Apple might be banned from Macworld SF

imacfp · October 19, 2002 9:51PM

I just found this on MacCentral. What the heck is going on? Apparently IDG feels that if Apple won't go to the Boston Macworld than they shouldn't go to any.

<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/19.macworld.php"; target="_blank">http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/19.macworld.php</a>;

serrano · October 19, 2002 10:07PM

lol

cosmo · October 19, 2002 11:14PM

How many fewer people will attend MWSF if apple isn't there? 5 000? 10 000? 20 000?

and how much less money will IDG make because of this...

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Cosmo ]

eugene · October 19, 2002 11:30PM

I wouldn't go. I've gone 5 years in a row, and its been going downhill every year too.

rok · October 19, 2002 11:49PM

thank god i can finally log back in again...

anyway, saw this on the wire and had to say that greco is apoplectic with rage at steve and company for not only backing out of macworld, but doing it publicly, without warning, right after idg, greco and boston threw a big shindig touting its return. and all the while, if greco is to be believed (which, hell, why not... ), apple whipped it out and pissed on everybody's party. and again, it seems that apple made no indication that they would pull such a stunt until AFTER the deal was done.

if all that is true, hell, it's idg's show. let 'em say screw it to apple. maybe the show will go down the tubes, maybe not. it's their show, so good luck to 'em. but apple could have handled this much better, it seems. but steve needs his beauty sleep instead of coast-to-coast on his gulfstream V.

what we have here, folks, is what you might call a "mexican standoff." who's gonna flinch first???

rok · October 19, 2002 11:51PM

hey eugene, that puts you at macworld 97-ish, right? at the hieght of the clone wars (powercomputing, motorola, etc.) i heard some of those shows were great. wish i could've been there.

mrmister · October 20, 2002 1:28AM

I agree--it has been going downhill for years, so this doesn't encourage me to return.

anamelie · October 20, 2002 1:43AM

Maybe this is some kind of screwy publicity stunt. It just seems to be pissing a lot of people off. I dont know what apple thinks that they are doing but from where I am sitting it doesnt seem like a good idea. If I was apple I would clear this thing up as quick as possible and give everyone free "just kidding" tee shirts.....

telomar · October 20, 2002 1:43AM

All this is negotiating ploys. I really wouldn't think a great deal of it.

I really need a shrugging smiley.

eugene · October 20, 2002 3:19AM

[quote]Originally posted by rok:

hey eugene, that puts you at macworld 97-ish, right? at the hieght of the clone wars (powercomputing, motorola, etc.) i heard some of those shows were great. wish i could've been there.<hr></blockquote>

'97 was pretty good, though the clone makers really didn't try to shake anything up at the expo.

I don't remember much from '98...

'99 was great, even though I gagged a bit at the smurf towers. It was also one of the biggest shows ever. Bungie was there in full force showing off Myth II. The gaming area wasn't crap, like in 2001 and 2002...

'00 was pretty good too...first glimpse of Aqua. I got my Handspring Visor there. There were plenty of exhibitors. The north and south halls were still packed.

'01 was basically all about the Apple booth and nothing else. The gaming area was all but non-existent, and quite a few exhibitors had bailed...leaving lots of floorspace.

'02 was more of the same...I basicaly went just to see the new iMac and other parts of the Apple booth.

drewprops · October 20, 2002 6:59AM

I wonder how financially involved Apple has been with the Macworld conventions. There may be a behind-the-scenes contractual component that is driving this public battle.

Regardless of whether Apple "pulls out" or IDG "bans" them, the public expectation of new product announcements every six months will have been removed.

BUT, the bully pulpit of the keynote speech will have also been removed. What will Apple do for future product announcements then? Will they put together one of those pathetically forced events like Microsoft instead of playing to a willing, stalwart audience? The intimacy of Steve's keynotes are currently a hallmark of the company, and undeniably their strongest tool for interfacing with the Media.

It seems a rather foolhardy course Apple has staked out in making this a public battle. It's bad press for Apple. Nobody really knows much about IDG, they're publishers for goodness sake....all eyes will go to Apple Computer and sense it as a sign of trouble....somehow, even if that's nowhere near the mark.

Anyway....at least we have SOMETHING new to talk about from Apple!

D

jpf · October 20, 2002 9:43AM

This is interesting stuff. I wonder if Apple could pull off their own "Apple Expo"?

I mean, they have their own QuickTime Live Developers conference, their own Developers conference. They "Could" pull off their own sponsored event...

Boy, that would piss off IDG. I bet this is what is going to happen. Apple will introduce their own "Apple Expos" at San Fran, NY and perhaps smaller sized events around the country. Every quarter and then some! San Fran, NY, Paris, Tokoyo, London, Chicago, Atlanta, San Diego, Phoenix, Dallas!

Apple would make a profit from these conferences too....

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: JPF ]

rok · October 20, 2002 9:56AM

[quote]Originally posted by JPF:

This is interesting stuff. I wonder if Apple could pull off their own "Apple Expo"?

I mean, they have their own QuickTime Live Developers conference, their own Developers conference. They "Could" pull off their own sponsored event...

Boy, that would piss off IDG. I bet this is what is going to happen. Apple will introduce their own "Apple Expos" at San Fran, NY and perhaps smaller sized events around the country. Every quarter and then some! San Fran, NY, Paris, Tokoyo, London, Chicago, Atlanta, San Diego, Phoenix, Dallas!

Apple would make a profit from these conferences too....

