about that story? What part of “it’s the poster story that has been used to show that trannies are ‘fine’ when the reality was always the exact opposite” was unclear?
Time to come clean. Are you just trolling or are you really this stupid? Because no one can be this stupid if they’re actually reading the posts before replying to them. Why do you support mental illness? Why do you refuse to actually refute anything I’ve said? What is wrong with you?
David wasn't a transgender, trying to make him one was what caused his problems. A transgender person is not a cisgender person, trying to make them one is what causes their problems.
Those are very simple concepts to grasp, the fact you are unable to do it shows who is the stupid.
There's no point in arguing with someone like you who clearly doesn't understand what they are talking about. And no matter how loud you shout, your opinions remain as ignorant as they come.
tallest skill said: In David’s own account, he did not identify as a girl.
Can you read your own words?
List literally one, since I’ve done no such thing and you’ve provided absolutely nothing WHATSOEVER to back your claims other than “it hurts my feelings”. I’m not fucking playing around here. You don’t get to say whatever you want and have it be taken as fact. You don’t get to pretend that your feelings dictate reality. Have a fucking argument.
Are you kidding me? I listed sources. You ignored them.
I'm not saying that sources from conservative publications are wrong because they are conservative (which would be a genetic fallacy) but that your biased consideration of evidence and confirmation bias in compiling your sources does nothing to advance your point.
Your false equivalency? How about that short story you wrote about identifying as Napoleon. Give me a break.
You still have been unable to provide a single legitimate source backing up your point of view.
David wasn't a transgender, trying to make him one was what caused his problems.
And since he’s the initial claim for the “success” of transgender in the first place...
Do you really need your hand held?
A transgender person is not a cisgender person, trying to make them one is what causes their problems.
No, a mentally ill person can be made sane again.
What annoys me is the fact that liberals and their ilk preach the fact that trannies really do have an imbalance in their brains–a real issue in their development that triggers them to feel like a female–and that this issue may even manifest in some physical characteristics, as the body produces slightly more or less testosterone/estrogen. At the same time, they vehemently oppose any hint at the idea that this can be corrected.
“Otherkins” are retards who deserve ridicule, but trannies are usually speaking legitimately when they say they can’t shake the feeling that they are the wrong sex. It is a chemical imbalance, it is a fault in development, and it can be corrected. They want so hard to believe that “it’s who they are; it’s a part of them; it’s their very being!” when no, it’s a fault–a defect–and it can and should be corrected by medical science, just like every other defect that occurs in the body. We don’t claim autism is “just part of who we are!” We don’t claim it of epilepsy, colorblindness, or cancer. We treat those things that the defects that they are and we work to correct them.
Liberals want to have their cake and eat it, too. “It’s a real brain issue; it’s not just a phase!” at the same time as “It’s not something that can be corrected; it’s not just a brain issue!”
...shows who is the stupid.
Yep. For all the world to see.
There's no point in arguing with someone like you who clearly doesn't understand what they are talking about. And no matter how loud you shout, your opinions remain as ignorant as they come.
You’ve yet to have a refutation to anything I’ve said. I’ve been as patient as can be expected when talking to someone who thinks that MUTILATING PEOPLE is an acceptable behavior. I’m going to post something else now, and you’re going to refuse to respond to it in any way. Just KEEP doing that from now on.
Claim:Gender and Sex are a social construct. Origins:Liberals, feminists, and social scientists. Status: False.
The words “gender” and “sex” have been skewed by feminists with the common belief that human behavior (gender roles, sexual identity) are explained 100% by culture. This disregards biological (evolutionary, genetic) factors, despite evidence to counter their belief. Such fallacies are being implemented into universities today.
We do not have a gender, we have a sex: male or feminine.
Definitions: Male: “Of, relating to, or designating the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.” Female: “Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.” Nouns have a gender. – Masculine – Feminine – Indeterminate (When we don’t know whether its female or male from the word. The noun ‘cat’ could be either. Cats have a sex, not a gender.) – Neuter (Tables, cups, gadgets. Objects. Not male or female.)
Two sexes.
XXX, XXY, and XYY all occur. They are always equal to the same sex and are bodily deformations caused by chemical imbalances/underdeveloped genitals. These are deviations–mutations–not a new sex that we’re only just discovering.
