I'm going to take the challenge...sell my 4-5 year old MBP, my 9 year old iMac (original intel), buy the iPadPro (Rose) w/keyboard. New Se (Rose) and an AppleWatch. Already have the new AppleTV.
The only downside is I have to buy a new printer that will work with iOS ($100). I think I can do all that for pretty close to the price of the MacBook, which I love.
There has never been a debate about putting OS X on an iPad... it's only people like you who think that would somehow be a good idea. If you think that's a good idea, then a Microsoft Surface might be an option for you. It's a worthless tablet if you're trying to use desktop apps. So you see people with them using them exactly like a laptop and plugging in a mouse. Just get a decent laptop. I never see anyone using them as a tablet.
Personally I use my SP4 as a notebook and tablet without issues. I navigate desktop appplications with the trackpad and use touch with Netflix, MS Office Mobile and a PDF annotator. That makes more sense that trying to use an iPP with the Smart Keyboard, which requires to navigate the UI with touch in a vertical position. This is one of the most critizice things of touchscreen notebooks, and now that's what Apple doing with iPP and the Smart Keyboard.
I'm totally not understanding what the proponents of putting OS X on the iPad are expecting they would get that is not already being provided by the MacBook or MacBook Air.
iOS and OS X are two different operating systems designed for two different user experience models. One is immersive, single application centric, and touch-first and the other is multiple application, multi-window, and keyboard + mouse driven. Each operating system is purposely designed to optimally exploit the platform that it was designed to run on. Running iOS on a Mac or OS X on an iPad wouldn't do anyone any favors.
I think that people asking for OS X as it's currently implemented to run on iPad are asking the wrong question based on an assumption that iOS and OS X are the only choices. The real ask should be that Apple develop a single operating system that exploits the best of any platform that it runs on and provides an optimal user experience that is not compromised or inhibited in any way by the lack of mouse, keyboard, or touch and has all of the best features of any OS with immersive single application focus and scattered windows all at the same time. Maybe you call it Unicorn OS.
Microsoft's attempt at the Unicorn OS is Windows 8 and Windows 10. How's that working out? Maybe in a perfect world where you can make all legacy applications walk the plank and get left behind you may be able to approach something reasonable. But it will never be easy. Look at Microsoft's flailing with Windows 8 and the deprecation of a lot of the touch-first approach from Windows 8 to keyboard+mouse centric Windows 10. It's going to involve a lot of compromise and it will probably take the better part of a decade for users to "get it." When I look at Microsoft's attempt with Surface I struggle to understand why it's ever seen as an improvement versus a traditional clamshell PC for keyboard-mouse interactions. Hence the Surface Book. As a tablet, requiring a keyboard+mouse to be productive doesn't make sense. Trying to run legacy Windows apps that don't handle high-DPI monitors is not a pleasant experience either. Legacy is a boat anchor.
If Apple tries to go down the same one-size-kinda-sorta-but-not-always path as Microsoft they'd hit the same issues with backward compatibility, legacy apps, and compromises and confusion throughout the user experience. They'd also be ignoring the fundamental changes that have occurred in personal computing over the past 10 years, which is that for the vast majority of users the smartphone and tablet have replaced the traditional PC for personal use. At some point we'll all look at legacy operating systems that were designed around human-computer interaction models that were formulated in the mid-1980s and marvel at the crude complexities and mechanizations that humans had to endure just to accomplish the most basic of personal tasks like sending a document or picture to someone or balancing their checkbook. You can only drag along the horseless carriage paradigm for so long if you're future potential is something akin to a Tesla. Sure they'll be people in industry using the ancient computer paradigms well into the future just like there are still ancient industrial machines gobbling up power in old factories, but at a personal human level the die has been cast and handhelds and wearables that interact with humans via natural interaction mechanisms will rule the day. Apple's iOS platform is clearly in a better position to get Apple to the next generation and beyond. OS X is a proud warrior built for a past generation of battles - but its significance and capabilities peaked a half dozen years ago, much like Windows, and it'll slowly slide into its place in history while iOS and its descendants take on the next generation of challenges. Putting OS X on a platform built for iOS would be like putting a boat anchor for an aircraft carrier on your speedboat.
