It would be wonderful if we could bring that level of manufacturing back into the US. To do that, politicians would need to make it worth it for companies to onshore. Right now it is not economically feasible in a world economy and if you also want to raise minimum wage to $15, that basically means robotic manufacturing. The sad truth is that China has the available workforce to do this for far less.
how about you allow companies to repatriate international money tax-free for products with a certain amount of US manufacturing? The more you repatriate manufacturing, the less you pay to repatriate. Pretty fair deal.
Seriously guy, you b**** about the highest U.S. taxpayer taking jobs overseas? Should Apple get f***** twice and STILL get hate from their own country and lose favor to a Korean counterfeit company? Why wouldn't China deserve these jobs?
I'm really starting to agree that Apple buy their own country.
... "But I do wish they'd be manufacturing some of their devices, here, in the United States rather than in China. ..."
Careful what you wish for, Bernie. Apple just might move the bulk of their manufacturing to the US. But it will be done mostly with robots. Few net job gains here.
First step: develop a robot that is fast and precise enough to disassemble iPhones for recycling. Next step: program the robots to assemble iPhones here in the US. Last step: build or buy enough of those robots to replace Foxconn.
It's the matter of China controlling and owning all the rare Earth minerals. Yes, Apple can start making iPhones here, but the iPhone will cost 10X because China would have to sell the minerals to US, export them and tax the hell out of that. It's not like Apple or any company did this whole thing on purpose, those countries did, and they're pretty smart.
Bernie Sander's opinion is pretty much idiotic when his solution is to increase corporate tax rates to 50%. You want to see companies keep their money over seas... vote Bernie because nobody will ever want to bring their money home with his tax plans to screw over businesses.
Get rid of Free Trade Agreements and tax imports and they will have no choice but to bring the money home.
With that said, while I admire Bernie, the problem is really with the government. The government's job is to pass laws. If governments don't like a practice, pass a law to change it.
Apple has had its tax practices in place for twenty years. While it is clear the practice is to avoid paying taxes, it isn't illegal.
Who are you to decide what is fair and why, though?
A fair share is just that. For example personal income might be taxed at 15% for everybody, that is a fair share as each and everyone pays the same percentage of their income to the tax man. Once you start to add arbitrary tax brackets the system becomes unfair. when I say everybody I mean everybody pays the same tax rate be you the local high school janitor or the head of Apple.
The same thing goes for business tax them all at the same rate and make sure all of them pay taxes at that rate. Get rid of all of the exceptions, special cases and the non sense congress spend months building into the tax laws each year.
It isn't a question of deciding what is fair that is already known if you have had any sort of reasonable upbringing. Consider a birthday cake, do you cut the slices in reasonably closely sized cubes or do you vary the size of the slices to make sure your friends get the bigger pieces? Most people would consider making the slices the same size fair, anything else is biased.
Tax brackets are not necessary unfair. Further, they have been in place almost since the founding of the tax code.
A fact of the matter is people with higher income have better deductions, have means to keep their money in places with little to no tax, and have benefited from the system more.
15 percent to somebody who makes twenty thousand a year is far more painful then to somebody who makes a hundred thousand a year.
When I cut a cake, I cut the cake based on the person I am cutting it for. For myself, I cut the smallest piece [assuming there isn't enough to go around]. Biases are not inherently bad.
Bernie Sander's opinion is pretty much idiotic when his solution is to increase corporate tax rates to 50%. You want to see companies keep their money over seas... vote Bernie because nobody will ever want to bring their money home with his tax plans to screw over businesses.
Sanders certainly is a problem child. It is almost as if he is living in a fantasy land.
The problem is, while I like many of Trumps points it is things like this that have me equally concerned about who to vote for when the time comes. This is one of the few election cycles where none of the above seems to be the only rational choice.
I sometimes wonder if Trumps way off base comments come from years negotiating business deals where you might offer up an outlandish proposal and the beginning knowing full well that the final deal will be more equitable when finalized. The thing here is both Sanders and Trump are right in that Apple needs a little social pressure to find better places to do business. That doesn't even mean come to the USA, it simply means select business partners where the government is a bit more respectful of their citizens.
Bernie isn't a problem child [he is just wrong when it comes to Apple], but you stake the nail on the head when you say companies should be pressured to do business in places similar to the US. Otherwise, competition is not fair. The US can't compete on equal footing with China because China has different views towards how people should be treated.
Tariffs were meant to level the playing field. It is OK if you manufacture in China, but because doing so gives you an unfair advantage over American or European countries, you have to pay a tariff. NAFTA was one of the word things to ever happen to this Country.
Firstly, the 27" iMac was made in the US last I checked.
