Apple profiles iPad apps for World Autism Acceptance Day

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 57
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    foggyhill said:
    hmm said:
    Are you familiar with the types of treatment available? They do not  address primary symptoms. Saying it can be cured is currently science fiction and not relevant today.
    Well, brain malleability discoveries in the last decade suggest that your brain could "work around" some limitations, though obviously not the most severe ones.
    That explains how people high on the spectrum can actually do quite well.

    It's a akin to physical therapy not "curing" amputation, but can lead to a much better life anyway.
    It may help, but it doesn't necessarily render the condition invisible to others outside of high functioning individuals. My impression (both anecdotal and from reading) is that even with treatment, many autistic individuals still show obvious differences.

    Awareness of these things may help in a couple ways. Awareness can help generate research interest or make it easier to fund studies. It may help minimize social ostracism of autistic individuals by their peers. This could help some of the lower functioning individuals live independently as adults.
  • Reply 22 of 57
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    hmm said:
    Saying it can be cured is currently science fiction and not relevant today.
    Okay, so you’re against the idea of calling exclusively for cancer treatment/cures, then. You’d prefer they be called Cancer Awareness groups. Fair enough. What about the current interest in exciting stem cells to grow into replacement parts for people? People are head over heels excited for what that tech will imply. Have you heard anything about it? Great stuff, and it’s progressing about as fast as they expected it to, which is nearly unheard of.

    Imagine an amputee being able to have his blood drawn, stem cells extracted, excited into bone, muscle, nerve, and skin, and 3D printed into a new arm. Why should we simply be “aware” of amputees when we could deamputate them?
    cnocbui said:
    Please provide a link or two that shows a proven method for 'curing' Autism or Asperger's syndrome.
    You’ll want to read my post.
    why- said:
    oh my god you literally know nothing about mental illness
    Oh my God, you literally don’t read posts before replying to them. Is it really that difficult for you?

    auxio said:
    Why not do both?
    Because why should we “accept” something that can be made better?
    And there is danger in the pursuit of a "cure".  While I definitely believe that it's beneficial to treat the speech and physical impairments so that people with autism are better able to navigate the world, I strongly feel that their mental diversity (i.e. the different ways they perceive the world) can be beneficial to humanity if we learn to understand and integrate it into society.
    I’ve heard the same said by people who live around those with Down Syndrome. Guess what? That’s fucking insanity on their part. How DARE they presume to know anything about what those people experience? How DARE they try to say that their lives would be better if they continued to be impaired? These people not only want to not help those who already have it, they want to stop work in PREVENTING the problem in the first place. There are no words for this amount of insanity.
    It's already well documented that there have been many people with asperger's (now considered to be part of the autism spectrum) who have contributed much to our world.
    Of course! Imagine how much more they could have, though. And that goes for anything, not jus this.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 23 of 57
    why-why- Posts: 305member
     Oh my God, you literally don’t read posts before replying to them. Is it really that difficult for you?
    yeah maybe it is

    Because why should we “accept” something that can be made better?
    because that's not what accepting means. it doesn't mean saying 'oh well there's nothing we can do we might as well just let these people be'. it means not stigmatizing mental illnesses, it means not treating autistic people like outcasts, it means understanding that their autism is not their fault and to fight it you need to fight the illness not the person. accepting means taking them for who they are and loving them for it and helping them in a productive way and not treating them like they're a disease that needs to be scrubbed out
    edited April 2016 afrodri
  • Reply 24 of 57
    Everyone, what Apple has just introduced you to is truly just the beginning!

    Do you remember the Faceshift purchase?

    Well, Faceshift facial recognition technology is being used by neuroscientists to study autism.

    Now take the study into the realm of virtual reality.

    While attending the IEEE VR 2016 conference in Greenville, South Carolina in March, someone discussed a scenario where autistic children were using VR technology to help them deal with uncomfortable situations. 

    One autistic tic boy asked a female avatar for a date.

    Doctors got concerned the boy did not understand the avatar was not real and decided to intervene while totally forgetting the purpose of the VR sessions. 

    The he boy told the doctors he understood the avatar was not real and that he was practicing how to ask a real girl who he liked on a date. 

    The he doctors were shocked that they had misunderstood what was going on with their own tools!!

    The boy was using the VR tools exactly as they were supposed to be used: to help autistic children learn to deal with uncomfortable situations. 

    When end I heard this story, it triggered a memory of Faceshift working in this environment.