XX and XY are by far the most commonly occurring chromosomes, it would be wise to assume that those are the standard and healthy chromosome variations. If you look at the process of meiosis, you’d see that XXY, XYY and the like can only be the result of a flaw in chromosome configuration.
If you’d call these genotypes ‘mural’, then you'd have to call people with Trisomy 21 healthy, too. After all, it occurs due to the same meiotic error that causes sexual chromosome diseases.
“Hermaphrodites exist:” True. “There are more than two sexes, in fact, there are at least seven sexes acknowledged:” False. “It’s possible to be something other than what your anatomy implies:” False.
Genetic mutations/defects can occur in prenatal development. This is not justification for classing these as newly discovered sexes.
“What if someone’s body doesn’t start producing hormones when they reach puberty?” “What about people who have both sets of reproductive organs in whole or part?”
A genetic male yet fully functioning female exists in such a small minority that it is a medical anomaly. 99% of XY women never reach puberty and can never reproduce. People with 46,XY DSD require HRT to go through normal puberty. Their anatomy is also abnormal (they tend to be taller than average women). Fertile XX men do not exist at all.
If someone is mentally female and physically male, this is due to an endocrine disorder, again, not a justification for classing them as a sex on their own.
Take the brain that occurs the most and you will intuitively see that almost the entirety of the human species can be divided into a female brain and a male brain, almost all humans with a male brain possess XY chromosomes, while almost all of the female brains possess XX chromosomes. The point is that during embryonic development, male infants receive a gigantic surge of testosterone. If one or several receptors are not working properly, then certain brain parts remain in the default (female) status that they were in, rather than developing into male parts.
Biological factors–including genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure–are well studied in determining a human sexual orientation. Gender roles and sexual identity are not 100% explained by culture. Sexual orientation is also susceptible to environmental factors: males who have alleles that lead to poor expression of testosterone or are poisoned with chemicals like BPA are far more likely to adopt homosexual/bisexual lifestyles. Soy is high in antiandrogens, and bisphenol A, phthalates, pesticides and herbicides, triclosan and triclocarban, and the added estrogen burden of the water from birth control and HRT also contribute.
The picture to the left shows the typical brain differences between men and women (regardless of sexual preference). This supports the theory that gender is not a social construct at all, but rather a biological one, determined at (more precisely, before) birth. This merely acknowledges well studied, biological, genetic effects in prenatal development, whatever part such factors play. They have an influence in the development of a person.
“Gender is a social construct.” “Cisgendered.”
‘Cisgender’ is a term feminists are now throwing around. Gender is fixed by biological constraints, as well. The fact that there happens to be some people who have psychological issues that make them feel otherwise doesn’t change this fact. I may feel like I am a dolphin–it doesn’t mean that species is a fluid concept. I may feel that I am identical to Barack Obama. That doesn’t make me President of the United States.
Issues like these, when not overwhelmingly caused by mental illness, are rarely caused by enzyme deficiencies in utero leading to improper hormone levels which cause deformities. Those people are still biologically male or female by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. Their congenital abnormalities don’t change the definitions of the words. A baby born with renal agenesis doesn’t cause the presence of kidneys to be a “social construct.”
“This is a way to discriminate against people who aren’t in alignment with arbitrary rules on who can and can’t be what.”
Anything other than XX or XY is an aberration and should be treated as such. Healthy cells are diploid for every chromosome (one X can be replaced for a Y in men). If this is not the case, then cell division will malfunction and genes can be either over- or underexpressed, with a severe impact on the individual’s health. At most, you can argue two genital expressions are enough to satisfy breeding requirements for evolutionarily consistent breeding habits.
There is a reason that XX and XY are the only consistent genotypes. The rest result in infertile and unhealthy individuals. Again, reason to classify these deviations as a disease, rather than a sex.
Personal beliefs and feelings which lack evidence are of no use. There is no sociology required here. Facts are not “discriminatory” or “sexist.” Altering facts so they do not offend people should be of no importance. Implementing flawed, personal beliefs into education cannot be considered progress.
I’ve already covered the mentally ill and you have absolutely nothing to say in response. This just covers any actual physical aberration, which next to zero trannies are.
tallest skill said: In David’s own account, he did not identify as a girl.