Secondly, he's a communist, what do you expect?
And before some hippies come in spewing that "he's a democratic socialist" crap, Lenin and Stalin claimed the same thing in their early days.
Wrong on every single point.
Not saying I agree with Bernie on this. And the issues of supply chain and taxes are two completely different issues, neither of which are Apple's responsibility to fix.
"And I do wish that they would not be trying to avoid paying their fair share of taxes."
Apple does try to pay its fair share. and nothing more. And that's what's expected of them and anyone else.
Is that petition the White House thing still open? I'd like to see the term "fair share" banned permanently. There is what is dictated by law, and it stops there.
On the other side of the aisle -- miles away from the middle -- Trump offered his own take on the current state of high-tech, albeit in a more forthright manner than Sanders.
Trump and Bernie are far from opposites. Both are populists- i.e. people who will say whatever their supports think even if they know it is false or impractical (surely after a career this long Bernie understands that ripping up trade agreements and starting trade wars left, right, and centre won't bring prosperity). Both offer voters simple "common sense" solutions to complex programs that have long defied such an approach. And both are more than willing to promise what they cannot deliver- the president cannot dictate the budget or any other laws.
The difference is Bernie has been saying these things for years. He voted against the Trade Agreements when everybody else voted for them. Tearing up NAFTA would be a huge benefit to most americans.
The US is the biggest market in the world. People want to do business here. Get rid of NAFTA and it will force companies to come back to the US. Workers will have money to pay taxes. Taxes will fund roads, schools, etc. The eighties were one of the best economic times ever seen in history. NAFTA passed, and everything fell apart. Now a whole lot of US dollars leave the Country.
Further, no matter who is elected they will not get much done. In case you haven't notice, Congress doesn't pass many laws these days. At least with Bernie or Trump they are saying what many people want them to say. Dream big.
Many times people vote based on the candidate's personal charisma and not so much on their policies. To a certain extent this is why Obama won twice by such large margins. He is articulate, intelligent and has Impecable moral and family values. Some may find fault with my assessment of Obama, but Trump has none of that.
Have you noticed how he often repeats himself in the same sentence? He might say something like "believe me the Mexicans are going to pay for the wall, the Mexicans are paying for the wall, believe me." Or "I have the best words, I have really good words, really good words, what I said was perfect." Although he appears to have a much higher opinion of himself, than ordinary Americans do of him, this repeating speech mannerism indicates to me that he is actually someone who is emotionally very insecure.
The Mac and the iOS stuff will not come back. If it does, however, it will be built by robots, like Liam, that can disassemble an iPhone in 12 seconds-- so it can build one. 100 sophistated robots working at machine speeds, this is enough to make all but the largest-selling models.
Factories have been automated for 100 years. Still need people.
Only a very few highly educated, highly skilled, highly paid “people” would be needed. The average Joe Sixpack who worked on an assembly line or in a textile mill will not find employment in these new factories. Joe Sixpack is simply not needed anymore but he’s the one Bernie is trying to convince that Democratic Socialism is the way to go. Democratic Socialism will give Joe Sixpack just enough to get by and no more. Joe Sixpack will be forever locked into a meager existence and totally dependent.
Sanders is fracking a copy of Trump without the racism. No information, no solution, no knowledge; near constant whining followed with "miracle" solutions that have been discredited 50-100 years ago.
He's making me beyond mad; he thinks he's different, but he's not. He's a walking rehash.
He'd even be discredited by European socialist for being a dogmatic fool.
Who are you to decide what is fair and why, though?
A fair share is just that. For example personal income might be taxed at 15% for everybody, that is a fair share as each and everyone pays the same percentage of their income to the tax man. Once you start to add arbitrary tax brackets the system becomes unfair. when I say everybody I mean everybody pays the same tax rate be you the local high school janitor or the head of Apple.
The same thing goes for business tax them all at the same rate and make sure all of them pay taxes at that rate. Get rid of all of the exceptions, special cases and the non sense congress spend months building into the tax laws each year.
It isn't a question of deciding what is fair that is already known if you have had any sort of reasonable upbringing. Consider a birthday cake, do you cut the slices in reasonably closely sized cubes or do you vary the size of the slices to make sure your friends get the bigger pieces? Most people would consider making the slices the same size fair, anything else is biased.
Taxes in the US are ridiculously low on the top earners; but Sanders won't get anythign passed by enraging just about every member of his own party (and the other party to). He seems to have no knowledge of how laws are passed in the US at all.
BTW, the interview he gave in the daily news, a left leaning paper, was beyond embarrassing; he knows NOTHING about banking, except BANKS=BAD. Total ignorance of a subject he is supposedly passionate about.