    When I saw Faceshift's name listed in the technologies being used by doctors, I realized Apple had become more deeply involved in autistic research than mainstream publications were writing about.
    '
    AppleInsider and others are focused on VR primarily as a gaming platform. 

    Apple is looking beyond VR gaming. 

    I do believe Apple will get involved with VR gaming, but Apple will be looking and reaching for a wider spectrum of use cases for VR.

    I look forward to learning what else Apple presents for autism this month and beyond. 



    ration al
  • Reply 25 of 57
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    why- said:
    it means not stigmatizing mental illnesses
    So... the opposite of what should be done.
    it means understanding that their autism is not their fault and to fight it you need to fight the illness not the person
    Who thinks that? How is that even a relevant thing to say? Of course you’re fighting the illness. If you say “cure autism”, you don’t think about removing them from the gene pool. 
    treating them like they're a disease that needs to be scrubbed out
    Again, who thinks that? You don’t seem to comprehend the idea of fighting an illness.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 26 of 57
    why-why- Posts: 305member
    why- said:
    it means not stigmatizing mental illnesses
    So... the opposite of what should be done.
    Who thinks that? How is that even a relevant thing to say? Of course you’re fighting the illness. If you say “cure autism”, you don’t think about removing them from the gene pool. 
    Again, who thinks that? You don’t seem to comprehend the idea of fighting an illness.

    wait so you think we should stigmatize mental illnesses?


    and actually I do know what it's like to fight mental illness. I know exactly what it's like. I know what it's like to wake up every morning not knowing how I'm going to feel that day, not knowing what kind of reactions I'll have to whatever comes my way. I know how it feels to sit down with people and have them tell me there's nothing wrong with me, that I'm making it all up. I know how it feels to have people tell me I'm messed up or 'retarded' and that I need to be on medication. I know what it's like to have people stare at me when I'm having an episode, how it feels to look in there eyes and see not only fear and confusion but disgust. I know what it feels like to constantly have to tell people that they need to make special exceptions for me because I have difficulty doing 'normal' things. I know what it's like to sit on the edge of my bed with a knife to my wrists and have someone come in and joke about it. I know exactly what it feels like to lie in my bed for days not doing anything because I'm afraid of what will happen if I get up.
    edited April 2016 cnocbuiafrodri
  • Reply 27 of 57
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    hexclock said:
    xbit said:
    I think the point is that you don't know whether that $125 app will benefit your child until you try it.

    But, I agree, it's peanuts compared to what it used to cost.
    NovaChat was at least $300.00. The school I am familiar with provides several iPads per class, and the typical class size is 5-6 children, but the kids can't take them home and so need to have their own anyway. 
    Autism ignores economic boundaries as do most diseases, so to some people it's quite a lot of money, despite what Apple 2 seems to think. 

    Really, $300 bucks is "a lot" for this type of things that can run on an Ipad 2 easy ($100 used)?
    Something that would help your child a hell of a lot. Give me a break.
    Most people I know, even the poorest, have god damn flat screen TV's and I'm pretty sure they paid at least $300 for them.
    If it's important enough, and you can do it, you will do it.

    My ,parents were lower working class in the 1970s and still hired a math tutor when I had troubles, at a great sacrifice to them, a hell of lot more than $300 in modern modern.

    Of course, there are people that are destitute and in this case, it's not Apple that will save their child because they'll be lacking many other things than an Ipad, things like food and a roof.

    By you're measure, Apple should ship phones and Ipad's to africa cause you know, they don't have money to buy them...

    The whole spiel is tiresome.
    edited April 2016 nolamacguy
  • Reply 28 of 57
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    tallest skil said:
    You’ll want to read my post.
    I did.  I even re-read it and it's no less ignorant the second time around.  It's Trump logic.

    My son has Aspergers and I have a considerable number of years of experience coping and living with the condition.  It's not an 'illness', it's a disability.  Suggesting 'treating' it suggests there is a 'treatment'.  There isn't.  Emotional reasoning is not something which can be learned because it's a hardwired brain function.

    I feel guilty even saying 'disability because luckily in my son's case it also coincides with an IQ far higher than the majority of humanity and abilities most people don't possess.
    nolamacguyafrodri
  • Reply 29 of 57
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,250member
    foggyhill said:
    hexclock said:
    NovaChat was at least $300.00. The school I am familiar with provides several iPads per class, and the typical class size is 5-6 children, but the kids can't take them home and so need to have their own anyway. 
    Autism ignores economic boundaries as do most diseases, so to some people it's quite a lot of money, despite what Apple 2 seems to think. 

