Apple won't sacrifice profit margins to make iPhone SE affordable in India

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in iPhone
When it launches in India on April 8, the iPhone SE will still command a 36 percent price premium there versus the U.S. -- likely keeping the device out of reach of most Indians, a report noted on Wednesday.




After taxes, a 16-gigabyte SE will cost 39,000 rupees ($586) in India, compared with about $430 in most places in the U.S., said the Wall Street Journal. Apple imposed a nearly identical margin on the iPhone 5s when it launched in India in 2013.

The margin on a 16-gigabyte iPhone 6s is closer to 30 percent, but at 62,000 rupees ($930), the device is even less affordable. The same model is priced a little over $700 in the U.S. post-taxes.

Apple holds under 2 percent of the Indian smartphone market, in no small part because four-fifths of phones sold in the country are priced under $150. Until February of this year, the iPhone 5c and even the iPhone 4S were still on sale in the region in an attempt to offer something reasonably price-competitive.

The company is seeking approval to import used iPhones for sale, but the motion is being opposed by leading forces in the Indian smartphone industry, including Intex, Micromax, and Samsung. The main concern is that Apple and other firms could simply flood the local market with cheap used imports.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    I never thought this phone was for India. I always thought this phone was for holdouts in western markets that didn't get a 6 or 6S because of the size. Off course the $399 price point was a bit of a surprise but if Apple is planning to sell it for almost $600 in India it will be a non-starter there. Unless they're also planning to continue selling the iPhone 5S there as well?
  • Reply 2 of 25
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    I never thought this phone was for India. I always thought this phone was for holdouts in western markets that didn't get a 6 or 6S because of the size. Off course the $399 price point was a bit of a surprise but if Apple is planning to sell it for almost $600 in India it will be a non-starter there. Unless they're also planning to continue selling the iPhone 5S there as well?
    They can't contol the taxes on imports. 
  • Reply 3 of 25
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    Other articles have pointed out India's very high import duties so it doesn't surprise me the final price is close to $600. India is trying to protect whatever mobile device manufacturers it has (none?) while still contracting with various computer vendors for call centers. Apple doesn't have to sell to everyone in every country. 

    As for selling used iPhones, I see no problem with that. I assume India is heavy into reuse and recycle, maybe not officially but I bet a lot of the people get whatever they can afford, so why not allow perfectly usable used iPhones. It's done in the US and it's not really affecting the new phone market. 
    Chris46
  • Reply 4 of 25
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Good! Apple should never lower themselves to playing around in the mud with all of the other el cheapo Android phone makers, selling phones that costs the same as the price of one meal. Selling devices at a loss or with little or no profit margins is how many Android phone makers operate, but that shit aint gonna fly here. 

    The iPhone SE surprised everybody, coming in at $400. That is an insanely great price for a very powerful phone.

    I was looking at a chart earlier, from an iPhone SE review, where it was tested against a variety of phones, and damn, then iPhone SE is even blowing out many huge Android Phablet phones, which are weak and a total joke. And lets not even mention the battery life of the SE! It's killer, and blows most other phones away, including much larger phones which have larger batteries.

    $400 is a great price for the SE. If it happens to cost a little more than that in certain countries, well that's the fault of those countries, with their gangster import rates, tariffs and taxes. 

    If somebody can afford an SE, great! If somebody can't, well then that's just too damn bad. Go buy something else. We can't always get what we want, now can we?




     



    edited April 2016 palladium
  • Reply 5 of 25
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,286member
    There's no point in selling in India if you can't make money. Let the bottom feeders worry about how much money they're willing to lose.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,404member
    People said similar things when Apple was eyeing China. There is no reason that Apple should start to do something in India that they have not done anywhere.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    Oh the humanity of it, the poor people in India can not afford to buy a new iphone. If india was so worry about what the population can afford they would be do everything they could to help people make more like China is doing.

    Instead they let US companies come in and set up shop and hire people there at 20% of what they would have gotten paid in the US. Everyone in the US should stop worrying about whether people in India can afford a new Iphone when companies are sending US tech jobs to India because their workers are willing to work for less than 1/2 of what we get paid here for the same job.

    This is not like factory work where no one in the US want to work in a factory for $10/hr they all want to be a CEO. These are jobs which people in the US get paid $50K to $100K but in India they can hire 4 times as many people to do that same same thing, the interesting part they do not get it done 4 times as fast they slower but cheaper.