Trump and Bernie are far from opposites. Both are populists- i.e. people who will say whatever their supports think even if they know it is false or impractical (surely after a career this long Bernie understands that ripping up trade agreements and starting trade wars left, right, and centre won't bring prosperity). Both offer voters simple "common sense" solutions to complex programs that have long defied such an approach. And both are more than willing to promise what they cannot deliver- the president cannot dictate the budget or any other laws.
The difference is Bernie has been saying these things for years. He voted against the Trade Agreements when everybody else voted for them. Tearing up NAFTA would be a huge benefit to most americans.
The US is the biggest market in the world. People want to do business here. Get rid of NAFTA and it will force companies to come back to the US. Workers will have money to pay taxes. Taxes will fund roads, schools, etc. The eighties were one of the best economic times ever seen in history. NAFTA passed, and everything fell apart. Now a whole lot of US dollars leave the Country.
Further, no matter who is elected they will not get much done. In case you haven't notice, Congress doesn't pass many laws these days. At least with Bernie or Trump they are saying what many people want them to say. Dream big.
All I hear is blah blah blah blah, protectionism is good, blah blah blah. Bernie boy and you are living in the 1950s, the word doesn't work the way you want it anymore. Bernie boy and Trump think EXACTLY alike and are peddling the same BS.
First year I won't be voting since I was eligible to vote.
Note sure which is worse for America: 1. A Trump Presidency 2. A Sanders Presidency 3. Registered Voters who refuse to vote.
On second thought, I do know. The worst is (3).
"We The People," either by endless party-line voting (by people who never think outside the box) or by voter apathy, put our present government into place. "We The People" elected Carter (Democrat), then Reagan (Republican), then Bush (Republican), then Clinton (Democrat), then Bush (Republican), then Obama (Democrat). We can complain all day about "elected" officials, but the fact remains that "We The People" put them there. Americans perpetually flip-flop between the same two parties and forever complain about their leaders. And not a single American has stood up and said, "No more of this!" Americans, therefore, are their own demise.
Patrick Henry once said, "Give me Liberty or give me death." In the past, America was time and time again praised for its Freedom. People from all over the world have sought to immigrate LEGALLY to America because of FREEDOM. We even have a Statue in NY harbor that annouces Liberty to the world. And yet, through the years "We The People" have grown fat, soft and complacent, demanding Big Government heal all manner social ills. Even "conservatives" complain about such yet use Big Government to fight endless wars overseas, police the planet, and boycott home-grown American firms like Apple, even condemning them for "not paying their fair share" even though Apple pays all the taxes due in countries in which they operate. They build up Big Brother so that when control falls to the Democrats, they continue to us Big Brother to promote their Progressive aims. And regardless of Republicans and Democrats, "We The People" demand Apple ignore the costs and bring all its manufacturing back home, ignoring the extreme costs of doing so. "Make it for $100 here at home, Apple, but don't you dare sell it for too much more than that!" And through it all, government continues to grow and individual liberty is slowly but surely etched away.
If Patrick Henry were alive today, he would choose death.
Americans, change doesn't start with a Donald Trump or a Bernie Sanders. Change and a return to FREEDOM starts with you. "There out to be a law" should be a phrase we flush down the toilet. We must jettison our personal likes for the sake of Liberty. We need to elect people who go into office not necessarily to make new laws, but to push a reset button and eliminate most of what we already have. Freedom for all must be our motto. In the end, nothing else matters.
It would be wonderful if we could bring that level of manufacturing back into the US. To do that, politicians would need to make it worth it for companies to onshore. Right now it is not economically feasible in a world economy and if you also want to raise minimum wage to $15, that basically means robotic manufacturing. The sad truth is that China has the available workforce to do this for far less.
how about you allow companies to repatriate international money tax-free for products with a certain amount of US manufacturing? The more you repatriate manufacturing, the less you pay to repatriate. Pretty fair deal.
Why on earth do you think manufacturing would be better here? You do know that what your talking about s heavily subsidizing shit jobs so the US can export cheap crap abroad (what China and Asian countries do now). Result, low wages, high prices and eventually high taxes to pay for this. You also basically lock down people in dead end jobs instead of being recycled naturally through the free market to high skilled jobs.
This is all bad.
Best thing is higher taxes (back to 1992 levels) on the higher earner and a massive investment in education and science.
Bernie's "solution" is an economic catastrophe waiting to happen. What has made the US strong is not hanging on to the past.
If the GOP had not done tickle down for 30 years, the US would have more money already invested in this transition.
Comments
how about you allow companies to repatriate international money tax-free for products with a certain amount of US manufacturing? The more you repatriate manufacturing, the less you pay to repatriate. Pretty fair deal.
dumb or dumber?