Can you read your own words?
Of course he can't. He's obviously oblivious to the fact that he just keeps posting things that contradict his ramblings as if they were supporting them. Very few people can reach that level of stupidity but he's one of those.
what exactly is your problem here? because as far as I can see a trans person deciding to change something about their body has literally nothing to do with you.
'I don't want to call them by a new name/pronouns' And yet when Sean Combs changed his name to Puff Daddy/P Diddy/Diddy and back again to Puff Daddy everyone was ok with it. Get over yourself
'They make me uncomfortable' You make them uncomfortable. People make people uncomfortable. Get over yourself
'I don't want to share a bathroom with them' Either way a trans person who has transitioned is going to be using a stall. No one's going into bathrooms and whipping out their junk. Trans people have the right to take a damn piss. You run into a lot weirder people in the toilets than a 'guy' in a dress
'It goes against my moral beliefs' Now look, there are some morals that are generally accepted by society to be objective truth, like 'murder is bad'. Things like that are upheld because they're made into laws. People changing things about their body is not one of them. Otherwise people wouldn't be allowed to go on diets or get tattoos or piercings. Your views don't run other peoples' lives
'People should just stick to what they're born with' By that logic I should weigh 4.25 kg and have no hair. People change. Get over it.
'Being transgender causes people to commit suicide' No it doesn't. Abusively forcing trans people to behave and dress and look a certain way that goes against how they feel is what causes such a high rate of mental illness in trans people. Let your kids develop on their own and they'll turn out fine.
It's none of your business what's between someone's legs. Just leave them alone
what exactly is your problem here? because as far as I can see a trans person deciding to change something about their body has literally nothing to do with you.
'I don't want to call them by a new name/pronouns' And yet when Sean Combs changed his name to Puff Daddy/P Diddy/Diddy and back again to Puff Daddy everyone was ok with it. Get over yourself
'They make me uncomfortable' You make them uncomfortable. People make people uncomfortable. Get over yourself
'I don't want to share a bathroom with them' Either way a trans person who has transitioned is going to be using a stall. No one's going into bathrooms and whipping out their junk. Trans people have the right to take a damn piss. You run into a lot weirder people in the toilets than a 'guy' in a dress
'It goes against my moral beliefs' Now look, there are some morals that are generally accepted by society to be objective truth, like 'murder is bad'. Things like that are upheld because they're made into laws. People changing things about their body is not one of them. Otherwise people wouldn't be allowed to go on diets or get tattoos or piercings. Your views don't run other peoples' lives
'People should just stick to what they're born with' By that logic I should weigh 4.25 kg and have no hair. People change. Get over it.
'Being transgender causes people to commit suicide' No it doesn't. Abusively forcing trans people to behave and dress and look a certain way that goes against how they feel is what causes such a high rate of mental illness in trans people. Let your kids develop on their own and they'll turn out fine.
It's none of your business what's between someone's legs. Just leave them alone
A great response, hope it makes sense to most people.
Comments
fun fact: his son just came out to me as bisexual :P so there is that
You couldn't make this up. The ignorant deluded guy spewing hate, promoting discrimination, swearing, using derogatory terms, implying people with problems he doesn't understand are mentally ill, etc. is now complaining about insults.
You bunch of knuckle draggers are the laughing stock of modern society but the pain and suffering you cause to some innocent people is too much to laugh about. How about you go back up the tree you came from and let the rest of us, human beings, live in peace?
David Peter Reimer was a Canadian man, sexually reassigned as a female after his penis was destroyed during circumcision. John William Money was a psychologist and author, specializing in research into sexual identity and biology of gender. He persuaded Reimer’s parents that sex reassignment surgery was in David’s best interest. David’s testes were removed and he was assigned the name Brenda. Money saw David annually for roughly a decade for consultations and to assess the outcome of the surgery and societal reassignment. As this case had a control in the form of David’s twin brother Brian, Money sought to validate his claims that gender was exclusively a societal identity.