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: JPF ]<hr></blockquote>

i almost agree, except that someone on another thread made a very good point: the apple stores already take care of the lion's share of what apple likes to accomplish with it's expos. they can show off new hardware/software, everyone can see the speeches, and soon one will be located almost everywhere (or one would hope, anyway).

so they could try a "invitation to your local apple store for a special event" type thing, apple's doesn't even have to leave the comfort of their campus, can do it with a couple weeks notice (instead of planning in advance for months), and they can do it as many (or few) times a year as they want. no travel or setup time (except for any new hardware), so accommodations to arrange, etc.

i'm not saying it's a good or bad idea, i'm just saying it's possible they are considering it.

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: rok ]

bobthetomato · October 20, 2002 3:10PM

If Apple bails (or is banned) MWSF is toast. I kind of suspected that Apple didn't really want to do an East coast Macworld this year just because a lack of product and the year after next we'd have a happy reapproachment one the 970 is here and Apple can make some real progress and will actually have something worthwhile to show off. It sounds like it has turned into a testosterone issue and IDG may cut off their nose to spite their face.

matsu · October 20, 2002 8:25PM

Apple really (REALLY) should think twice about giving up the "Steve-note". It's his greatest strength and their best marketing angle. Two, and sometimes three or four, "Steve-notes" a year keep Apple prominent in the tech press and foremost in people's minds. Unlike advertising, keynotes don't look forced, they build up the community, people see them and they ease the FUD factor to an immeasurable degree because the Mac community looks vibrant, interested, receptive, and large. That counts for something, I think. Anecdotal evidence suggests the Expos are in a slow decline -- less third party participation, more empty space. Not good. I dunno what they can do about this, but I think it is extremely important for Apple to put on really good shows regularly through-out the year.

Maybe Apple can put on their own shows, or partner with a new promotional company and kill IDG, but they really must keep the AppleExpo/MacWorld concept alive and well. 'Buy-wait' cycles might bother them, but the draw-backs of no shows far outweigh this little issue, which is itself easily fixed by releasing product a couple of weeks before or after and with press events throughout the year.

formerlurker · October 20, 2002 8:57PM

The computer industry as a whole is cutting spending and expos are no exception. Adobe and others are already down to one Macworld a year. Apple is probably using this as an excuse to go to one Macworld a year, and IDG doesn't have much choice but to go along, once they've thrown their tantrums.

Apple needs only one of these a year, and to concentrate resources on making a bigger splash at mainstream expos like Comdex. The problem with too many Mac-only expos is that it only furthers the image of Macs as an island all to themselves, which is not the direction Apple is trying to take right now with Switch and Xserve. They are finally moving beyond preaching to the converted, and that is a Good Thing?.

Matsu - good points. However, Apple has shown (most recently with the iPod introduction) that Flint Center events can attract as much attention as a keynote, at a fraction of the cost and effort.

matsu · October 20, 2002 9:10PM

Yeah, three or four shows is probably a lot, but I wonder about their actual commitment to each show.

Steve is a big draw. If he just shows up to shows to give a presentation or a keynote, then Apple doesn't really have to spend so much -- a minimal booth is all they need. There may be stipulations though, and show organizers might not just hand over the stage unless they get a minimum monetary (or floor presence) commitment from Apple.

How does that work? I think a Steve-note is probably a great win for show organizers, but maybe Apple has to commit too much in order to get them.

How would you value the pre-post show buzz? My own seat-of-the-pants buzz meter pegs the exposure value of keynotes somewhere equal to spending millions in advertising.

Kicking ass at Comdex (provided they have something with some kick) would be very cool.

I hope they sort this out before it really makes everyone involved look bad...

moogs · October 20, 2002 10:04PM

JPF: it's a nice thought but you're overlooking the main reason Apple is considering a back-out: they want to save money.

The economy is shit, their sales (and margins) are dwindling, and they know their hardware sales are going to remain sluggish at least until next fall when the 970-based systems might be announced if we're lucky. They're losing money bigtime and rather than lay more people off, they're going to bag (in my estimation) one Mac World and one Expo every year - basically only do SF and Japan or SF and Paris.

The odds of them putting on their own shows, in multiple cities, is exceedingly low. That would cost them more, not less - especially if they did it in NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. Not gonna happen IMO.

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]

fran441 · October 20, 2002 10:24PM

Moogs, you have to remember that according to Apple, they would go to New York Macworlds. If this is really about costs and how Apple can't afford to go, the move to Boston would have significantly helped them.

We're going to have to wait another few days at least before we hopefully hear some good news.

amorph · October 20, 2002 10:32PM

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

If the reason is in fact financial, which makes sense, then IDG might have just blundered, big time: Steve might just call him on the MWSF boycott and see when the Flint Center's open, or start showing up at more general trade shows like Comdex (which I'm not entirely sure Apple would do) or Seybold. He knows that MacWorlds are a slowly dwindling enterprise, and he has brought Apple to a place where it can get decent mainstream media coverage from a press release.

It's not the nicest way to go about pulling out of an Expo or two, but it's vintage Steve. I have a feeling that IDG is screwed.

[edit: You have a point, Fran, but they might have wanted their one Expo a year to be in New York. Who knows, really? Maybe he demanded that the Boston convention center be designed to look like a sunflower, and they refused? Or maybe the ceiling on the keynote stage isn't high enough? This is Steve, after all.]

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]

alcimedes · October 21, 2002 12:21AM

hmm, i wonder if IDG somehow spilled the beans on an apple product.

usually Steve doesn't get so pig headed unless there's a leak. then he throws fits.

this whole thing is just freakin' weird if you ask me.

Apple might be banned from Macworld SF

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