Beavis or Butthead?
Seriously guy, you b**** about the highest U.S. taxpayer taking jobs overseas? Should Apple get f***** twice and STILL get hate from their own country and lose favor to a Korean counterfeit company?
Why wouldn't China deserve these jobs?
I'm really starting to agree that Apple buy their own country.
Apple just might move the bulk of their manufacturing to the US.
But it will be done mostly with robots. Few net job gains here.
First step: develop a robot that is fast and precise enough to disassemble iPhones for recycling.
Next step: program the robots to assemble iPhones here in the US.
Last step: build or buy enough of those robots to replace Foxconn.
The first step is already done:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/21/apple-teases-liam-iphone-recycling-robot-as-part-of-environmental-initiative
Get rid of Free Trade Agreements and tax imports and they will have no choice but to bring the money home.
With that said, while I admire Bernie, the problem is really with the government. The government's job is to pass laws. If governments don't like a practice, pass a law to change it.
Apple has had its tax practices in place for twenty years. While it is clear the practice is to avoid paying taxes, it isn't illegal.
Tax brackets are not necessary unfair. Further, they have been in place almost since the founding of the tax code.
A fact of the matter is people with higher income have better deductions, have means to keep their money in places with little to no tax, and have benefited from the system more.
15 percent to somebody who makes twenty thousand a year is far more painful then to somebody who makes a hundred thousand a year.
When I cut a cake, I cut the cake based on the person I am cutting it for. For myself, I cut the smallest piece [assuming there isn't enough to go around]. Biases are not inherently bad.
Bernie isn't a problem child [he is just wrong when it comes to Apple], but you stake the nail on the head when you say companies should be pressured to do business in places similar to the US. Otherwise, competition is not fair. The US can't compete on equal footing with China because China has different views towards how people should be treated.
Tariffs were meant to level the playing field. It is OK if you manufacture in China, but because doing so gives you an unfair advantage over American or European countries, you have to pay a tariff. NAFTA was one of the word things to ever happen to this Country.
The difference is Bernie has been saying these things for years. He voted against the Trade Agreements when everybody else voted for them. Tearing up NAFTA would be a huge benefit to most americans.
The US is the biggest market in the world. People want to do business here. Get rid of NAFTA and it will force companies to come back to the US. Workers will have money to pay taxes. Taxes will fund roads, schools, etc. The eighties were one of the best economic times ever seen in history. NAFTA passed, and everything fell apart. Now a whole lot of US dollars leave the Country.
Further, no matter who is elected they will not get much done. In case you haven't notice, Congress doesn't pass many laws these days. At least with Bernie or Trump they are saying what many people want them to say. Dream big.
Have you noticed how he often repeats himself in the same sentence? He might say something like "believe me the Mexicans are going to pay for the wall, the Mexicans are paying for the wall, believe me." Or "I have the best words, I have really good words, really good words, what I said was perfect." Although he appears to have a much higher opinion of himself, than ordinary Americans do of him, this repeating speech mannerism indicates to me that he is actually someone who is emotionally very insecure.
No information, no solution, no knowledge; near constant whining followed with "miracle" solutions that have been discredited 50-100 years ago.
He's making me beyond mad; he thinks he's different, but he's not.
He's a walking rehash.
He'd even be discredited by European socialist for being a dogmatic fool.
Taxes in the US are ridiculously low on the top earners; but Sanders won't get anythign passed by enraging just about every member of his own party (and the other party to).
He seems to have no knowledge of how laws are passed in the US at all.
BTW, the interview he gave in the daily news, a left leaning paper, was beyond embarrassing; he knows NOTHING about banking, except BANKS=BAD.
Total ignorance of a subject he is supposedly passionate about.
Bernie boy and Trump think EXACTLY alike and are peddling the same BS.
1. A Trump Presidency
2. A Sanders Presidency
3. Registered Voters who refuse to vote.
On second thought, I do know. The worst is (3).
Why on earth do you think manufacturing would be better here?
You do know that what your talking about s heavily subsidizing shit jobs so the US can export cheap crap abroad (what China and Asian countries do now).
Result, low wages, high prices and eventually high taxes to pay for this.
You also basically lock down people in dead end jobs instead of being recycled naturally through the free market to high skilled jobs.
This is all bad.
Best thing is higher taxes (back to 1992 levels) on the higher earner and a massive investment in education and science.
Bernie's "solution" is an economic catastrophe waiting to happen.
What has made the US strong is not hanging on to the past.
If the GOP had not done tickle down for 30 years, the US would have more money already invested in this transition.