Right now, MS unicorn OS, Windows 10, has it's compromises. But still have a lot of benefits over iOS, which has a lot more compromises, specially now that Apple is trying to push it as a desktop replacement. For exampe, trackpad / mouse are more ergonomic to navigate UI than iPP / iOS with touch in a vertical position. Multitasking and side by side applications are better in Windows than iOS. Multimonitor and external storage are two other benefits. Long story short, all environments have compromises, but right now, Windows has less compromises than iOS when is used as an "unicorn" OS.
Like you said, for Apple maybe iOS is their future. For MS, still Windows. But what I'm seeing is iOS, an OS designed for mobile devices, being "push" to be a desktop replacement, while Windows is evolving as an OS for that can adapt and be used in desktop, mobile, cloud, HoloLens or IoT.
Starting price of $599 may be too steep for some. - That's why the Air2 still exists. I paid $500 for an iPad 2 five years ago. This is a lot more capable, faster, much thinner with a better display and a lot more features. No issue with it starting at $599.
RAM stays at 2 gigabytes, matching iPad Air 2 - So what? Doesn't seem to hinder performance.
Lightning port is USB 2, only 12.9-inch model has faster USB 3 - Isn't for me, but acknowledged this might be an issue for some.
Ugh, the camera bump - Same as on the phone, would rather have the better camera with a bump than an overall thicker device. Don't particularly care about the bump as mine lives in a case.
What are you trying to accomplish exactly that iOS is not performing for you? Just curious. I'm hoping that with the pro talk that iOS 10 will address shortcomings.
Try to quote one sentence from the middle of the article using an iPad. Probably take 15 minutes just messing with the finicky select handles in order to whittle down the article. On a Mac, 5 seconds.
what's so confusing, honestly if someone is so confused by there being a choice between a half dozen different models then perhaps they ought to be buying an etch a sketch instead
agreed. its not 1997 anymore, there are good reasons to have more than 4 products as in the famous Jobs-returned matrix.
Take-home message - a slick device saddled with a romper room OS.
Spot on review - I've tried many times to manage the shortcomings of iOS, only to be frustrated at every turn. Anything over and above the most elementary tasks are clumsy at best if not impossible. When iOS gets a grown ups' version, I'll leave my MacBook Pro at home. Until then, it's just for fun.
iOS is just a toy, you say?
Steven Sinofsky on tech toys actually being tools:
With both iBooks and my PDF files, I like to read/annotate in portrait mode. Yet, when one uses the Apple keyboard, this is impossible to do -- one is stuck with landscape.
It's six years into the iPad. Why is there no solution yet from Apple for this simple issue (I've written to them about a couple of times, over the years)? Or is there, and I am just unaware of it? Is there a third-party solution that someone might be aware of?
I'm totally not understanding what the proponents of putting OS X on the iPad are expecting they would get that is not already being provided by the MacBook or MacBook Air.
iOS and OS X are two different operating systems designed for two different user experience models. One is immersive, single application centric, and touch-first and the other is multiple application, multi-window, and keyboard + mouse driven. Each operating system is purposely designed to optimally exploit the platform that it was designed to run on. Running iOS on a Mac or OS X on an iPad wouldn't do anyone any favors.
I think that people asking for OS X as it's currently implemented to run on iPad are asking the wrong question based on an assumption that iOS and OS X are the only choices. The real ask should be that Apple develop a single operating system that exploits the best of any platform that it runs on and provides an optimal user experience that is not compromised or inhibited in any way by the lack of mouse, keyboard, or touch and has all of the best features of any OS with immersive single application focus and scattered windows all at the same time. Maybe you call it Unicorn OS.