    Really, $300 bucks is "a lot" for this type of things that can run on an Ipad 2 easy ($100 used)?
    Something that would help your child a hell of a lot. Give me a break.
    Most people I know, even the poorest, have god damn flat screen TV's and I'm pretty sure they paid at least $300 for them.
    If it's important enough, and you can do it, you will do it.

    My ,parents were lower working class in the 1970s and still hired a math tutor when I had troubles, at a great sacrifice to them, a hell of lot more than $300 in modern modern.

    Of course, there are people that are destitute and in this case, it's not Apple that will save their child because they'll be lacking many other things than an Ipad, things like food and a roof.

    By you're measure, Apple should ship phones and Ipad's to africa cause you know, they don't have money to buy them...

    The whole spiel is tiresome.
    Jesus Christ relax. No need for all the vitriol. I was making an observation, nothing more. 
  • Reply 30 of 57
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    hexclock said:
    foggyhill said:
    Really, $300 bucks is "a lot" for this type of things that can run on an Ipad 2 easy ($100 used)?
    Something that would help your child a hell of a lot. Give me a break.
    Most people I know, even the poorest, have god damn flat screen TV's and I'm pretty sure they paid at least $300 for them.
    If it's important enough, and you can do it, you will do it.

    My ,parents were lower working class in the 1970s and still hired a math tutor when I had troubles, at a great sacrifice to them, a hell of lot more than $300 in modern modern.

    Of course, there are people that are destitute and in this case, it's not Apple that will save their child because they'll be lacking many other things than an Ipad, things like food and a roof.

    By you're measure, Apple should ship phones and Ipad's to africa cause you know, they don't have money to buy them...

    The whole spiel is tiresome.
    Jesus Christ relax. No need for all the vitriol. I was making an observation, nothing more. 
    Read you're own post. It wasn't an observation but a fracking declaration, with a stab at Apple on the side.

    When you post BS, vitriol is perfectly warranted.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 31 of 57
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member

    I’ve heard the same said by people who live around those with Down Syndrome. Guess what? That’s fucking insanity on their part.
    I have a son with autism.  And I've spent time with people who have children who have Down Syndrome as they were in some of the same therapies as my son.  It's not the same as Down Syndrome at all.  Autism is also a wide spectrum of disorders, and even if you've met one child with autism, you've only seen one small slice of the spectrum.  

     How DARE they presume to know anything about what those people experience? How DARE they try to say that their lives would be better if they continued to be impaired? These people not only want to not help those who already have it, they want to stop work in PREVENTING the problem in the first place. There are no words for this amount of insanity.
    And how DARE you presume to know what they want or speak for them either.  My son is quite young and can't really explain well how he feels yet (though he is verbal), but many older people I've met who are on the spectrum (who have a means of communication) don't feel they need to be "cured" of anything.  They're mainly looking for people to understand and accept their differences (very similar to Dylan), and they have the same aspirations as everyone else.  Which is how I've come to have the viewpoint I do.  I assume you have real world experience with people who have autism which you're basing your views on?

    That all said, I do understand that there are those on the spectrum with quite extreme mental and physical disorders, and so obviously we should be looking for ways to treat those disorders (and help the families) so that they can have a better quality of life.  However, one thing to know is that there is a long history of institutionalizing people with autism, before doctors even understood it as such, and in most cases such treatment was found to be cruel and didn't lead to a better quality of life at all.
    edited April 2016 cnocbui
  • Reply 32 of 57
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    apple ][ said:
    hexclock said:
    A friend of mine works with autistic kids, and the iPads are quite prevalent. They use NovaChat and Proloquo mostly. I looked at those on the App Store and they are quite expensive. Probably covered under most health plans but too expensive to experiment with as casual user. 
    What kind of parent wouldn't spend a lousy $125 on an app that would greatly benefit their child that has autism?