Reimer said that Money forced the twins to rehearse sexual acts involving “thrusting movements”, with David on the bottom. Reimer said that, as a child, he had to “get down on all fours” with his brother “up behind his butt” with “his crotch against his buttocks”. Money forced him, in another sexual position, to have his “legs spread” with Brian on top. Money also forced the children to “take their clothes off” and engage in “genital inspections”. On “at least one occasion”, Money photographed the children doing these activities. Money’s rationale for this was his belief that “childhood ‘sexual rehearsal play’ was important for a healthy adult gender identity.”
Notes by a former student at Money’s lab state that Reimer’s parents lied to lab staff about the success of the procedure. Brian Reimer developed schizophrenia.
In David’s own account, he did not identify as a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers, and neither the frilly dresses he was forced to wear nor the estrogen he was forced to inject made him feel female. By the age of 13, Reimer experienced suicidal depression, and he told his parents he would commit suicide if they made him see Money again. His parents told him the truth about his gender reassignment, and at 14 he reassumed his male identity, calling himself David. He underwent testosterone injections, and double mastectomy, and two phalloplasty operations. David told his story to sexologist Milton Diamond in order to dissuade physicians from treating other infants similarly.
For the first 30 years after Money’s initial report that the reassignment had been a success, his view on the “malleability” of gender became the dominant viewpoint among physicians and doctors, reassuring them that sexual reassignment was the correct decision in certain instances, resulting in thousands of sexual reassignments.
No force of will, no power of man, and no act of God will EVER make you into anything other than what you were born.Now either respond with a refutation, rebuttal, disproof, or actual argument, or don’t fucking bother.
And he's so clueless about what he is talking about that he posts the case of David Reimer which clearly shows the problems of having a male brain in a woman's body as supporting his case when it does completely the opposite.
Time to come clean. Are you just trolling or are you really this stupid? Because no one can be this stupid if they’re actually reading the posts before replying to them. Why do you support mental illness? Why do you refuse to actually refute anything I’ve said? What is wrong with you?
so then you see what I'm saying, no? according to your own source gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
Leonardo Da Vinci
Michelangelo di Ludovico Buonarroti
Alexander the Great
Hadrian
Oscar Wilde
Walt Whitman
Alan Turing
Florence Nightingale
Emily Dickinson
Elanor Roosevelt
Margaret Mead
There was no "appeal to statistics," in a rhetorical sense. I was merely pointing out the fact that you repeatedly refer to statistics that don't exist. From your own words, only a few pages ago: "Except it’s proven by every statistic ever recorded" and "Because of statistics?" And yet--and this is what's really telling--when I called you out on it, you spewed pages and pages of "evidence" that was taken from right wing sources based on conspiracy theories, along with a few broken links and several medical journals that actually disproved your argument.
I can see this practice, in particular, is a pattern with you, because your citing David Peter Reimer only serves as evidence that gender identity is not something that can be arbitrarily decided by a third party, and resides (of course) within the individual's brain.
Has everyone on this thread who has argued against you made flawless arguments backed up by citations of scholarly research? No, of course not. This is an internet forum, not a college research paper. But based on the poor evidence you have provided, your false equivalencies that border on creative fiction exercises, and so many straw men and ad hominem that I can't even keep track any more, you would decidedly receive an F on this paper.
Look, I understand that your point of view is coming from a genuine concern for your children being exposed to something you worry might scar them emotionally. I don't agree with you, but I can understand why you have that position (unlike tallest skill who I think might genuinely be a performance artist). All I ask is for you to imagine for one moment, one of your children telling you one day that they are transgender. Put aside your feelings of "I know my children! That would never happen," because that's what all parents say.
Would you want them to be barred from ever using a public restroom? Would you want laws to prevent them from taking legal action against discrimination in the workplace? You can't just hide in your home for the rest of your life. You have to be a part of society. And that's why this law is a problem. It operates within the fantasy that transgender people are just going to go away. They're not.
jet23 said: Okay, enjoy believing whatever you want to believe.
Genetic fallacy. Already mentioned that.
Nah, medical fact isn’t a conspiracy.
You didn’t even read my excerpt, much less anything else about him.
List literally one, since I’ve done no such thing and you’ve provided absolutely nothing WHATSOEVER to back your claims other than “it hurts my feelings”. I’m not fucking playing around here. You don’t get to say whatever you want and have it be taken as fact. You don’t get to pretend that your feelings dictate reality. Have a fucking argument.