Microsoft's attempt at the Unicorn OS is Windows 8 and Windows 10. How's that working out? Maybe in a perfect world where you can make all legacy applications walk the plank and get left behind you may be able to approach something reasonable. But it will never be easy. Look at Microsoft's flailing with Windows 8 and the deprecation of a lot of the touch-first approach from Windows 8 to keyboard+mouse centric Windows 10. It's going to involve a lot of compromise and it will probably take the better part of a decade for users to "get it." When I look at Microsoft's attempt with Surface I struggle to understand why it's ever seen as an improvement versus a traditional clamshell PC for keyboard-mouse interactions. Hence the Surface Book. As a tablet, requiring a keyboard+mouse to be productive doesn't make sense. Trying to run legacy Windows apps that don't handle high-DPI monitors is not a pleasant experience either. Legacy is a boat anchor.
If Apple tries to go down the same one-size-kinda-sorta-but-not-always path as Microsoft they'd hit the same issues with backward compatibility, legacy apps, and compromises and confusion throughout the user experience. They'd also be ignoring the fundamental changes that have occurred in personal computing over the past 10 years, which is that for the vast majority of users the smartphone and tablet have replaced the traditional PC for personal use. At some point we'll all look at legacy operating systems that were designed around human-computer interaction models that were formulated in the mid-1980s and marvel at the crude complexities and mechanizations that humans had to endure just to accomplish the most basic of personal tasks like sending a document or picture to someone or balancing their checkbook. You can only drag along the horseless carriage paradigm for so long if you're future potential is something akin to a Tesla. Sure they'll be people in industry using the ancient computer paradigms well into the future just like there are still ancient industrial machines gobbling up power in old factories, but at a personal human level the die has been cast and handhelds and wearables that interact with humans via natural interaction mechanisms will rule the day. Apple's iOS platform is clearly in a better position to get Apple to the next generation and beyond. OS X is a proud warrior built for a past generation of battles - but its significance and capabilities peaked a half dozen years ago, much like Windows, and it'll slowly slide into its place in history while iOS and its descendants take on the next generation of challenges. Putting OS X on a platform built for iOS would be like putting a boat anchor for an aircraft carrier on your speedboat.
Right now, MS unicorn OS, Windows 10, has it's compromises. But still have a lot of benefits over iOS, which has a lot more compromises, specially now that Apple is trying to push it as a desktop replacement. For exampe, trackpad / mouse are more ergonomic to navigate UI than iPP / iOS with touch in a vertical position. Multitasking and side by side applications are better in Windows than iOS. Multimonitor and external storage are two other benefits. Long story short, all environments have compromises, but right now, Windows has less compromises than iOS when is used as an "unicorn" OS.
Like you said, for Apple maybe iOS is their future. For MS, still Windows. But what I'm seeing is iOS, an OS designed for mobile devices, being "push" to be a desktop replacement, while Windows is evolving as an OS for that can adapt and be used in desktop, mobile, cloud, HoloLens or IoT.
Apple is not trying to position iPad as a desktop replacement no matter how many tasks the iPad may be able to support that also have versions on the desktop. The whole desktop metaphor is backward looking for the tasks the iPad was designed to serve. When did reading a book or watching a movie or playing a game or drawing on a pad or painting on an easel ever seem like things done in in a desktop environment? The desktop is an industrial design metaphor that's unfortunately leaked over into the human lifestyle space. It needs to be exorcised along with the notion that folders and files grow on trees. Most of the current UX models in desktop operating systems have nothing to do with what's best for users, they're artifacts of the shortcomings of the technology and the fact that their creators knew more about code than people.
Multiple monitors, mice, keyboard requirements, and other such claptrap are desktop industrial machine accommodations that remind us that there's still lots of work to be done to advance current computing platforms to where they need to be. It's unfortunate that some folks are associating the Apple Smart Keyboard with what makes the iPad Pro a "pro." It's not a necessity but an accommodation to address the ergonomic challenges of typing on glass. These things have been in use since iPad 1.