    Have you been to a doctor or hospital lately? $125 is peanuts. The last time that I went to a doctor, I was probably there for less than 5 minutes, and that was more than $125.
    A couple of points to consider:

    1. Here in Canada we have public health care, so it doesn't cost anything to go to the doctor in most cases.
    2. Last time I heard, the divorce rate for families of children with autism was around 65%.  I personally know a number of single mothers of children with autism who are struggling to get by because they can't hold a full-time job due to the fact that it requires a lot of time to take them to all of the therapies, and the mother is constantly having to pick them up from school because they've had a meltdown (or similar) and the school isn't equipped to deal with them in that state.  So the cost isn't negligible in many situations.

    edited April 2016 cnocbui
  • Reply 33 of 57
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    cnocbui said:
    I did.
    Blindingly obvious that you didn't.
    It's not an 'illness', it's a disability.  Suggesting 'treating' it suggests there is a 'treatment'.  There isn't.  
    I guess that we should stop working on ocular and aural implants, then. There's no possible way to fix a disability or anything.

    What don't you get about what I'm saying? How is it hard for you to parse? I'll gladly rewrite it if you just don't understand.
    I feel guilty even saying 'disability because luckily in my son's case it also coincides with an IQ far higher than the majority of humanity and abilities most people don't possess.
    As was said before, no one is discounting any achievements or contributions made by anyone of any ability here. The point is that acceptance is fucking bullshit and only serves to damage everyone.
    auxio said:
    ...many older people I've met who are on the spectrum don't feel they need to be "cured" of anything.  
    Neither do [insert any given externally harmful psychological state here]. That's not really relevant. These things can BE defined, objectively, using scientific standards. Would you agree that at the very least an inability to comprehend the concept of a better state of being would warrant continued work toward fixing whatever condition causes the individual not to be able to comprehend it?
    That all said, I do understand that there are those on the spectrum with quite extreme mental and physical disorders, and so obviously we should be looking for ways to treat those disorders
    Lovely; yes. That's exactly right.
    However, one thing to know is that there is a long history of institutionalizing people with autism...
    Yes, and sanatoriums are absolutely the wrong thing to do. There's no question about that. The point is that the only time acceptance should come into the picture is on the part of the caretaker going through the initial (hate to even call it this) "stages of grief" upon being told this. Beyond that work should be done to prepare the individual for life as a result of the condition.

    'Acceptance' is resigning yourself to a state of being rather than striving for more. We don't tell cancer patients to "accept" the cancer. We only tell them to accept that they have it and thereafter work with the implications of fixing it. It doesn't mean we don't stop working to cure it. We don't tell amputee soldiers to "accept" never being able to walk again. We tell them to accept that they don't have biological legs anymore and thereafter work with the implications of prosthetics. It doesn't mean that we don't stop working to regrow lost limbs.

    The use of the word 'acceptance' is artificially and subconsciously damning. Words have meanings and meanings have implications, from which an emotional response is drawn. The use of specific words as a calculated effort can direct these responses to a predetermined goal. My point is that said goal is WRONG.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 34 of 57
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    cnocbui said:
    I did.
    The point is that acceptance is fucking bullshit and only serves to damage everyone.
    Do you honestly argue like this with people in real life?  Why can't we have a real, rational debate here instead of letting it degrade into this?

    My point, without all the pointless vitriol and swearing, is that we absolutely should be looking for ways to overcome the mental and physical disabilities which interfere with the quality of life for people and families of people with autism (overcoming communication barriers, preventing uncontrollable physical outbursts, etc).  However, the problem I have the concept of a "cure for autism" is that, historically, it's lead to people trying all sorts of extreme, unproven, and often cruel therapies and/or medication.  And also, to many companies/doctors looking to make a quick buck off of other people's desperation.

    So I'm not saying we should simply accept that there's no way to help people with autism (or stop looking for ways to help them and their families).  I'm simply saying that the concept of a "cure for autism" has done far more harm than good in the world at this point.
    afrodri
  • Reply 35 of 57
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,250member
    foggyhill said:
    hexclock said:
    Jesus Christ relax. No need for all the vitriol. I was making an observation, nothing more. 
    Read you're own post. It wasn't an observation but a fracking declaration, with a stab at Apple on the side.

    When you post BS, vitriol is perfectly warranted.
    Perhaps you misread. I was commenting on something Apple ][ had written, although I wrote it as "Apple 2". I also never suggested Apple send free stuff to African countries, you just kind of made that up. 
  • Reply 36 of 57
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    cnocbui said:
    I did.
    'Acceptance' is resigning yourself to a state of being rather than striving for more. We don't tell cancer patients to "accept" the cancer. We only tell them to accept that they have it and thereafter work with the implications of fixing it. It doesn't mean we don't stop working to cure it. We don't tell amputee soldiers to "accept" never being able to walk again. We tell them to accept that they don't have biological legs anymore and thereafter work with the implications of prosthetics. It doesn't mean that we don't stop working to regrow lost limbs.