    Done with Rant,

    As it was pointed out the 5SE was not for India it is for the 60% of iphone users who did not want to upgrade to a bigger phone. Apple plans to sell used phones in India since they only care how cheap something is not whether it the best product they can own.

  • Reply 8 of 25
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,728member
    If Apple ever were to offer lower prices in such situation all that would happen is a black market would start reselling them at higher prices elsewhere.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    dps098dps098 Posts: 11member
    genovelle said:
    I never thought this phone was for India. I always thought this phone was for holdouts in western markets that didn't get a 6 or 6S because of the size. Off course the $399 price point was a bit of a surprise but if Apple is planning to sell it for almost $600 in India it will be a non-starter there. Unless they're also planning to continue selling the iPhone 5S there as well?
    They can't contol the taxes on imports. 
    Exactly.  It would be appropriate to find out how much of this is import duty, and V.A.T. (taxes) included in the price vs. the base price free of taxes for a true Apples to Apples comparison.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    sreesree Posts: 152member
    @rob53 - well considering that India is the largest and fastest growing smartphone market in the world, i think it is fair that they expect companies to make the phones in india (indian or non-indian companies). That is what xaomi, micromax, nokia and samsung have done to various degrees to lower the costs of their handsets. There are a lot of people in india who need jobs. It does tend to be more important than cheap iphones.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    sreesree Posts: 152member
    @maestro64 - Oh you great software coder gods from america, how shall we ever be able to code like you!!! Will praying to statues of steve jobs help us become oh so smart as thou? Oh my god, i am so blinded by the awesomeness of these american coders! it is just unbelievable the radiating brilliance of their coding skills. They are so fast at it, their keyboards must be made of titanium to sustain the speed!! Let me guess, they are also white-skinned??




    asdasdcnocbuisingularity
  • Reply 12 of 25
    sreesree Posts: 152member
    @mike1 - So, it is okay if they don't make money selling iphone 5se in the US? but they shouldn't do the same in india?

    The point here is they don't really care about india. they are currently just trying to get some low hanging fruit with gimmicks like selling older models. if they need to compete in india, they need to manufacture (or atleast assemble) in india. They need to get their software services like maps usable here. Then they need to price their handsets similar to what it is priced in the US.
  • Reply 13 of 25
    roakeroake Posts: 811member
    Apple is not in business to lose money.  There are several different approaches to this issue being taken here on this forum, but it all boils down to that: they are not in business to lose money.

    It's not about philanthropy, destratification of social classes, individual income, or even wages.

    It's about profit.

    And Apple is winning.
  • Reply 14 of 25
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    sree said:


    The point here is they don't really care about india. they are currently just trying to get some low hanging fruit with gimmicks like selling older models. if they need to compete in india, they need to manufacture (or atleast assemble) in india. They need to get their software services like maps usable here. Then they need to price their handsets similar to what it is priced in the US.
    "They" don't need to do anything.

    It would be better for Apple to pull completely out of India, before they would ever give in to any of your demands.

    And no, Apple doesn't need to price it similar to what it is in the US, as the costs of iPhones vary all around the world. Different countries have different taxes, fees and import tariffs. If you don't like the price, blame your country. 
    edited April 2016 palladium
  • Reply 15 of 25
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    Hehe, I just came here to see how people are gonna pity Indians for not being to afford phones which sell for like a third more than the US price. Yeah blame the country or whatever, but you gonna admit the prices are always cheaper in the US than in ANY country. Even China doesnt have it as cheap, and guess what, the phones are assembled right there. 


    Anyone gonna talk about import duties into the same country eh?


  • Reply 16 of 25
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    So the 5s was selling for $375, and the 4s was selling for $175. The article didn't specify, but I would assume the 5c was selling for $275? So now Apple launches the SE for $586, which is closer to what the 5s was selling for prior to the price drop. The Apple India website does not list the 5s, only the SE -- so it appears to no longer be available unless it is sold exclusively in stores, or 3rd party retailers. 

    However, I think looking at the historical pricing of the 4s, 5c & 5s in India sheds some light on what Apple may plan to do with the SE. Starting at $586 in India, by the time the SE reaches 4s status, the price will have dropped to around $175 again, and that's assuming they don't cut the price in half early like they already did for the 5s.

    Likewise, Apple has a lot of room to drop the SE price as it depreciates along with the 6s. If they maintain the current $250 difference with the 6s, we can expect the SE to drop to $299, then $199 in the US, making it the most affordable iPhone ever sold in the US. 