What makes the iPad Pro a "pro?"
Easy answer, Apple's product marketing team. The same ones that put the Pro moniker on MacBooks to make them "pro." Nothing more and nothing less. If they called it iPad Peanut Butter the product would be absolutely no different. It is what it is and buy it based on the merits of the product, not the name.
I'm totally not understanding what the proponents of putting OS X on the iPad are expecting they would get that is not already being provided by the MacBook or MacBook Air.
Just as an example, a small (pocketable) and light (400 to 600 g) Mac tablet would be the ultimate presentation tool for Keynote and PowerPoint previously made in a Mac desktop. Because presentations on Mac are not compatible with iOS. Unless you use very simple presentations. Just try with animations, transitions, video, audio, tables, formatting, backgrounds, special fonts, etc.
better slideshows can and will be implemented in future iOS versions. im sure we'll see some mechanism for custom typefaces. but thats actually a lousy argument for putting OS X on an iPad since playing back a slideshow is a pretty passive use.
Right now, MS unicorn OS, Windows 10, has it's compromises. But still have a lot of benefits over iOS, which has a lot more compromises, specially now that Apple is trying to push it as a desktop replacement. For exampe, trackpad / mouse are more ergonomic to navigate UI than iPP / iOS with touch in a vertical position. Multitasking and side by side applications are better in Windows than iOS. Multimonitor and external storage are two other benefits. Long story short, all environments have compromises, but right now, Windows has less compromises than iOS when is used as an "unicorn" OS.
Like you said, for Apple maybe iOS is their future. For MS, still Windows. But what I'm seeing is iOS, an OS designed for mobile devices, being "push" to be a desktop replacement, while Windows is evolving as an OS for that can adapt and be used in desktop, mobile, cloud, HoloLens or IoT.
Apple is not trying to position iPad as a desktop replacement no matter how many tasks the iPad may be able to support that also have versions on the desktop. The whole desktop metaphor is backward looking for the tasks the iPad was designed to serve. When did reading a book or watching a movie or playing a game or drawing on a pad or painting on an easel ever seem like things done in in a desktop environment? The desktop is an industrial design metaphor that's unfortunately leaked over into the human lifestyle space. It needs to be exorcised along with the notion that folders and files grow on trees. Most of the current UX models in desktop operating systems have nothing to do with what's best for users, they're artifacts of the shortcomings of the technology and the fact that their creators knew more about code than people.
Multiple monitors, mice, keyboard requirements, and other such claptrap are desktop industrial machine accommodations that remind us that there's still lots of work to be done to advance current computing platforms to where they need to be. It's unfortunate that some folks are associating the Apple Smart Keyboard with what makes the iPad Pro a "pro." It's not a necessity but an accommodation to address the ergonomic challenges of typing on glass. These things have been in use since iPad 1.
What makes the iPad Pro a "pro?"
Easy answer, Apple's product marketing team. The same ones that put the Pro moniker on MacBooks to make them "pro." Nothing more and nothing less. If they called it iPad Peanut Butter the product would be absolutely no different. It is what it is and buy it based on the merits of the product, not the name.
Yes, Apple positioned iPad Pro as a PC replacement.
I agree with you that would be nice to have a new environment that replace the desktop. But iPP / iOS is not the best option for many task that are done in desktops.
Apple once again missed on two things here. Price and USB 2. This is 2016. USB 3.1 specification was released July 2013. Why is apple almost 3 years later still screwing around with USB 2? It takes a lifetime to backup my iphones and ipads on USB 2 to my computer. USB 3 is over 10X faster than USB 2. Why would apple do this? The only thing I can think of is a money grab. Maybe they are hoping they can squeeze out at least one more iteration of the ancient USB 2.0 before finally coming to year 2016 with USB 3.x and giving consumers one more reason to upgrade.