Nah, a sane person would just get his mentally ill child the treatment he actually needs rather than feed the mental illness.
No, they’re absolutely going away. 100%.
A transgender person is not a cisgender person, trying to make them one is what causes their problems.
Those are very simple concepts to grasp, the fact you are unable to do it shows who is the stupid.
There's no point in arguing with someone like you who clearly doesn't understand what they are talking about. And no matter how loud you shout, your opinions remain as ignorant as they come.
Can you read your own words?
Are you kidding me? I listed sources. You ignored them.
I'm not saying that sources from conservative publications are wrong because they are conservative (which would be a genetic fallacy) but that your biased consideration of evidence and confirmation bias in compiling your sources does nothing to advance your point.
Your false equivalency? How about that short story you wrote about identifying as Napoleon. Give me a break.
You still have been unable to provide a single legitimate source backing up your point of view.
Do you really need your hand held?
No, a mentally ill person can be made sane again.
What annoys me is the fact that liberals and their ilk preach the fact that trannies really do have an imbalance in their brains–a real issue in their development that triggers them to feel like a female–and that this issue may even manifest in some physical characteristics, as the body produces slightly more or less testosterone/estrogen. At the same time, they vehemently oppose any hint at the idea that this can be corrected.
“Otherkins” are retards who deserve ridicule, but trannies are usually speaking legitimately when they say they can’t shake the feeling that they are the wrong sex. It is a chemical imbalance, it is a fault in development, and it can be corrected. They want so hard to believe that “it’s who they are; it’s a part of them; it’s their very being!” when no, it’s a fault–a defect–and it can and should be corrected by medical science, just like every other defect that occurs in the body. We don’t claim autism is “just part of who we are!” We don’t claim it of epilepsy, colorblindness, or cancer. We treat those things that the defects that they are and we work to correct them.
Liberals want to have their cake and eat it, too. “It’s a real brain issue; it’s not just a phase!” at the same time as “It’s not something that can be corrected; it’s not just a brain issue!”
Yep. For all the world to see.You’ve yet to have a refutation to anything I’ve said. I’ve been as patient as can be expected when talking to someone who thinks that MUTILATING PEOPLE is an acceptable behavior. I’m going to post something else now, and you’re going to refuse to respond to it in any way. Just KEEP doing that from now on.
Origins: Liberals, feminists, and social scientists.
Status: False.
The words “gender” and “sex” have been skewed by feminists with the common belief that human behavior (gender roles, sexual identity) are explained 100% by culture. This disregards biological (evolutionary, genetic) factors, despite evidence to counter their belief. Such fallacies are being implemented into universities today.
We do not have a gender, we have a sex: male or feminine.
Male: “Of, relating to, or designating the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.”
Female: “Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.”
Nouns have a gender.
– Masculine
– Feminine
– Indeterminate (When we don’t know whether its female or male from the word.
The noun ‘cat’ could be either. Cats have a sex, not a gender.)
– Neuter
(Tables, cups, gadgets. Objects. Not male or female.)
Two sexes.
XXX, XXY, and XYY all occur. They are always equal to the same sex and are bodily deformations caused by chemical imbalances/underdeveloped genitals. These are deviations–mutations–not a new sex that we’re only just discovering.
XX and XY are by far the most commonly occurring chromosomes, it would be wise to assume that those are the standard and healthy chromosome variations. If you look at the process of meiosis, you’d see that XXY, XYY and the like can only be the result of a flaw in chromosome configuration.
If you’d call these genotypes ‘mural’, then you'd have to call people with Trisomy 21 healthy, too. After all, it occurs due to the same meiotic error that causes sexual chromosome diseases.
“There are more than two sexes, in fact, there are at least seven sexes acknowledged:” False.
“It’s possible to be something other than what your anatomy implies:” False.
Genetic mutations/defects can occur in prenatal development. This is not justification for classing these as newly discovered sexes.
“What about people who have both sets of reproductive organs in whole or part?”
A genetic male yet fully functioning female exists in such a small minority that it is a medical anomaly. 99% of XY women never reach puberty and can never reproduce. People with 46,XY DSD require HRT to go through normal puberty. Their anatomy is also abnormal (they tend to be taller than average women). Fertile XX men do not exist at all.