     It is puzzling that Apple has seemingly eliminated the the lowest budget phones they were selling, but then again, perhaps they were counting on selling used phones which they're being prevented from doing currently.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 17 of 25
    Ah, India. Rampant ingrained corruption, endless red tape, child undernourishment, caste discrimination, no proper toilets etc is A-OK, but a company that thrives or fails in a free market by charging a product by what it likes is a heinous crime against humanity worthy for a hearing at the International Criminal Court.

    What a bunch of entitled whiners who keeps playing the "we're so poor and pathetic" card because they just want luxury goods and not pay the price for it.

    The ultimate irony is the well to do Indians like their Chinese cousins bordering at the north LOVE flaunting their status symbols and iPhones will sell well because of it.

    sree said:
    @rob53 - well considering that India is the largest and fastest growing smartphone market in the world, i think it is fair that they expect companies to make the phones in india (indian or non-indian companies). That is what xaomi, micromax, nokia and samsung have done to various degrees to lower the costs of their handsets. There are a lot of people in india who need jobs. It does tend to be more important than cheap iphones.
    Apple doesn't give a crap about your "huge growing market" if they can't make any money out of it, they shouldn't give a crap about your jobs either and thanks for proving my point.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 18 of 25
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    palladium said:
    Ah, India. Rampant ingrained corruption, endless red tape, child undernourishment, caste discrimination, no proper toilets etc is A-OK, but a company that thrives or fails in a free market by charging a product by what it likes is a heinous crime against humanity worthy for a hearing at the International Criminal Court.

    What a bunch of entitled whiners who keeps playing the "we're so poor and pathetic" card because they just want luxury goods and not pay the price for it.
    Welcome to a developing world. Your own country may have been in a similar or worse situation some time ago. 
    And frankly, no one in India cares about taking Apple to court, or is that angry, yada yada. Imagination much?

    And yea, no one here is asking Apple to make the prices less than what they usually sell for. You wont like buying an iPhone which sells for 30% more than somewhere else will you? When you have a ton of decent options at a fourth of the price?

    Indians dont need your pity or bullshit attitude. We are doing pretty well for a country from which the bulk of smartasses run away to USA to serve them.

    In case you need a real topic of debate, check the PPP of India and yours and maybe you will realise why buying an iPhone is a tougher deal here. BTW many consumer goods are much cheaper here and the currency is worth well for LOCAL stuff. All this globalization shit and currency games have made the Indian Rupee worse compared to the USD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
  • Reply 19 of 25
    lukeilukei Posts: 379member
    Wspacerays said:
    Hehe, I just came here to see how people are gonna pity Indians for not being to afford phones which sell for like a third more than the US price. Yeah blame the country or whatever, but you gonna admit the prices are always cheaper in the US than in ANY country. Even China doesnt have it as cheap, and guess what, the phones are assembled right there. 


    Anyone gonna talk about import duties into the same country eh?


    well yes because unless Apple has an internal sales license they can't sell directly in China but have to export goods first then reimport. And don't just say 'they must have an internal sales license' because it isn't as easy as you may think
  • Reply 20 of 25
    spacerays said:
    palladium said:
    Ah, India. Rampant ingrained corruption, endless red tape, child undernourishment, caste discrimination, no proper toilets etc is A-OK, but a company that thrives or fails in a free market by charging a product by what it likes is a heinous crime against humanity worthy for a hearing at the International Criminal Court.

    What a bunch of entitled whiners who keeps playing the "we're so poor and pathetic" card because they just want luxury goods and not pay the price for it.
    Welcome to a developing world. Your own country may have been in a similar or worse situation some time ago. 
    And frankly, no one in India cares about taking Apple to court, or is that angry, yada yada. Imagination much?

    And yea, no one here is asking Apple to make the prices less than what they usually sell for. You wont like buying an iPhone which sells for 30% more than somewhere else will you? When you have a ton of decent options at a fourth of the price?

    Indians dont need your pity or bullshit attitude. We are doing pretty well for a country from which the bulk of smartasses run away to USA to serve them.

    In case you need a real topic of debate, check the PPP of India and yours and maybe you will realise why buying an iPhone is a tougher deal here. BTW many consumer goods are much cheaper here and the currency is worth well for LOCAL stuff. All this globalization shit and currency games have made the Indian Rupee worse compared to the USD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    I'm so sorry so many Indians can't afford to buy their life-saving, hunger eradicating iPhones because Apple has no obligation outside of making a profit for themselves. Welcome to capitalism.
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