As storage has ballooned on ipads and iphones to 128GB and 256GB the absurdity today of running USB 2.0 is off the charts. Sorry but Apple should be a leader here and be offering premium cutting edge interfaces. USB 3.x isn't even cutting edge anymore. It has been out in the wild for a long time and proven. Their ignorance or intention here merely makes me want to look at alternatives more and more.
I have an ipad air 2 and an ipad mini and was hoping to replace the ipad mini but the value proposition simply isn't there for apple right now.
I agree with you that would be nice to have a new environment that replace the desktop.
For many people the iPad already replaces the need for a desktop, for others not. Typing on glass and using a finger for a pointer is never going to be as accurate, ergonomic or as fast as using a desktop with physical keyboard and mouse or even a trackpad. For me this is the main issue. Manipulating lots of text is my main task and an iPad just doesn't cut it. Not because of the OS but mostly because of the limitations of the touch interface and the hardware itself.
Apple once again missed on two things here. Price and USB 2. This is 2016.
Might be an issue of NAND speed.
I think the SK Hynix in the 9.7" is actually a 2014 chip whereas the Toshiba NAND in the 12.9" is 2015-2016 variety which probably can take advantage of the USB3.
I agree with you that would be nice to have a new environment that replace the desktop.
For many people the iPad already replaces the need for a desktop, for others not. Typing on glass and using a finger for a pointer is never going to be as accurate, ergonomic or as fast as using a desktop with physical keyboard and mouse or even a trackpad. For me this is the main issue. Manipulating lots of text is my main task and an iPad just doesn't cut it. Not because of the OS but mostly because of the limitations of the touch interface and the hardware itself.
I agree with you. I don't see something in the near future that can replace a desktop environment.
Apple is not trying to position iPad as a desktop replacement no matter how many tasks the iPad may be able to support that also have versions on the desktop.
Agreed. They're not positioning it as a replacement … for some.
For many people the iPad already replaces the need for a desktop, for others not.
Agreed. The only difference is that the first 2 comments were phrased as absolutist in their response, that's all. I can't speak for them but I suspect they both implied that their comment probably was meant … for some. I also think that's what Schiller meant, since he did add the bit about 600 million PCs that are over 6 years old. That puts them just before the iPad came out. I know many people who bought PCs just for email, browsing, Facebook, photos, music, solitaire, etc. Remember that 6 years ago, all those tasks required a desktop OS running on a PC or laptop for those who had no use for a smartphone nor its diminutive screen. I also know a lot of people who bought iPads for those same tasks after 2010, mostly because they didn't even want to buy a computer out of intimidation even though they were very curious to do those tasks, my mother is a case in point. Apple is positioning the iPad as a PC replacement for those kind of people and many more, but they are not positioning it for a replacement of all PCs or the desktop environment, at least for many years still, if ever. That's why iOS and macOS will remain distinct for the simple reason that it's …
Not because of the OS but mostly because of the limitations of the […] interface and the hardware itself.
I think the replacement trend will continue inexorably and the iPad will gradually replace more tasks currently still done in a desktop environment but never will they replace all applications, they just simply can't and they won't, just like cars will never replace all pickup trucks and it has nothing to do with the dashboard or upholstery. And all the attempts of combining them might survive as a niche but will most likely parallel the El Camino.
Comments
The iPad Pro only came out six months ago and was the first Apple keyboard that required landscape use, so what "yet" are you talking about?
The only downside is I have to buy a new printer that will work with iOS ($100). I think I can do all that for pretty close to the price of the MacBook, which I love.
Best,
Right now, MS unicorn OS, Windows 10, has it's compromises. But still have a lot of benefits over iOS, which has a lot more compromises, specially now that Apple is trying to push it as a desktop replacement. For exampe, trackpad / mouse are more ergonomic to navigate UI than iPP / iOS with touch in a vertical position. Multitasking and side by side applications are better in Windows than iOS. Multimonitor and external storage are two other benefits. Long story short, all environments have compromises, but right now, Windows has less compromises than iOS when is used as an "unicorn" OS.