    The use of the word 'acceptance' is artificially and subconsciously damning. Words have meanings and meanings have implications, from which an emotional response is drawn. The use of specific words as a calculated effort can direct these responses to a predetermined goal. My point is that said goal is WRONG.
    Now, let's try to look at it from a different perspective if we can.  'acceptance' can also mean taking the time to learn about and understand the condition of another person.  And, in doing so, coming to understand and 'accept' that the differences they have from yourself aren't necessarily wrong (as you first believed).

    In the case of physical conditions like cancer or amputated/missing limbs, it's clear that there is something wrong with one's body, and there's a clear solution you're working towards.  In the case of autism, apart from solving the physical impairments and other conditions which clearly interfere with quality of life, it's not so clear-cut what needs to be solved.  Many so-called normal people have problems in they way they interact with others or the way they go about their life.  They end up in jobs which they are unsuited for, with partners they are unsuited for, and generally cause themselves hardship which could be avoided if they weren't locked into their state of being.  What's to say that the way autistic people experience and interact with the world is wrong and needs to be cured?
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 37 of 57
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    auxio said:
    Do you honestly argue like this with people in real life?  Why can't we have a real, rational debate here instead of letting it degrade into this?
    Feelings are meaningless and I’m done wasting time beating around the bush. That’s all there is to it.
    ...we absolutely should be looking for ways to overcome the mental and physical disabilities which interfere with the quality of life for people and families of people with autism (overcoming communication barriers, preventing uncontrollable physical outbursts, etc).
    Indeed! but that’s the opposite of acceptance.
    audio said:
    In the case of autism, apart from solving the physical impairments and other conditions which clearly interfere with quality of life, it's not so clear-cut what needs to be solved.
    if it can be classified as a deviance from normalcy, then of course it is quantifiable what is wrong. At the very least that it is wrong. To say nothing of how to fix it or the process by which it is made wrong, of course. We’re further from understanding the mechanisms of the relevant topic than with many other things, sure.
    What's to say that the way autistic people experience and interact with the world is wrong and needs to be cured?
    Sort of a roundabout analogy, but take, for example, headaches and the medicine that fixes them. We don’t understand how the medicine works, only that it works. Does that mean that we should accept our headaches? Not do anything to fix them? Simply live our lives impaired, working around them?
  • Reply 38 of 57
    why-why- Posts: 305member

    if it can be classified as a deviance from normalcy, then of course it is quantifiable what is wrong. At the very least that it is wrong. To say nothing of how to fix it or the process by which it is made wrong, of course. We’re further from understanding the mechanisms of the relevant topic than with many other things, sure.
    you know you and people like you really scare me and are the reason I avoid neurotypical people whenever I can
    cnocbui
  • Reply 39 of 57
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    why- said:
    you know you and people like you really scare me and are the reason I avoid neurotypical people whenever I can
    Why do you keep making my argument for me? I mean, really. Is that an elemental function of your condition, or is it just a matter of your shared belief system?

    Come off it.
  • Reply 40 of 57
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    auxio said:
    Do you honestly argue like this with people in real life?  Why can't we have a real, rational debate here instead of letting it degrade into this?
    Sort of a roundabout analogy, but take, for example, headaches and the medicine that fixes them. We don’t understand how the medicine works, only that it works. Does that mean that we should accept our headaches? Not do anything to fix them? Simply live our lives impaired, working around them?
    It's a pretty stretched analogy since, as with the other examples you gave, headaches are another clear-cut ailment of the body.  More akin to getting a cut than autism.

    But to go with it a bit -- I personally choose not to take pain medication when I get a headache (unless it's really bad) because I don't like taking medication which I feel simply masks another problem.  In most cases I can trace my headache back to lack of sleep, not eating properly, or other preventable root causes.  In many cases, I think people with persistent headaches might be able to do the same (find and treat the root cause rather than just the symptom).

    To tie this back in with autism: instead of simply trying to bring people with autism to some definition of normal state (which may or may not make life better for them), help them to find areas of society where the way they perceive and interact with the world could be put to good use.  For example, many people with autism who can't connect with people emotionally seem to be able to do so well with animals.  So get them get into fields of work where one needs to be good with animals.  Which could lead to much more enjoyment in life than simply being normal (but losing the ability to connect with animals or experience emotions in that way).
    edited April 2016
Sign In or Register to comment.