If someone is mentally female and physically male, this is due to an endocrine disorder, again, not a justification for classing them as a sex on their own.
Take the brain that occurs the most and you will intuitively see that almost the entirety of the human species can be divided into a female brain and a male brain, almost all humans with a male brain possess XY chromosomes, while almost all of the female brains possess XX chromosomes. The point is that during embryonic development, male infants receive a gigantic surge of testosterone. If one or several receptors are not working properly, then certain brain parts remain in the default (female) status that they were in, rather than developing into male parts.
Biological factors–including genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure–are well studied in determining a human sexual orientation. Gender roles and sexual identity are not 100% explained by culture. Sexual orientation is also susceptible to environmental factors: males who have alleles that lead to poor expression of testosterone or are poisoned with chemicals like BPA are far more likely to adopt homosexual/bisexual lifestyles. Soy is high in antiandrogens, and bisphenol A, phthalates, pesticides and herbicides, triclosan and triclocarban, and the added estrogen burden of the water from birth control and HRT also contribute.
The picture to the left shows the typical brain differences between men and women (regardless of sexual preference). This supports the theory that gender is not a social construct at all, but rather a biological one, determined at (more precisely, before) birth. This merely acknowledges well studied, biological, genetic effects in prenatal development, whatever part such factors play. They have an influence in the development of a person.
“Cisgendered.”
‘Cisgender’ is a term feminists are now throwing around. Gender is fixed by biological constraints, as well. The fact that there happens to be some people who have psychological issues that make them feel otherwise doesn’t change this fact. I may feel like I am a dolphin–it doesn’t mean that species is a fluid concept. I may feel that I am identical to Barack Obama. That doesn’t make me President of the United States.
Issues like these, when not overwhelmingly caused by mental illness, are rarely caused by enzyme deficiencies in utero leading to improper hormone levels which cause deformities. Those people are still biologically male or female by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. Their congenital abnormalities don’t change the definitions of the words. A baby born with renal agenesis doesn’t cause the presence of kidneys to be a “social construct.”
“This is a way to discriminate against people who aren’t in alignment with arbitrary rules on who can and can’t be what.”
Anything other than XX or XY is an aberration and should be treated as such. Healthy cells are diploid for every chromosome (one X can be replaced for a Y in men). If this is not the case, then cell division will malfunction and genes can be either over- or underexpressed, with a severe impact on the individual’s health. At most, you can argue two genital expressions are enough to satisfy breeding requirements for evolutionarily consistent breeding habits.
There is a reason that XX and XY are the only consistent genotypes. The rest result in infertile and unhealthy individuals. Again, reason to classify these deviations as a disease, rather than a sex.
Personal beliefs and feelings which lack evidence are of no use. There is no sociology required here. Facts are not “discriminatory” or “sexist.” Altering facts so they do not offend people should be of no importance. Implementing flawed, personal beliefs into education cannot be considered progress.
I’ve already covered the mentally ill and you have absolutely nothing to say in response. This just covers any actual physical aberration, which next to zero trannies are.
'I don't want to call them by a new name/pronouns'
And yet when Sean Combs changed his name to Puff Daddy/P Diddy/Diddy and back again to Puff Daddy everyone was ok with it. Get over yourself
'They make me uncomfortable'
You make them uncomfortable. People make people uncomfortable. Get over yourself
'I don't want to share a bathroom with them'
Either way a trans person who has transitioned is going to be using a stall. No one's going into bathrooms and whipping out their junk. Trans people have the right to take a damn piss. You run into a lot weirder people in the toilets than a 'guy' in a dress
'It goes against my moral beliefs'
Now look, there are some morals that are generally accepted by society to be objective truth, like 'murder is bad'. Things like that are upheld because they're made into laws. People changing things about their body is not one of them. Otherwise people wouldn't be allowed to go on diets or get tattoos or piercings. Your views don't run other peoples' lives
'People should just stick to what they're born with'
By that logic I should weigh 4.25 kg and have no hair. People change. Get over it.
'Being transgender causes people to commit suicide'
No it doesn't. Abusively forcing trans people to behave and dress and look a certain way that goes against how they feel is what causes such a high rate of mental illness in trans people. Let your kids develop on their own and they'll turn out fine.
It's none of your business what's between someone's legs. Just leave them alone