Like you said, for Apple maybe iOS is their future. For MS, still Windows. But what I'm seeing is iOS, an OS designed for mobile devices, being "push" to be a desktop replacement, while Windows is evolving as an OS for that can adapt and be used in desktop, mobile, cloud, HoloLens or IoT.
Starting price of $599 may be too steep for some. -
That's why the Air2 still exists. I paid $500 for an iPad 2 five years ago. This is a lot more capable, faster, much thinner with a better display and a lot more features. No issue with it starting at $599.
RAM stays at 2 gigabytes, matching iPad Air 2 -
So what? Doesn't seem to hinder performance.
Lightning port is USB 2, only 12.9-inch model has faster USB 3 -
Isn't for me, but acknowledged this might be an issue for some.
Ugh, the camera bump -
Same as on the phone, would rather have the better camera with a bump than an overall thicker device. Don't particularly care about the bump as mine lives in a case.
https://techpinions.com/why-2016-isnt-1997-for-apple/44434
iOS is just a toy, you say?
Steven Sinofsky on tech toys actually being tools:
https://medium.com/learning-by-shipping/is-a-toy-21312a5c8aea#.4its87m3m
Yes, Apple positioned iPad Pro as a PC replacement.
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apples-cook-on-the-ipad-pro-why-would-you-buy-a-pc-anymore/
I agree with you that would be nice to have a new environment that replace the desktop. But iPP / iOS is not the best option for many task that are done in desktops.
As storage has ballooned on ipads and iphones to 128GB and 256GB the absurdity today of running USB 2.0 is off the charts. Sorry but Apple should be a leader here and be offering premium cutting edge interfaces. USB 3.x isn't even cutting edge anymore. It has been out in the wild for a long time and proven. Their ignorance or intention here merely makes me want to look at alternatives more and more.
I have an ipad air 2 and an ipad mini and was hoping to replace the ipad mini but the value proposition simply isn't there for apple right now.
For many people the iPad already replaces the need for a desktop, for others not. Typing on glass and using a finger for a pointer is never going to be as accurate, ergonomic or as fast as using a desktop with physical keyboard and mouse or even a trackpad. For me this is the main issue. Manipulating lots of text is my main task and an iPad just doesn't cut it. Not because of the OS but mostly because of the limitations of the touch interface and the hardware itself.
I think the SK Hynix in the 9.7" is actually a 2014 chip whereas the Toshiba NAND in the 12.9" is 2015-2016 variety which probably can take advantage of the USB3.
I agree with you. I don't see something in the near future that can replace a desktop environment.
Agreed. They're not positioning it as a replacement … for some.
Agreed. They are positioning it as a replacement … for some.
Agreed. The only difference is that the first 2 comments were phrased as absolutist in their response, that's all. I can't speak for them but I suspect they both implied that their comment probably was meant … for some. I also think that's what Schiller meant, since he did add the bit about 600 million PCs that are over 6 years old. That puts them just before the iPad came out. I know many people who bought PCs just for email, browsing, Facebook, photos, music, solitaire, etc. Remember that 6 years ago, all those tasks required a desktop OS running on a PC or laptop for those who had no use for a smartphone nor its diminutive screen. I also know a lot of people who bought iPads for those same tasks after 2010, mostly because they didn't even want to buy a computer out of intimidation even though they were very curious to do those tasks, my mother is a case in point. Apple is positioning the iPad as a PC replacement for those kind of people and many more, but they are not positioning it for a replacement of all PCs or the desktop environment, at least for many years still, if ever. That's why iOS and macOS will remain distinct for the simple reason that it's …
I think the replacement trend will continue inexorably and the iPad will gradually replace more tasks currently still done in a desktop environment but never will they replace all applications, they just simply can't and they won't, just like cars will never replace all pickup trucks and it has nothing to do with the dashboard or upholstery. And all the attempts of combining them might survive as a niche but will most likely parallel the El Camino.